Full Nude verses Clothing optional

[EricNY]

[EricNY]

[FireProf]

This is a subject that continues to be discussed on many message boards, as you are well aware of.

A NUDIST club or resort should be just that.....NUDE (weather permitting). A clothing optional club or resort......you should have a choice. In this case, the kids should have been told, made aware of, or their parents reminded that it is a NUDE club and not clothing optional. In this case, at this NUDE club, your children and your friends children were made to feel uncomfortable with being nude. How are we suppose to nurture this lifestyle into our young and keep naturism from fading if we don't follow some simple rules regarding nude and clothing optional clubs and resorts.

There is no question, no arguement and we fully agree that both types of venues have their place and are both very much needed for our lifestyle. My wife benefitted from a clothing optional Inn in Palm Springs for her first visit and introduction into social nudity. With that, she now prefers NUDE resorts and clubs and not clothing optional, though we do visit both, we prefer NUDE.

What has happened is that some want to turn NUDE resorts into Clothing Optional by using the need to become accustom to being nude. My suggestion is.....visit a clothing optional resort or club until you become comfortable with total nudity.....then go and visit the NUDE club or resort.

In our travels and experience, there is no doubt there are more clothing optional clubs and resorts than there are NUDE. I say...politely....keep your clothing optional preference at a C/O club or resort and STAY NAKED at a nude club or resort. The nudity expected, required...should have been enforced and should continue to be enforced at NUDE clubs and resorts.http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[MikeJB]

I beleive that clothing optional resorts are not good because they hold the nasty risk of quickly becoming TEXTILE resorts because many people, if not all simply chose to stay clothed and then decide theyre not comfortable seeing nude people and thus the rules get changed. Having a nude resort is so people can go there and be NUDE, most people except newcomers and those with verifiable medical conditions *or when the weather is bad* should be expected to be NUDE at such places. If people want to go to a resort and wear clothes then they should go to a TEXTILE resort and not degrade the nude resorts by coming and insisting they adopt some lame clothing optional policy. Im sure this whole clothing optional thing works someplaces but I beleive overall its just asking for trouble and it will inevitably limit the amount of places us nudists have to freely go nude. I just say keep all the nudist resorts the way they are and expect people when they come there to be nude and no exceptions *except the above mentioned conditions*. You cant be leniant with these people otherwise theyll take advantage of it and trample all over you and then there go your nude freedoms.

[Baron Lake]

Mikejb, before you talk about trampling all over nude freedoms perhaps you should go back and read your post of 10:02 on Christian nudists and then offer some justification for your "right" to decide for others what is and is not proper behavior.
I still think you are actually 3 sophomores (still) who take turns posting. Come on fess up.
b.l.

[WacoTX]

I can see C/O beaches but clubs should be nude period. One small concession, a clothing grace period -- a few hours or A day.

[shomymojo]

We prefer nude...but Adults only

[Nude in the North]

I agree, if your going to have a Nudist Club, then everyone there should be nude.
I don't mind seeing clothed people on a "nude beach" (except for gawkers) as long as they are polite. But that's a little different than a resort or club.

I'd hate to spend good money to vacation at a nude resort and find the majority of the people running around with clothes on.
It might even make someone suspicious of their reasons for being there.

Steve

I agree with fireprof....having both availablewould be best

[David77]

Admittedly, I have the type of temperament that rebels at the thought of anyone being pressured to do anything they are not comfortable with, except for situations of paramount ethical/moral/illegal considerations.

Therefore I do not want to see any man pressure his wife to go to a nudist venue, and if she goes, I do not want to see her pressured to remove her clothes. Neither would I want to see children pressured to remove their clothing.
Trying to educate about naturism - YES; pressure, threats,- NO.
Allow the individual as much freedom (with responsibility toward others) as possible.

When I attended Turtle Lake Resort several times, a clothing optional resort, nearly everyone was nude. Of course, everyone was nude in the swimming pool, hot tub, mixed sex showers, beach and lake. No problem with this C/O resort,, as I see it.

I vote for C/O for all attendees, but I do not object to persons who exercise their freedom to go to resorts that require nudity at all times.

Make whatever rules you want for adults but children should NEVER be forced to be nude.

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
Make whatever rules you want for adults but children should NEVER be forced to be nude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In your opinion at what age should they be rquired to follow the rules set at the club?

[Nudeinbama]

The adults should go nude at the Nudist resort, but the kids not pressured to do so. They'll likely follow what they see the adults do, and if they don't, that should always be left to be their choice.. The adults should in no way mind what the kids are wearing, and know they'll come around to nudity,or not, but it should'nt have any bearing on the adults enjoyment of the resort.
Nudeinbama

[Nudony]

I was going to say: "The old clothing-optional v/s nude resort thing again?!" But this question actually has an interesting twist: it involves children.

When I go to a resort, whether it's clothing-optional or nude, I've made up my mind from the get-go that I'm going to get nude regardless of the nudity ratio or who is there. I may not like the fact that there may be too many clothed or semi-clothed people; but that won't stop me from going completely nude.

Kids, however, are more impressionable and subject to peer pressure. I've noticed it on many occasions: place a clothed child in the midst of nude children, and that child will probably be nude not very long thereafter. But place a nude child or two in the midst of clothed children, and the kid(s) will probably become self-conscious (they may remain nude, but not be quite as relax about it as they should be.)

My opinion: if you want your kids to be comfortable going completely nude, then you may want to stick to nude resorts. There is a demand and a need for clothing-optional resorts, so that can't and shouldn't be changed. Just find a nice nude resort.

[EricNY]

That is the point exactly...My kids are comfortable nude, however in this case they were not (for the most part) because the other kids were dressed.

Nobody is forcing anyone to be nude at a nude only resort..You ,your family,whoever.. choose to be nude by attending ...When in Rome...

[FireProf]

Herein lies the problem with this debate with Full Nude vs. Clothing Optional.

Already here we have disagreement because of assumption.

Question; Are there clothing optional venues available to those that want them, need them and prefer them?

Answer; Yes, far too many to list. As well as "nude beaches" which are actually C/O beaches, unless they are somehow connected with a NUDE resort.

Question; Do NUDISTS have the right to visit a NUDE resort and not be equally or out numbered by clothed visitors?

Answer; Yes, when visiting a NUDE resort, you should expect that nude people are what you will encounter, not clothed people.

My wife and I are nudists, not clothing optional nudists. Yes there are times we have to wear clothes, but that is not the issue. The issue is visiting a place where wearing clothes in not expected with other like minded individuals, couples, and families. A Nude club/resort.

Clothing Optional venues have their place and are very much needed for many reasons but why is it that some still think that a nude resort should be clothing optional. If you prefer, need or want the choice to be clothing optional............visit a C/O resort or club not a NUDE one.

As far as children go, if they are brought up in a nudist environment at home and are comfortable with that but have yet to become comfortable with nudity around other children and adults, a clothing optional club or resort should be the place to take them for vacation, day visits, or to become more comfortable before taking them to a NUDE resort.

Save visiting a NUDE resort/club for when you, your spouse/significant other or children have become comfortable and willing to be nude all the time. It is unfair for those who prefer, need or want C/O to infringe their right on the rights of those preferring, needing and wanting NUDE only. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

btw; NO one here is suggesting changing any rules, policies, or nude to C/O or C/O to NUDE. That is furthest from the truth. Both venues are needed, no question.

We all have a choice on which one to visit. If your needs are such that you may want or need to wear clothing at some time, visit a clothing optional venue...........not a NUDE one.

[NakedGary]

Laguna Del Sol the largest nudist resort in California has been "Clothing Optional" since the beginning, and recently changed to a “Clothes Free" resort, with the explanation: [Page one of their web site]: Laguna Del Sol "Clothes Free Resort" (http://www.lagunadelsol.com)

"This beautiful, <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">clothes-free resort</span> offers a great escape from the stresses of everyday life.
Laguna Del Sol is located just 20 miles from Sacramento, and, yet seems a world away."

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">"This is a clothes-free resort, and the philosophy is "unclothed when possible, clothed when practical."</span>

My question is: What's the difference in "Clothing optional" and "Clothes Free" if they say "Weather permitting" or "When practical"

The teenagers, some visitors and guests are always dressed on site except if they want to use the pools, spas, hot tubs, or conversational pools, and/or indoor/outdoor polls or surrounding deck and sunning areas.

.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ercNY:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
Make whatever rules you want for adults but children should NEVER be forced to be nude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In your opinion at what age should they be rquired to follow the rules set at the club? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rules of a club should always be followed. Is there an age limit on that? Are there clubs that force minors to be nude?

[NakedGary]

Yes there are rules at most landed clubs that all must be completely nude in the indoor and outdoor pool areas, spa's, hot tubs, and conversational pools, decks, and sunning areas, including young children and younger people. [No Exceptions]

[nudenwv]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ercNY:
Hi all,

Just wanted some thoughts and feeling on this subject.

As some of you may have read, my family and I went to Solair with some friends and their two children. Solair is a clothing optional camp, although nudity is expected as long as weather cooperates, and of course nudity is law on the beach and in the pool/hottub.

Now here lies the issue. My kids are very comfortable at home nude, as are the children of the friends we went with. My kids could not wait to go so they could have the freedom to run around nude all day.

When we got there 99% of all the kids were dressed (except when swimming and proceeded to get dressed imediatly when finished and dry)

Seeing as my kids were hanging out with all these other kids that had their clothes on, I noticed a change in my own kids and my freinds two girls. It seemed that they started to want to be covered even though they would normally want to be nude.

I think if the place was a full nude campground and nudity was the rule as opposed to "nudity expected" they would NOT have felt the peer pressure to put clothes on. Now talking to some of the parents that are members they all say that their kids are nude at home too, yet they come to a nudist camp and wear clothes. Go figure.

Does any one else have experience with this problem? What are your thoughts? Should it be allowed to continue? Should they change the rules? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> i chose nude adults c/o kids. living in a mixed family (me-nude daughter and wife-non nude) it makes a difference when the rule is c/o or total nude.i see the frustration on my wifes face when she can not join me at the pool. children are very impressionable and should be able to experience this at their own leisure.i do agree with certain areas nude only.

[Buff Man in MI]

If it is clothing optional, then to me that means that folks have the freedom to choose what fits them at the time. I see no conflict with requiring nudity (of all users) for pool/hot tub use or for certain activities, like volleyball tournaments, or whatever. I am the type that does not care what anyone else is or is not wearing, as long as I can choose to be nude.

[need2Bnude]

I agree with ercNY, kids should have the option because still in a stage of innocence they may not fully understand, and to be forced into something they are uncomfortable with (especially nudity) may hurt them more than help. I know I would encourage my kids. And at a nude beach I would definitely always be nude, forget this optional stuff, it boils down to, are you a nudist or not?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NakedGary:
Yes there are rules at most landed clubs that all must be completely nude in the indoor and outdoor pool areas, spa's, hot tubs, and conversational pools, decks, and sunning areas, including young children and younger people. [No Exceptions] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Specifically name some clubs please. I don't think it's "most landed clubs" by any means. None of the clubs in this area demand nudity from the children except maybe in the pool.

[FireProf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NakedGary:
Laguna Del Sol the largest nudist resort in California has been "Clothing Optional" since the beginning, and recently changed to a “Clothes Free" resort, with the explanation: [Page one of their web site]: Laguna Del Sol "Clothes Free Resort" (http://www.lagunadelsol.com)

"This beautiful, <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">clothes-free resort</span> offers a great escape from the stresses of everyday life.
Laguna Del Sol is located just 20 miles from Sacramento, and, yet seems a world away."

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">"This is a clothes-free resort, and the philosophy is "unclothed when possible, clothed when practical."</span>

My question is: What's the difference in "Clothing optional" and "Clothes Free" if they say "Weather permitting" or "When practical"

The teenagers, some visitors and guests are always dressed on site except if they want to use the pools, spas, hot tubs, or conversational pools, and/or indoor/outdoor polls or surrounding deck and sunning areas.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The way I see this is.....If it's snowing, raining, cold, wind blowing, etc and it's uncomfortable weatherwise to to naked, you can put something on to protect you from the elements. This is "weather permitting, when practical."

What shouldn't be the norm is when the weather is great and nudity becomes a comfort issue in regards to not feeling comfortable being naked or being seen naked and wanting to cover, then you should be visiting a clothing optional club/resort not a nude one.

We gotta stop playing word games. "Nude when possible and clothed when practical" isn't a foreign language. It's plain and simple english that we all know what it means but some want to leave that loop hole in it so we can tweek it and be flexible with and not hurt anyone's feelings with it. This is as nice a way to put it frankly, "this is a NUDE club/resort, if you're visiting here you are expected to be naked. You will encounter naked individuals, couples, families at all times. if you don't want to be naked or encounter naked people all the time, leave and visit a clothing optional resort/club." http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Laguna Del Sol should have simply stated it is a NUDE resort, they chose "Clothes Free", to me and to others it should still mean the same thing. If you come to visit or stay, you can expect to see nude people and will be expected to be nude. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Cyndiann,

I agree completely with your statement. Children should never be forced to be nude. Their parents should then take them to a clothing optional club/resort and not to a NUDE resort, don't you agree? http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Even the nude resorts I know of don't force nudity on the children.

[Mosquito_Bait]

Children should never be coerced. Women have their special time of the month to deal with. Adult men do not have any excuse and should be required to disrobe immediately upon entering the gate, weather permitting.

When we visit nudist parks, my wife usually requires some time to get comfortable before disrobing. This generally makes me uneasy because we often pass others who are undressed before undressing ourselves. I feel as though I'm breaking some unwritten nudist code of honor. I'd rather just get undressed right away. I'd welcome rules that required this of adult men.

[NakedGary]

The C/O or Clothes free/Nude facilities I know or frequent do force children to be nude in the wet areas with few exceptions for anyone. If babies are not potty trained then they must have on retaining or sealed special diapers or not go in the water.

I refrain from submerging, my head, diving, or swimming under water in the heated outdoor pool the children frequent and play in, as everyone knows that small children will urinate and sometimes partially or poop in the water will they feel like it or the urge comes on instead of asking to be escorted by a parent to the bathroom or getting out or going to the bathroom which are sometimes not located within the pool fenced area. Where this is noticed or violated pool chemicals must be increased, and or drained, and this can be very costly in time, out of service, and non useable facilities for paying daily or members, not to mention the health hazards. I have seen soiled diapers taken off of babies in the pool and set aside on the pools edge, and then left there, when there are garbage cans within site or 6 ft away! Ill just use the other pools that are mostly use by adults or older children.

[jon71]

Additionally some diapers will come apart and wreak havok on the filters of the pool.

[ScubaRay]

I choose C.O. because it should be a person choice to wear something or nothing. Just as you would have to wear jeans or dress pants out in the "real" world. I do agree that a club or resort may request you to not to wear a swimsuit in a pool or a sauna but if a person goes to a resort or a function with nude activities they will be in company with nude people. If they want to join in with the group (nudist) that they may be standing by a nude person or family.
Ray

[NakedGary]

[Quote by "cyndiannaked]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Specifically name some clubs please. I don't think it's "most landed clubs" by any means. None of the clubs in this area demand nudity from the children except maybe in the pool. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cyndiannaked

Laguna Del Sol, Glen Eden, and DeAnza require nudity in the pool, spa, conversational pools, and gated areas around and the decks or sunning and lounge chair areas.

Laguna Del Sol has signs on the gates when entering these areas saying this is a nude or clothes free area, and cell phones are not to be used in the gated, changing or wet areas.

Teenagers might come in to ask a nude parent something but are expected to depart if not nude or using the pools in surrounding gated areas. Anyone seen entering a pool, spa, or conversational pool area wearing anything [except for medical reasons with approval] is asked to get out of the water, and reminded its against the rules.

I'll try and get a picture of one of the many signs posting such next time there.....

[steve-o]

I vote for all nudity all the time. call me self-conscience but I guess I feel better when we're all equal in terms of clothing. Isn't that (one of the biggest) points?

Yes, it's nice that one has the freedom to choose in a c/o venue, and since it's the one place where you can make such a choice I say choose no clothes whenever possible.

--s

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NakedGary:
[Quote by "cyndiannaked]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Specifically name some clubs please. I don't think it's "most landed clubs" by any means. None of the clubs in this area demand nudity from the children except maybe in the pool. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cyndiannaked

Laguna Del Sol, Glen Eden, and DeAnza require nudity in the pool, spa, conversational pools, and gated areas around and the decks or sunning and lounge chair areas.

Laguna Del Sol has signs on the gates when entering these areas saying this is a nude or clothes free area, and cell phones are not to be used in the gated, changing or wet areas.

Teenagers might come in to ask a nude parent something but are expected to depart if not nude or using the pools in surrounding gated areas. Anyone seen entering a pool, spa, or conversational pool area wearing anything [except for medical reasons with approval] is asked to get out of the water, and reminded its against the rules.

I'll try and get a picture of one of the many signs posting such next time there..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are only talking about a few areas, like in a pool. I want to know which clubs insist on the children being nude while there on club grounds, not just in a small area of a club.

[Bob S.]

erc, do you know why the children are staying clothed?

The way to get kids to get naked and stay that way is to give them reasons to do so.

Were there any special activities for the kids to do there? Does Solair have anything for the kids to do? That is going to affect how they act.

Are the clothed children mainly live-ins or weekend visitors?

It looks like the parnets need to either go to management or, even better, get together with each other and decide how best to handle this situation. Organize activities, give them reasons to be naked. Don't just simply let them go off and do their own thing.

It will take time, but who knows, in no time, you may have all the kids excitedly taking their clothes off each and every time they are there.

Good luck.

Bob S.

[FireProf]

Bob S.,

Again some very interesting observations. Maybe what some of these nude clubs and resorts need to do for weekend visitors is have some activities, educational/but fun type talks that educate these youngsters on nudism. Coordinate activities with nudity so they are comfortable with being nude all the time.

Seems that many of the clubs or resorts we've been to cater more to the parents and the kids are left to entertain themselves. We need to nurture them into nudism. I wish I had the time, energy and patience. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[P.J.]

There is no simple answer which applies to all.

There are plenty of knee-jerk responses with no solutions.

Children are so impressionable as well as vulnerable. Parents absolutely need to provide answers as well as protection.

Once, while nude in a swimming pool, the grandchild of some friends of mine was also in the pool. I felt that he was too close for comfort. To be nice, I spoke with him, but kept distant because he did not seem to know that nude etiquette prohibits unwelcome touching.

Speaking for myself, I don't feel comfortable being nude with children. To avoid any misunderstandings, I prefer to maintain a safe distance from children in a nude setting.

I tend to agree with shomymojo and prefer nude...but Adults only.

[FireProf]

There doesn't need to be answers or solutions to this issue.

It's quite simple..............no knee jerking...

Clothing Optional Club/resort; the freedom to wear or not wear clothes to suit your comfort level.

Nude Club'Resort; the rule is nudity is expected. Clothing permissible under certain weather, medical conditions.

There are two types of venues available to use as nudist/clothing optionalists. Chose the one that is right for you, don't try and change one to another. Simple. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob S.:
erc, do you know why the children are staying clothed? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes Bob, It seems that there are a couple of teens there with a strong inluence on the rest. They will get nude to swim, because it is required and then get dressed right after. The peer pressure is to remain clothed from these teens, even though most of them are nude at home.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The way to get kids to get naked and stay that way is to give them reasons to do so.
Were there any special activities for the kids to do there? Does Solair have anything for the kids to do? That is going to affect how they act. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Solair actually has an amazing amout of activities for the kids, too many to list. I was very very impressed with that


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Are the clothed children mainly live-ins or weekend visitors? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The majority (probably better than 75% were the children of regulars or full members with permanent sites or houses on the property and a handfull of weekenders. All total 50 or so maybe more kids and teens. It seems that only the teens were clothed thru the day with a couple of exceptions and of course while in the pool or lake.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It looks like the parnets need to either go to management or, even better, get together with each other and decide how best to handle this situation. Organize activities, give them reasons to be naked. Don't just simply let them go off and do their own thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They have many choices and the activities are well managed and organized. Loads of fun for all ages.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It will take time, but who knows, in no time, you may have all the kids excitedly taking their clothes off each and every time they are there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it would seem that the reason why the kids were clothed was because of a couple of "ring leaders" that have a great deal of influence on the others. It seems that if a couple are clothed they all are, and if a few are nude they all are. The only real reason it bothered me was that I know of a couple of those kids preferred to be nude, but spent most of the time covered up because they felt uncomfortable with the clothed kids.

[Walt Iliff]

Hi Folks,

White Tail Park has a mandatory nudity policy for all members and visitors as follows:

ABOUT OUR NUDITY POLICIES
issued July 18, 2005

"So that all may enjoy the clothes free experience of White Tail Park in a safe, supportive and pleasant environment, when away from lodging unit or camp site, both adults and children are to be nude. To us, nude means the absence of clothing, towels and other similar body coverings other than head and footwear. Of course, when there is a legitimate common sense reason to do so, such as cool weather, sunburn, health or room temperature, clothing and other body coverings may be worn. In keeping with the spirit of nudity being the norm, any such covering up is expected to be limited to when, where and what needed. Cool weather may necessitate wearing of clothing outdoors, but not in a heated building. Sunburned shoulders may require a reasonable length tee shirt, perhaps to the waist, but certainty not extending to knees or ankles. Going about the property wearing a towel, except perhaps for the first few moments out of the water, is always inappropriate and not within this spirit of being nude. Management reserves the right to determine what is appropriate in a given situation. The swimming pools are always used completely nude, without exception other than plastic pants over a cloth diaper for children not yet toilet trained. The hot tub is also used completely nude. Complete nudity only inside the pool fences, except for women wearing shorts during their monthly cycle. At dances, you may either wear a normal tee shirt or be nude. The wearing of bathing suits, lingerie, and underwear as outerwear is not permitted anywhere on the grounds. Your cooperation in observance of these policies by you and your family members is very much appreciated. Those in violation will not be permitted to remain in the recreational areas of the park. Please note that repeated infractions by any member, guest or their family members can result in a loss of your privilege to visit White Tail Park or revocation of membership. We thank you and yours for not "clothing" while at White Tail Park. Please do have a happy nude day!"

While this may not be everyone's cup of tea, it works for us, and the kids know it's the policy and accept it. Many of them have told me that they appreciate it because they prefer to be nude and don't have to deal with adverse peer pressure. It's as natural as having to wear clothing OUTSIDE the park. It may not be for everyone but Bob Roche sent a letter to all the members a few years ago asking if we wanted to maintain our policy of mandatory nudity or be clothing optional....over 95% of the members voted to have the mandatory nudity policy remain in effect BUT there were several complaints that management did not do enough to ENFORCE the policy. There are very few problems and our membership, including many young families, is growing nicely.

Walt Iliff

[justnude]

It would seem to me that if you go to a nudist club one would expect to be nude, at least most of the time. To have it nude for adults and c/o for kids sends the message that there is something "wrong" with being naked, or that only the "developed, adult body," is acceptable. It is different at a c/o beach where one shou;d be free to be nude or not. People going there should expect to see both nude and clothed people. The ratio will depend on the day!

[EricNY]

OK....now we are getting somewhere....

Thanks for your input Walt and justnude. There are a few that would like to see this policy changed just like it was at Whitetail. I know the children of the freinds I was there with attended the Nude Youth Camp there, this past summer. They were more comfortable at WTP because there was no peer pressure to remain dressed.

You see the one thing that has been overlooked in this conversation is that manyof these kids prefer to be nude, but choose not to because the others aren't. Basically it takes one to start a chain reaction to the rest.

I was talking to Billie Carlson about it there and she says this problem has been fairly recent and is progressivly getting worse.Some members there call it a poison

I also agree with justnude and think it sends mixed messages.I just thought it was odd for my older daughter and son who LOVE to be nude, and have been in both home and social environments to suddenly feel the need to cover up.

Thanks everyone for your input...I am finding this discussion very interesting.

[Walt Iliff]

Thanks ErcNY,

Say hi to your friends for me....by the way, their oldest daughter is now the AANR East youth Vice President, and were both terrific at the youth camp this summer.

Walt

[EricNY]

Yes this is true...and she is quite a leader for teens all around. They happen to live very close to us and we will be getting together often.

We plan on visiting WTP and also Quebec next summer. I hear lots of good things about you as well, your name came up a couple times in conversation. (don't worry all good things)Hopefully you will be there when we are, would love to meet you.

[missouriboy]

"Well it would seem that the reason why the kids were clothed was because of a couple of "ring leaders" that have a great deal of influence on the others. It seems that if a couple are clothed they all are, and if a few are nude they all are."

ercNY, it seems to me that the key to a solution is in your sentences, above. Since the "leaders" are known, it should be a simple matter for their parents to counsel them as to the rules. If concerned parents, such as yourself, would approach the parents with a polite request, the situation might be resolved very quickly and amicably.

Once I was waiting for the pool table while three young teenagers were playing, two boys and one girl. One of the boys was fully clothed; the other two were completely nude. The boy's father happened by, called him aside to say something privately, then continued on outside. Well, that boy disrobed and laid his clothes on a chair before returning to the pool table... all in the space of 60 seconds or so.

[nakednudists]

I'll vote for Nude Only. It you want to give kids a choice whether or not they can stay clothed or not, take them to a clothing optional club. Rules are rules.

[EricNY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by missouriboy:
ercNY, it seems to me that the key to a solution is in your sentences, above. Since the "leaders" are known, it should be a simple matter for their parents to counsel them as to the rules. If concerned parents, such as yourself, would approach the parents with a polite request, the situation might be resolved very quickly and amicably.
QUOTE]

True very True.....But it is a C/O park although nudity is expected. It seems that no one really pushes the issue

A few members there, would love to see the place go full nude instead of C/O. Then again some do not, because they fear the teens wont go, and if the teens don't go the parents won't go. They fear that membership will decline. Yet I hear how WTP made the change and embraced the change, and we all know their membership is not declining. I wonder if they had some prospective families not apply for membership because of the reverse peer pressure on their kids?

I would like to hear how it went when WTP made the change. I wonder if some people just think it can be done. I personally think it would be better in the long run.

(NOTE I think Solair is one of the best places in the Northeast...I do not want anyone to think I am being negative or critical of Solair.)

[ken0254]

I can understand arguments from both sides of the fence. As a parent of one of those that many times wore a towel around his waist at WTP, it was easier for me to tell him to take the towel off. I am also of the opinion that C/O also invites gawkers. On the flip side, it would be nice if common sense exceptions were made because I have seen some people wear t-shirts because they were already sunburned. In a few cases I have seen people told they couldn't wear them around the pool area. If that is the only reason they were wearing a t-shirt, them let it go.

ken

[Walt Iliff]

[quote]I hear how WTP made the change and embraced the change, and we all know their membership is not declining. I wonder if they had some prospective families not apply for membership because of the reverse peer pressure on their kids? "

White Tail Park has never been clothing optional, and as I said in a previous post, other than an occasional laxity in management's enforcement of the rules, there have been few if any problems associated with our policy of mandatory nudity, weather and health permitting.

Walt

[EricNY]

my mistake http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

However the fact remains the same...from my understanding the kids and teens are much more comfortable in the all nude environment without the pressures.

[Walt Iliff]

Well, there is in fact a clothing required zone, it's called outside the park. I have listened to and seen all the arguments for clothing optional places, and can respect the rights of others to do what suits them (no pun intended), but I really don't understand why, considering that there are, figuratively, an infinite number of places where clothing can be worn (or is clothing mandatory), an individual would CHOOSE to be at a place where it's ok to be nude and CHOOSE to be dressed. I guess that's one of the reasons I like White Tail Park so much. But, that's why God created chocolate and vanilla. I am just happy not to have to spend my time at a clothing optional place.

Walt

[krcNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
Even the nude resorts I know of don't force nudity on the children. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We do not want to force nudity on our children, we would not have brought them if they had issues with nudity...they were actually looking forward to going because they need not to wear a suit. They were even explaining it to our little one that this place will be so cool. It was a big surprise to us to see them clothed so much during our stay at the resort.

Yes there are the certain areas for nude only,but the kids only came in swam, got dressed and left again. We expected that our kids would jump at the chance to be nude all weekend. They definately want to go back.

I understand where you are coming from and wanted to explain a little more about our experience.

[R.M.GREENMAN2]

I had to vote C/O because people should be as they are comfortable and I should not press my lifestyle on others!

[MJ_KC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R.M.GREENMAN2:
I had to vote C/O because people should be as they are comfortable and I should not press my lifestyle on others! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At the park in question, it would appear that pressure was being applied by a few teens to get the other teens and children to stay clothed.

Management should put a stop to this kind of behavior immediately because it would make the place an uncomfortable place for some of the children who do want to be nude.

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MJ_KC:
At the park in question, it would appear that pressure was being applied by a few teens to get the other teens and children to stay clothed.

Management should put a stop to this kind of behavior immediately because it would make the place an uncomfortable place for some of the children who do want to be nude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My thoughts exactly....but how?

[Nathan B]

At the resort where I go I have seen similar behavior on the part of kids. And at the same time when the kids are around their parents they were usually nude.

As an example one friend's two boys that are 15 and 17 were nude all the time around mom and dad until they went to play basketball and they put on clothes.

A couple of nude male adults were asked to join in the game to fill out the teams and pretty soon all the shorts were on the bench.

I simply chalk it up to kids growing up and adjusting.

[SandyHookNudist]

It seems to me that as the popularity of nude recreation increases and more people visit nude beaches, there's a higher percentage of people who keep their clothes on. Some people argue that this permissiveness gives newcomers a chance to acclimate or experiment when visiting a nude environment and gradually acclimate themselves to nudism/naturism. Many of the proponents of this option claim that their friends or partners who might normally refuse to even attend a nude beach/resort/activity would not go if they knew they'd have to be nude. In recent conversations with my friends at the beach that I go to, I get the sense that many of the "reluctant first time nudists" would prefer the "safety" of knowing that everyone in attendance were completely nude. There's a kind of equality in an all-nude environment. Some newcomers feel intimidated or self-conscious about their nudity when there are clothed people in attendence. Most of the people that have communicated this to me are women. They are relatively comfortable when eveyone is nude, but not so comfortable when someone clothed shows up. Children are taught by their parents; in the same way that I expect my daughter to do her homework, use good manners, exercise, and eat well I expect her to be nude in nude environments. That's what I taught her and she knows the ground rules. Those parents that do not teach their children are abdicating their parental responsibilities. I know that as a newcomer, I felt uncomfortable and intimidated by the clothed and continued to feel that way for many years. I have overcome those feelings now, but feel much more comfortable when everyone is completely nude. I sense tension from some who are nude and find themselves in the company of others who choose to clothe themselves.

[MJ_KC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ercNY:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MJ_KC:
At the park in question, it would appear that pressure was being applied by a few teens to get the other teens and children to stay clothed.

Management should put a stop to this kind of behavior immediately because it would make the place an uncomfortable place for some of the children who do want to be nude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My thoughts exactly....but how? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Take them and their parents aside and explain that this type of behavior is not tolerated.

Applying pressure to get a kid to be either clothed or unclothed should not be permitted if they want a place that kids want to return to.

[NudeAl]

Both have their place.

I have been to nude only type of resorts and I find they are just a bit to bossy for me and my family. I do agree with the rule about being nude in the pools and hot tubs etc. I even think this is an excellent way to coax those shy first timers out of thier clothes, almost everyone can relate to wanting to be nude in water. I find that all this worry over nude or clothing optional really is over kill. I go to a clothing optional club and a clothing optional beach all the time. The vast majority of the users are nude. There are a few who remain dressed, I would say less than 10 percent, and ther are a percentage of ladies who wear a thong or some other type of swim suit bottom but again the percentage is low.

I'm sure those who prefer to go to nude only places can be accomodated but I would still prefer to have the option for my family. I guess another reason is I don't like being told I have to do something. I know it makes a big diffence to my wife and in the past it has made a difference to my teenage kids, just being able to have a choice. Eventually they all want to go swimming and they know the rule about being nude in the pool so it works out anyway.

Just my two cents.

[Michjoe]

I don't know why but it seems that recently I have seen more non nude people at the beaches I've been to. Hopefully it is not a trend.

[Bob S.]

"Well it would seem that the reason why the kids were clothed was because of a couple of "ring leaders" that have a great deal of influence on the others."

erc, as moboy mentioned, the solution to the situation lies with those "ring leaders." In order for this to change, the parents of the ring leaders need to understand why their children are staying dressed.

"They have many choices and the activities are well managed and organized."

That is great, but it doesn't explain why they are clothed. Are they naked during these activities?

Solutions to the situation seem not to lie with management but with the parents. In this case, maybe a parental meeting is in order about how to keep the clothes to a minimum. They know their children best and they know best why their children keep clothes on.

This solution to this situation will not be meted out here, but within Solair itself with the parents and teens. As I mentioned, they need to have a reason not to be in their clothes. They apparently have no problem being naked as they swim with no problems.

Another possible quetion would be how responsible do they feel for Solair? Do they just live there or do they have a feeling of belonging?

The reasons for staying clothed are too numerous.

"I just thought it was odd for my older daughter and son who LOVE to be nude, and have been in both home and social environments to suddenly feel the need to cover up."

They didn't feel the need to cover up, they felt the need to fit in.

Bob S.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Walt Iliff:
clothing-optional beaches should have separate areas/zones for nudists and textiles

Walt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then it wouldn't be clothing optional.

[Walt Iliff]

Actually, the quote you attributed to me was from a previous poster who deleted their original post, which is why my second sentence reads the way it does. What's more amazing though is that for the first time, we actually agree on something (I'm watching the skies for signs of lightning....is there an earthquake coming???)


Walt

[Nudony]

As I'm reading through the thread, I'm getting more and more confused as to what the point of the question is. My understanding so far is that Solair is clothing-optional, that most people go nude; but that a couple of kids who are remaining dressed are "throwing off" other kids' comfort with nudity.
Isn't that kind of like going to a smoker's lounge, where there happens to be only a couple of people smoking, and complaining about the smoke? It doesn't matter how many people are in there smoking...it's a smoker's lounge! I'm not trying to be cynical, I just don't understand why offense is taken to these kids' textilism, considering it's ok'd by club regulations.
But if you really want to do something about the textilism at Solair, I would recommend getting together with other members and discussing the issue; maybe even putting together a petition to enlarge the scope of when and where nudity is mandatory instead of optional.
As far as nudity and children, that is a big topic in its own right. Forcing kids to be nude is often ultimately counterproductive. IMHO, the best way to promote nudity amog children is to organize activities which promote nudity. Drawing from my own experiences, I remember my club organizing a game of wet Nerf dodgeball. There were a couple of girls in T-shirts; very quickly their shirt were completely soaked, and they were having so much fun that the T-shirts came off in no time. All that is needed is a little imagination and organization.

[NudeDen]

I've noticed that at Serendipity(a resort i frequent) most if not all the kids that live at the resort are clothed all the time and rarely get in the pool and even if they do as soon as they are done swimming they are dressed again. I just wish there was some activities that would promote staying nude all the time. Clothes-free wouldn't be so bad of they have activities for kids so they don't feel like they've been dragged there and forced to be nude. If they were raised nudist and they go nude around the house then if they like being at the resort and are comfortable and don't feel forced to do anything they might stay nude.

[FireProf]

Nudony,

I agree with what you are saying and would only add that this thread on many message boards heads in this particular direction because many mistake the discussion as one way or the other (nude vs Clothing optional)

That is further from the truth then you can get. There is a definate need for both types of venues. We visit both, we like both, prefer one to the other but still feel strongly that both clothing optional and nude are needed for all degrees of nudists.

Solair should enforce their policies of nude expect/mandatory....whatever word they use to ensure NUDE use and limit clothing in their resort. If the parents of those kids that ercNY was talking about refused to undress or were uncomfortable undressing, Solair should have talked with the parents and suggested that this family visit a nearby clothing optional club or resort until their children were more comfortable with being nude.

It is also the club's/resort's responsibility to educate both parents and children of the rules and policies of the club and enforce those rules. They, the club managment, shouldn't wait until mass numbers of other visitors, members or residents complain until something is said.

Clothing optional is a great choice. It helped my wife with her transition into nudism and becoming a nudist. Clothing Optional clubs and resorts will always have a place in nudism. There will always be the need to provide this venue to new people wanting to experience nudism for the first time away from home.

Nude expected/mandatory also has it's place. Nudist that are very comfortable with being nude with, around, socializing, etc. with others, should also have the type of venue where they feel comfortable in this environment without a large percentage of others around them clothed.

Both places serve their respective nudists regardless of comfort level, but we shouldn't be arguing or debating which is better or which one Nudism should have or not have. Nudism encompasses and embraces both. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I would only add that ercNY and krcNY talk with other visitors, members and the management about the nude policies and ascertain if the club desires to continue as a nude resort or change to clothing optional. If nude is the way Solair wants to remain, then they, management, needs to begin enforcing the rules and policies. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Clothing optional is a great choice. It helped my wife with her transition into nudism and becoming a nudist. Clothing Optional clubs and resorts will always have a place in nudism. There will always be the need to provide this venue to new people wanting to experience nudism for the first time away from home.

Nude expected/mandatory also has it's place. Nudist that are very comfortable with being nude with, around, socializing, etc. with others, should also have the type of venue where they feel comfortable in this environment without a large percentage of others around them clothed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Don't you think it would be harder for a first timer to actually get nude when most the people around you are clothed? I think it's easier at a nudist venue than C/O.

And there really aren't two distinct types of resorts for the most part, it's a blend from one to the other. Most nude only clubs don't force newbies to strip right away, they are given time to adjust. I think that adjustment time would be shorter if most of the people around them are nude.

And even nude mandatory clubs usually don't include the kids in that rule.

[FireProf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Clothing optional is a great choice. It helped my wife with her transition into nudism and becoming a nudist. Clothing Optional clubs and resorts will always have a place in nudism. There will always be the need to provide this venue to new people wanting to experience nudism for the first time away from home.

Nude expected/mandatory also has it's place. Nudist that are very comfortable with being nude with, around, socializing, etc. with others, should also have the type of venue where they feel comfortable in this environment without a large percentage of others around them clothed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Don't you think it would be harder for a first timer to actually get nude when most the people around you are clothed? I think it's easier at a nudist venue than C/O.

I'm approaching this from a position of one who's only gotten into social nudism in the past 5 years. Most C/O places we've visited, there were more nude people than clothed. The nice part about the C/O place, at the time, for my wife was that she was able to cover with a shirt if she'd become uncomfortable for any reason or had enough sun. The freedom of choice to wear something was nice until she was comfortable enough to be nude all the time and instead of covering because of too much sun, she now remains nude and seeks shade instead. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And there really aren't two distinct types of resorts for the most part, it's a blend from one to the other. Most nude only clubs don't force newbies to strip right away, they are given time to adjust. I think that adjustment time would be shorter if most of the people around them are nude.

I think this is where there is this disagreement in the discussion. A NUDE only club or resort gives first time visitors time t adjust. There doesn't seem to be a consistency in the rules enforcing the time allowed to adjust, nude mandatory in the pool, spa areas, nude mandatory in all areas except the dining area which is C/O. It appears that nude only clubs and resorts have become C/O because of their lack of enforcing their rules.

Example: We visited Desert Shadows for the first time a couple of years ago. We were told no less than "5" times, "this is a nude resort, do you understand?" "You are to be nude throughout the resort, this is not a clothing optional resort."

Yet.....at several times during our day visit, the dressed out numbered the nudes! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
No one was told to undress or leave, many of these dressed people were members, residents and even the owners. They were not just coming in from outside, they were not leaving. Most of them sat in the lounge and watched an entire football game.....clothed, and it was 90+ degrees outside. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And even nude mandatory clubs usually don't include the kids in that rule. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree 100% with you that kids should not be made to be nude. If they don't want to be nude, then I feel that their parents should visit a C/O venue and not a nude only venue. From what I've read so far, it seems that those of us that prefer nude only places will be forced to visit our nude only place with clothing optional the rule, now that's confusing. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You still ain't getting it. Let me try again. Just because it's a nude venue doesn't mean they require kids to be nude.

As I said, it's not a black and white issue. Many clubs claim one or the other but don't fit your definitions.

For instance, one nude club may have more exceptions for wearing clothes than another would.

And now you are confusing me because you've put your response in with my quote. Ack!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Walt Iliff:
Actually, the quote you attributed to me was from a previous poster who deleted their original post, which is why my second sentence reads the way it does. What's more amazing though is that for the first time, we actually agree on something (I'm watching the skies for signs of lightning....is there an earthquake coming???)


Walt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is even more amazing is that you are admitting it.

[FireProf]

Well then, there lies the issue and what is the reason for this discussion. If there really isn't a distinction between nude only and clothing optional and there are always rules that are broken and not enforced...........then each and every club and resort that we "all" know about is Clothing Optional and there really aren't any nude only places! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


and....don't get upset with me about the reply in the quotes..........I thought I did it right but obviously I didn't......my mistake! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Gothmog]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Walt Iliff:
clothing-optional beaches should have separate areas/zones for nudists and textiles
Walt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then it wouldn't be clothing optional. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


If the two zones are on the same stretch of beach.. then you have the option of staying in the nude section or remaining clothed in the textile area.

Sounds clothing optional to me.

[Gary Naturist]

It seems to me that the real problem at a club or resort location occurs when the majority of adults or the majority of kids are dressed. Then the minority feels out of place and most will put on clothes.

I was once at Cypress Cove in January. It was quite cool but, being Canadian, I remained nude and went into the poolside bar at Happy Hour. Everyone was dressed. I felt very out of place and left immediately. (This from Mr. Nude in Public!)

If the majority of adults are sometimes dressed, I suspect that the majority of kids will want to be dressed all the time, at least away from the pool.

I think that a sensible rule would be that at least one of each adult couple must be nude in common areas (i.e. outside lodgings) at a given time, subject to the weather.

Re kids, I think that's it dangerous to force more than limited nudity on kids -- i.e. more than in and around the pool. Beyond this, kids should be encouraged but not forced.

Gary

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FireProf:
Well then, there lies the issue and what is the reason for this discussion. If there really isn't a distinction between nude only and clothing optional and there are always rules that are broken and not enforced...........then each and every club and resort that we "all" know about is Clothing Optional and there really aren't any nude only places! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


and....don't get upset with me about the reply in the quotes..........I thought I did it right but obviously I didn't......my mistake! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could never be upset with you!

[FireProf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FireProf:
Well then, there lies the issue and what is the reason for this discussion. If there really isn't a distinction between nude only and clothing optional and there are always rules that are broken and not enforced...........then each and every club and resort that we "all" know about is Clothing Optional and there really aren't any nude only places! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


and....don't get upset with me about the reply in the quotes..........I thought I did it right but obviously I didn't......my mistake! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could never be upset with you! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Walt Iliff]

Hi again folks,

I can only tell you about my experiences with White Tail Park which to my knowledge is the only park I know of in the US which has enforced, mandatory nudity in the recreational areas as well as the common buildings (weather and health permitting) for both adults and children. We have had no problems with this policy, to my knowledge. On the contrary, many of the adults and children like the policy because it takes the decision making process out of their hands. Nudity is the policy....plain and simple. If you want a clothing optional facility, there are others to choose from. I think that Cedar Creek Park in South Carolina has a similar policy, but I'm not sure...Cheri would know.
Interestingly enough, I just spoke to some friends from New York who frequently go to Solair, and were the ones commenting about the "ringleaders" of the "stay dressed" kids at Solair. My friends had recently gone to a club near Montreal where the club also had a firm policy about being nude while in the common areas of the grounds. He said that there were more than 30 kids on the grounds....all nude...all seemingly unconcerned. The next time he was at Solair ( a week or so ago,) he was talking to someone about this place, and to his surprise, this person he was telling about the club in Montreal had been to that club just the week before they had gone. His (not my friend's) kids were a little upset that they either had to get undressed or stay in the room, but after a couple of hours, they showed up nude and for the rest of the weekend, seemed to enjoy themselves, and stayed nude all weekend.
The ironic thing about this story is that the two girls who didn't want to get undressed, but wound up having to because of the park rules turns out to be the same two "ringleaders" of the Solair situation which started this thread in the first place.
I would love to have Solair put in an application to host next years' AANR East Youth Leadership Camp....sounds like a great place.

Walt

[Bob S.]

What is the real reason that children cannot be enforced to follow the rules of nude mandatory in such parks?

When we take children to Church, we make them put on their Sunday best and act politely when in the pews. When we take them out to a nice restaurant, we expect them to exhibit the right table manners.

No matter where we bring our children, we expect them to follow the rules of wherever we go.

If the argument is to keep them in nudism and enjoy it, they need to have a reason to go there. They need to have a peer group at the park so they don't feel left out or isolated. That, for a teenager, is the worst thing. They also need to have something to do while they are there. Without something construcitve to do, kids can get into trouble.

If the argument is that forcing nudty on a child is a little abusive, we are fighting against ourselves. Nudity is not a bad thing. It has nothing to do with abuse. This issue, as I see it, has to do with following rules and dress codes.

In some schools, children are made to put on a certain colored outfit. This may upset the children who are used to being able to wear their street clothes to school, but they get over it. In PE class, children are usually forced to wear a uniform which requires them to change their clothes in the locker room.

In nudist parks, nudity is the dress code. Why is it so far fetched that the childre follow this dress code as well?

Bob S .

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why is it so far fetched that the childre follow this dress code as well? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Why is it so far fetched that people would have differing philosophies on raising children?

[Trailscout]

Well said, Bob!

Children and teens' biggest worry is not being nude, but not fitting in.

I did see one instance this summer of a grown single woman who started out in shorts and a bikini top and gradually worked up the courage for full nudity within a couple of hours. She looked really happy after her victory over this worry. Unfortunately, teens are not as likely to follow their inner voice about nudity, but too often take their cue from what others are wearing.

[Nudony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't you think it would be harder for a first timer to actually get nude when most the people around you are clothed? I think it's easier at a nudist venue than C/O. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is also a good topic in its own right. My wife would be the first to admit she would have never gone completely and openly nude if she hadn't found herself in a situation where she was surrounded, and interacted with a group of completely nude women.

[quote]And there really aren't two distinct types of resorts for the most part, it's a blend from one to the other. Most nude only clubs don't force newbies to strip right away, they are given time to adjust. I think that adjustment time would be shorter if most of the people around them are nude.[quote]

Also a very good point. At the C/O resorts I've visited, the clothing ratio was still relatively low. At the nude resorts I've visited, I've never seen 100% nudity; pretty close, but not quite. Si I think it's true that each resort has it's own "vibe."

[FireProf]

We could be headed in a slightly different direction and a bit off topic here but from everyone is saying, there really aren't any nude only clubs or resorts.

Judging from those that have posted from either experience or otherwise, all clubs and resorts allow some degree of clothing to be worn at all times of the day and in different parts of the facility. Whether or not these nude only clubs/resorts have policies/rules in place and signage throughout the grounds, it seems that they are not being enforced and you still have people dressed at nude only places.

[quote]; At the nude resorts I've visited, I've never seen 100% nudity, pretty close, but not quite.[quote]

Then it's really not a nude resort is it!? If there are clothed people at this nude resort, it's now become clothing optional. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[dan t]

My wife and I had our first time this past weekend. she started off in a t-shirt but that evening when no one was around we got in the hottub.
Then saterday well it stayed off http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Cathy (my wife) said she had a verry relaxing weekend .
She told me next year maybe more weekends spent there! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
but it is a nude only they told us.


See Me

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Mikejb, before you talk about trampling all over nude freedoms perhaps you should go back and read your post of 10:02 on Christian nudists and then offer some justification for your "right" to decide for others what is and is not proper behavior.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just dont like the idea of some textile nitwits coming into a nudist resort and giving alot of BS why the nude resort should go c/o just because they cannot have the maturity to follow the rules that are expected of them there. if you go to a nudist resort then you should expect to be nude and do whatever that resort tells you to do on its land, otherwise dont go there. If people want to wear clothes, they should go to a textile resort or find one of those c/o *soon to be textile* resorts and leave the nudists at the NUDIST resort alone. I can understand newcomers and those with medical issues wearing clothes when appropriate but otherwise people at nudist resorts should be expected to be nude at all times, otherwise they do not belong there. Also children SHOULD be expected to be NUDE at a NUDIST resort, just in the interest of keeping everything fair and applying the rules to everyone. If the kiddies are not comfortable being nude there then the parents should simply not bring them there and take them to a c/o resort to get them used to nudity before bringing them to the nudist resort. If you bring children to a nudist resort then you bring them there with the understanding that they will be nude at all times. Any issues the children have with being nude need to be resolved before bringing the children to such places.

[BrianNY]

OK, I have heard about this thread from my friends ercNY and Walt and have finally taken the time to read all of the interesting responses.

We have been AANR members of Solair for the past six years. Our girls were both quite young when we started going and at the time all of the kids that they hung around with at Solair were for the most part completely nude. During the past couple of years we have noticed that the teens have been nude less and less and for the most part only nude when swimming. This is not 100% true of all teens but it is close. My older daughter has always been an exception to the rule and remains nude virtually at all times. She has felt uncomfortable in many teen settings and has even commented to me that the "ringleaders" are more friendly to her if she is clothed (like she might be at a dance at night). If that isn't peer pressure...

We had a chance to be in Virginia during July and decided to take a look at White Tail Park while we were down there. One of the main reasons that we went there was because after reading the rules on the website both of my girls were excited that it was nude only for adults and kids which they thought would be more comfortable for them. The first night we were there I met Walt and my older daughter met a girl very close in age to her. I was present when my daughter told her new friend about the teens at Solair and how my daughter often felt uncomfortable staying nude around clothed teens. Her new friend said something like "Wow - I would hate that. If I was there I might be unfortable nude too". Well they soon became friends and between this girl and Walt both suggesting that we stay the week and have our girls attend the AANR East Youth camp, the next thing we knew we had an extended nude vacation on our hands...

As Walt previously mentioned, my older daughter was elected (by her peers) to be the AANR East Youth Vice-President for 2005/2006. She is a true leader in every sense, from school, on the softball field to talking about nudity with her nudist peers. She loved the freedom of having the rule at White Tail that everyone was nude and the freedom from peer pressure that that rule allows. We witnessed many happy kids of all ages at White Tail Park. I do believe that the total nudity rule benefits kids at a nudist park. It takes the guess work out of it for the kids. They are all nude and all happy with that. If they weren't happy with that they wouldn't be there in the first place.

We went to Solair the following weekend and were disappointed at going back to clothing optional rules. Solair by the way is clothing optional - nude only in pool, hottub or pond.

The following weekend we went to Oasis in Montreal. The club was very similar to White Tail except that 90% of the people were speaking French... Anyway, again everyone totally nude, no exceptions everywhere on property during the day (weather permitting of course). I have never seen so many kids at any nudist resort. There must have been at least 50 or more - all nude, all happy, swimming, etc.

Sorry for the long post here but my vote is to have more clubs totally nude like White Tail Park and Oasis. Solair is a great place too - but the peer pressure thing is very real and a problem. Since it is a co-op they can never agree on anything there and the clothing optional rule is not likely to change.

Next summer we will definitely be driving 500 miles back to White Tail Park for a week, spending several weekends at Solair and also spending at least a week at Oasis in Montreal. If Solair were 100% nude for all, we probably would do a lot less driving next summer.

[Bob S.]

Brian, were you at White Tail for their Open House? For some reason, I think I remember seeing a new family with two girls there.

"Why is it so far fetched that people would have differing philosophies on raising children?"

It isn't cyndiann. It just a debating point. I gave my arguement ending in my closing quetsion for others to discuss.

"Whether or not these nude only clubs/resorts have policies/rules in place and signage throughout the grounds, it seems that they are not being enforced and you still have people dressed at nude only places."

Fireman, the issue only comes up when there is a perceived problem such as was the case at Solair. I personally don't have any conflicting opinions regarding nude only or clothing optional. The problems arise when the residents of those particular parks notice too many clothed visitors; and that watershed number will vary depending on the culture of each park.

"I just dont like the idea of some textile nitwits coming into a nudist resort..."

If a true textile (someone with no nudist leanings) were to go to a nudist park, they would have nothing to complain about.

And why refer to a CO park as a "soon to be textile" park? There are plenty of CO parks that are mostly nude.

I do wonder about one thing, what is the average percentage of naked people at a nude only park vs. a CO park? Is there that much of a difference? Among the adults? Among the teens/children?

Bob S.

[BrianNY]

Bob S. asked:
Brian, were you at White Tail for their Open House? For some reason, I think I remember seeing a new family with two girls there.

Answer:

We were at White Tail Park from July 22- August 1st. Please note that Solair is NOT a nude only club like White Tail Park. Solair is clothing optional.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
If a true textile (someone with no nudist leanings) were to go to a nudist park, they would have nothing to complain about.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just think some people come to these nudist resorts and either dont like nudity or dont like the fact that its being forced on themselves and others and they try to hassle these places into becoming clothing optional just so that they dont have to either adjust to being nude or simply leave. These people just think they can come into such places and tell the people who own them to do things however they want em to.

Many nudist resorts are best the way they are and going clothing optional is only gonna hurt them because its gonna attract all the weirdos who come there just to see nude people and attract the people who belong at textile resorts and it just defeats the whole purpose of having a NUDIST resort where people are expected to be and expect to see NUDE people.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
And why refer to a CO park as a "soon to be textile" park? There are plenty of CO parks that are mostly nude.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Theres always the risk that if whoever runs the place gets too leniant on the whole clothing optional thing, people will just stop going nude all together and then you basically have a textile resort because once everybody starts going clothed there theyll decide they like it better that way and if theres any body else who wants to go nude, the vast majority who come clothed and are used to it wont feel comfortable seeing a few nude people and will force them to put clothes on or those nude people will simply feel intimidated around so many clothed people, theyll just chicken out and leave.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I do wonder about one thing, what is the average percentage of naked people at a nude only park vs. a CO park? Is there that much of a difference? Among the adults? Among the teens/children?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well im sure having the nude required rule at nudist resorts helps alot to keep things pretty much in the majority as far as nudity is concerned. At least with those rules, theres no fear of people becoming accustomed to wearing clothes there and turning a long time nudist resort into some kind of run down textile resort. I dont think the "real" nudists out there get chased off much by their resorts requiring nudity 98% of the time. Most of the people who have issues with it probably areint real nudists anyways and just wanna cause trouble.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
She has felt uncomfortable in many teen settings and has even commented to me that the "ringleaders" are more friendly to her if she is clothed (like she might be at a dance at night). If that isn't peer pressure...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

She shouldnt feel uncomfortable, if her "ringleader" buddies wont be nice to her reguardless of what she is wearing then they dont seem like the type of people she ought to be hanging out with because if they were really her friends then they wouldnt be different to her sometimes just because shes nude. Id tell those ringleaders to be nice to her when shes nude AND clothed or get the hell away from her. Nobody should treat anybody's daughter like that. I would go someplace and take kids to someplace who have crummy kids there like that who only wanna play with you if youre clothed.

[krcNY]

We followed BrianNY and his family to Solair for the two weekends.

The first time going my 10 yr old daughter was so excited about going she hardly packed any clothing. Just some long clothes for cooler nights.

The following weekend, she was trying to pack only her "trendy" clothes, and yes she packed at least 2 outfits for each day. When I went thru her bag, I took some out and we commented to her when she came to get more clothes from our campsite.

I do not think the girls are trying to be spitefull to BrianNY's daughter, but trying to show off their clothes. In effect is makes thing uncomfortable. I think their parents need to take control and limit the clothing.

Our son on the otherhand would not go without clothes. None of the boys were nude either unless swimming. So we did not push the issue with him.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I just think </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, stop doing that!

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I just think </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, stop doing that! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Who are you quoting and is it necessary?

[Nudony]

I'm guessing it was a response to an incomplete post that was subsequently deleted.

But I could be wrong...

[George F.]

Cyndiannaked's posts was quoting from the first three words of MikeJB's post right above krcNY's post. She doesn't like what he has to say obviously and rather than allow for freedom of thought/ thought process and debate she is telling MikeJB to in essence SHUT UP, stop thinking, stop giving us your opinion because I don't like the way you think.

Cyndiann often times I don't like your opnions, thoughts, feelings, or leanings this way or that way either but you don't see me telling you to in essence shut up.(Though that is how you will probably take this and then personally attack me for being in your view a hypocrite.) This is a forum for all members to voice their views whether you like them or not. Dont like the views expressed here and dont want to see them expressed well there is always possible solutions

Solution #1) Put up with others who you disagree with viewpoint wise and contribute in a constructive manner to these forums

or

Solution #2) Stop viewing, posting, and contributing to this forum and form your own (which this part of the solution you already have done, just missing the first part of the solution) where you decide what is discussed and by who and never comeback to this forum until you can contribute in a constructive manner accepting the fact everyone yourself included has a right to freely think for themselves and formulate their own opinions on things and state those views.


Don't like it leave!! Don't want to leave then accept the fact MikeJB, and anyone else here on these forums has a right to say what is on his or her mind and voice his or her thoughts regardless of how you feel even if it is the most off the wall thoughts or line of thinking.

As for my feeling on the actual topic:

I took my wife to a C/O club for her first time experience since I knew she wouldn't go for a nude only club. She felt weird being the only one clothed and went nude the next time we went there the following month.

We are both of the opinion that clothing opitional means clothing is approriate only if weather or health (including menstruation in this) does not allow for nudity other than those two exceptions NUDE ONLY. Our son who is going on five understands and accepts without arguement that if we are at our club or a resort he is expected to be nude unless told otherwise and I am willing to bet our daughter will be the same way when she is five (she was the natural born nudist between her and her brother getting clothes and a diaper on her is like giving 90% percent of all cats a bath).

If it had been me at Solair I would have said something to the parents probably asking why they are bringing their daughters if they obviously dont want to be nude.

Nudism/ Naturism is more than a lifestyle for my wife and me. It is about healthy living (organic foods, exercise, taking care of ourselves physically), healthly choices (same as before but also focusing on the mental, emotional, and spirtual side of things), and healthy thoughts (thinking positively, self affirmation and affirmation of others, etc). It is an everyday part of our lives and not just something that we do on the weekends or at our club or the resorts we visit.

Sorry was so long with the post.

George

http://cirrus.kcsky.net/hnc
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/143265

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George F.:
Solution #1) Put up with others who you disagree with viewpoint wise and contribute in a constructive manner to these forums
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Worth repeating

[Eric6420]

I prefer clothing optional to mandatoty nudity. I think that diversity is more interesting than conformity.

I go to my university swimming pool regularly. In the pool, some people wear long bermuda and others like me wear small bikini like swimming suits and there is no problem with that.

In the sauna, some are nude others are not, in the showers, most are nude but some are not, in the looker room (very large) some walk naked others not.

I think that far more people would go to nudist centers if nudity was not mandatory. After all, if non-naturist were permitted to come to naturist centers, they would see that there is nothing wrong with nudity and maybe they could become naturist themselves, making it easier to mainstreaming nudism.

I think that a lot of naturists like me, would like that places like beaches and swimming pools would be all clothing optional, or at least more than now.

But how can you explain that nude is natural, when you do not allow non nudes to see you?

How to ask that more beaches or swimming pools become clothing optional when nudists places are not?

When you read the rules of some nudists resorts that exclude men that are alone or men groups or gay couples, that there are rules that would be foolish if it was a non-naturist club, it send the message that there is something dangerous and non natural about nudity.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ercNY:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I just think </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, stop doing that! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Who are you quoting and is it necessary? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was meant as a bit of levity but I can see that a few people who love to look for reasons to whine have decided that jokes aren't permissible in their world.

Those three words are used often by Mike. I guess you didn't realize it. They were not meant to tell Mike to shut up. If I wanted to say that well, you know me, I'd just say it.

I do agree that George needs to follow his own advice (Solution number 1).

[Bob S.]

I just think

"Well, stop doing that!"

cyndiann, very succint and true. I don't understand what the tod was in that post. It was much better than telling Mike exactly what he needs to hear, which I shall do.

"I just think some people come to these nudist resorts and either dont like nudity or dont like the fact that its being forced on themselves..."

Mike, you have never visited a nudist park and yet, you are making suppositions about that which you don't know anything about. I have never been to a CO park, so I will not comment on how I think people in those places act. I can opine about how I feel about a CO park vs. a nude only park, but I would not do as you have done and suggest the reasons people go and what their motiviations are.

You, Mike, are speaking from an uninformed position and are grossly misinterpreting things that go on at nude only venues and CO venues.

"We followed BrianNY and his family to Solair for the two weekends."

Stalkers krc?? http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Bob S.

[krcNY]

If it was up to our daughter....we would have followed them home too!

[BrianNY]

quote:
Originally posted by Bob S.:
"We followed BrianNY and his family to Solair for the two weekends."

Stalkers krc??

Bob S.

No, they certainly were not stalkers - just a nice nudist family that didn't know exactly how to get there on their first visit. I suggested that they follow us.

[Walt Iliff]

Gee, Brian, you could have just left a trail of bread crumbs.

Walt

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Mike, you have never visited a nudist park and yet, you are making suppositions about that which you don't know anything about. I have never been to a CO park, so I will not comment on how I think people in those places act. I can opine about how I feel about a CO park vs. a nude only park, but I would not do as you have done and suggest the reasons people go and what their motiviations are.

You, Mike, are speaking from an uninformed position and are grossly misinterpreting things that go on at nude only venues and CO venues.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Youre right I have never been to such places but I still come on here and read things and hear from various people about this subject and what ive said here is just how I feel towards that sort of thing based on all the things ive read and heard about. I dont actually have to visit a nudist resort to have an opinion about them.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Well, stop doing that!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cyndiann, if you dont like what I say here then dont read it. You really need to learn to be more "accepting" and "tolerant" of other people's thoughts and opinions. If you cant do that then it really makes me wonder why youre even here, especially when you could scurry back to your own forum full of likeminded people who you can discrminate against their free speech and keep everything one sided there as much as you want.

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:
I dont actually have to visit a nudist resort to have an opinion about them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes you do Mike, you can not make an educated opinion on anything without experiencing it. You really do not have any idea about the atmospehere there until you go. You only have feelings based on other people.

The same when you speak about raising children and tell others how to handle kids, when you have absoltely no first hand knowledge.

You really should stick to things that you actually have experienced.

Just my opinion, and certainly not meant to be hurtful.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Well, stop doing that!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cyndiann, if you dont like what I say here then dont read it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't comment on liking what you said.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">


You really need to learn to be more "accepting" and "tolerant" of other people's thoughts and opinions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pot kettle black!<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">


If you cant do that then it really makes me wonder why youre even here, especially when you could scurry back to your own forum full of likeminded people who you can discrminate against their free speech and keep everything one sided there as much as you want. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My site isn't one sided at all. I have christians there and wiccans and atheists. I have Republicans and Democrats. There are all ages too.

The only thing you can get banned for is intolerance.

YOU were removed because you posted biggoted statements. That isn't included in free speech and it's intolerant. You don't get to attack people on MNL.

Gosh, here we even have the moderators flaming people.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:

Youre right I have never been to such places but I still come on here and read things and hear from various people about this subject and what ive said here is just how I feel towards that sort of thing based on all the things ive read and heard about. I dont actually have to visit a nudist resort to have an opinion about them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Mike, you're basing your knowledge and opinions on what other people say since you have no personal experience in social nudism?

[FireProf]

So......we should try and get back on topic! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Did any of this communication help at all with your situation, ercNY and krcNY?

Regardless how all of us feel, whether we like nude only or clothes optional, whether or not a club or resort is willing to enforce it's rules, the question remains, how do you get a nude only club to keep from having young teens, kids and young adults clothed at a nudist venue?

Prior to entry into the club/resort.

?Mandatory discussion with parents and teens and young adults about the joys of nudism, the benefits of nudism, the freedom and the rules of the club/resort?

For those that are already members and have established a trend of dressing and being dressed at a nude resort, some discussions about nudism, it's benefits and the clubs rules at a social function, like an ice cream social where you know everyone will be in attendance.

Activities that will get their clothes wet so they prefer being nude. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Obviously this doesn't help if it freezing outside! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FireProf:
So......we should try and get back on topic! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Did any of this communication help at all with your situation, ercNY and krcNY?

Regardless how all of us feel, whether we like nude only or clothes optional, whether or not a club or resort is willing to enforce it's rules, the question remains, how do you get a nude only club to keep from having young teens, kids and young adults clothed at a nudist venue?

Prior to entry into the club/resort.

?Mandatory discussion with parents and teens and young adults about the joys of nudism, the benefits of nudism, the freedom and the rules of the club/resort?

For those that are already members and have established a trend of dressing and being dressed at a nude resort, some discussions about nudism, it's benefits and the clubs rules at a social function, like an ice cream social where you know everyone will be in attendance.

Activities that will get their clothes wet so they prefer being nude. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Obviously this doesn't help if it freezing outside! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks my friend...sure is freezing in here http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I hope that we can help make a difference maybe next season.

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ercNY:
I hope that we can help make a difference maybe next season. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am sure you will ercNY. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sorry I allowed your topic to get hijacked. I have put it back on track.

[Illinois07]

I think that only people who have been to Solair and White Tail can comment on whelher they are "nude enough" I have been to clubs but not these. Based on what I read here, I would probaly want to visit White Tail but not Solair.

[Trailscout]

I spent several days at White Tail Park this summer and nudity is really no big deal. When everyone is nude all the time for days on end, you don't feel like you are lacking anything, you don't stand out in a crowd! And it sure was comfortable!!

[Bob S.]

"I dont actually have to visit a nudist resort to have an opinion about them."

No Mike, you don't. But you also can't make comments on the goings-on of those same parks without full knowledge of what is going on.

You have been stating that you know what certain people's intentions are when going toa nudist park. You feel a CO park is a textile wannabe park, yet I would venture to guess that you don't know the percentage of naked people at certain CO parks, their clientelle (members and guests), or even their rules and how they differ from a nude only park.

Having opinions are fine, but don't start to assume that you know facts about certain issues relating to nudist parks.

" just a nice nudist family that didn't know exactly how to get there on their first visit. I suggested that they follow us."

Brian, you weren't supposed to tell us that. I liked the little stalker joke much better http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"how do you get a nude only club to keep from having young teens, kids and young adults clothed at a nudist venue?"

Peer pressure and adherence to the rules. It is not impossible for them to follow the same rules that everyone else follows. And to keep them busy with fun activities either structured or unstructured.

If you allow them to don clothes without a good reason not to remove them, they may keep them on. Parental pressure should be the first action. After that, management should have something on hand to get the kids to get in uniform. Nothing forced, but something that will be of interest to them.

Bob S.

[BrianNY]

OK, to clarify again, Solair IS NOT a nude only club. Adults and children both can be nude or clothed anywhere on the grounds except in the pool, hottub or pond, which require complete nudity. So the parents of the "ringleaders" have no obligation (at least at Solair) to discuss the matter with their kids at all. To a much lesser extent, some of the adults remain clothed too although I can't imagine why.

I think that I can make an opinion on the matter at hand, since we have two children (girls) and we have been to several clothing optional clubs including Solair and several nude only clubs including White Tail Park. My wife and I have watched our girls and other kids at both types of clubs. It is our opinion that kids are happier at nude only clubs like White Tail. When the rule is clearly spelled out, it takes the "guesswork" out of the equation for the kids. I have witnessed kids happy nude and then put clothes on when they see others clothed.

I did mention this to ercNY early in his first visit to Solair. I also witnessed the effect that it had on his daughter one morning.

Anyway, just my opinion - well actually it is my wife's too and also both of my daughters.

Trailscout said: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I spent several days at White Tail Park this summer and nudity is really no big deal. When everyone is nude all the time for days on end, you don't feel like you are lacking anything, you don't stand out in a crowd! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree more. Let me add to that that I witnessed first hand with my daughters and others that nudity there is no big deal because it is a level playing field for all.

[EricNY]

Added note about Solair.....

It is a absolutly fabulous place!!! Sure it has a couple minor problems, but overall it has a fantastic family naturist environment. I highly recomend it to anyone that may find themself close to it.

The people there are absolutly top shelf...yes even BrianNY and his family. I am looking forward to going back, my kids well they want to live there year round. So it is a great place.

Just have to iron out a couple little wrinkles.

[John P]

I'm not much of a resort-going naturist, but I've been to Solair a couple of times (once as a guest of George W, once for Matt and Virginia's wedding). I liked the place a lot, and if I were ever disposed to join a resort, that's where I'd start.

But in general, as a theory, I think naturists ought to support each other by being nude whenever conditions allow. I'd feel that if people went around clothed at a "nudist resort", there could come a time when even people who wanted to be nude would feel that they weren't in the right place. Some people who do go to resorts say this very thing! Not that I'd ever want to tell people what to do, but I do have the feeling that every stitch of clothing worn by anyone is going to detract from the experience. It's more than just what we do ourselves, being naked among naked people is important to me.

I never saw any nude children or teenagers at Solair. In fact I saw them roaming around in groups--boys and girls separately--and thought that they weren't sharing with the adults or even having much fun themselves. But of course the teenaged mind is hard for adults to understand! I think it's true in most resorts that even if adults are expected to be nude, the rule doesn't apply to younger people, and I'm OK with that--it would seem cruel to force then into something that they might feel uncomfortable with but wouldn't be able to understand fully. Good for White tail Park if they can keep up the naturist ideal even for kids, and the kids accept it. It was interesting to hear about the girl who felt intimidated about being nude if none of the other kids did it, but was happy in a place where it was accepted that "here we all go nude".

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I didn't comment on liking what you said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can just tell from various posts that youve replied to me in that you generally dont like what I say on here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
My site isn't one sided at all. I have christians there and wiccans and atheists. I have Republicans and Democrats. There are all ages too.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These people might be from different backgrounds sure but I tend to think that they have the same views on alot of issues and if anybody tries to say differently then theyre looked down on.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The only thing you can get banned for is intolerance.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think you were that clear on what exactly you consider "intolerance" to be. It can be different things to different people.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
YOU were removed because you posted biggoted statements. That isn't included in free speech and it's intolerant. You don't get to attack people on MNL.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I beleive that you simply took my views on things too personally. Just because i dont agree with something doesnt make me intolerant. I wasnt attacking people I simply just didnt want people to force me to beleive in or agree with something that I didnt want to. Its like with some people you either agree with them or they try their best to make you feel crummy for feeling the way you do.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Gosh, here we even have the moderators flaming people.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that is a problem and hopefully its one that can be resolved in the near future.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
So Mike, you're basing your knowledge and opinions on what other people say since you have no personal experience in social nudism?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to base it on something.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
No Mike, you don't. But you also can't make comments on the goings-on of those same parks without full knowledge of what is going on.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, I just dont think that people wanna go to a nudist resort and see everybody wearing clothes, especially kids cuz if they wanna be naked and all their peers are wearing clothes then theyd feel intimidated and not wanna do it. I dont think thats fair to them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
You have been stating that you know what certain people's intentions are when going toa nudist park.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some people who go to these places *especially the ones who insist on being clothed at a nudist resort* are not real nudists. They intend to just cause trouble and make us nudists look bad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
You feel a CO park is a textile wannabe park, yet I would venture to guess that you don't know the percentage of naked people at certain CO parks, their clientelle (members and guests), or even their rules and how they differ from a nude only park.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well from what ive heard, alot of people *especially kids* given the choice at a c/o park will wear clothes and that kind of defeats the purpose of a c/o park when nobody will go naked because then its basically a textile park and those few who wanna go naked there will feel intimidated and those who are already clothed will feel uncomfortable with the few nudists who are nude there and will insist that they cover up and then the whole purpose of the clothing optional part is just basically thrown out. If people wanna go clothed to a park or resort then they should just stick to the textile ones and not demean those ones where people actually wanna go naked and see other naked people there with them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Having opinions are fine, but don't start to assume that you know facts about certain issues relating to nudist parks.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont know all the facts but im sure i have a pretty good idea about somethings that go on there.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I think it's true in most resorts that even if adults are expected to be nude, the rule doesn't apply to younger people, and I'm OK with that--it would seem cruel to force then into something that they might feel uncomfortable with but wouldn't be able to understand fully.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its only fair though to apply that rule to everybody because the adults might find it upsetting that theyre forced to be nude and their kids areint. Just like if you force the kiddies to be nude and the adults dont have to. The same rules need to apply to eveyrone. Its not cruel at all, kids have to do all sorts of things that might make them feel uncomfortable at first but hey they adjust to it and make the best of it anyways and if they dont understand the rules then hey thats what the fricken parents are for!!! if the kids dont understand then its probably the parents fault for not explaining it to them clearly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It was interesting to hear about the girl who felt intimidated about being nude if none of the other kids did it, but was happy in a place where it was accepted that "here we all go nude".
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, she shouldnt have been made to feel intimidated like that. More of the kids shouldve been nude for one thing and even if they werent, those "ringleader" kids had no business making that girl feel uncomfortable or intimidated just because she was naked. They also were in the wrong for only being nice to her if she had her clothes on, thats totally rude. If I was her parents and knew those little brats did that to her, id be pissed to no end. Id tell them to either treat her with respect reguardless of her dress or just stay the hell away from her.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
So the parents of the "ringleaders" have no obligation (at least at Solair) to discuss the matter with their kids at all.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The adults of those "ringleader" kids may not need to talk with them about going nude themselves but they do need to have a talk with them about how to treat other kids there who might wish to go nude. The way those kids made that girl feel when she was nude was just wrong and that cant be tolerated. These places cannot have a group of clothed kids coming in there and bullying other kids just because they chose to be nude. They need to learn to treat their fellow peers with respect or just keep their distance from them if they cannot learn to act like human beings like the rest of us.

[John P]

I didn't mean that BrianNY's daughter was "intimidated" by anyone else's actions, just that she didn't want to be the only nude teenager around--just as at some locations, people say that naked adults can feel out of place! And I don't think there were any "ringleaders", it's just the custom of the young people at Solair. I'm sure that once the pattern gets set that way, it's going to be very difficult to change it. And if people did try to change their kids' behavior, there'd be conflict in those families and those young people might not be willing to come at all any more. Given that there aren't all that many of them, it's probably wisest to leave them alone. Anyway, it's a situation for the people who actually go to Solair to deal with.

[MikeJB]

The families of the kids just need to get some of them to go naked so that the ones who like to go nude will not feel that theyre the only ones doing it and feel out of place. Sure it might make some of em feel uncomfortable at first but maybe if they tried being naked long enough they might actually find they like it. Parents make kids do all sorts of things that they dont like for their own good, exposing them to nudity and getting them to try it out is no different. If these kids have never been nude in a social situation then they really have no room to say how they would feel about being naked in that situation until theyve tried it. Just like a kid cant say they dont like vegetables if theyve never eaten one.

[Laura Lopez]

I'm a devoted fan of clothing optional.

I love freedom, and I think everyone should be free to make their choice about being naked or clothed.

[MikeJB]

Yeah and then everybody is going to choose to be clothed and those of us who choose to be nude are going to feel out of place and uncomfortable and be forced to put clothing on just to fit in. The whole idea of going to a nudist resort is to be amongst other likeminded nudists and not have 90% of your clientel wearing clothes. If people want that theyll go to the local textile resort.

[krcNY]

I met a lot of people at Solair. I talked to a couple where the wife always had on something. Her husband loves the place and being nude but she is not comfortable being totally nude. She goes with him to Solair because she can have on a sarong, otherwise she would not go with him. This seemed like a compromise on her part and I was happy to see they could make it work out for both of them.

I get cold easily so I bring something with me, just to put on my shoulders in case I get a chill.

I thought Solair was wonderful and look forward to going back next year. We will talk more with our kids before going back about the amount of clothing they wear and hopefully will have an effect. We will also be visiting a few other locations next season and the kids will see different views.

Can't wait until winter is over and it is not even here yet http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[shãybare]

http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
I have to admit I do flip-flop sometimes regarding this topic. While I had rather be nude all the time and have in the past believed nudism is for everyone, I now feel each must make up their own mind about nudism. It is certainly more difficult to be a nudist in cold climates. But, however, people in cold climates can still have the attitude that nudity in front of others is no big deal and nothing to be ashamed of.

I believe in freedom of choice. But I also believe sharing our message of nude freedom is essential to the growth of nudism. I do not believe in forcing our doctrine on any one, just as I do not believe others should force their doctrine on me.

Knowledge opens our minds to better choices in life.

[Bob S.]

"So the parents of the "ringleaders" have no obligation (at least at Solair) to discuss the matter with their kids at all."

At the risk of sounding like Yogi Berra, the problem isn't a problem until it is a problem. Brian, if enough parents have a problem with their children being clothed, it is time to have a group meeing of all the parents. And from that meeting should emerge some plans on how to guide their kids to be clothesfree.

"Some people who go to these places *especially the ones who insist on being clothed at a nudist resort* are not real nudists. They intend to just cause trouble and make us nudists look bad."

What is a "real nudist" Mike? krc mentioned that she met a woman who was never naked, yet she was at Solair. Was she there to cause trouble and make the other nudists look bad? Was she a real nudist?

Again, you are using heresay to make suppositions about the type of people who visit nudist facilities. And how do the clothed ones make the nudists look bad?

"I dont know all the facts but im sure i have a pretty good idea about somethings that go on there."

But you are proving that statement wrong here.

"I wasnt attacking people I simply just didnt want people to force me to beleive in or agree with something that I didnt want to."

You were attacking teachers over at MNL just as you have done here. cynidann told you to stop it. You didn't and she banned you.

Bob S.

[FireProf]

This really isn't an issue unless what is happening here is actually what is happening at our Naturist Resorts and Clubs.

There are supposedly two types of clubs/resorts; nude and clothing optional.

At a nude club/resort you are expected to be nude in all areas of the facility weather and health permitting. It is expected that the amount of clothed people at this type of resort will be either nil or minimal.

At a clothing optional club/resort, you can wear various degrees of clothing or none at all. It's your choice and those that visit there can expect to see different degrees of clothed visitors.

What seems to be the discussion here is that some of us here prefer clubs and resorts. Others prefer clothing optional. The discussion further indicates that many expect ALL clubs and resorts to be clothing optional and not have any nude resorts. It makes no sense to turn our nude resorts and clubs into clothing optional when the clothing optional venues clearly outweigh the nude venues.

There are very few nude clubs and resorts. There are clearly many more clothing optional resorts and clubs. If we are all about choice and WE as nudists want the choice to live our lives and vacation or spend our free time without clothes whenever possible, why are we so insistant on now sharing our very venues with the textiles that don't feel the same way we do.

WE need both types of clubs/resorts, that has been stated and agreed upon. What we clearly do not want to do is now turn our NUDE clubs and resorts in clothing optional. In my opinion, for nudists, that's going backwards. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
What is a "real nudist" Mike?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Someone who enjoys being nude and makes it a part of their lifestyle and actually shares some of the same beleifs as other nudists and actually does things that other nudists do. Basically someone who goes to a nudist resort and stays clothed and complains about feeling uncomfortable with everyone else being naked around them is not a real nudist. Sure alot of first timers are like this when they come for the first time but at least some of them make an attempt to adjust or they leave, these other people who are there to simply cause trouble dont leave and they dont try to adjust.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
krc mentioned that she met a woman who was never naked, yet she was at Solair. Was she there to cause trouble and make the other nudists look bad? Was she a real nudist?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Solair is a clothing optional resort and not a straight nudist resort. People who go to one of those c/o places are not necessarily nudists, so most of those people are not there to cause trouble. Im talking about the types who go to actual nudist resorts and cause trouble and try to convert them to clothing optional resorts so that they can come there but dont have anybody forcing them to be naked. if people dont wanna be naked then they go to a clothing optional resort or a textile resort.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Again, you are using heresay to make suppositions about the type of people who visit nudist facilities. And how do the clothed ones make the nudists look bad?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most people who go to these places are legit but youve always got some bad apples who come in and ruin it for everybody else. I think most of these people who run the nudist resorts have probably run into these wackos before and know who they are and what theyre like and how to deal with them. Its just annoying that such people are even able to get in because as long as theyre there, they make the real nudists who are there uncomfortable.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
You were attacking teachers over at MNL just as you have done here. cynidann told you to stop it. You didn't and she banned you.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was just not gonna put up with alot of BS from some left wing teacher union nitwits who demand for more pay in schools but yet do a less than stellar job. Im not saying those people on that actual forum ar elike that but they all hang around in the same crowd and im sure those guys know who im talking about and I just think that the teachers who do a crummy job simply need to learn some responsibility and own up for their actions. Kid's education suffers because of lousy teachers who do a bare minimum job but expect to get paid the big bucks like theyre doing above and beyond the call of duty. I just think thats sick.

[John P]

What is a "real nudist" Mike? krc mentioned that she met a woman who was never naked, yet she was at Solair. Was she there to cause trouble and make the other nudists look bad? Was she a real nudist?

I'm sure the clothed woman at Solair wasn't there to cause trouble deliberately, but still she was doing her part to make it into a textile resort. Was she a real nudist? No, obviously not, she had the opportunity to be a nudist, and refused. Those poeple are "textiles" and in that sense, Solair is a naturism-optional resort, which I'll say even though I like the place.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I'm sure the clothed woman at Solair wasn't there to cause trouble deliberately, but still she was doing her part to make it into a textile resort. Was she a real nudist? No, obviously not, she had the opportunity to be a nudist, and refused. Those poeple are "textiles" and in that sense, Solair is a naturism-optional resort, which I'll say even though I like the place.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats why there needs to be more nudist resorts and less clothing optional ones because then the nudist resorts would not put up with a woman like that and she would be ejected from the resort. When people like that go to clothing optional resorts theyre a risk to the resort because they can influence the resort to go textile and then the people who go there who enjoy the freedom will lose the clothing optional aspect of the resort just to please a few stuck up people who are not willing to go nude and insist that others remain clothed. I dont think thats fair. She should either take advantage of the clothing optional aspect of the resort or just go to a textile resort. I mean why go to a c/o resort if youre just gonna stay fully clothed all the time? That could be done at a textile resort. At least most who go to c/o resorts probably at least take some of their clothes off.

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:
Thats why there needs to be more nudist resorts and less clothing optional ones because then the nudist resorts would not put up with a woman like that and she would be ejected from the resort. When people like that go to clothing optional resorts theyre a risk to the resort because they can influence the resort to go textile and then the people who go there who enjoy the freedom will lose the clothing optional aspect of the resort just to please a few stuck up people who are not willing to go nude and insist that others remain clothed. I dont think thats fair. She should either take advantage of the clothing optional aspect of the resort or just go to a textile resort. I mean why go to a c/o resort if youre just gonna stay fully clothed all the time? That could be done at a textile resort. At least most who go to c/o resorts probably at least take some of their clothes off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon Mike...be real here!

First of all she is there and in support of her husband and that is a great thing. Her husband wants to be there and she is not comfortable being nude. Solair has been in existence since 1935 I really do not think that a couple of people are going to turn it textile after all these years.
Mike I find your post very uneducated. How many nude or C/O places have you been to? How can you make comments on situations that you have never experienced? I have yet to see true naturists get dressed at a c/o resort because of a couple of dressed people.

This particular person wore a sarong because that is where her comfort level is at the present time. In the future maybe she will raise the bar for herself and maybe she won't. The fact is NO ONE thought any less of her for being there, she was as welcome as my fully nude wife was. This is a good thing, and harms no one.

Get out there Mike and experience the REAL world and I am sure your veiws will change.

The last I knew Mike's total nude experience is at home alone. Yet he comes across as though he knows what he's talking about when he doesn't. He has absolutely no idea what social nudism is like since he hasn't experienced it, or has that changed?

To me it's like a boy who has never driven a car trying to tell experienced drivers all about driving.

[Michjoe]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">social nudiosm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Anybody know what that is? http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Bob S.]

"C'mon Mike...be real here!"

Unfortunately, erc, that is his reality.

"Basically someone who goes to a nudist resort and stays clothed and complains about feeling uncomfortable with everyone else being naked around them is not a real nudist."

And just how many people do that Mike? The only people I can think who would do that would be reluctant spouses.

"Im talking about the types who go to actual nudist resorts and cause trouble and try to convert them to clothing optional resorts so that they can come there but dont have anybody forcing them to be naked."

Again I ask you Mike, how many people do this? The only way a nudist park can become CO is if the management decides it. One person's complaining is not going to do anything except make them very unpopular and perhaps shown to the gate.

"I'm sure the clothed woman at Solair wasn't there to cause trouble deliberately, but still she was doing her part to make it into a textile resort."

She was there to accompany her nudist husband. But to suggest that she was turning it into a textile resort is a bit much, John. If all she was wearing was a sarong, is that so bad. I have seen many sarongs at WTP.

Remember that there is really no such thing as a nudity-mandatory park. There are always allowances for wearing clothing of some sort.

Bob S.

[krcNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:

Thats why there needs to be more nudist resorts and less clothing optional ones because then the nudist resorts would not put up with a woman like that and she would be ejected from the resort. When people like that go to clothing optional resorts theyre a risk to the resort because they can influence the resort to go textile and then the people who go there who enjoy the freedom will lose the clothing optional aspect of the resort just to please a few stuck up people who are not willing to go nude and insist that others remain clothed. I dont think thats fair. She should either take advantage of the clothing optional aspect of the resort or just go to a textile resort. I mean why go to a c/o resort if youre just gonna stay fully clothed all the time? That could be done at a textile resort. At least most who go to c/o resorts probably at least take some of their clothes off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are unbelievable. I was impressed by her, she was a very nice person. Her husband was a social nudist before they married and she is trying to grow with him. Some women would just make him change, but she is willing to go. She eventually will go nude, BUT HER COMFORT LEVEL is not there yet.

To me nudity is about comfort. I still thought is was wonderful that she was going with him, even if she wasn't fully nude.

I do not know why we need to defend her to you when she was doing more than a lot of wives would. I am not going to anymore. You need to get out there and meet some of these people yourselves. It is a great experience, reading on the forums is one thing, but meeting people in person is better.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I do not know why we need to defend her to you when she was doing more than a lot of wives would. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

She's also doing a lot more than MikeJB has done. He's not even tried going to a nudist venue.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I'm sure the clothed woman at Solair wasn't there to cause trouble deliberately, but still she was doing her part to make it into a textile resort. Was she a real nudist? No, obviously not, she had the opportunity to be a nudist, and refused. Those poeple are "textiles" and in that sense, Solair is a naturism-optional resort, which I'll say even though I like the place.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats why there needs to be more nudist resorts and less clothing optional ones because then the nudist resorts would not put up with a woman like that and she would be ejected from the resort. When people like that go to clothing optional resorts theyre a risk to the resort because they can influence the resort to go textile and then the people who go there who enjoy the freedom will lose the clothing optional aspect of the resort just to please a few stuck up people who are not willing to go nude and insist that others remain clothed. I dont think thats fair. She should either take advantage of the clothing optional aspect of the resort or just go to a textile resort. I mean why go to a c/o resort if youre just gonna stay fully clothed all the time? That could be done at a textile resort. At least most who go to c/o resorts probably at least take some of their clothes off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most resorts - whether they call themselves "nudist" or "clothing optional" - have general sets of standards.

1) Newcomers are allowed to get used to nudity at their own pace. Thus, if a reluctant spouse stays dressed, she will be welcome. Most sites - even those that call themselves "nudist" - will grant that degree of latitude. They would be crazy if they didn't.

2) From reading this thread, it looks like the guy complaining the most has never been in a social nudist venue. Well, I've been in scores of them in the last four decades. Let me make it clear - ALL NUDIST VENUES PERMIT CLOTHING. If it's cool and uncomfortable to be nude, we put clothes on. If the sun is overpowering and we wish to avoid severe sunburn, we cover up. If a lady is going through a timely event, she may be wearing shorts or slacks. Those in the teen years are allowed to remain dressed and not nagged to disrobe.

The only "rules" that I've seen that are * almost* universally enforced =

- No bathing suits permitted.
- You must be nude to use sauna, pool, jacuzzi/spa


3) There are some archaic places that mandate that you disrobe for the tour. Whether this is a loyalty test, a hazing, what? I don't know. I am a member at what is most certainly one of the two or three most conservative parks in the country - and they do not have a "nude hazing ritual". You take the tour clothed. There are areas where you can be alone if there's a shyness factor. If the distaff half of the couple wants to keep a long t-shirt on, etc. it's OK.

Where "nudist" and "clothing-optional" part the ways -- if you were to visit a NUDIST park they might frown on a non-nudist - someone who NEVER is nude - after several visits - from joining. A park that bills itself as "nudist" might get uptight over a prospective member who is not into being nude at any time. On the other hand, there are many "clothing optional" venues and events. For instance, the Naturist Gatherings and Festivals.

My recommendation - get out and see what social nudism is like. It is not the only element of nude or clothing-optional living... but if you don't get out and try it out you are missing out on a lot of good times and great life experiences.

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I do not know why we need to defend her to you when she was doing more than a lot of wives would. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

She's also doing a lot more than MikeJB has done. He's not even tried going to a nudist venue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point

[John P]

If a clothed person at a nude venue is someone new who needs a little time to get used to the idea, then I'm all in favor. Let's make that indivisual welcome and show how much fun we're having, and how human beings are at their best when they aren't hiding.

On the other hand, if it's a regular attendee who'll never get undressed, then I wonder if they're doing better than someone who doesn't come at all. Is it a silent insult that says "I see what you're doing and I'll make it clear right in front of you that I'm not participating"? As I said before, clothing-optional is really naturism-optional, and a clothed person who could be nude isn't one of us.

And if there's someone else who's naked but doesn't feel entirely comfortable with it, might the presence of someone wearing textiles give that person just enough confidence in the wrong direction--"I can wear clothes, this other person has proved it"--and from then on there are two of them, and that makes it easier for a third one to do the same, then the next domino in line falls, and the next, and after a while the "nudist" resort is more clothed than not. We all have our limits on how much of an exception we're willing to make oursleves in company, and I think for a lot of us we're always aware that in the eyes of the "outside world" we're a bunch of freaks. Let the outside world intrude (in the form of clothing) and it ruins the special atmosphere, where you can believe that "society's rules don't apply here". You'll certainly get this view from Bill Pennington and Camilla van Sickle, who are as close to being professional nudists as anyone can get. They'll say they've seen parks which basically just stopped being nudist at all. (To be fair, they're an opinionated pair who may exaggerate. But they've seen a lot.)

I think there's something to be learned from the two resorts that the teenager went to. At one place, the prevailing custom was that everyone's nude and she did it and was happy. At the other, some of the adults and all the kids stay clothed and she'd have felt out of place if she was nude. It can be the same for adults.

And let me be tactless and point out that it always seems to be a gender-linked thing. It's not just random people who are uncomfortable nude at a resort, but almost always women, and that leads to an environment of "naked men and clothed women". If there were both men and women running around in clothing I could see a debate going on about "Are we letting each other down by not being nude?" but it would come out as
"All you girls need to get your clothes off" and that would definitely not be a comfortable thing to have in the air! I hate the idea of having rules; it's a whole lot better if there are customs that people follow and are happy with.

[WriteNaked]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And let me be tactless and point out that it always seems to be a gender-linked thing. It's not just random people who are uncomfortable nude at a resort, but almost always women, and that leads to an environment of "naked men and clothed women". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I think the issue presented here is not "simply" a gender-linked thing: it's a generational and peer-pressure thing. Teen-agers are encouraged by their parents to be clothes-free, but feel pressured by their age-group to keep their clothes on. So how do you support the ideal of a healthy family in which clothes are optional and everyone is comfortable whether someone is naked or not, in a more public situation in which some teen-agers are less comfortable being naked and want the support of other teen-agers keeping their clothes on.

So it's a tricky situation. Adults "enforcing" nudity among adolescents? Not cool. One family "imposing" its values on another? Also not cool. But either way, one family feels imposed upon by the commitments of another. A not easy thing to work through.

And yet, here's a forum of a group of people trying to talk sanely through the situation. And that's a pretty cool thing, I think.

WN

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
She's also doing a lot more than MikeJB has done. He's not even tried going to a nudist venue.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont go because I have other priorities now, otherwise I would. I wanna wait and go when I can enjoy myself and preferably go with someone else and when I wont be hassled by certain people for going to such a place. I think theres a difference between me and her. I just think you dont like me and you wanna find any reason you can to make me look bad here.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Teen-agers are encouraged by their parents to be clothes-free, but feel pressured by their age-group to keep their clothes on.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The teens need to learn to do what their parents say and not listen to their peers so much just because its cool. If their peers are really their friends then they will accept them clothed or nude, otherwise those teens are better off without those peers as friends. They need to have minds of their own and not feel pressured by people to do what is cool.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
So how do you support the ideal of a healthy family in which clothes are optional and everyone is comfortable whether someone is naked or not, in a more public situation in which some teen-agers are less comfortable being naked and want the support of other teen-agers keeping their clothes on.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just take em somewhere that doesnt get soft n fluffy with the rules as far as teens go and theyll feel just fine being nude around other teens because those teens'll be nude there as well. If you give em a reason to wanna be naked theyll do it. Its no wonder teens dont wanna get naked when they go places where most of their peers keep their clothes on. Thats why its good to avoid those places.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
So it's a tricky situation. Adults "enforcing" nudity among adolescents? Not cool. One family "imposing" its values on another? Also not cool.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Id much rather have adults and other family members enforcing teens to be nude rather than having their peers forcing them to be clothed. Adults/other family usually know better than most of your everyday peers do.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
But either way, one family feels imposed upon by the commitments of another. A not easy thing to work through.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think being naked around other people or encouraging them to be naked is imposing anything on anybody. Its about time somebody imposes something on teens these days because theyre getting influences from all the wrong sources and all its doing is hurting them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
And yet, here's a forum of a group of people trying to talk sanely through the situation. And that's a pretty cool thing, I think.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah its sane as long as you dont let the teens give in to their peers just to falsely be accepted and feel cool when theyre really not.

[Nudony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So it's a tricky situation. Adults "enforcing" nudity among adolescents? Not cool. One family "imposing" its values on another? Also not cool. But either way, one family feels imposed upon by the commitments of another. A not easy thing to work through. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. Let's look at a possible scenario. A and B are teens and good friends at a resort. A's parents have a "nude all the time" attitude; and they've done their best to instill that value at home and with their child. B's parents have a more "whatever you're comfortable with" attitude; so complete nudity is never emphasized. B is quite comfortable wearing a t-shirt most of the time, and only takes it off to swim or hot-tub. A, who up to that point always went nude, also begins wearing a t-shirt.

Who is to blame? Should B's parents be confronted? Should A be chastised for "following" B? I don't think there's an easy solution.

[krcNY]

Both of our families encouraged our girls to be nude at Solair. Which they did most of the time, when we saw my daughter grab clothes, we made her put some back.

Unfortunatey, we did not really know the boys parents to have an "alliance" with to get our son to stay nude.

I would like to add...As the holiday weekend progressed we did see the kids do more nude activities than the prior weekend. All the teens even took out the big boat around to pond. They swam out to the dock and hung out there for hours.

So I guess we will just have to visit many sites and compare notes on the different ways the teens deal with being nude.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
She's also doing a lot more than MikeJB has done. He's not even tried going to a nudist venue.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont go because I have other priorities now, otherwise I would. I wanna wait and go when I can enjoy myself and preferably go with someone else and when I wont be hassled by certain people for going to such a place. I think theres a difference between me and her. I just think you dont like me and you wanna find any reason you can to make me look bad here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I won't address the dispute you may have with another poster on this board, I will address two things --

First of all, I don't know why you have to wait to find an opportunity to go, or why you think you'll be hassled by anyone.

Now the other post.

You wanna know something -- what I think?

WHO GIVES A RAT'S *** IF THE TEENS KEEP THEIR CLOTHES ON ? If the teens want to stay dressed, let 'em do so. If they want to be nude, let 'em do so. WHO CARES?

A 12-13-14 year old is old enough to make a decision within a nudist park to stay clothed or dressed. Isn't nudism about comfort? And feeling good? If a kid wants to stay dressed, it's or her choice, not the parents'.

It's bad enough that many teens don't want to be "at camp" in the first place. When I was 14-15-16, I didn't want to be dragged off with my parents -- I wanted to be with my friends.

I suggest that you get off your duff and experience the social nudism thing yourself, and then familiarize yourself with the phenomenon of social nudist culture.

While I wouldn't be inquisitive about teens on a venture to the nudist park, you will undoubtedly notice that the 12-18 set won't mind disrobing to take a swim, but they will cover up when they come out of the water. If you see any teens at a nudist park, they will likely be dressed most of the time. Doesn't bother me. Doesn't bother their parents.

I've got news for you - nudist parks are tolerant of this. Nudist park members and management and PARENTS understand, too. Some of them WERE from nudist families and were raised in nudism from infancy. They understand the physical and psychological insecurities that occur in the adolescent years and persist through the teen years. NUDISTS ACCEPT IT AND THIS IS THEIR WAY OF DEALING WITH IT.

Coming from nudist culture myself - and having raised a child who enjoyed social nudism from infancy until she reached her adolescent pre-teen years, I understand. I can also understand a little why kids act as they do, because I can think back to when I was that age myself. Even if I had been raised in a nudist family, I think I'd feel awkward being nude in some situations at that age.

This "peer pressure" isn't spawning any type of destructive behavior. A kid keeping his pants on or her shirt on, or taking them off, in the confines of a nudist park is no big deal to ANYONE there.

Again, I recommend that you see the social nudist culture in the country for what it is. I can tell you that it is not a culture in which parents convince their teens to disrobe or not disrobe.

When our daughter felt uncomfortable about nudism in her pre-teen years, we backed away from it. And as she became an older teen, we did not force her into it. She, like most other nudist kids, can make the decisions whether to be clothed or nude on their own.

Incredibly - someone who has never been in a nudist environment (you) are seemingly telling people what is right and wrong -- I quote a statement =

"the teens need to learn to do what their parents say and not listen to their peers" and in the next sentence

"They need to have minds of their own".....

Inconsistent as all get-out. Allowing the kids to stay dressed is a result of their exercising "minds of their own" -- and any parent would respect that. This is not about drugs. This is not about sex. This is not about something dangerous. It's about whether they want to stay dressed or not. What is the big deal?

And why, as someone who admittedly has NEVER experienced social nudism, are you suddenly an expert as to how nudist families should raise their kids, or order their behavior?

[John P]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who gives a rat's *** if the teens keep their clothes on? If the teens want to stay dressed, let 'em do so. If they want to be nude, let 'em do so. Who cares? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I care. About nudity in general. not particularly about teenagers, oh dear me let's be clear about that. But then this is well said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So it's a tricky situation. Adults "enforcing" nudity among adolescents? Not cool. One family "imposing" its values on another? Also not cool. But either way, one family feels imposed upon by the commitments of another. A not easy thing to work through. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can people please stop hassling Mike, even if he's wrong? This thread is in danger of turning into being all about him, which I don't think anyone wants.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It's bad enough that many teens don't want to be "at camp" in the first place. When I was 14-15-16, I didn't want to be dragged off with my parents -- I wanted to be with my friends.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And when those teens wanna be with their so called "friends" guess what happens? They never spend quality time with their parents and family and they become distant from them and dont have a functional relationship with them and then they go with their "friends" and get drunk and laid and basically get themselves into situations that they have no way to get out of. Theres too many damn teens these days who spend little *if any* time with their parents and they spend too much time with the wrong kind of people and they and their parents and family end up suffering because of it. So they might not like going to campe but hey if it gets them away from lowlifes who wanna hurt them then hey thats fine with me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
A 12-13-14 year old is old enough to make a decision within a nudist park to stay clothed or dressed. Isn't nudism about comfort? And feeling good? If a kid wants to stay dressed, it's or her choice, not the parents'.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh no, being at a nudist park is about being nude and being around other like minded people who wanna be nude. If those kids wanna stay clothed then they could do that at home or a textile resort. To these kids being clothed is not about being comfortable or feeling good, its about giving into peer pressure and going along with the crowd like a good little obediant sheep. Personally I dont wanna see a good well rounded teen turn into a sheep just because their idiot friends want them to.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
While I wouldn't be inquisitive about teens on a venture to the nudist park, you will undoubtedly notice that the 12-18 set won't mind disrobing to take a swim, but they will cover up when they come out of the water. If you see any teens at a nudist park, they will likely be dressed most of the time. Doesn't bother me. Doesn't bother their parents.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah well it bothers me when kids will stay dressed almost all the time at a NUDIST RESORT! That means theres something wrong and it might be more than just some discomfort about being nude. I mean whats the problem with going nude if youre gonna agree to go to a NUDIST resort?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I've got news for you - nudist parks are tolerant of this. Nudist park members and management and PARENTS understand, too. Some of them WERE from nudist families and were raised in nudism from infancy. They understand the physical and psychological insecurities that occur in the adolescent years and persist through the teen years. NUDISTS ACCEPT IT AND THIS IS THEIR WAY OF DEALING WITH IT.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More kids were nude in the past than they are now. Most parents now are just too damn lazy to do anything about their kids giving into peer pressure from dumb kids at school who want their children to do idiotic things and instead of fighting the kids about it and getting them to do whats right they just let them do whatever the heck they want and then the parents end up paying for it when the kid gets hurt.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Coming from nudist culture myself - and having raised a child who enjoyed social nudism from infancy until she reached her adolescent pre-teen years, I understand. I can also understand a little why kids act as they do, because I can think back to when I was that age myself. Even if I had been raised in a nudist family, I think I'd feel awkward being nude in some situations at that age.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe she wouldnt feel so awkward about being nude if she didnt hang around some of the stuck up textile prudish bozos who probably populate her school. Its not like most of them will be accepting of the nudist lifestyle and most of them probably want her to get drunk and laid anyways.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
This "peer pressure" isn't spawning any type of destructive behavior. A kid keeping his pants on or her shirt on, or taking them off, in the confines of a nudist park is no big deal to ANYONE there.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That in itself may not necessarily lead to destruction but it can be the beginning of something that could lead to that. Its best not to take any chances sometimes. Kids hang out with some weird people these days. Theres nothing wrong with being a little cautious.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Inconsistent as all get-out. Allowing the kids to stay dressed is a result of their exercising "minds of their own" -- and any parent would respect that. This is not about drugs. This is not about sex. This is not about something dangerous. It's about whether they want to stay dressed or not. What is the big deal?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want kids to think for themselves and not let their friends dictate their actions. I do think that even if kids do think for themselves that they should still listen to and take advantage of the advice their parents give them because what their parents tell them can usually be much more beneficial than the garbage their friends at school tell them to do.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
And why, as someone who admittedly has NEVER experienced social nudism, are you suddenly an expert as to how nudist families should raise their kids, or order their behavior?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just think more kids need to embrace the nudist lifestyle, get naked, spend more time with their parents and get away from all their dopey MTV lovin bozo friends at school that wanna get em drunk and laid. I mean is that too much to ask of them? I want them to have friends but I want em to have friends who genuinely care about them and dont just wanna force em to follow some idiot trend that the media spits out at these kids.

[krcNY]

MikeJB...I agree with you for the most part. We would like our kids to have their own minds. But in the same token our kids who are both preteen, want dearly to "fit in". That is the age group.

I understand what you are saying, but then I understand their side of things too. What were your experiences as a kid? Is there reasons you feel so strongly? My parents took me away from the neighborhood every weekend for the same reasons you stated, and I am grateful now.

We are very involved in all aspects of our kids lives, they will not get the chance to go astray...but we will still like them to be happy with who they are. It is tough for both of us as their are no instruction manuals with kids and each kid is different. That is why we ask so many questions to other parents.

[FLslimguy]

I like Mike. I like the way he thinks.

I think he's right on with most of his comments, but wonder why he feels so strongly having not been a nudist venue himself. I feel strongly too, but I am a member at a nudist (not C/O) "resort".

I have found that when more teens are nude, more will be nude. If you see a few ring leaders or Peer leaders that always remain clothed, NO ONE gets nude. They even stay away from the pool. And quite honestly don't seem to be having much fun.

Overall, I agree with Mike's comments... now, it's for everyone to get nude!! You too Mike!

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:

<argumentum ad absurdiam>

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did want my daughter to think on her own.

I wouldn't make decisions involving clothing at a nudist park for her.

And when she was 14-15-16, she was able to choose her friends, make decisions for herself, which served her well in later life.

Peer pressure? Ya sometimes gotta go along to get along. If Mom and Dad like nudism and the kid (teen years) doesn't, the decision has to be respected.

When you talk about "many more kids were nude before" -- first of all, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN INSIDE A NUDIST PARK. Forget about what you saw in those old nudist cheesecake magazines from the fifties and sixties. Grandpa's cache of nudist magazines, profusely illustrated with attractive nude women aged 15-35, did not give an accurate PICTORAL reflection of nudism in those years.

Having been in nudist park culture for almost 30 years, I can tell you that the "teen reluctance" has existed for at least a generation. Those that were there before me, inform me that the situation has been the same.

I personally know nudists that were there in the 1940s -- they report the same.

Those "textile prudish bozos" are the majority. It's not a nudist park world. And people interact with others besides nudists. You have to raise your kids with an eye toward the world at large.

Mike, do you have any kids? We know that you're dispensing nudist advice, without having ever been in social nudism. How many teens have YOU raised?

Have they been successful in life? And their morality? I like to think my daughter has been wildly successful in her adult and professional life.

John P knows me well - and knows of my daughter - (John - make the connection, I'm the guy who goes to "that couples place" that you deride me on, and my daughter is an accomplished photographer, as well as being a now "retired" military officer - and my wife is the anthesis of me in terms of expressing opinions - so you know who I am)

But , Mike, with your philosophy - "parents must follow their parents' ways" -- how did your kids turn out?

[Nudeinbama]

What about a reluctant spouse, willing to go along with her husband , in hopes of giving it a try. True, maybe they should go to a clothing optional resort first, but there are many varibles as to why a nude and non nude couple may find theirselves at a nudist resort, maybe the only venue in their area or passing through on vacation and drop in.. I've been in on both of these situations.
Nudeinbama

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by krcNY:
MikeJB...I agree with you for the most part. We would like our kids to have their own minds. But in the same token our kids who are both preteen, want dearly to "fit in". That is the age group.

I understand what you are saying, but then I understand their side of things too. What were your experiences as a kid? Is there reasons you feel so strongly? My parents took me away from the neighborhood every weekend for the same reasons you stated, and I am grateful now.

We are very involved in all aspects of our kids lives, they will not get the chance to go astray...but we will still like them to be happy with who they are. It is tough for both of us as their are no instruction manuals with kids and each kid is different. That is why we ask so many questions to other parents. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kids must "fit in" to a degree to survive. It is important for their social survival. This does not mean they have to get drunk, use druge, etc. or as MikeJB was crudely expressing, get laid -- but they must conform to a degree. Not too many kids have the intellectual or reasoning skills to be a complete non-conformist that the fictional Daria Morgendorfer had. Of course, she shucked her parents' values along with everything else.

A trivial matter like keeping your pants on at the nudist park might be a "peer decision" that, as I said, no one - including generations of nudists, and most nudist parents - give a rat's *** about. Only our keyboard-onlym not a social-nudist MikeJB is concerned about it.

But if it's a matter of "going along to get along" - that's one of those peer pressure decisions that might be a GOOD one to knuckle under to.

My family can best be described as middle-to-upper-middle class - we live in a better neighborhood but in a rough-and-tumble town. My daughter had to be prepared to handle ANYTHING. Sheltering her and forcing our will on her on trivial decisions would have stunted her intellectual and social growth. We kept an eye on her -- and we did impress her with our moral and social and political values. But we allowed her to make her OWN choices in life, for the most part, and she emerged from her teen years with a greater degree of maturity than the kids around her.

And she watched MTV. And, in junior high, she hung around at the mall with her friends.

And in high school, she went to the concerts at the old Boston Garden and the Orpheum just like most of the other kids -- things anyone else her age did. She probably went to the occasional beer party just as the rest of us did. Other things, parents know about but "don't wanna know" about them. But she knew enough to prevent those dangers from hurting her.

It wasn't "Don't drink." It was rather, "We'd prefer you didn't drink. But if you do, whatever you do, DON'T DRIVE and don't let your friends drive drunk". We taught her the dangers of alcohol. We also taught her how to disconnect a coil wire so she could disable a friend's car, if need be.

It wasn't "don't have sex, ever" - it was "we'd rather you abstain - it is the best course BUT if you don't, you must protect yourself." And the dangers of not doing so.

I won't bore you with her college and post-graduate academic careers, or her career as a military officer, or her present venture of building her own business.

You instruct the kids on moral choices, and dangers of the wrong ones. You MUST teach them precautions. Given a choice between sheltering kids and informing them on the realities of life, I would advise anyone to do the latter.

Molding them into your own image is usually sheltering them.

Over-protected kids tend to have trouble making real-life decisions later on, when they have to. I know several ADULTS who are unable to make those decisions.

So when our daughter wanted to stay dressed at the age of 12 - and really didn't want to do the nudist scene through her teens - we respected her decision. In her high school there were several other nudist kids, with whom she did not maintain close friendships -- after all, kids grow and develop different interests -- and they did OK, too, and they made the same decision that they didn't want to follow a nudist path as their parents did.

So be it. In the grand scheme of things, a teen keeping his pants on or taking them off at a nudist park is not an issue.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Lee:
a reluctant spouse should visit a clothing optional beach with their partner. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And since a lot of people might be clothed she will take longer to feel comfortable enough to go nude, or she may never feel comfortable enough at all, especially if there are a lot of gawkers around. Because it's a public beach anyone can be there and usually are including lots of people who aren't nudists and don't intend on being one.

A nude resort would inspire her to give full nudity a try because almost everyone around her is also nude. Nude resorts usually don't demand everyone strip right away. They give leeway to newbies to become accustomed to it all. There is also almost no chance of gawkers being there.

It all depends on the person though. My first time was at a beach and I was alone. I had no problems and most people don't.

[John P]

Oh Usuallylurk, so you're -- OK, hello there. I did wonder if you'd be able to give up naturist discussion boards.

[EricNY]

Usuallylurk......

EXCELLENT post Thank you!!

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John P:
Oh Usuallylurk, so you're -- OK, hello there. I did wonder if you'd be able to give up naturist discussion boards. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hell, no.

[Bob S.]

"Adults "enforcing" nudity among adolescents? Not cool."

How is that "not cool" WN? If the teens were to all don swimsuits and start to go swimming, should they be allowed to do that? The "enforcement" should be more of guiding them and giving them nude activities. At White Tail, adults "enforce" nudity among the adolescents. At Solair, they do not.

Some ways for parents to enforce nudity would be to take the clothes away from their children and just simply tell them to go out naked. They can argue with the parents telling the child that they can either stay in the home (or room) clothed or come out naked. This is just like a parent telling their child that they cannot come into the living room naked. Is it also uncool for them to give that rule as well?

"One family "imposing" its values on another? Also not cool. But either way, one family feels imposed upon by the commitments of another."

They are at a nudist park, so by implicitness, they have the expectation of nudity. The values that would be imposed would mainly be by the CO parent. Even at a CO park, nudity should be considered the state of dress and clothing, if it is causing a problem with others, should be addressed.

"a kid wants to stay dressed, it's or her choice, not the parents'."

This leads to other quetions, lurk. At what age are kids ready to decide for themselves whether they can be dressed or clothed? At what age are kids ready to follow the rules of nudity at a nudist park?

"f you see any teens at a nudist park, they will likely be dressed most of the time."

At White Tail, I have found that to be false. The teens there are naked most of the time.

"This "peer pressure" isn't spawning any type of destructive behavior."

What would happen if you went to church and saw some teens wearing jeans and a t-shirt. Your children see that and want to wear that as well. Why should they be forced to wear dresses/shirts and ties when their friends get to enter in street clothes? Would you let them just all hang out in the back pews where they can quietly play their Gameboys or Digimon? None of that is destructive behaviour, but it is not allowed in Church either.

Now I completely understand the issues of teens and how peer pressure can and will affect how they act. But this is why it is important for them to have nudist peers at nudist parks. Nudist peer pressure is what is needed. And that goes for reluctant spouses as well as reluctant children/teens.

As I stated before, it only becomes a problem when it becomes a problem. If the parents, members, and management have no problems with the clothed teens, then there is no problem. But when enough people become uncomfortable with them, then something needs to be done to get them to denude more often.

Bob S.

[Nudony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Some ways for parents to enforce nudity would be to take the clothes away from their children and just simply tell them to go out naked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know...could this approach work? Maybe. But if it doesn't work...you could be looking at a disastrous backlash.

But then...isn't it a widely recognized fact that a high percentage of nudist-raised kids drop out of nudism upon, or right after puberty anyway? I think the root of this problem is when a couple's child(ren) start showing reluctance at being nude, and the parents still take him/her anyway (I've seen it happen). What they should do is discuss the issue with the child, in the comfort of their own home, and assess whether it may be time to leave the child home... Rather than saying: "You need to set a good example and get naked out there like everyone else!", saying "what you need to understand is that nudity is expected; but if you feel uncomfortable with the situation, we're going to have to make arrangements for you to stay home..." is probably going to work much better for everyone.

It's a sad reality that I've often discussed with other nudist parents. I can't count the number of times I've heard something along the line of: "I just don't get it. Just a couple of years ago he/she never wore as much as a stitch around the house. Now I can't even get him/her to come skinny dip with us in the backyard....at night!" It's a frequent reality, and I personally know that it's a hard pill to swallow. But if someone's kid doesn't want to go nude at a resort anymore: they should let it go. By taking him/her anyway, they are adversely affecting not only their child, but also other people's children.

Just 2 cents from a father who's also had to "let it go..."

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob S.:
"Adults "enforcing" nudity among adolescents? Not cool."

How is that "not cool" WN? If the teens were to all don swimsuits and start to go swimming, should they be allowed to do that?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course not. That's why bathing suits aren't permitted at nudist parks.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Some ways for parents to enforce nudity would be to take the clothes away from their children and just simply tell them to go out naked.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
They are at a nudist park, so by implicitness, they have the expectation of nudity.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quite often they are at a nudist park and not by their own choice. Nudism is very limiting for a teen. Most kids that age would rather be off with their friends and not at the park with Mom and Dad.

Teens have their own interests. That is NATURAL -- when kids reach 13-14 or so, some call it "rebellion" but it is NOT that. They develop their own tastes in food, clothing, music, arts, intellectual pursuits - which may or may not be those of their parents.

Now, some teens lurking in here might think, "WOW! NUDIST CAMP! WOW!" You will note that one of those arguing against what I'm saying has never been to a nudist park or even a social nudist situation himself!

But put it this way - to a teen who grew up as a kid in a nudist park, the nudism isn't a big deal. It is a big deal when he/she has to leave his or her friends that they pal around with in school, and during the week, and schlepp off to camp where there may only be a handful of kids -- who have nothing in common with them besides being in a nudist family -- and where there are usually no activities.

Of course, if you make the assumption that hanging around with friends from school or town is bad, then I have no answer for you. My high school friends were and are good people. Choosing one's friends is far more critical than pants-on-or-off.

If the kids don't want to go, it's not misbehavior, it's not rebellion, it's that they'd rather be doing other things that aren't necessarily destructive.

I grew up in the greater Boston area. Had I been raised in a nudist family -- at the age of 16 on a summer weekend, my friends would have been participating in one or more of the following options =

- a Red Sox game?
- how about the Summerthing concert series? Or, <name the artist> is performing at the Back Bay Theatre.
- we're gonna pile into the car and go surfing at (name one - Narragansett, Newport, Hampton Beach)
- after we surf, there's a dance at the Hampton Beach Casino...
- we're gonna go up to the White Mountains, picnic and hike
- to the movies (we didn't have malls) with a group, perhaps that nice girl next door?

"NO- LURK--- we're going to camp. There will be one or two kids there, maybe."

"But Dad, the two kids there are people I don't really have anything in common with. And my friends are doing (one of the above). Why do I have to go? I can't even invite them to that stupid camp. And all you guys do is drink beer and play cards."

Is it any wonder why nudism is losing its families?

As far as the wearing t-shirts in church argument, well -- as a Christian, church and nudist parks are two different environments, to be viewed differently. One is worship, which many of us take very seriously - and we would expect our children to show the same respect or not go at all. Nudism is not a religious activity -- it's a recreational lifestyle.

Although I do go to church at the nudist park I attend --- and it is clothing optional in the chapel...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

The values that would be imposed would mainly be by the CO parent. Even at a CO park, nudity should be considered the state of dress and clothing, if it is causing a problem with others, should be addressed.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you're missing the point. Nudism is not a "value". It is a recreational choice. What is the age where a kid decides he/she wants to be dressed? ANY age.

Wanting to be textile is not a rebellion against YOUR values. It's not a "value". It's like tastes in music or food. If my daughter wants to be textile, likes country music, and doesn't eat foods that we do, it has nothing to do with values. It's thinking on her own.

And more on the "causing a problem" below.

To try to state that this is a loss of values, and will lead to destructive behavior as our keyboard nudist friend alluded to, is what we call an argumentum ad absurdium.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
As I stated before, it only becomes a problem when it becomes a problem. If the parents, members, and management have no problems with the clothed teens, then there is no problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this is the first time in three decades I have ever heard of something like this described as a "problem".
You are the first social nudist that I have ever known who have termed or even alluded to this as a "problem."

And of course, MikeJB, whose social nudist activities to date have not extended beyond this bulletin board.

NOTE TO MIKE - NO - kids did not have more of a propensity to go nude in the 1950s. Forget those "Sunshine and Health" magazines you've seen. Their pictoral displays weren't designed to show nudism as it was. There is a tendency toward locker-room prudishness today. But that's a different issue, and I venture that if kids disrobe to swim they would also not hesitate to shower after football practice.

And as far as "quality time" - I spent plenty of that with my parents. I still do (they're in their 80s now) But my parents would be ALARMED if, at the age of 15-16 or so, I wanted to spend more time with them than with my peers. They wanted me to concentrate on school, and to develop socially, and to have (positive) life experiences. And to be able to make value decisions ON MY OWN.

Nudism might, in the right circumstances, offer a teen these things - but to a very limited and restricted degree. Not enough of them, in my opinion.

If I were home on a Saturday night instead of being off with my friends, they wouldn't be happy. They'd be worried. "There's a basketball game and big dance afterward at Central High, and all your friends are going, but you want to stay home?" ... uh, Lurk, what's wrong?

In fact - I'm rather glad I didn't grow up as a nudist. I would have missed out on a lot of positive life experiences.

I can fully understand the "no clothing in the pool" rule. But I've never heard , ANYWHERE in nudism, that kids hanging out together with their clothes on as being something for concern, or something that requires corrective action.

Now you mention White Tail Park -- and DO correct me if I'm wrong on this -- but wasn't that the park that attempted to refuse admission to a fellow club owner at a convention a few years ago, because while that club owner acquired, invested his money into, and turned a failed nudist park business into a fantastic success, he was not a nudist himself?

If this is the case, perhaps the While Tail "values" aren't in the mainstream of nudism?

I've even heard that there are few parks that have a "hazing ritual", requiring first-time visitors to disrobe to take an intro tour. Curious to know - is White Tail one of those?

I've been in social nudism for 27-28 years, raised our daughter in nudism, and have visited (around) 35-40 clubs in North America and Europe. Two AANR conventions. Six Eastern Naturist Gatherings. I have been to Solair several times, and have friends who are members there. I've never been to White Tail, but I've never seen a park owner, nor any parents, nor any club members worried about their adolescents or teens wanting to stay clothed outside of the water.

One of the lamentations we hear as nudists is that sometimes "Problems" are imagined or developed where there is no problem to begin with. Perhaps we should consider "eating our own dog food" once in awhile.

[Walt Iliff]

Hi Folks,

Wow!! Where to begin? As a long time member of White Tail Park, AND as a practicing social nudist for 38 years, I would like to speak once again to this issue. There are hundreds of venues in the US and Canada where people are legally allowed to be nude. Some, like nude beaches and clothing optional clubs and resorts, do not "require" nudity; where others do require it when away from your trailer, motel room or camp site (weather and health permitting). Others require nudity when in the pool/hot tub area or in the water. Still others "require" nudity from adults, but children and teens may stay dressed if they want. And so on and so on. There are many many permutations and combinations. I truly believe that whichever one works best for you and your family is the one that's right for YOU. I am comfortable with the nudity policy at White Tail Park, but it may not be for everyone. That's ok....Avalon is close by. Arguing whether a club should be clothing optional, or whatever is specious at best....if you're comfortable with the policy at YOUR club.....wallow in it!!

Where this thread began was that at a clothing optional club, a few of the teens WANTED to be nude, but others created a negative atmosphere making the situation uncomfortable for the ones that wanted to have the choice to be nude or not. I think that at a club which is supposed to be clothing optional, just as you would want to have the choice to be dressed or not, no one should create an atmosphere where you would be uncomfortable being nude. Especially if you are a young adult or teen. I can only speak to my experiences with White Tail and being involved in the Youth Leadership Camps that when nudity is either required or expected and EVERYONE is nude....there haven't been any problems.

I do however agree with Lurk's assertion that one problem that does exist with our young people is that coming out to the club/resort begins to take a lower priority. At a certain age it seems that car/job/boyfriend/girlfriend/social life/ etc takes precedence over hanging out by the pool with mom and dad and that's understandable, but at least at White Tail, we are starting to get some of our young people who "grew up" at White Tail who are now in their 20's back as members.

If you have kids in the 11-18 range who visit clubs and resorts, consider sending them to one of the Youth Leadership Camps next summer. There is the FANR camp, AANR East, MSA is planning a camp, AANR West will be having one also. Dates and places will be announced.

Walt Iliff

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
MikeJB...I agree with you for the most part. We would like our kids to have their own minds. But in the same token our kids who are both preteen, want dearly to "fit in". That is the age group.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That doesnt mean they should feel they have to alter their lifestyle significantly and be friends with the delinquents just to be cool. Theyd be better off without friends than hanging out with a crowd of people who are prone to do things that would get them hurt or in trouble. Also you wouldnt want them to try to become a whole new person just to please their friends. Real friends would accept them as is and they wouldnt need to feel they have to change. They shouldnt have to change for anyone and if they do then that kind of a friendship isnt really a friendship and its not worth it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
What were your experiences as a kid? Is there reasons you feel so strongly?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I was younger id tend to wanna hang out with all the "cool" kids and I thought they were really good friends and I tried really hard to be like them. Turns out they didnt end up being really good friends and I saw them do stuff that might get me into trouble so I decided to get away from those type of people and go make some real friends who liked me for who I was. Thats why im so insistant that teens try to find friends who accept them as they are and who really are friends and not just some punks like the type of people I got stuck with at first. I dont want em to find out the hard way that those people areint good friends *not saying i got in trouble or anything but had I stayed with those people I very well could have*.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
My parents took me away from the neighborhood every weekend for the same reasons you stated, and I am grateful now.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats good, many parents now dont seem willing to do that either out of laziness or they just dont wanna cause problems with their kids and instead they just let em hang out with the people around the neighborhood and their lives get ruined because of it and the relationship with their families basically goes down the toilet.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
We are very involved in all aspects of our kids lives, they will not get the chance to go astray...but we will still like them to be happy with who they are.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its good that you can keep that sort of balance with them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It is tough for both of us as their are no instruction manuals with kids and each kid is different. That is why we ask so many questions to other parents.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A good parent doesnt need an instruction manual anyways. They just do like you do and ask other parents about stuff and just treat each kid accordingly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I did want my daughter to think on her own.

I wouldn't make decisions involving clothing at a nudist park for her.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would think that youd still want to encourage her to be nude if she goes to a nudist park with you though.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Peer pressure? Ya sometimes gotta go along to get along. If Mom and Dad like nudism and the kid (teen years) doesn't, the decision has to be respected.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont like the idea where a parent just has to respect a teen's decision just because some lowlifes at school pressured him/her into thinking that way. If it was their own choice of their own free will, thats something different but honestly when it comes to clothing these days, thats hardly the case most of the time. They need to make their own decisions and not have some dweebs at school making it for them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
When you talk about "many more kids were nude before" -- first of all, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN INSIDE A NUDIST PARK. Forget about what you saw in those old nudist cheesecake magazines from the fifties and sixties. Grandpa's cache of nudist magazines, profusely illustrated with attractive nude women aged 15-35, did not give an accurate PICTORAL reflection of nudism in those years.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just looking at everything as a whole it seems that in the past, younger people have been more inclined to be nude then than they are now with all the conservatism sweeping the country and with all the pressure from other younger people to cover up and be ashamed of their bodies. You dont have to go to a nudist park to understand that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Having been in nudist park culture for almost 30 years, I can tell you that the "teen reluctance" has existed for at least a generation. Those that were there before me, inform me that the situation has been the same.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont deny that it has existed for some time, but I do beleive that it has probably increased more recently than it has in the past.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I personally know nudists that were there in the 1940s -- they report the same.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would depend on the sort of people you talk to and the types of places they frequented. Some nudist parks have very different situations reguarding younger people than others.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Those "textile prudish bozos" are the majority. It's not a nudist park world. And people interact with others besides nudists. You have to raise your kids with an eye toward the world at large.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really dont care about the majority. If the majority went and jumped off a bridge, should your kid join them? I didnt think so. Unless they can get to know textiles who are willing to accept them as they are and do not pressure them to change who they are or do things that might hurt them or get them into trouble then theyre better off just knowing nudists and saying the heck with everybody else, because its better to know few people who actually like you and accept you than know alot of people who dont really give a damn and hate your guts.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Mike, do you have any kids? We know that you're dispensing nudist advice, without having ever been in social nudism. How many teens have YOU raised?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You forget, I was a teen once myself so I think I have a pretty good idea what theyre like and what best way to deal with em. I would love to raise a kid someday simply so I could raise them differently and say that my kid is actually better than alot of the little delinquents that are out there today. I mean I am just very dissapointed in the sort of future citizens of this country that alot of parents are raising these days. There is just no love or respect in them for themselves or others and most of them are lucky if they even get through school and dont end up in jail.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Have they been successful in life? And their morality? I like to think my daughter has been wildly successful in her adult and professional life.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean sucessful or just popular or "cool"? Theres a difference. People these days love to say just because youve got alot of lowlife friends and have alot of dough in your pocket that youre somehow sucessful just like all of the other people out there who actually have decent friends and have actually had to work through life instead of just having their sucess handed to them.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
But , Mike, with your philosophy - "parents must follow their parents' ways" -- how did your kids turn out?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont have kids but I basically want them to learn from stuff ive been through and actually turn out better than me when they get as old as I am. I dont want them to turn out like alot of the trash you find in the local high schools these days. I went to school with alot of these fruitloops and let me be the first to say, I wasnt very impressed. I do not want kids who end up like that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Kids must "fit in" to a degree to survive.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didnt necessarily "fit in" to the extent that some of my other classmates did but hey im still here so I think I survived well without being one of the homeboys. It is possible but these kids today are just so brainwarped its just crazy trying to convince them of that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It is important for their social survival. This does not mean they have to get drunk, use druge, etc. or as MikeJB was crudely expressing, get laid -- but they must conform to a degree.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats all it seems that the cool kids do these days is get drunk and laid so how can good honest kids be expected to conform and not end up like this? If thats the only alternative, theyd be better off without any friends at all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Not too many kids have the intellectual or reasoning skills to be a complete non-conformist that the fictional Daria Morgendorfer had. Of course, she shucked her parents' values along with everything else.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah because kids these days are not expected to be intelligent or mature because there are few if any standards. Maybe if they had a few more expectations of them instead of just being allowed to smoke and drunk and hump all day then maybe something good might come out of them and youd actually have some good kids in school that youd want your kids to be friends with. In the past before everything went down south socially, kids were actually expected to be a bit more mature and grow up and could actually get along without fitting in with the delinquents, now kids are so dumb they think thats their only option. Thats harder when so many kids now areint given many other options.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
A trivial matter like keeping your pants on at the nudist park might be a "peer decision" that, as I said, no one - including generations of nudists, and most nudist parents - give a rat's *** about. Only our keyboard-onlym not a social-nudist MikeJB is concerned about it.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe some of us would like to show kids a different way of life besides the sort of garbage they are exposed to at school and on TV. I mean why drag a kid all the way to a NUDIST resort and then let them stay clothed?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
But if it's a matter of "going along to get along" - that's one of those peer pressure decisions that might be a GOOD one to knuckle under to.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it means a kid has to change who and what they are just to "get along" with other people then its not worth it. I wouldnt care if that offends those other kids and makes em bullies to me, if they came after me and tried to beat me up because I wouldnt fit in then id just deal with em and make sure they minded their own business.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It wasn't "Don't drink." It was rather, "We'd prefer you didn't drink. But if you do, whatever you do, DON'T DRIVE and don't let your friends drive drunk". We taught her the dangers of alcohol. We also taught her how to disconnect a coil wire so she could disable a friend's car, if need be.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh great advice. Instead of dont drink, you just tell her that you prefer she doesnt drink but oh if she decides to disobey you then oh well thats her decision, you just hope she doesnt do anything stupid as a result of that. Kids these days dont have the maturity to drink and many of them that find a way to drink end up dead.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It wasn't "don't have sex, ever" - it was "we'd rather you abstain - it is the best course BUT if you don't, you must protect yourself." And the dangers of not doing so.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The best protection IS abstinence. It has worked for me so far. I dont have sex and I havent died yet because of it.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
You instruct the kids on moral choices, and dangers of the wrong ones. You MUST teach them precautions. Given a choice between sheltering kids and informing them on the realities of life, I would advise anyone to do the latter.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its fine to teach them about all the moral choices and dangers of the wrong ones, but there are some things that especially kids these days shouldnt be doing when theyre so young and immature. Maybe it worked for your daughter but it doesnt work for everybody else.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Molding them into your own image is usually sheltering them.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My idea is to make them better than me not turn them into the same thing as me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Over-protected kids tend to have trouble making real-life decisions later on, when they have to. I know several ADULTS who are unable to make those decisions.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can still protect them but also teach them how to make real life decisions. When theyre so young, theyre usually not old enough to make those real life decisions yet but at least if they know how to when the time comes when they are ready, theyll know what to do.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I don't know...could this approach work? Maybe. But if it doesn't work...you could be looking at a disastrous backlash.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So a good parent will be ready to deal with the disastrous backlash when and if it happens. Most likely it wont.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
But then...isn't it a widely recognized fact that a high percentage of nudist-raised kids drop out of nudism upon, or right after puberty anyway? I think the root of this problem is when a couple's child(ren) start showing reluctance at being nude, and the parents still take him/her anyway (I've seen it happen).
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alot of that has to do with the current social climate and peer pressure from their textile buddies more than them actually saying "Oh, ive hit puberty, time to get dressed and feel ashamed of my nude body". I think its fine if the parents take the kids to a nudist resort weither they like it or not, especially if it keeps them away from all their textile buddies who would pressure them into wearing clothes and being ashamed of their bodies. Id rather them stay naked and have a chance to meet other nudist peers who will accept them as is and will actually be good friends to them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
What they should do is discuss the issue with the child, in the comfort of their own home, and assess whether it may be time to leave the child home...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its still the parent's call though, not the kid's. They shouldnt feel forced in leaving the kid at home just because he/she has a tantrum about being naked and going to a nudist park.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Rather than saying: "You need to set a good example and get naked out there like everyone else!", saying "what you need to understand is that nudity is expected; but if you feel uncomfortable with the situation, we're going to have to make arrangements for you to stay home..." is probably going to work much better for everyone.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are some situations in life though that youre not given a choice about and these kids gotta learn this. If the parents feel this is something the kid must do because its good for them then thats something the kid just has to learn to accept, reguardless of his/her feelings about it. Kids gotta do lots of things they dont necessarily agree with or like but theyre good for them nonetheless.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Quite often they are at a nudist park and not by their own choice. Nudism is very limiting for a teen. Most kids that age would rather be off with their friends and not at the park with Mom and Dad.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Having other peers there for those kids to interact with solves this situation and these kids can actually find that they enjoy being there more with Mom and Dad than they do with being around the local inner city delinquents at home.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Teens have their own interests. That is NATURAL -- when kids reach 13-14 or so, some call it "rebellion" but it is NOT that. They develop their own tastes in food, clothing, music, arts, intellectual pursuits - which may or may not be those of their parents.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fine then just find a way to apply this to nudism so that they can enjoy themselves but also be doing something thats beneficial for them as well.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
But put it this way - to a teen who grew up as a kid in a nudist park, the nudism isn't a big deal. It is a big deal when he/she has to leave his or her friends that they pal around with in school, and during the week, and schlepp off to camp where there may only be a handful of kids -- who have nothing in common with them besides being in a nudist family -- and where there are usually no activities.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats why you take them to a nudist park that has youth activities or you simply talk with the other parents and find things for the kiddies to do together so that they dont feel left out. Many of these kids would find things in common with each other if they gave thier nudist peers a chance and actually tried to find things in common.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Of course, if you make the assumption that hanging around with friends from school or town is bad, then I have no answer for you. My high school friends were and are good people. Choosing one's friends is far more critical than pants-on-or-off.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Typically though kids who have a more clothesfree lifestyle have more of a respect for their bodies and respect others more and are more open and friendly than their clothed self ashamed counterparts that have given into the local MTV brainwashed pop culture.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
If the kids don't want to go, it's not misbehavior, it's not rebellion, it's that they'd rather be doing other things that aren't necessarily destructive.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of those other things areint necessarily beneficial for them either. If kids constantly spend time with their friends and spend little if any time with their parents and family that can be just as bad as them going out with their family all of the time and never having any friends.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
As far as the wearing t-shirts in church argument, well -- as a Christian, church and nudist parks are two different environments, to be viewed differently. One is worship, which many of us take very seriously - and we would expect our children to show the same respect or not go at all. Nudism is not a religious activity -- it's a recreational lifestyle.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some people take nudism very seriously and treat it as more than just a recreation as well as they do church. Should a parent not make a kid go to church just because he doesnt want to or doesnt feel comfortable there or doesnt have any friends there?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Wanting to be textile is not a rebellion against YOUR values.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure it is, if you have family with certain values and you expect certain things of your children and they refuse to do as you tell them to do then they are rebelling against your values. Its the same thing if you have a family who eats mostly meat and you have a kid who only wants to eat vegetables and the parents want the kid to have a balanced diet and they tell him/her to include some meat in their meal because its good for them and they refuse to eat the meat then that is a violation of that family's values. Sure you can talk with kids about things but if you have certain rules in your house and you expect your kids to follow them then they better damn well follow them otherwise theyre in rebellion against you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It's not a "value". It's like tastes in music or food. If my daughter wants to be textile, likes country music, and doesn't eat foods that we do, it has nothing to do with values. It's thinking on her own.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If thinking on her own goes against the values you have and you want her to have and if theres a possibility than her thinking on her own could be detrimental to her saftey or health then you would need to require her to do as you wish reguardless of how she feels about it. Nudism has values just like any other lifestyle. Certain music and foods teens like might be harmful to their behavior and their health. Like for example Rap music teaches teens to be hateful and use violence and do illegal things so if the teen likes it but the parent doesnt want the teen learning those things and tells them not to listen to it then they need to obey reguardless of how they feel or like if a teen is eating alot of fast food, that can make them fat and harm their health and if a parent knows this and tells their teen to eat more healthy food then thats something they have to do reguardless of weither they like eating that food or not.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
To try to state that this is a loss of values, and will lead to destructive behavior as our keyboard nudist friend alluded to, is what we call an argumentum ad absurdium.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would gladly expose a teen to the nudist lifestyle before I would EVER expose them to some of the crap that most textile teens endure today. Id rather take them to a nudist resort and have them meet friends that accept them for who/what they are rather than just leaving them at home to go over to their homeboy's house and play GTA 3 *Grand Theft Auto*.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
NOTE TO MIKE - NO - kids did not have more of a propensity to go nude in the 1950s. Forget those "Sunshine and Health" magazines you've seen. Their pictoral displays weren't designed to show nudism as it was. There is a tendency toward locker-room prudishness today. But that's a different issue, and I venture that if kids disrobe to swim they would also not hesitate to shower after football practice.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe not but their attitudes towards nudity and their own bodies were quite different than now, also the social culture itself was alot different than it is now. There were also alot less hoodlums in this part of the country back then than there are now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
And as far as "quality time" - I spent plenty of that with my parents. I still do (they're in their 80s now) But my parents would be ALARMED if, at the age of 15-16 or so, I wanted to spend more time with them than with my peers.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldnt, id think that would be great. I dont think teens should neglect their friends, I simply think they should find the right kind of friends and be able to balance out the amount of time they spend with their friends with the amount of time they spend with their family.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
They wanted me to concentrate on school, and to develop socially, and to have (positive) life experiences. And to be able to make value decisions ON MY OWN.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Having positive feelings towards nudity and the body and others in general can help with doing good in school and having positive social experiences, which many can be found in nudist parks as long as youre at one that has things for other younger people to do and theres enough of them to do stuff with.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
If I were home on a Saturday night instead of being off with my friends, they wouldn't be happy. They'd be worried. "There's a basketball game and big dance afterward at Central High, and all your friends are going, but you want to stay home?" ... uh, Lurk, what's wrong?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didnt always go to games or school dances in high school, my parents didnt care.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
In fact - I'm rather glad I didn't grow up as a nudist. I would have missed out on a lot of positive life experiences.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That might have been true for you but I doubt thats true for eveyr person out there who has grown up as a nudist. Many have found it to be a very positive experience.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I can fully understand the "no clothing in the pool" rule. But I've never heard , ANYWHERE in nudism, that kids hanging out together with their clothes on as being something for concern, or something that requires corrective action.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If 98% of the kids are hanging out clothed and doing it 24/7 everyday at a NUDIST park then yes there is a concern. Even if they do that at a c/o park and are not taking advantage of the clothing optional aspect and even taking any clothes off, id be concerned. It would make me wonder how these kids were raised and why the hell theyre at the nudist park in the first place and why their parents areint encouraging them to join in on the nudism like everybody else. Ive heard of many nudists who missed out on nude experiences as kids and then regretted it later when they became adults and wished someone had pushed them more to have more nude experiences. Many teens when they get older would probably THANK their parents for MAKING them be nude and allowing them to experience things they otherwise would not experience.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I've never been to White Tail, but I've never seen a park owner, nor any parents, nor any club members worried about their adolescents or teens wanting to stay clothed outside of the water.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would concern me. If nobody cared that their teens or kids were never nude outside of the water at a NUDIST resort.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Walt Iliff:

I do however agree with Lurk's assertion that one problem that does exist with our young people is that coming out to the club/resort begins to take a lower priority. At a certain age it seems that car/job/boyfriend/girlfriend/social life/ etc takes precedence over hanging out by the pool with mom and dad and that's understandable

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I, again, don't view that as a "problem", either. It's part of the natural course of growing up and moving from childhood to adulthood.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

If you have kids in the 11-18 range who visit clubs and resorts, consider sending them to one of the Youth Leadership Camps next summer. There is the FANR camp, AANR East, MSA is planning a camp, AANR West will be having one also. Dates and places will be announced.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a good idea - BUT - I think the 15-18 range is probably out of it...life at large takes over. The youth camps might have an effect by keeping the adolescent group in a little longer -- but the most enthusiastic 13-14 year old will drift into "life at large" in a year or two.

I don't know too much about White Tail, except I do know three things -

1) They cater to families
2) They have a stringent nudity-when-practical culture and
3) They have events for families

I think the Youth Camp program might be too little too late. AANR's focus on marketing to empty-nesters, retirees, and showing off resorts that AREN'T family oriented as the "gems" of AANR's empire, is catching up to them now.

If AANR goes back to its roots - selling American nudism as something that can be inexpensive, can be fun, you're going to meet a lot of great people, and your kids will love it -- then the membership might kick up again.

But as long as they take the press out to Desert Shadows and Paradise Lakes and Caliente and proclaim "this is what nudism is like" -- it's not going to bring the families with kids back.

And IMHO the "Youth Camp" program isn't geared toward attracting families to nudism, but geared more to draw publicity to AANR itself.

If they want to bring families and kids into the fold and retain them, they have to market to them.

[Bob S.]

"Quite often they are at a nudist park and not by their own choice. Nudism is very limiting for a teen. Most kids that age would rather be off with their friends and not at the park with Mom and Dad."

That is so true, lurk. I have always asserted that nudist teens and children should have peers there. In order to get them at the nudist park with the expectation of having fun, they must have a peer group waiting for them.

I don't see their reticence to go as a "problem" or rebellion per se. The problem with that would be not having teens at the nudist park to hang out with other teens. And parents should make sure that their children do have a wide enough social life that the teens are comfortalbe with.

"I think you're missing the point. Nudism is not a "value". It is a recreational choice. What is the age where a kid decides he/she wants to be dressed? ANY age."

That is your opinion. I consider nudism to be an essential part of my philosophy of my life and therefore, it has risen to the level of "value." But that is not the point that WN was making and I was disagreeing with. He suggested that it is a fight between two sets of parents and ther parenting values. Who gets to win? In a CO park?

By the way, I could reword your phrasing that "Christianity is not a value. It is a religious choice." Or replace Christianity with any other religion. Sets of beliefs are not just religious and values are not just for religions.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

And this is the first time in three decades I have ever heard of something like this described as a "problem".

When anything gets to the point that someone or more than someone complains, then it becomes a problem, lurk. I consider it a problem when any teen feels socially intimidated to do something they would rather not do. erc's and krc's daughter wanted to remain naked, but the other teens were clothed and she felt social pressure to don her clothes.

If you went to a CO park and saw that everyone else was dressed, you might feel some social intimidation to put your clothes back on, especially if people were looking at you funny.

This is not an argument (at least from me) about whether the kids should accompany their parents nor is it about how involved they are in nudism. Those are choices that should be made between the teens and their parents. Nudism should not be averse to their socialization.

"Now you mention White Tail Park -- and DO correct me if I'm wrong on this -- but wasn't that the park that attempted to refuse admission to a fellow club owner..."

I have no idea. I have never heard about that.

"I've even heard that there are few parks that have a "hazing ritual", requiring first-time visitors to disrobe to take an intro tour. Curious to know - is White Tail one of those?"

I went on their open house. We registered clothed, watched the video clothed, and then the tour guide asked the group if anyone wanted to disrobe for the tour. One person in about six of us did. The rest of us were clothed. I have seen other clothed tours since then.

"I've never seen a park owner, nor any parents, nor any club members worried about their adolescents or teens wanting to stay clothed outside of the water."

So in those instances, there was no problem. "It is not a problem until it becomes a problem." If no one sees it as a problem, then it is not a problem. When people start to see it as a problem, it is a problem. I'm not stating here that teens should absolutely be naked all the time. But I am questioning why the rules don't always apply to them and I have offered suggestions to get the kids to undress without any force.

The way to get kids to be naked at a nudist park is to give them a reason to do so. That is as simple as I can make it. Getting them there is another story and yes, AANR and the nudist parks need to do better marketing.

Bob S.

[krcNY]

I just wanted to add a little more information about Solair.

They had activities for the kids everyday. There seems to be something for everyone. The kids would go and participate in the activity, then get dressed again. I was amazed at the things they put on for the kids.

Even though my daughter felt the need to wear clothing....both kids want to go back. They made many friends and will miss them this winter. Last time we were there, we had them collect emails, phone #'s or IM's so they can converse with these kids over the winter. They are a great bunch of kids and our kids will be in contact with them during the winter months.

BrianNY does not live too far away from us, so we will be getting together on a regular basis. He has great kids and we look forward to visiting with them. BTW, BrianNY and his wife are great peopole too http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:
[QUOTE]


That doesnt mean they should feel they have to alter their lifestyle significantly and be friends with the delinquents just to be cool. Theyd be better off without friends than hanging out with a crowd of people who are prone to do things that would get them hurt or in trouble. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess this argument is never going to end.

First of all, not *if* but WHEN (remember - unlike you, we ARE social nudists) our daughter accompanied us to a nudist park - WHEN she wanted to wear clothing, it was not a concern for us. Or anyone else there. I guess you feel that all teenagers should be nude all the time at the park. So be it. My thought is let them choose, it's no big deal.

One thing, as an aside - if the day comes when you actually have the courage to go to a social nudism situation, don't go complaining about teens wearing their clothes there, OK? A first timer complaining "how come that girl isn't nude?" -- well, that will almost definitely lead a first-time visitor to the egress.

Second - your reasoning is based on the fact that "peer pressure" is always negative. Given the language you're using - "lowlifes", "delinquents" - I believe that's your assumption. It's WRONG. Most kids are good kids and want to do the right thing - so long as the parents have infused values of right and wrong. Wearing one's pants in a nudist park or not doing so is not a "right or wrong' judgement worth worrying about.

If kids are permitted to mature and use their own judgement - with good parenting guidance and examples - they WILL adopt positive life values if they wish to do so. And will choose friends that do the same thing.

Believe me, I grew up in a city that had both bad AND good. My best friends in high school turned out to be -

- a medical doctor
- an attorney
- a college librarian
- a high school counselor - who had a previous career as a television script writer
- a male nurse
- a guy who runs his own print shop business
- a guy who runs his own construction business (had to give up teaching, because his business approaches several levels deep of six figures, But he still coaches wrestling.)
- an inventor, businessman, and real-estate manager (all in one)

I'm a computer analyst and teacher. I think I did all right.

None engaged in criminal activities, that we're aware of. One guy in the above veered from the straight and narrow and we straightened HIM out.

When we were junior high age -- there were some among our number -- not in the above -- who became criminal. But we DUMPED THEM -- because they weren't cool to us.

Some of those we avoided went to jail. Some were involved with drugs. Some are dead.

ALL of us went on to college, most of us did some graduate work.

I sense that you weren't so fortunate. Judging by the terms you use -- "lowlifes" , etc. I was quite fortunate because I had the judgement to do the same. My parents respected that, because I would usually do "the right thing."

I won't bore you with the successes of my college/university peers.

My daughter grew up in a community as I did. She managed to separate the good from the bad.
She had a boyfriend -- for a VERY brief period of time -- who was a "bad apple" -- and she drop-kicked him. Those that she chose as friends did go on to successful things -- ALL of them...an insurance manager, a nurse, a special needs teacher, a professional photographer, a phys ed teacher, and even a professional athlete!

So if you assume that every kid is bad, or the aggregate collection of kids in a community at large is a bad thing, then I don't have an answer for you. You can lock your kids down until he/she's 18, but the ensuing lack of judgement will leave them worse off.

I know one nudist parent who did exactly that. I won't go into details. Needless to say, it backfired.

And as others seemed to agree - a teen's overall social development is critical. Some will find it better to be taken out of their community, some will find it better to make their choices within that community, because the preferable choices are there.

You said (I'm paraphrasing) that the "cool kids" wanted to only get drunk and laid.

Not where I come from. The cool kids wanted to go to college or trade school. The "cool kids" in my high school class became doctors, lawyers, pilots, editorial cartoonists, dentists, teachers, police officers, engineers. Etc. etc. -- they were "cool" then and are still "cool" now. There were a few chronic boozers and "druggies" - but they were the outcasts.

Now = to learn more about nudism = READ MY TAGLINE.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Lee:
I agree that a nudity required camp/resort could inspire a reluctant spouse to try nudism for the first time. (clothing optional won‘t inspire) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Clothing optional" permits the reluctant spouse to observe before taking the plunge.

This is why most nudist parks will allow the reluctant party to visit without pressure. Without that option, many wives and girlfriends wouldn't set foot in the situation and neither would their male partners.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usuallylurk:


"Clothing optional" permits the reluctant spouse to observe before taking the plunge.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So do most nude resorts! And she will see a higher percentage of nude people.

[RunningNude57]

I believe that clothing optional resorts would permit those that take social nudity seriously to be there w/ their significant other and/kids who may not feel quite "OK" about it. Don't believe that gawkers would go to a clothing optional resort. However- a clothing optional beach invites gawkers and there would be a higher number of clothed people and it may be an unsafe situation (as we saw on one of the last INA videos where they were reporting rocks being thrown).


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usuallylurk:


"Clothing optional" permits the reluctant spouse to observe before taking the plunge.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So do most nude resorts! And she will see a higher percentage of nude people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[usuallylurk]

Regardless of whether a club or group calls itself "clothing optional" or "nudist" -- a private gathering or facility affords one a degree of protection because anyone that misbehaves is subject to getting the boot.

Translation = go to a nudist park or club gathering, act inappropriately, and you're history. And the word gets around to other groups and clubs in the area.

It has a deterrent effect.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I guess this argument is never going to end.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like to call it a debate, not an arguement.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
First of all, not *if* but WHEN (remember - unlike you, we ARE social nudists) our daughter accompanied us to a nudist park - WHEN she wanted to wear clothing, it was not a concern for us. Or anyone else there. I guess you feel that all teenagers should be nude all the time at the park. So be it. My thought is let them choose, it's no big deal.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the same rules for adults should apply to teens at a nudist park and there should be more things for teens to do naked and more peers there for them to spent time naked with so they will actually have a reason to be nude and not want to leave or remain clothed if they do stay all of the time. The idea of teens being clothed 24/7 at a NUDIST park disturbs me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
One thing, as an aside - if the day comes when you actually have the courage to go to a social nudism situation, don't go complaining about teens wearing their clothes there, OK? A first timer complaining "how come that girl isn't nude?" -- well, that will almost definitely lead a first-time visitor to the egress.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One or two girls being clothed out of the majority really doesnt bother me, its when you get 98% of the entire youth population there being clothed and doing it 24/7 that bothers me. It makes me wonder why such teens would come to a nudist park in the first place and weither or not they have more problems going on with them than simply not wanting to be naked.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Second - your reasoning is based on the fact that "peer pressure" is always negative.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ive found that for the most part, it is wrong. When a teen feels pressured to do something that is different just to fit in with other teens, otherwise those teens dont want anything to do with him/her then I think thats wrong. The other teens should at least talk with that person and suggest things to them but if they decide that they dont want to do it then the other teens need to accept that and either be friends with the person or leave them alone.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Given the language you're using - "lowlifes", "delinquents" - I believe that's your assumption. It's WRONG. Most kids are good kids and want to do the right thing - so long as the parents have infused values of right and wrong.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem is though that the bad kids out there pressure the good ones into doing the wrong things in order to gain friendship with others. Also alot of parents these days dont care about their kids as much because they feel their lives are too hectic and they dont have time to hassle with doing simple things like spending time with and talking with their kids. Beleive me, if spending time with your kids is important enough, no matter how hectic your schedule is, you MAKE time for them no matter what.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Wearing one's pants in a nudist park or not doing so is not a "right or wrong' judgement worth worrying about.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is a right or wrong judgement because theyre wearing the pants at a NUDIST park where it is expected of them or at least should be given the place that they should be naked the majority of the time like eveyrone else. Seeing the majority of teens at a nudist park wearing clothes, especially for newcomers can really turn them off because they expect to see nude people and seeing clothed people there can really hamper those newcomers from wanting to be nude themselves and it gives them a bad impression of what nudism really is.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
If kids are permitted to mature and use their own judgement - with good parenting guidance and examples - they WILL adopt positive life values if they wish to do so. And will choose friends that do the same thing.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even kids who have the best parents who set the best examples can fall prey to peer pressure from other kids if they desperately need friends and those kids are the only ones offering it to them and the only way those good kids get it is to conform then theyll end up doing it even if they were taught good values because to many of them having friends is more important than sticking up for your values, which to me is pretty sad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
When we were junior high age -- there were some among our number -- not in the above -- who became criminal. But we DUMPED THEM -- because they weren't cool to us.

Some of those we avoided went to jail. Some were involved with drugs. Some are dead.

ALL of us went on to college, most of us did some graduate work.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats because you probably had a good balance of good/bad people at your school. Some kids areint so lucky and if all they have is the bad kids offering them friendship and having friends is the most important thing to them then theyll end up giving into that peer pressure and end up getting in trouble and ruining their lives. Thats why unless they have good people who wanna be their friends and will accept them as they are and not expect them to do anything stupid then its better for them if they dont have any friends at all because then at least they stay out of trouble, because those bad people dont wanna be friends anyways, they just want kids to do bad stuff for them and then take the fall for it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I sense that you weren't so fortunate. Judging by the terms you use -- "lowlifes" , etc. I was quite fortunate because I had the judgement to do the same. My parents respected that, because I would usually do "the right thing."
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I was younger I didnt and while I did have the skills to do the right thing, I still was compelled enough to have friends that I did fall in with a bad crowd and luckily I had enough sense to tell that these people werent really my friends after a while and I knew what they wanted me to do was wrong so I made sure I got out of that situation before I got myself in trouble. Thats why I ended up without very many friends but at least it kept myself out of trouble and I think in the long run at that point, that was more important.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
She had a boyfriend -- for a VERY brief period of time -- who was a "bad apple" -- and she drop-kicked him.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alot of girls these days seem to want a boyfriend so much and want someone to love them so much that they'll go out with just anyone and let them do anything to them just so that they can have a boyfriend and feel that someone loves them, even though that boyfriend is a bad apple and what he is giving her isnt real love. its like with these people who have bad friends and give into peer pressure.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
And as others seemed to agree - a teen's overall social development is critical. Some will find it better to be taken out of their community, some will find it better to make their choices within that community, because the preferable choices are there.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That development isnt worth it unless they are able to get to know the right people. if they fall in with a bad crowd, their long term development wont go very far, itll go much less farther then it would if they were just by themselves until they got into high school or even college where most people are usually more civilized. Thats where I met most of my friends that I can actually say are my good friends.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
You said (I'm paraphrasing) that the "cool kids" wanted to only get drunk and laid.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless a kid is lucky like you and is raised in a good neighborhood then that very likely is true of most of the cool kids.

[usuallylurk]

It wasn't my environment, it was the people I chose to surround myself with when the choice was possible.

"Water seeks its own level." When kids reach high school age - their horizons expand (thus, going to camp for the weekend is not a desirable option) -- their opportunities do -- and so do the options for friends.

Regardless of the environment, kids can and do have the opportunity to go in one direction or another. Believe me, I didn't grow up in the nicest of towns, and as I said, a lot of people I know -- and kids I played with in elementary school - went to prison, died of drug overdoses, or had general misfortune befall them.

My father had experienced the same thing, and so did my daughter.

I could choose to hang out with <this group> or <that group>. And it doesn't matter what kind of a neighborhood you live in, if you're in a major metro area there's always a lot to do that WON'T get you into trouble.

While a bad environment might breed more bad apples, every kid has choices. If you surround yourself with good people, and set goals, you will tend to make good choices.

I do hope you get to visit a nudist environment soon. You're in Orange, California, and I see from the AANR club page and the TNS Naturist Network page show that there are, well, a WEALTH of events and opportunities.

It's probably more active than New England.

You should consider taking part. All it takes is a phone call to one of the groups.

[Bob S.]

"I guess this argument is never going to end."

Well lurk, eventually it'll have to. But in the interim, it would be so nice if there weren't so many tomes (lengthy posts).

When someone is talking non-stop, they are told to stop and breathe. Think of the Post Now button as a breath. You hearing me, too Mike?

But in this argument, I'm actually somewhat in the middle of what you and Mike are saying. Mike is being too strict and you are being too permissive.

Your arguments that I do agree with are that the kids should have the ability to be themselves, even if that means clothed. But as I have argued, the issues come when their clothed oersons become a problem for the comfort of those around them, especially the other kids.

Mike's using some of my arguments, but is being way too strict with their implementation. And the kids are most likely not clothed to cause trouble or for any negative reasons, but for their own comfort.

"your reasoning is based on the fact that "peer pressure" is always negative."

I'm glad that you mentioned that to Mike. Peer pressure can be good as well as bad. The bad peer pressure is talked about more because, well, bad news is so much more entertaining.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

""Clothing optional" permits the reluctant spouse to observe before taking the plunge."

The ultimate feelings behind this policy are modesty. Some people are just uncomfortable showing their naked body in public. This is why, especially during Open Houses, even nudist clubs (as opposed to CO clubs) allow some time for the first timers to be naked.

Now modesty can also work in other ways also. People in general don't like to be that different from everyone else. And that is what happens at nudist parks. Their sense of modesty, that they are clothed around naked people, sets in and can give them that much of a push to just remove their clothes to be the same as everyone else around them.

If course, the former feelings of modesty can overwhelm them and make them very uncomfortable. In those cases, CO parks are helpful. Those places allow for the person to get over their nudity modesty more gradually. Seeing nudity without feeling the pressure of having to get naked is what some people need.

So both places can coexist wonderfully. They just cater to people on different levels of nudity modesty by using different forms of situational modesty.

Bob S.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob S.:

I'm glad that you mentioned that to Mike. Peer pressure can be good as well as bad. The bad peer pressure is talked about more because, well, bad news is so much more entertaining.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The peer pressure - and the desire to belong - was always positive for me. I was never pressured into self-destructive behavior.

If I thought something was wrong, I'd walk away... my daughter amazed me with her maturity, because she would ask permission to do something stupid -- and then we'd say NO -- and she'd cry "oh, BABY CAN'T GO"... but she wouldn't ask in the first place if she hadn't felt right about it.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Mike's using some of my arguments, but is being way too strict with their implementation. And the kids are most likely not clothed to cause trouble or for any negative reasons, but for their own comfort.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sometimes when kids stay clothed for "their" own comfort, they dont take into account other people's comfort. Some come to nudist parks to be nude and do you think that theyre gonna feel comfortable being nude around a bunch of clothed people? I think at a nudist park, kids need to take other people's comfort into account as well as their own and if them being clothed makes others uncomfortable then maybe they should be naked. I doubt many kids actually truly enjoy being clothed and are comfortable that way, most likely they simply say they are because of peer pressure or through conditioning from their parents since they were young to always wear clothes. I bet deep down theyd love nothing better than to get those damn clothes off and be naked like everyone else. I know when I was younger even though I was conditioned to wear clothes most all of the time, under all that conditioning, I wanted to be naked and experience nudism and if it wasnt for my conditioning then, id have just said screw it to everyone and went naked all of the time.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I'm glad that you mentioned that to Mike. Peer pressure can be good as well as bad. The bad peer pressure is talked about more because, well, bad news is so much more entertaining.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most peer pressure ive encountered weither good or bad has been more of the type that makes you feel like you must do something instead of being a simple suggestion or encouragement to do something. This peer pressure makes you feel like you "have to" do something instead of you "should" do something or that it would be a good idea to. Even when its good peer pressure, I dont like people who phrase it in such a way that people feel like they have no choice in the matter. Thats just as bad as the people who do that with the bad peer pressure.

[missouriboy]

"I guess this argument is never going to end."

You're learning, you're learning. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[FLslimguy]

It can END very simply... If it's not at a C/O venue, and the place has a "nude is expected and whenever possible" rule...EVERYONE is nude regardless of age, or they don't come there. If kids and teens are not of that mindset, then parents make other arrangements or don't come themselves. When I am at my "nude" resort and a group (that's how they travel) of clothed kids come walking into the pool area fully dressed, I wonder who these "visitors" are ... and maybe I should cover up? I find myself wondering if I should become somewhat anti-social (and sticking my nose in other people's business, which I don't want to do) and ASK them why they are here and to please leave if they remain clothed.

As an artist, I am in a continual, lifelong effort to NEVER become complacent enough to bow to any "peer pressure" and to learn to think for myself. And that began in high school. I also abide by specific rules where I am...and "laws" of sort at the resort. No smoking, no littering, etc. But being a nudist, at a nudist venue, why would I want to wear clothes.

I don't think I'm alone in that thinking.

[FireProf]

Flslimguy,

Those are my thoughts and opinions as well but there seems to be a misunderstanding with many that have posted and the direction of the thread.

This is not about whether there should be one or the other. It's about visiting one first before the other. If being nude with others is something you still are not comfortable with, a clothing optional resort/club is best. If you are an avid nudist, spend most or all of your time nude and are very comfortable being nude around others, nude/clothes free resorts or clubs are more to your liking.

Those of us that prefer nude/clothes free venues do not want to change clothing optional venues to clothes free and we don't want clothes free venues to change and become clothing optional.

The another misunderstanding is that there are an equal number of each of these types of resorts/clubs. From what I've read so far, there really aren't many, if any, nude resorts/clubs, all have some sort of policy that allows clothes to be worn, so this really is a moot point.

and you are correct, you are not alone in that thinking! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[EricNY]

Wow...This Topic created a lot of discussion. I want to thank everyone for their opinions.

I found myself going back and forth again and again.

When I posted this I was a little upset and surprised because of my daughter. Like I said she was SOOOOO exited that she could go to a place and not wear clothes. It bothered me to see her fall into the peer pressure and feel that she needed to cover up. I guess that is just the way it is. I think in time, as we continue to go back that she will break out of that and be who she wants to be.

Later as the post continued, and after my wife reminded me of this woman who was not comfortable getting nude herself, but was there to support her husband. That is the most wonderful thing. The good thing about Solair is that the majority of adults were nude all the time. If it was the other way around I would feel different. I think all parks should allow the wife to join her husband however she is comfortable.

As far as peer pressure on the kids goes. Fortunatly, Solair has enough other kids and so many activities for the kids, that my kids can't wait to go. They would go every weekend if possible. I guess if they are going to be subjected to peer pressure at least they are with their family. I guess it could be worse and they are out on their own somewhere. I am glad we are at least in tune with them, and know where they are, and who they are with. I should be thankful that our kids enjoy the same things as mom and dad, and enjoy the same places as we do too. They will never feel like we are dragging them away from their friends.

It is a good thing. I applaud Solair and all the work they do to make it a family place. I am sure that they will continue to grow and prosper as a family campground

[MikeJB]

I think places that are clothing optional should encourage teens to not place alot of peer pressure on other teens or younger people to be naked or put clothing on if they do not want to.

Allowing kids to make others feel uncomfortable with their choice and making them feel like they must get dressed or be naked should not be tolerated. If a kid feels uncomfortable they should tell their parents and the parents should contact the people in charge of the park and tell them that they need to ask these kids to stop making other visitors feel uncomfortable or they should ask these people to leave. Its not right having families that have kids there that make the other guests feel uncomfortable.

[EricNY]

Mike,

All due respect, but you haven't a clue about kids. Peer pressure (in this case) is not something done with a purpose. It is done just because kids are being who they are. This is life, and the way it is. Kids will influence others just by being themselves.

The best thing to do is let it be. This park should continue and possibly increase the amount of activity that would encourage the children to be nude, (they do a lot already). To do so by complaining to other parents amd to park management would be not only counter productive, it could be destructive.

Solair has been in existence and successful since 1935. They are doing things right and should, in my opinion, carry ov the way they are.At most maybe they could expand upon their teen and children programs.

[Walt Iliff]

ercNY,

Thanks for all your input. I have been talking to Brian about possibly having Solair host the Youth Leadership Camp next summer (the last week in July). If you could work with him and whoever at Solair may wish to help, let me know. I think Billie and her granddaughter would be a big help too if anyone is interested.
In the meantime, thanks for starting this thread, it has been very interesting.

Walt Iliff

Although I can't understand why ANYONE would want to wear clothes when they can be nude, I DO understand that not everyone PREFERS to be nude ALL the time as I do. Unfortunately, although I'm nude MOST of the time I can't be nude ALL the time. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I wear clothes about two times per week when I go out to shop, etc. Otherwise, I'm nude 24 hours per day. I was dressed maybe half an hour today when I went to the store, and that was half an hour too long.

I NEVER wear clothes in a nudist resort. I take them off as soon I'm out of my car and don't put them on until I have to leave. If I'm going to wear clothes I might as well stay home; it's cheaper that way.

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Walt Iliff:
ercNY,

Thanks for all your input. I have been talking to Brian about possibly having Solair host the Youth Leadership Camp next summer (the last week in July). If you could work with him and whoever at Solair may wish to help, let me know. I think Billie and her granddaughter would be a big help too if anyone is interested.
In the meantime, thanks for starting this thread, it has been very interesting.

Walt Iliff </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Walt

I would love to help, not sure what I could do, but willing none the less.

Any suggetions would be appreciated. If you have anything to share PM me and I will give you my email

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
All due respect, but you haven't a clue about kids. Peer pressure (in this case) is not something done with a purpose.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sometimes its done with a purpose, some textile kids can be cruel and at a nudist park they can use that cruelty to target nudist kids and make them feel ashamed for being nude when the majority of the other kids are wearing clothes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It is done just because kids are being who they are. This is life, and the way it is. Kids will influence others just by being themselves.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When those textile kids do things that can have a detrimental effect on the other nudist kids around them at a nudist park then they really need to think about what theyre doing and maybe change their actions. If they see that wearing clothes makes other nudist kids feel uncomfortable then they should take their clothes off because if they do and are nude long enough amongst other nudist kids they might find they actually like it and wearing clothes will not be an issue anymore.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The best thing to do is let it be. This park should continue and possibly increase the amount of activity that would encourage the children to be nude, (they do a lot already).
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sometimes encouragement works, sometimes it doesnt. Best thing I think to do is just have a general rule that applies to everyone. Kids need to be nude at a nudist park because if they are clothed it can make the other nudist kids feel uncomfortable and it can give newcomers a bad impression of what effect nudism has on the younger crowd. Besides having a nude only rule forces kids to learn and accept new things and sometimes if they try it they actually find they like it and want to keep doing it, so having that rule can actually produce some benefits as well. I just dont think its fair that they require adults to be nude but not kids. I mean what age do people think that its okay to just suddenly require nudity over just encouraging it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
To do so by complaining to other parents amd to park management would be not only counter productive, it could be destructive.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If a parent of a nudist kid is at a nudist park and they see that their kid is being made feel uncomfortable because of the mass amount of his/her peers around them that are clothed then i think that parent has a right to say something to someone in the interest of the kid's health and saftey. Besides I beleive that parent would expect the nudist park to apply its policy to everyone, thats the only fair conclusion I can really see them coming to.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Solair has been in existence and successful since 1935. They are doing things right and should, in my opinion, carry ov the way they are.At most maybe they could expand upon their teen and children programs.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe that has more to do with where they are located or the type of people who go there or some of the things they might have there and not necessarily weither they require nudity or not. There are some straight nude only parks out there that do just as well as these c/o places. So it doesnt necessarily have anything to do with that.

[Bob S.]

"Most peer pressure ive encountered weither good or bad has been more of the type that makes you feel like you must do something instead of being a simple suggestion or encouragement to do something."

Peer pressure is about being a part of the group. If there were different groups of teens at Solair, the teens could decide which clique to hang out with. Unofrtuantely, Solair seems to have just that one group. Solair's peer pressure seems to generally have nothing to do with forcing someone to do something, but with a cetain teen having the need to fit in.

"If a kid feels uncomfortable they should tell their parents and the parents should contact the people in charge of the park and tell them that they need to ask these kids to stop making other visitors feel uncomfortable"

Discomofort is incividual and being clothed is not that bad, Mike. Even for a teen at a nudist park. And it was for just a relatively short period of time.

And seriously, do you actually see a teen complaining to their parent that Billy isn't naked? They want to fit in and have friends, not be ostracized for running to Mommy and Daddy, trying to get them in trouble.

"When those textile kids do things that can have a detrimental effect on the other nudist kid..."

Mike, we are talking about being clothed, not doing drugs. Donning clothes for a few hours is not going to have any kind of detrimental effect.

Bob S.

[Bryan and Jen]

I Belive if your at a nudsit resort, you should be nude, that is why we are there. I am old scholl. i belive in true nudism

[Fresh Air]

I feel that kids should have some autonomy. They should not be forced to be nude in front of their peers, just because their parents want to enjoy a nude getaway.

Dan

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Peer pressure is about being a part of the group. If there were different groups of teens at Solair, the teens could decide which clique to hang out with. Unofrtuantely, Solair seems to have just that one group.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They need to make more groups then so there is not only just the clothed group.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Solair's peer pressure seems to generally have nothing to do with forcing someone to do something, but with a cetain teen having the need to fit in.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The teen can still feel like theyre being forced into something when they feel that the only option they have in order to fit in is to put clothes on. The clothed kids need to make the nude ones feel welcomed and assure them that they do not need to put on clothes in order to fit in or there simply needs to be another group of kids for the nude kids to hang with. Otherwise the teen's family should take them to a more family friendly place.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Discomofort is incividual and being clothed is not that bad, Mike. Even for a teen at a nudist park. And it was for just a relatively short period of time.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some kids can feel uncomfortable when they have to wear clothes for any length of time much less be exposed to 98%+ of the other kids around them being clothed while theyre the only ones who are nude. There needs to be more of a mix or a comfortable balance between the clothed and nude kids so that either group can feel comfortable being the way they are.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
And seriously, do you actually see a teen complaining to their parent that Billy isn't naked?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I was a kid and I was at a nudist park and I saw some kid who was wearing clothes there while everybody else was naked then yeah I would complain. That one kid could quickly lead to the majorityof kids being clothed and then youd end up having either a c/o park or a textile park and then there goes your nudist paradise that the rest of us true nudists came there to enjoy without Billy bringing in his baggy jeans and ruining the whole image of the place.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
They want to fit in and have friends, not be ostracized for running to Mommy and Daddy, trying to get them in trouble.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A kid shouldnt feel that their only option to fitting in and having friends is to put clothes on. If I had to go to that much trouble just to make friends then honestly its not worth it. You wouldnt have to do that with real friends, you just stay naked and be friendly with them and everything else just comes naturally.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Mike, we are talking about being clothed, not doing drugs. Donning clothes for a few hours is not going to have any kind of detrimental effect.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its just as bad to some people. I feel uncomfortable just putting some clothes on to go to school, so I can understand how some kid would feel being forced to put clothes on just because everyone else is wearing them just because they feel thats the only way theyre gonna fit in or make friends. Being nude to some people is almost like their religion or way of life and asking those people to don clothes for any amount of time or making them do that is like asking them or telling them to forsake their religion or way of life. So yeah it CAN have a detrimental effect.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I feel that kids should have some autonomy. They should not be forced to be nude in front of their peers, just because their parents want to enjoy a nude getaway.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Them AND their peers should be forced to be naked so theyre all the same and nobody feels pressure to be clothed and then everyone including the parents can enjoy the nude getaway. Thats what you do at a nudist park is be naked. Clothes are and should be frowned upon there.

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:

Sometimes its done with a purpose, some textile kids can be cruel and at a nudist park they can use that cruelty to target nudist kids and make them feel ashamed for being nude when the majority of the other kids are wearing clothes.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike pay attention...these are NOT textile kids.

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:
Them AND their peers should be forced to be naked so theyre all the same and nobody feels pressure to be clothed and then everyone including the parents can enjoy the nude getaway. Thats what you do at a nudist park is be naked. Clothes are and should be frowned upon there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ABSOLUTELY WRONG


The beauty of it is all these kids are there because they WANT to be...start forcing them to do things and you lose that..Having them choose to be there is FAR more important than having them nude. At least they are there with their family. THAT IS IMPORTANT!!

[missouriboy]

To ercNY, krcNY and usually-lurk, can't you see by now that MikeJB wants ONLY to take every line-item statement you make, no matter what it says, and pick it apart with his obnoxious and contentious disagreeable gibberish, no matter how stupid he has to make himself sound in order to do it? For him, it's the arguing that's important, not the subject of the topics, 99 percent of which he has no experience in whatsoever.

He'll spur this stuff on for 27 pages if you let him, so the only way to resolve it is to stop treating his posts as peer-level input, and just ignore them!

[EricNY]

Yep I know, Thanks.

I was finished before he replied, but those two points bothered me. I already decided I was done with him.

Besides I have to catch up with HW's thread http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[krcNY]

I just hope that he is more openminded when he has kids.

We would not have taken the kids to a nudist park if they did not want to go. We were very glad we could go as a family. We all enjoyed our time there.

Uh-Oh! Here we are in danger of another thread becoming about Mike. Remember the one he posted asking us what we thought of him? Well, we told him, but it did no good. Criticism goes over his head. In fact, I would be willing to bet he relishes in the attention he gets even if it is negative. The only attention I ever got from my dad was negative, but it was better than being ignored.

Mike tries so hard to sound as though he knows what he's talking about, but it boils down to the fact that he just wants to argue. He hasn't got the courage to be nude anywhere other than alone in his bedroom and the bathroom, but he tries to tell the veteran nudists here how it is or should be in a nudist resort.

He talks about peer pressure in a nudist resort when for nudist teens it's all about comfort. I must have been the unusual teen since I loved being nude any chance I could, but then I didn't have any friends either. Maybe if I had grown up in a nudist family I would have gotten so used to nudity that it didn't matter any more. I believe that many of these young people have lost their childhood love of being nude and can take it or leave it. Besides, most of their friends wear clothes, and they couldn't be nude around them. If they made friends of only other nudist teens, they would have very few friends.

Most resorts are C/O and not nude only. There are a few that call themsleves nude only, but I don't think they enforce it. If they start forcing people to be nude, they will lose many of them, and it's all about numbers and money.

The important thing is that the young people are going with their parents to a nudist resort rather than spending it with their peers doing who knows what.

At the MSA meeting Turtle Lake Resort had this year there were a lot of teens who spent much of their time nude. It was good to see them so comfortable with their bodies since you rarely see teens nude. They usually get nude to swim and then get dressed immediately when they get out. The teens at the MSA meeting rarely wore clothes. The only problem I had with them was that they hogged the pool table http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. However, they were only there for a week, and I figured I could put up with that until they left. It was the most teens I've ever seen there, and they were a great bunch of young people though a little too noisy for me. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Uh-Oh! Here we are in danger of another thread becoming about Mike. Remember the one he posted asking us what we thought of him? Well, we told him, but it did no good. Criticism goes over his head. In fact, I would be willing to bet he relishes in the attention he gets even if it is negative. The only attention I ever got from my dad was negative, but it was better than being ignored.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats because most of these people who post in this thread know some of what im saying is right and they just cant bring themselves to admit that so they resort to bad mouthing me in some vain attempt to shut me up because they think if they trash talk me enough that ill go away and that they can continue to exist in their happy little world where everybody agrees with them and their short sighted view of nudism. Thats all this is. These are the same kind of people who go onto those political shows and when asked a question instead of giving an intelligence answer they resort to throwing insults at the person asking the question.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Mike tries so hard to sound as though he knows what he's talking about, but it boils down to the fact that he just wants to argue.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The sad thing is the other people here try so hard to shut me up so that they can only have like minded people share their views here so they can feel like everything they say is right because all they ever hear is people agreeing with them because the other people who are on the other side of the fence who want to show another viewpoint are silenced. So dont make me out to be the criminal here. Im not as ignorant as some might think.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
He hasn't got the courage to be nude anywhere other than alone in his bedroom and the bathroom, but he tries to tell the veteran nudists here how it is or should be in a nudist resort.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I DO have the courage, I simply dont have the time to do it right now and I dont really want to have to get into a big discussion with my parents about nudism anytime soon. Theyre not the types that will understand it because theyre brainwashed into the current religious/conservative mindset people seem to have these days. Just because I dont go to a nudist park myself yet doesnt mean I dont understand how some things work there from reading various things online and I can still have opinions about that stuff without actually having done it. This is basically just because people here do not like my views and want to shut me up, it has nothing to do with weither ive been to a nudist park or not.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
He talks about peer pressure in a nudist resort when for nudist teens it's all about comfort.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most kids until theyre brainwashed by our current religious/conservative oreinted culture actually have a natural urge to be naked. It has very little to do with comfort.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I must have been the unusual teen since I loved being nude any chance I could, but then I didn't have any friends either. Maybe if I had grown up in a nudist family I would have gotten so used to nudity that it didn't matter any more.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You seem like you were normal to me, its alot of other teens these days that are unsual when they have this unnatural urge to be clothed all of the time. Im sure your urge to be naked isnt the reason or at least not the only reason why you didnt have any friends.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I believe that many of these young people have lost their childhood love of being nude and can take it or leave it.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats because our corrupted society has brainwashed them into loving clothes and other kids make it really hard for young people to live a nude lifestyle and still fit in. Its just really sad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Besides, most of their friends wear clothes, and they couldn't be nude around them.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They could if they wanted to. If some of them had the backbone to stand up to them and tell them to either take their nudity or leave it. Thats what id tell them. If they wont accept me as is then hell theyre not worth it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
If they made friends of only other nudist teens, they would have very few friends.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least theyd be better friends than their clothed counterparts. It is better to have a few really good close friends than many not so good distant friends. Ive always had only a few really good close friends and it never hurt me. You dont always gotta be part of some big brainwashed crowd just to feel like you belong.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Most resorts are C/O and not nude only.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee, I wonder why that is! Do you think thats a good thing?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
There are a few that call themsleves nude only, but I don't think they enforce it.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They dont enforce it because they dont have the backbone too, its easier just to give into the crowd and follow it like a good little obediant robot and just go c/o than stick up for yourself and say im staying nude only.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
If they start forcing people to be nude, they will lose many of them, and it's all about numbers and money.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats always the myth but I doubt its true. The only people who beleive that are those who are into nudism for the money and not for the beleif or philosophy behind it. If they were true nudists then theyd be nude only no matter what and not care so much about the money as long as they stayed in business. Real nudists wouldnt care if you force em to be naked because most of them would do it without a second thought. These other people who want all this c/o stuff are just a bunch of textile wannabes who are just into nudism for the money and they have no real true desire to be nudists.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The important thing is that the young people are going with their parents to a nudist resort rather than spending it with their peers doing who knows what.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah but the whole point of going to a nudist resort is so you can be someplace where you can go naked freely. Thats the only chance they could possibly get to experience it and experience something new outside of their little brainwashed textile BOX!

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
To ercNY, krcNY and usually-lurk, can't you see by now that MikeJB wants ONLY to take every line-item statement you make, no matter what it says, and pick it apart with his obnoxious and contentious disagreeable gibberish, no matter how stupid he has to make himself sound in order to do it? For him, it's the arguing that's important, not the subject of the topics, 99 percent of which he has no experience in whatsoever.

He'll spur this stuff on for 27 pages if you let him, so the only way to resolve it is to stop treating his posts as peer-level input, and just ignore them!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More mindless insults. I rest my case.

[PascoDoug]

oi vei

[Bob S.]

"can't you see by now that MikeJB wants ONLY to take every line-item statement you make, no matter what it says, and pick it apart..."

And I'm loving every bit of it, Moboy. Give him enough rope, he'll hang himself.

"They need to make more groups then so there is not only just the clothed group."

Teens gravitate toward each other, Mike. You can't force them to make more groups. Cliques just form.

"Otherwise the teen's family should take them to a more family friendly place."

Teens that have their own activities, are allowed to hang out by themeslves in a safe place does not describe a family friendly atmosphere?

"That one kid could quickly lead to the majorityof kids being clothed and then youd end up having either a c/o park or a textile park..."

Solair, where this took place, is a clothing optional park.

"Its just as bad to some people."

No it's not Mike! Nobody would consider being clothed as detrimental as doing illicit drugs. The kids wear clothes in normal life, so those clothes can't have some detrimental effect.

"Them AND their peers should be forced to be naked..."

Guided, not forced.

Bob S.

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:

I rest my case. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If only that were true ...

-Mark

[Unwired]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PascoDoug:
oi vei </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Er zol vaksen vi a tsibeleh, mit dem kop in drerd!

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unwired:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PascoDoug:
oi vei </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Er zol vaksen vi a tsibeleh, mit dem kop in drerd! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed, he should http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

What a shlemeil!

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
To ercNY, krcNY and usually-lurk, can't you see by now that MikeJB wants ONLY to take every line-item statement you make, no matter what it says, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why I stopped. I said my piece.

And I believe with some authority, having raised a child as a nudist, having experienced it for myself, having been in many family-oriented nudist environments (including Solair) with my wife and daughter.

But a guy who has never raised kids of his own, and has not shown the courage to even TRY out social nudism and experience its culture --- is also entitled to his opinion.

Should we argue? No.

Because nudism is a large part of my life and has been for decades, this whole INA board is starting to bother me somewhat.

It seems that too many people are in here -- and some of them for YEARS -- and have never been exposed to or involved in social nudism. Most of the other BBSes, listservers, and Yahoo group memberships are social nudists, or are people truly interested in trying it out.

This board seems to be the only one where a huge percentage of the participants are (and I use this word only because Mike used it) "naturist wannabees".

Don't get me wrong -- this is a great place to learn about the culture, where to go, ask questions, what it's like, and all that. That's what this board is for, and I credit INA for maintaining this set of forums.

But I wonder about someone who has been in here for years but for some inexplicable reason -- is surrounded by nudist opportunities in Orange County, yet has not bothered to go see what the nudist world is really like.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Teens gravitate toward each other, Mike. You can't force them to make more groups. Cliques just form.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just think nude teens at a nudist park need somewhere else to go besides the groups of clothed kids there so they dont feel compelled to put clothes on. Id prefer that they dont have any groups of clothed kids there at all but if they insist on such silly things I wouldnt want the nude kids who just wanna enjoy nudity and be left alone not to feel uncomfortable.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Teens that have their own activities, are allowed to hang out by themeslves in a safe place does not describe a family friendly atmosphere?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah its not family friendly when the clothed kids make the nude kids feel like they gotta dress up to fit in. They should go someplace everybody is nude so they dont have to be exposed to the textile world because thats the whole point of going to a nudist park is to ESCAPE the textile world for a few hours or days. Its kind of hard to do that when half of the kids bring in the textile world with them in the form of clothing that is not practical for the given situation or not necessary. Since people like the word APPROPRIATE so much I really think its only fair to say that wearing clothes is NOT APPROPRIATE at a nudist park, unless youre a newcomer or have some practical need or medical need to wear them. Otherwise its just not proper. If the religious right nitwits can use that excuse for clothing then hey I can use it for nudism too, its only fair.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Solair, where this took place, is a clothing optional park.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well there you go, a place thats going in the wrong direction. I wonder how many years its gonna take to go fully textile and then nobody will be able to go there and enjoy nudity. Doesnt anybody respect the original intent of the nudist lifestyle anymore?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
No it's not Mike! Nobody would consider being clothed as detrimental as doing illicit drugs. The kids wear clothes in normal life, so those clothes can't have some detrimental effect.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those kids HAVE to wear clothes in normal life, its not like they have any choice. Some would rather take illicit drugs than wear clothes! A nudist park is the one place where they have the opportunity to escape wearing clothes and these kids do not take advantage of it and its pretty common knowledge that a freedom or priviledge that is not taken advantage of can be quickly lost or taken away. Theyre not gonna truly respect it until they dont have it anymore and then its gonna be too late.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Guided, not forced.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you "guide" kids to do things, typically they dont do it. Besides that defeats the whole purpose of a nudist park. People go there to be nude. Parents make kids do things they dont wanna do all the time and mostly its for their own good, nudism isnt any different. I would have been grateful if my parents took me to a nudist park and demanded that I be naked there. Of course kids these days dont respect their parents anyways so the only way to get em to do it is to make em. If you replaced making a kid be "nude" with making them eat their veggies or clean up their room or go to school or any of those other things, we wouldnt even be having an arguement here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:

Solair, where this took place, is a clothing optional park.

Well there you go, a place thats going in the wrong direction. I wonder how many years its gonna take to go fully textile and then nobody will be able to go there and enjoy nudity. Doesnt anybody respect the original intent of the nudist lifestyle anymore? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's been there since 1935 Mike. I think they know what it takes to stay open as a nudist facility.

How does that foot taste in your mouth?

[missouriboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob S.:
"can't you see by now that MikeJB wants ONLY to take every line-item statement you make, no matter what it says, and pick it apart..."

And I'm loving every bit of it, Moboy.

Bob S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I know you are. Only you. I bet I'm not the only one who wishes you and Mike would take your dozen-page exercises in futility to the Private Message system, and spare us the tedium.

[krcNY]

I am giving up on this one too! I took the bait in the beginning...now I have had enough.


This thread is turning into something other than what we wanted it to be. We were looking for a little "experienced" help with the situtation for our own family. I appreciate the imput from all who have experienced the situation with their families. This has helped us, with many ideas for our next Nude Venue. Thanks Again

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by krcNY:
I am giving up on this one too! I took the bait in the beginning...now I have had enough.


This thread is turning into something other than what we wanted it to be. We were looking for a little "experienced" help with the situtation for our own family. I appreciate the imput from all who have experienced the situation with their families. This has helped us, with many ideas for our next Nude Venue. Thanks Again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The experienced view I can give is let kids stay dressed if they wish to.

That's about all I can tell you. The fact that the longest-lived nudist parks have permitted this -- and are still around (thinking of Pine Tree, Solair, Cedar Waters, Mystic Oaks(?)) means that the system shouldn't change.

Quite often, people don't like the way parks do business. Solair, being one of the finest clubs, and a cooperatively held club at that, follows the wishes of its owner-members and not outsiders and as Cyndiann said, it's worked for 70 years.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
To ercNY, krcNY and usually-lurk, can't you see by now that MikeJB wants ONLY to take every line-item statement you make, no matter what it says, and pick it apart with his obnoxious and contentious disagreeable gibberish, no matter how stupid he has to make himself sound in order to do it? For him, it's the arguing that's important, not the subject of the topics, 99 percent of which he has no experience in whatsoever.

He'll spur this stuff on for 27 pages if you let him, so the only way to resolve it is to stop treating his posts as peer-level input, and just ignore them! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, there is another way to resolve it.

You stop him from disrupting the board.

I agree, Moboy.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob S.:
"can't you see by now that MikeJB wants ONLY to take every line-item statement you make, no matter what it says, and pick it apart..."

And I'm loving every bit of it, Moboy.

Bob S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I know you are. Only you. I bet I'm not the only one who wishes you and Mike would take your dozen-page exercises in futility to the Private Message system, and spare us the tedium. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It's been there since 1935 Mike. I think they know what it takes to stay open as a nudist facility.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because theyve been open that long doesnt mean a clothing optional park is the best way to go for nudism. There have been other nude only parks which have been open nearly as long and sucessful as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The experienced view I can give is let kids stay dressed if they wish to.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do they experience and learn about nudism then? How do we pass on the nudist lifestyle to our youth when we get old and die? Do we just let nudism die and let textilism reign? If we do not teach kids about nudism and encourage them to experience it then how do we keep the lifestyle alive for future generations?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
That's about all I can tell you. The fact that the longest-lived nudist parks have permitted this -- and are still around (thinking of Pine Tree, Solair, Cedar Waters, Mystic Oaks(?)) means that the system shouldn't change.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because a system has been long lived doesnt mean its the best, sometimes new ideas are thought up that work better and can replace older less effective ones.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Quite often, people don't like the way parks do business. Solair, being one of the finest clubs, and a cooperatively held club at that, follows the wishes of its owner-members and not outsiders and as Cyndiann said, it's worked for 70 years.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah because they probably make sure that the only members they do have are those who are willing and agree to accept a clothing optional lifestyle in there. Theres always some catch to these things. They dont get outsider opinion because that would mean theyd have to hear people who actually disagree with them and god forbid might actually experience new ideas that might be better than their flawed system.

[Nudony]

Ok...I think we've all had our say on this topic; but it is now turning into a flame war.

Can we put this thread to rest? Pretty please! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[EricNY]

I deleted some posts and edited some others.

If anyone wants to add to the topic fine, please do so.

If anyone wants to debate TOS or bannings etc. Please take it somewhere else.

Thank you

[PascoDoug]

A banning can be invoked for any reason deemed necessary. For example, someone who is persistantly annoying and abrasive can be banned without warning or notice.

Also, interpretation of what constitutes a TOS violation is up to the admin and moderators. We do not need TOS lawyers here! Members should not publicly accuse other members of violating the TOS. If a violation is suspected, the violator's post(s) should be reported for evaluation.

And sorry ercNY - we seem to have posted almost exactly at the same time. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I agree.. no further discussion of TOS or bannings here.

Carry on, people (on topic, that is).

[Bob S.]

"Some would rather take illicit drugs than wear clothes!"

OK Mike, I think you're running out of arguments. I don't think you believe the statement you just wrote here.

"When you "guide" kids to do things, typically they dont do it."

Yes they do. At least more than if you force them. If you want anyone to do something and enjoy it, you first have to make them want to do it. That is done though guidance. The activities at Solair for the teens were enough for them to want to get naked.

It is all a matter of positive vs. negative reinforcement. Classical and Operant conditioning. Psychology 101 and basic parenting.

"Just because theyve been open that long doesnt mean a clothing optional park is the best way to go for nudism."

No. It means it is the best way for Solair. Every park is different. Clothing Optional has its place and nudity mandated has its place. Neither is necessarily better than the other.

"How do they experience and learn about nudism then?"

By being there and seeing what goes on.

Bob S.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
OK Mike, I think you're running out of arguments. I don't think you believe the statement you just wrote here.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No really, I think there are some people out there crazy enough who would actually do that. Some people out there really do hate clothes but dont mind taking drugs. Me, I hate clothes and I hate taking drugs so least ill stay nude and be healthy at the same time http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Yes they do. At least more than if you force them. If you want anyone to do something and enjoy it, you first have to make them want to do it. That is done though guidance. The activities at Solair for the teens were enough for them to want to get naked.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, just make em all go nude and then give em something to do and theyll be having so much fun they'll forget the fact that you made them take their clothes off, eventually heck they might even forget or not even notice theyre naked in the first place. That way you make sure they do get naked and they enjoy it at the same time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It is all a matter of positive vs. negative reinforcement. Classical and Operant conditioning. Psychology 101 and basic parenting.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I basically see making kids be nude and then having them do fun things in the nude as the same thing when you make kids go to school and then you make learning fun so theyll actually WANT to go to school and forget about actually being forced to do it. Works pretty much the same way. Nudity and education are both beneficial for kids.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
No. It means it is the best way for Solair. Every park is different. Clothing Optional has its place and nudity mandated has its place. Neither is necessarily better than the other.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its probably the best way for them because thats the only way theyre exposed to doing such things. I just hope with the way society is now that it doesnt hurt them later on. I think that alot of nude mandatory places had people who were more friendly and open to one another than these clothing optional places now do. Being naked actually forces people to be themselves and be open with other people because they have nothing to hide. Being allowed to wear clothes doesnt give people that opportunity.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
By being there and seeing what goes on.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not the same as actually being nude themselves and joining in.

[twldr2002]

There is enough pressure in the textile world for children to remain clothed at all times.

As parents we do our best to encourage our offspring to be clothing free in suitable locations (home, a c/o beach etc).

At a NUDIST park people go there to enjoy being nude in an environment that is safe, secure and with like minded people.

All those in attendance should be expected to be in the nude when it is warm enough to do so.

If children do not want to be clothing free then leave them home with a babysitter. This way they are not forced to be nude.

As a parent I resented the change in my childrens outlook to be freely nude when the majority of the other children remained clothed at an established so called nudist park.

Some clubs that we have gone to 100% of the participants spent the day light hours totally clothing free and this included children of ALL ages, my children then happily joined in and had a great time.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeJB:

Its not the same as actually being nude themselves and joining in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? How would you know?

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Lee:
clothing optional camps/travel clubs/resorts should have 50% nudists and 50% textiles.

nudist camps/travel clubs/resorts should have 100% nudists. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually Jason, even a Clothing Optional campground has much more than 50% At Solair out of a couple hundred there was one that was NOT nude. Most clothing optional places I have been to have been mostly nude. (Of course C/O public beaches may be different)

Whenever I attended the meeting of the members of Turtle Lake Resort, I was one of maybe a half dozen who were nude out of a couple hundred.

[Trailscout]

I visited White Tail Park in Virginia this summer and it seems that their policy of nudity works very well, even with kids.

Private schools sometimes require uniforms for their students and this consequently eliminates the fashion competition that other schools have. Perhaps we can think of nudity as our "uniform".

[NudeDen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Quote from Trailscout
Private schools sometimes require uniforms for their students and this consequently eliminates the fashion competition that other schools have. Perhaps we can think of nudity as our "uniform". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think it would do any harm to kids of the policy was nude mandatory. If they have no activities, though, they will be bored and feel forced into it, which could harm their view of nudism and down the road a few years their veiw of their own childhood. If the club isn't going to have any activities for kids then they shouldn't allow them.

I prefer family-friendly resorts because the people seem more friendly and inclusive. It doesn't have the party atmosphere that other resorts do.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Really? How would you know?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Experiencing things by just seeing them isnt the same as experiencing things by people actually doing those things and joining in and becoming part of it. Its just not the same. Unless those kids get naked and actually join with their peers and do the youth activities at a nudist park then theyre not really gonna find out what nudism is really about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Private schools sometimes require uniforms for their students and this consequently eliminates the fashion competition that other schools have. Perhaps we can think of nudity as our "uniform".
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a good idea, although I do beleive a private school and a nudist park are two different things and what works at one isnt so good for the other. I think nudist parks should require nudity of everybody as its uniform because thats what youre there for and it serves a purpose, having a uniform at school really doesnt serve any purpose and ive found that it just makes kids more rebellious and even more willing to try to wear what they want anyways and see just how far they can go before they are breaking the uniform policy. Either that or they just get waivers and wear their street clothes anyways.

Instead of having uniforms, the faculty at the schools simply need to get tough with these kids and get in their face and tell them that they WILL NOT fight amongst their other students over fashion and that they WILL learn to respect and accept their fellow students as is and treat them as equals while theyre there with them on campus and they need to be really strict with this. The kids dont have to LIKE the other kids or LIKE what theyre wearing but they DO need to RESPECT them and ACCEPT them as fellow students as they are none the less. Kids needs to learn to get along with their classmates at school while at the same time being free to wear what they feel is comfortable without being hassled from anyone.

I dont like school uniforms because they are unecessary and it takes away more freedoms from kids and these days theyve got enough restrictions on them as it is. I think good morals and values need to be taught in school and not a bunch of silly uniform policies or dress codes.

[MikeJB]

Also I think that schools should tell these kids who refuse to get along that they either leave their fellow classmates alone and try to get along with them and accept them or otherwise the school should simply kick the kid out and tell the parents to send them to a different school or homeschool them because schools should not have to tolerate parents sending brats there that only come to cause trouble. The teachers dont have time to deal with animals like that and they need to tell the parents to teach these kids to act like human beings before they send them to school or otherwise just dont bother sending them there.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:

Really? How would you know?



Experiencing things by just seeing them isnt the same as experiencing things by people actually doing those things and joining in and becoming part of it. Its just not the same. Unless those kids get naked and actually join with their peers and do the youth activities at a nudist park then theyre not really gonna find out what nudism is really about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The same goes for you Mike! When are you going to learn what its all about and stop posting uninformed opinions? You aren't a nudist!

I can't believe that went right over your head.

[krcNY]

I was just thinking the same thing.

[MikeJB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The same goes for you Mike! When are you going to learn what its all about and stop posting uninformed opinions? You aren't a nudist!

I can't believe that went right over your head.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont have to go to a nudist resort or be expertly knowledgable about nudism just to be a nudist. Not all nudists go to nudist resorts and not all of them know all of the facts about nudism. You just dont like it that im disagreeing with you or that im showing people here a different view on things. Im willing to bet that if I was agreeing with you on everything that you said, even if what I said was total garbage, then youd be okay with it. You just want everyone to share your view on things.

[Bob S.]

"50/50 ratio of nudists and textiles thats called balance.(50% nudists and 50% textiles)"

Jason, balance is not exactness. Balance is really more subjective than a given ratio. Balance has more to do with comfort levels.

"The same goes for you Mike! When are you going to learn what its all about and stop posting uninformed opinions? You aren't a nudist!"

Mike is an opinionated bedroom nudist, cyndiann. He may not know much about the social nudist life, but he sure says a lot about it.

"I think nudist parks should require nudity of everybody as its uniform because thats what youre there for and it serves a purpose, having a uniform at school really doesnt serve any purpose and ive found that it just makes kids more rebellious and even more willing to try to wear what they want anyways and see just how far they can go before they are breaking the uniform policy."

OK, in this lengthy sentence (and a run-on if I am correct) you have contradicted yourself, Mike, although you admit that you don't see a purpose for a school uniform.

All uniform policies are the same. They have the same principle behind them, to make everyone the same, to put everyone on equal ground. In CO and some nudist parks, the kids get waivers to be able to wear their own street clothes. In CO parks, everyone gets a waiver.

"I dont like school uniforms because they are unecessary and it takes away more freedoms from kids..."

But nudist club uniforms (nudity) doesn't take away from their freedoms? Most of the kids do not have a choice whether or not to go to the nudist park.

"You just dont like it that im disagreeing with you or that im showing people here a different view on things."

No, we don't like your attitude or how you express your views. We also don't like that you are commenting on an issue that you do not truly understand. From your messages, I feel that you do not understand the variety of nudists that are out there. You do not understand parenting, child rearing, or a basic understanding of psychology of children. I get the idea that you think you have all the answers and don't like it when someone else disagrees with you.

Bob S.

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Lee:
freedom2be doesn‘t get it. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
50/50 ratio of nudists and textiles thats called balance.(50% nudists and 50% textiles)
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, that's called insanity.

Why on earth would anyone *enforce* a nudist/textile balance at a nudist facility?

I agree that nudists generally hang out with nudists and textiles with textiles but why enforce it at one location that is SUPPOSED to be nudist? Why maintain two seperate groups? I don't see your point there.

So what if a bunch of the clothed people suddenly decided to take their clothes off? Who would be forced to put clothes back on to maintain the balance? Not me! lol

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">thats your ideal Gawker Heaven you should stay at home. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No.. the textiles can either get nude, stay at home or go to a textile resort.

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Lee:
a clothing optional camp or resort with 75% nudists and 25% textiles or 80% nudists and 20% textiles. the textiles would feel very uncomfortable because the majority are nude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I kinda doubt that - but even if it were so, a textile's discomfort at a c/o facility would be *their* problem to deal with.

Clothing optional facilities aren't around for the sake of the textiles - who already have the lion's share of the planet's parks, resorts, beaches etc. available to them.

[Jason Lee]

a clothing optional beach with 25% nudists and 75% textiles.

I wonder if the nudists would feel moderately uncomfortable or very uncomfortable.

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Lee:
a clothing optional camp or resort with 75% nudists and 25% textiles or 80% nudists and 20% textiles. the textiles would feel very uncomfortable because the majority are nude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell you what. I'll agree that a nudist (or c/o) beach can be 75 nude and 25% textile if a textile beach can be 75% textile and 25% nude.

-Mark

[krcNY]

To me that is why it is clothing optional.

Like I stated in a post pages ago. It seems that many husbands enjoy nudity, but the wives are hesitant. Yet she will come to a C/O resorts and they can both have their way. It is a great compromise. Over time, she will wear less and less and be more comfortable with herself. I think it is great that the opportunity is out there for them.

[NudistGuy47]

I am with you Naturist Mark. If we give over 25% of the c/o resort to textiles, then we can expect 25% at the textile beaches! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Bob S.]

"a clothing optional camp or resort with 75% nudists and 25% textiles or 80% nudists and 20% textiles. the textiles would feel very uncomfortable because the majority are nude."

But they chose to be there, Jason. They went to these places knowing that the dress code included nudity. If the textiles are uncomfortable, they can leave. If it were reversed, the same thing. If uncomfortable, leave.

Discomfort in these arenas are not anything major. Both sides are right. Although in the nudist park, the nudists are more right.

Bob S.

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Lee:
a clothing optional beach with 25% nudists and 75% textiles.

I wonder if the nudists would feel moderately uncomfortable or very uncomfortable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I imagine the nudists wouldn't be too concerned with the ratios. They'd be more concerned with enjoying the beach sans clothes.

[MikeJB]

I think a nudist goes to a nudist park more for than just being nude there, they wanna have someplace to go to escape the textile world and all of its hassles and troubles. They want to be able to be comfortable and be amongst other nudists who are nude and are there for the same thing. If you go to a nudist resort and see a bunch of clothed people there amongst you then youre really not gonna get that feeling and it defeats the purpose of being there. So I think nudists would be somewhat concerned of the ratios. I dont like the idea of textiles invading nudist resorts, if they wanna be clothed they should go to their own resorts where they can mingle with their own kind and not disrupt the atmosphere of the nudist resort.

[NudeAl]

It's been said before their are nude resorts and their are clothing optional resorts. I've been to both and really couldn't tell the difference by looking. My wife prefers the clothing optional resorts because she has been hassled by the management of a nude only resort for not being entirely nude. I understand the arguments for both but I know what I like.

The whole issue of percentages is ridiculous! No one could, or would, enforce this. How could you begin to? I mean you would have to be watching everyone all the time and whenever someone removed or added clothing you would have to force someone else to do the opposite!

One of the things that bothered my wife and me about nude only resorts is that it really seemed to be selective enforcement of the nudity. In other words if you were a regular or lived at the place you could walk around clothed basically everywhere and no one would say a thing to you. But let a newbie or even someone who is a member but just not down there everyday, like some are, go around wearing a oversize T-shirt, to protect against to much sun, or a woman wearing a bikini bottom, due to it being that time of the month, and someone will tell the management and they will say something to you, I guarantee it. That is one of the major turn offs we have.

[FireProf]

NudeAl, I agree with what you said entirely. Percentages are not enforcible.

Nude only resorts and clothing optional clubs and resorts do have their place and cater to both types of nudists. We've encountered that same mentality you did at a nude only resort. We were told no less than 3 times that it was a nude resort and not clothing optional, we acknowledged and then witnessed many clothed members and residents clothed the entire time.

We felt like we were there for their enjoyment at times. My wife and I went into the bar area for a drink while a football game was on and could feel them staring at us. What was strange is that we actually felt like they were looking at us as to say, "what are you doing in here naked.!?"

AS you stated, we did say something to the front desk, they blew it off and gave us a few excuses that we just raised an eyebrow to. There attitude is that if we don't like it, don't come back. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Bob S.]

"I dont like the idea of textiles invading nudist resorts"

Mike, this is not a war. No one invades a nudist park. People just go to them, and other than reluctant spouses, I don't know what other textiles would go to a nudist park.

"One of the things that bothered my wife and me about nude only resorts is that it really seemed to be selective enforcement of the nudity."

Al (and Fireman), selective enforcement is worse than any stable, enforced policy no matter the policy. That probably turns off more people than the actual dress code.

Bob S.

Textiles won't let us be nude on their beaches; why should they expect to be dressed in our resorts or on the nude beaches?

[PascoDoug]

As Bob S. said, the textiles you see at a nudist resort are usually reluctant spouses. Then there's reluctant kids/teens, and those who are interested in nudism but waiting for the right moment to strip during their first visit (or two).

I'm not aware of any nudist or clothing optional facility where a bunch of textiles just show up, setup chairs and have a cookout or just hangout together. Generally, all the "fun" areas at a nudist or c/o resort (pool, hot-tub etc) are nude mandantory anyway.

So basically, if there are textiles present they are there for a reason, and aren't your typical textile off the street who's just there to gawk.

Now beaches are a different matter altogether since they are public land and you can't really control who passes through or stops in to take a look.

[Nudony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We were told no less than 3 times that it was a nude resort and not clothing optional, we acknowledged and then witnessed many clothed members and residents clothed the entire time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow...interesting. I didn't know there were "do as we say but don't do as we do" nude resorts. It seems to me to be pretty hypocritical.

I've been to half a dozen nude resorts in southeast US, and I've never encountered such a situation. Sure, if you hang around the kitchen at 7 a.m, you might see some t-shirt or sarong clad members cooking up their breakfast; but as the air gets warmer and the people start arriving, the clothes also come off.

These resorts you guys went to need to be boycotted.

[FireProf]

We found out that we weren't the only ones complaining to management and the owners. There had been phone calls, e-mails and verbal complaints at the front desk by many others.

Subsequent visits proved to see a change in their attitude and a short but to the point letter in their bulletin board stating that a lax in attitude and enforcing the rules had prompted them to become more strict and a return to adherance and enforcement of those policies.

Troubling thing was that the owners seem to always be dressed, yet as soon as the cameras were on and the resort was in the spot light, they took off their clothes to promote the naturist lifestyle. Since the complaints, one of them is dressed to greet textiles from the outside, the other is usually nude now.

The last time we were there, only the front desk people and the kitchen staff were clothed. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif