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NaturalJudge
03-08-2006, 06:08 PM
A Nation Of Sheep:

“Why is there so much ignorance and apathy today concerning the truthful facts about the rest of the world? How can a nation or an individual function properly unless the truth is available and understood? How can effective foreign policy decisions be made and supported by a populace that is largely ignorant of the truth and accepting of false information masquerading as truth? Making informed decisions today requires unbiased information. Yet, this is difficult to obtain in the United States when the truth is largely unavailable, when the government is ignorant of the events occurring in other nations, when the media is so convinced that the American people don’t want the hard facts of foreign affairs that is only makes basic and routine efforts to report them, when a lack of knowledge of international matters has made the people of the United States a nation of sheep – uneasy but too apathetic and uninformed to know why – endorsing any solutions which appear to be cheap and easy and which come from a source that claims to be better informed then themselves. Today we are a nation of fair weathered citizens who serve their country only if they receive financial security and luxuries, of sloths that try to bribe neutral nations into cooperation. We are a nation of people who fail to question or reject the false information that is presented by the government, media, or others (including those in this forum). The defeat of America need not be accomplished by destructive weapons and violence. There are much easier and cheaper ways to accomplish this including psychological weapons, economic strangulation, political chicanery, and intellectual subversion. Such a finale will not occur to a well-informed and educated populace. But today we are adrift in a sea of misinformation, where ignorance is in control.”

The above is from : A Nation of Sheep by William Lederer, 1961.

What is the real truth concerning Iraq today? Are we to believe what the media portrays as truth? Are we to believe what the government portrays as truth? Are we to even believe others in this forum that claim to be presenting the truth and back up that truth with official sounding media references?

The media has a long history of intentionally or unintentionally publishing or showing false information. The reasons for this are numerous. Ill informed reporters who travel to Iraq and do not speak the local dialects, understand the culture, history, climate, or people attempt to present information as truth. Some reports are actually delivered as truth, however the media ‘process’ of editors and other assorted individuals such as business managers might resort to sensationalizing the information in order to gain ratings or sell newspapers. The media is after all a money making venture. In the rush to get the news scoop, misinformation and inaccuracies may be present in reports. In order to get to the truth, the informed individual must go after a variety of resources and listen to a variety of sources. Accepting information or quotes from official sounding sourced is insufficient. Just because a source is from a recognized newspaper or other media source does not make it so. As always, there are two sides to every coin and there may be elements of truth interspaced in each side. The American people are generally being fed a constant stream of negative news concerning Iraq. Is this truth? In some cases yes. However, is this the whole truth? Do the American people have easy access to what progress and good things that are being accomplished in Iraq? Are we being told how well our troops are performing? Are we being told what the small minority of insurgents and terrorists are doing to our troops? Are we to believe that everything that happens in Iraq is a catastrophe that is entirely America’s fault any more then we are to believe our nightly news that everything that happens in America is a tragedy? In short, are we being supplied with then entire story with both sides presented and with proper background and context?

There are many in this forum that present their OPINIONS as fact. They are so sure of their opinions that they use different tactics to force their opinions on others. They can accept no alternate viewpoints. No dissenting opinions. Anyone who dares to ask questions will be labeled with so called derogatory terms, bullied, insulted, abused, etc. In truth, everyone’s opinion should be listened to with respect. A factual, mature, and intelligent conversation that has any merit should present information calmly and rationally without resorting to name calling or other childish behaviors. Those with dissenting views should be allowed to express themselves without abusive or nasty comments and nonsense masquerading as the truthful side. In conclusion, intelligent and informed people will ask for a variety of sources, factual and opinionated, before making up their mind where they stand on the issues. They will understand the techniques that have been so successfully used in the past to present false information concerning foreign affairs and matters. They will stand alone if necessary and dare to ask questions and present unpopular and opposing sides if necessary. Above all, they will not be intimidated by insults or scare tactics that others may use. Those who generally present their opinions and viewpoints in a rational and calm manner and stick to presenting their facts as information are present within this forum. However, much information presented here is biased or openly false and it is up to the informed and motivated individual to be able to separate the two sides. Resorting to individual name calling, labeling one political party as liars, thugs, etc are expressions of Opinion that represent one person or persons view and may or may not contain limited aspects of truth. Many have given up posting or sharing their opinions within this forum for fear of abuse or insult. This is the tragedy and shame that does not add to this forum.

NaturalJudge
03-08-2006, 06:08 PM
A Nation Of Sheep:

“Why is there so much ignorance and apathy today concerning the truthful facts about the rest of the world? How can a nation or an individual function properly unless the truth is available and understood? How can effective foreign policy decisions be made and supported by a populace that is largely ignorant of the truth and accepting of false information masquerading as truth? Making informed decisions today requires unbiased information. Yet, this is difficult to obtain in the United States when the truth is largely unavailable, when the government is ignorant of the events occurring in other nations, when the media is so convinced that the American people don’t want the hard facts of foreign affairs that is only makes basic and routine efforts to report them, when a lack of knowledge of international matters has made the people of the United States a nation of sheep – uneasy but too apathetic and uninformed to know why – endorsing any solutions which appear to be cheap and easy and which come from a source that claims to be better informed then themselves. Today we are a nation of fair weathered citizens who serve their country only if they receive financial security and luxuries, of sloths that try to bribe neutral nations into cooperation. We are a nation of people who fail to question or reject the false information that is presented by the government, media, or others (including those in this forum). The defeat of America need not be accomplished by destructive weapons and violence. There are much easier and cheaper ways to accomplish this including psychological weapons, economic strangulation, political chicanery, and intellectual subversion. Such a finale will not occur to a well-informed and educated populace. But today we are adrift in a sea of misinformation, where ignorance is in control.”

The above is from : A Nation of Sheep by William Lederer, 1961.

What is the real truth concerning Iraq today? Are we to believe what the media portrays as truth? Are we to believe what the government portrays as truth? Are we to even believe others in this forum that claim to be presenting the truth and back up that truth with official sounding media references?

The media has a long history of intentionally or unintentionally publishing or showing false information. The reasons for this are numerous. Ill informed reporters who travel to Iraq and do not speak the local dialects, understand the culture, history, climate, or people attempt to present information as truth. Some reports are actually delivered as truth, however the media ‘process’ of editors and other assorted individuals such as business managers might resort to sensationalizing the information in order to gain ratings or sell newspapers. The media is after all a money making venture. In the rush to get the news scoop, misinformation and inaccuracies may be present in reports. In order to get to the truth, the informed individual must go after a variety of resources and listen to a variety of sources. Accepting information or quotes from official sounding sourced is insufficient. Just because a source is from a recognized newspaper or other media source does not make it so. As always, there are two sides to every coin and there may be elements of truth interspaced in each side. The American people are generally being fed a constant stream of negative news concerning Iraq. Is this truth? In some cases yes. However, is this the whole truth? Do the American people have easy access to what progress and good things that are being accomplished in Iraq? Are we being told how well our troops are performing? Are we being told what the small minority of insurgents and terrorists are doing to our troops? Are we to believe that everything that happens in Iraq is a catastrophe that is entirely America’s fault any more then we are to believe our nightly news that everything that happens in America is a tragedy? In short, are we being supplied with then entire story with both sides presented and with proper background and context?

There are many in this forum that present their OPINIONS as fact. They are so sure of their opinions that they use different tactics to force their opinions on others. They can accept no alternate viewpoints. No dissenting opinions. Anyone who dares to ask questions will be labeled with so called derogatory terms, bullied, insulted, abused, etc. In truth, everyone’s opinion should be listened to with respect. A factual, mature, and intelligent conversation that has any merit should present information calmly and rationally without resorting to name calling or other childish behaviors. Those with dissenting views should be allowed to express themselves without abusive or nasty comments and nonsense masquerading as the truthful side. In conclusion, intelligent and informed people will ask for a variety of sources, factual and opinionated, before making up their mind where they stand on the issues. They will understand the techniques that have been so successfully used in the past to present false information concerning foreign affairs and matters. They will stand alone if necessary and dare to ask questions and present unpopular and opposing sides if necessary. Above all, they will not be intimidated by insults or scare tactics that others may use. Those who generally present their opinions and viewpoints in a rational and calm manner and stick to presenting their facts as information are present within this forum. However, much information presented here is biased or openly false and it is up to the informed and motivated individual to be able to separate the two sides. Resorting to individual name calling, labeling one political party as liars, thugs, etc are expressions of Opinion that represent one person or persons view and may or may not contain limited aspects of truth. Many have given up posting or sharing their opinions within this forum for fear of abuse or insult. This is the tragedy and shame that does not add to this forum.

usmc1
03-09-2006, 05:51 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by NaturalJudge:
A Nation Of Sheep:

“Why is there so much ignorance and apathy today concerning the truthful facts about the rest of the world? How can a nation or an individual function properly unless the truth is available and understood? How can effective foreign policy decisions be made and supported by a populace that is largely ignorant of the truth and accepting of false information masquerading as truth? Making informed decisions today requires unbiased information. Yet, this is difficult to obtain in the United States when the truth is largely unavailable, when the government is ignorant of the events occurring in other nations, when the media is so convinced that the American people don’t want the hard facts of foreign affairs that is only makes basic and routine efforts to report them, when a lack of knowledge of international matters has made the people of the United States a nation of sheep – uneasy but too apathetic and uninformed to know why – endorsing any solutions which appear to be cheap and easy and which come from a source that claims to be better informed then themselves. Today we are a nation of fair weathered citizens who serve their country only if they receive financial security and luxuries, of sloths that try to bribe neutral nations into cooperation. We are a nation of people who fail to question or reject the false information that is presented by the government, media, or others (including those in this forum). The defeat of America need not be accomplished by destructive weapons and violence. There are much easier and cheaper ways to accomplish this including psychological weapons, economic strangulation, political chicanery, and intellectual subversion. Such a finale will not occur to a well-informed and educated populace. But today we are adrift in a sea of misinformation, where ignorance is in control.”

Tell your pals at the Moose pen that this sounds like a definition of life under the Bush administration and that I applaud their choice of reading.

Next they should read The Ugly American which was then about "Sarkhan", fictionalized Vietnam, but which could today easily serve as an overlay for the stupidity behind our invasion and occupation of Iraq.

shăybare
03-09-2006, 07:38 AM
http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/cool4.gif
I already like this thread very much. The truth is out there but too many of us rely on the media to tell us what is going on in the world. We will not hear the good of others told very often as that does not sell papers.

Hearing the negativity of other cultures all the time gives Americans a false overview of what is true.

NaturalJudge
03-09-2006, 08:47 AM
USMC1, I knew very well that you would not be able to resist replying to this topic. I have read “The Ugly American” by William Lederer, which concerns “The Honorable Louis Sears, American Ambassador to Sarkhan” along with many, many other sources of information. The difference between “A Nation of Sheep” and “The Ugly American” is that “A Nation of Sheep” draws from real foreign policy case studies concerning Laos, Thailand, China, Formosa, etc from the 1950’s whereas “The Ugly American” is a fictional depiction of Vietnam.

However, you conveniently neglect the second half of my posting which pertains to postings within this FORUM. What I have pointed out to the readers of this forum is that so much of what is posted here are personal OPINIONS with official sounding media links to support their opinions. As I have stated above, the links may contain varying amounts of truth and should not be accepted as the entire truth anymore then the OPINIONS expressed in this forum should be accepted as the entire truth.

The purpose of my topic is to make people aware of how they are being manipulated from all sides – government, media, and others within this forum. We are generally presented with one side in this forum that masquerades as the ‘entire truth’ when it is only one side (and a very negative side) to the story of American involvement in Iraq. If the readers are to believe that the very negative side that is presented here in this forum is the entire truth of involvement in Iraq, then they might as well believe that the end of the world is coming today and America is in danger of immediate collapse.

The purpose of my posting is also to make others in this forum aware that there are many sides to the story of Iraq, that they are being presented with only one side of the story here, and that they need to question whether this side represents the whole truth. I also implore the readers of this forum to seek as many sources of reliable information including historical references, background information, and opinions before making their own personal opinions and decisions.

Even though the Nation of Sheep was written in 1961, and reflects American foreign policy blunders in the 1950’s, many of the lessons still apply today to Iraq. This book also stresses why it is so important for American citizens to question ALL sources of information that they are presented with, whether those sources be from the government, media, and even this FORUM (including your postings as well as all other postings), to question those sources and the motivations behind the presenter of those sources, and to seek as many sources and venues of accurate information from all sides before making an informed decision or opinion.

Edited by request to accomodate those with vision problems.

shomymojo
03-09-2006, 09:31 AM
Baaaa.......all true Natural Judge...and the sheep still get sheared every April 15th by the IRS....Baaaaa......( get sheared...or go to Club Fed)....LOL

usmc1
03-09-2006, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NaturalJudge:
USMC1, I knew very well that you would not be able to resist replying to this topic. I have read “The Ugly American” by William Lederer, which concerns “The Honorable Louis Sears, American Ambassador to Sarkhan” along with many, many other sources of information. The difference between “A Nation of Sheep” and “The Ugly American” is that “A Nation of Sheep” draws from real foreign policy case studies concerning Laos, Thailand, China, Formosa, etc from the 1950’s whereas “The Ugly American” is a fictional depiction of Vietnam. However, you conveniently neglect the second half of my posting. The second half of my posting pertains to postings within this FORUM. What I have pointed out to the readers of this forum is that so much of what is posted here are personal OPINIONS with official sounding media links to support their opinions. As I have stated above, the links may contain varying amounts of truth and should not be accepted as the entire truth anymore then the OPINIONS expressed in this forum should be accepted as the entire truth. The purpose of my topic is to make people aware of how they are being manipulated from all sides – government, media, and others within this forum. We are generally presented with one side in this forum that masquerades as the ‘entire truth’ when it is only one side (and a very negative side) to the story of American involvement in Iraq. If the readers are to believe that the very negative side that is presented here in this forum is the entire truth of involvement in Iraq, then they might as well believe that the end of the world is coming today and America is in danger of immediate collapse. The purpose of my posting is to make others in this forum aware that there are many sides to the story of Iraq, that they are being presented with only one side of the story here, and that they need to question whether this side represents the whole truth. I also implore the readers of this forum to seek as many sources of reliable information including historical references, background information, and opinions before making their own personal opinions and decisions. Even though the Nation of Sheep was written in 1961, and reflects American foreign policy blunders in the 1950’s, many of the lessons still apply today to Iraq. This book also stresses why it is so important for American citizens to question ALL sources of information that they are presented with, whether those sources be from the government, media, and even this FORUM (including your postings as well as all other postings), to question those sources and the motivations behind the presenter of those sources, and to seek as many sources and venues of accurate information from all sides before making an informed decision or opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pleasant thought to know you were thinking of me when you wrote this. And you'd be...?

Perhaps you're being manipulated. I'm not.

Also, may I please suggest that you learn about paragraphs--it would make your writings more understandable to those of us whose eyes tend to cross at so much grey.

Baremore
03-09-2006, 12:45 PM
Natural Judge: I concur with usmc1's remarks about paragraphing. I gave up reading your post simply because I my "eyes crossed." Please leave lots of space and get to your quickly. Nobody likes lectures. Thanks!

usmc1
03-16-2006, 10:42 AM
Bimbo snubs Bush, GOP Dismayed!

Dang, looks like this here Simpson woman is smarter than she looks.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11849399/

Trailscout
03-16-2006, 12:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Baremore:
Natural Judge: I concur with usmc1's remarks about paragraphing. I gave up reading your post simply because I my "eyes crossed." Please leave lots of space and get to your quickly. Nobody likes lectures. Thanks! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your honor,
I think they'll ask you to post exclusively in Haiku next!

Seems like the ones who need the lectures are often the ones who dislike them!

Baron Lake
03-16-2006, 01:05 PM
I must agree with NaturalJudge's admonishment to seek and use "accurate" sources of information in our decision making. Not so sure, however, that we agree on which sources those might be and how to evaluate their truthfulness and reliability.

Well I'm off to Iraq now to check on things for myself. Hope I've brushed up on the right dilect.

b.l.

nacktman
03-16-2006, 06:38 PM
That's right those that need lectures tend to give them.

nacktman
03-16-2006, 06:39 PM
Baron, just use Farsi, it will do nicely in Iraq.