Younger People at Nudist Resorts [Archive]

Rik

10-22-2002, 02:53 PM

Alex,
I wasn't discounting an entire generation and in fact my veiled criticism was aimed at society as a whole which finds itself more and more obsessed by celebrity and image.

You say that you don't go to nudist resorts because they cost $30 or $40 but in my experience $30 or $40 is not very much to young people these days. Here in the UK you could easily spend that (and much more) on an evening's drinking, a few CDs, a pair of trainers, a Play Station game or even a ticket to see Britney. Of course, it's a question of priorities but it seems to me that priorities are often determined by peers, celebrities or the media.

However much I may criticize society in general for the shallowness its approach to life there's no getting away from the fact that this is the real world. Although I believe we're still some way from a universal approval of simple nudity I think the naturist movement (whatever that is) has an opportunity to use the media and celebrity to "sell" the benefits of naturism to the world in much the same way that so many other things are sold.

You also said in your post "For many in my generation, taking clothes off is very easy to do physically, but the mind offers lots and lots of resistance." Well I can't help feeling that you've hit the nail on the head! What does surprise me sometimes though, is the extent to which young people flaunt their bodies (and their sexuality) through, for example, skimpy clothing, bare midriffs, visible underwear, nipples showing through clothing etc and yet still need the "protection" of clothing at times when it is clearly unnecessary. Maybe you have a theory about that.

Rik

Bartamus

10-22-2002, 08:14 PM

Thank you all for some interesting responses.
RT is right as always. Naturists that live near
the beach have little need for resorts.
Alex is also correct. A lot of us don't live near
the ocean and would like to visit a world class
nudist resort but may not be able to afford it.
Still, we at INA believe younger naturist wannabes will discover beautiful places like
Desert Shadows with our help..and hopefully the
problem will rectify itself.

Dude in Nor Cal

10-25-2002, 12:16 PM

It's true that most of the nudist resorts are geared towards people who have cash, ie older people. I'm lucky, I've always gone camping since I was a little tike and when I feel like getting naked I go on a hike and find a nice secluded beach by the river. Only in the summer of course. Not much comraderie, but then nobody will hassle or gawk either. If anyone happens to be in N. California this summer, I'll be happy to show you or direct you to some really good spots.

...but now I'm in Cleveland 'till May and being naked outside in Ohio in October is the worst thing one could wish on a person...

So if you're tired of nude beaches 8 hours away and resorts filled with oldsters- go explore.

FireProf

10-27-2002, 08:58 PM

Well, 30-40 dollars is alot of money, but I've seen many young people wearing some pretty expensive clothes and shoes (mainly tennis shoes) not to mention the tatoos and what those cost since I left the Navy in 1975. And how 'bout the movies...you gotta take out a loan to get in and get some popcorn and a drink. But seriously...

What resorts should do, like the movie theaters and other establishments, is offer a student discount for these young nudists. Our goal is to bring in more young nudists to strenghten our organizations...we need to make it more accessible.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

10-27-2002, 10:17 PM

Although I've got daughters older than most of you, if not all of you, please allow me to say a few words.

I could seldom if ever go to the resort here in Michigan if it cost $30-$40. Turtle Lake Resort in Union City, MI is only $20, but I pay $15 with my AANR membership. If I had a nude beach near me, I would rarely go to the resort since my main reason for going is just to be nude outdoors. The only problem with the beach is no hot tub or sauna. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Bob S.

10-28-2002, 06:51 PM

At White Tail Park, they have a student discount at $10 day visit fee for college students 18-25. The normal fee for a non-affiliated visitor is $25.

They even have a student discount for yearly membership at $150. Regular for a single is $340-$460 depending on which membership package you get.

That should be the case in every nudist club. Of course, the key is to attract the college crowd to the park. It's one thing to give them a discount, another thing to offer activities that they would like.

Bob S.

Bartamus

10-28-2002, 07:06 PM

A student discount is a great idea. Perhaps we
could arrange something through INA!

Candy Mejia

10-29-2002, 01:00 PM

Hi, My name is Candy Mejia. I am the youngest manager of a nudist resort in the U.S. One of the issues I constantly address is someone goes to a nudist resort and then assumes all nudist resorts in the world are just the same. People know that there are differences between for instance a Ritz Carlton and a Holiday Inn, but don't realize there are major differences in nudist resorts. So my job is education. Look at http://higbee.cots.net/YoungAdultNaturists/terracottainn.htm
We are a unique place. We have the youngest nudist guests of all resorts in America. We have the youngest owners, and I am the youngest manager at 22, So if you want to meet other young naturists, we are the place to go to. We are also busy everyday of the week, not just on weekends. Naturists always take their vacations with us. Since you came to my beautiful city just for weekend, we would not have beeen able to book you. Our repeat guests always book at least 4 nights or longer on weekends, or come Sunday thru Thursday for quick 1 or 2 night getaways. We are very unusual as a nudist resort in the U.S. in that we can compete for vacationers with the Grand Lidos and Club Orient. And we always have naturists from around the world vacation with us. Their ages range from the 20's to 70's.
We are unusual in that the owners and staff go nude. We are a naturist resort, so our staff loves to go nude. I hate wearing clothes, so why would I want to be dressed at work?

Thus, don't assume that because you went to one place that all naturist resorts are the same, they are not. Just ask questions when you book at a nudist resort so that you know more about where you are booking and won't be disappointed. Candy :-)

Trailscout

10-29-2002, 03:33 PM

I grew up with a certain amount of casual household nudity and I began mixed platonic skinnydipping at age 21 in local rivers and lakes.

At that age I heard of nudist resorts, but had no idea where they were located nor did I understand why people would even want to be lounging about in the nude in such a public manner. I never met anyone who could answer questions and invite me. I wondered if nudists met for group sex behind those high walls. I wanted no part of that.

I was content just to discreetly roam the woods and swim in the nude alone or with friends.

INA and some Christian nudist Web sites educated me last year about the generally wholesome nudist lifestyle and I jumped in with both bare feet, visiting several resorts, a nude beach, an athletic club with a nudist night, a non-landed nudist club, and a private nude campground.

Thanks INA and others for showing me what I had been missing all those years!

10-29-2002, 08:54 PM

It was INA and their Photos of Freedom that gave me the courage last year to try social nudism for the first time. I found out from the photos that I look no worse than most men do nude. I'm very thankful to this website for getting me into something I wish I had gotten into decades ago. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BrianM

10-30-2002, 08:33 AM

I think there may be many reasons why more young people are not active in nudist activities. Not necessarily in order, because it may vary from person to person, but in general, this is my experience:
1) There are few legal places or activites that that appeal to young people and limited public acceptance of topfredon and nudism in this country. I have seen young people at public nude beaches, but why would they go to a nudist resort? Would normal young people go to a camp ground to sit around all weekend, if all people were clothed there?
2) Education - I look for pro nudist things on TV, even late night sometimes, and it doesn't exist. Shows like Wild-On on E! always show nude areas from a sexual or perfect 10 body perspective. The travel channel is a little more objective, but little content there. So basically, people growing up do not know that it is OK to be nude, and maybe do not know about all the nude opportunities.
3) Young people have very immature thoughts, and cannot put this whole thing in perspective. Now, I know that all the young people reading this will bash me for this, but I was younger not so long ago, and have a very clear memory of those times. While tough outside, I was insecure, and while seemingly mature for my age, I had a wierd homelife and very confused thinking about many things. Most things revolved around how I would ever score some sex, or how could I ever make a living or how could I rise to the top of the social ladder, not how could I be relaxing nude somewhere.
4) Young people are very insecure with their bodies. They are tought that they are objects for sex, by the media (especially) and by their parents, churches, etc. Also, that sex is private, thus nudity is private.
5) Its not until people get near or past the crest of the hill of life that they realize that, hey, I am making it, I do not care what the neighbors or the relatives think and actions become what they want to do, not what others want them to do. They seek out legal and wholesoome ways to get what they want, buy the Harley, grow the beard, quit the job they hate and start their own, go on vacation more. Basically, as people get more mature, some start to get what they want out of life, and if it means relaxing nude somewhere, thats is what they do. Immature and insecure people cannot do these types of things, for fear of failure. Even the younger "extremist" are looking for attention, an insecure condition.
In conclusion, the facilities and activities, education, immaturity, insecurity, and life perspective makes it hard for younger people to enjoy nude recreation. My thoughts are that more nude facilities and activites that cater to young people and education would be the best way to make the other problems (immaturity, insecurity, and life perspective) a non issue.

Croydon

10-30-2002, 06:58 PM

Wow Rik, seems you are so quick to pass judgement about how young people live their lives. Seems that you have forgotten that at one point you used to be a young person.
The reason why you do not see many young people in resorts lies in the fact that there are not many young nudist. Secondly, resorts, espicially the good ones, are expensive. Rik, you say $30-40 (remember we are talking american dollars not UK pound) isn't much money. To a young person, it is a lot of money espicially when you are attending college. I am a Junior in college and would die for $30-40. I only have $5 left to my checking accounting which isn't even barely enough for me to buy a gallon of milk.
Personally, I do not go to nude resorts because I know I am not going to encounter many my own age so what is the point of going? I much rather go to a nude beach where I will come across many young nudist.
Another reason why one may not find many young people in nudist maybe because many young people do not identify themselves as nudist. Perhaps a lot go to nude beaches and only identify themselves as nude beach goers. I think I identify myself as that. Other than nude sleeping, I do not walk around my apartment nude. I think a lot of young people who attend nude beaches are just content with that activity and do not have the desire to attend resorts or even be a part of the "naturist community"..

Bartamus

10-30-2002, 09:08 PM

Croydon: Well said. I think you did the best job
of answering my question. INA is all about nude
beaches and opening doors for younger naturists
at resorts and clubs. That part is taking awhile
but we're working on it. You made some great
points. What state do you live in?

Croydon

10-31-2002, 04:58 AM

Bartamus, I am from a town 10 min north west of Boston, MA but I am currently in college at Syracuse University. I am a Junior, thank god.

I wanted to address something else. Someone said that 30-40 is a lot of money but you see teens wearing expensive clothes and tattoo. You have to remember that young people get money from their parents. Some work and have little expenses thu are free to spend spend spend. When you talk about young adults who are in college or just out of college, $30-40 is a lot. I have a friend who graduated from college a year ago and is literally broke. The bulk of his pay check is used to pay his rent and his student loans. Normally he only has $50 a week to take care of himself.
I have thought about attending a nude resort. In fact, I am seriously considering it as a spring break trip in March BUT I am not so sure since no one wants to go. The friend I normally go to nude beaches with is broke (he is a 27 y.o. naturist) thus he can not afford trips.
Earlier I talked about the idea that many young adults to not classify themselves as naturist but as nude beach goers. I think when I first started out in natrism at the age of 18, I did identify myself as naturist since I went to the beaches and attended the events scheduled by a local nudist group back home. I was even a member of a young naturist group. After a year exploring, I realised I was not really impressed with the "community". I never met any young people my age let alone minority naturist like I. The things I saw still shock me. I once came across a heterosexual couple having sex right on the beach in the full view of others; being the outspoken person I am, I went and told them off. Anywho, after that one year, I realised that full blown naturism may not be for me and nude beaches may just be the niche for me.
When I read the stories of the young adults in INA (my apologies as I do not know their names), I am quite impress. If I were in California, I would definitly join in their campaign. Hmmm, maybe I might give INA a ring if I get that job in CA /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FireProf

10-31-2002, 11:29 AM

Croydon,

I was the poster who wrote about teens, tennis shoes, tattoos etc. Yes you are correct. Many young adults are given,given, given. Our children were not. We taught them to earn those things they wanted. Both attended college out of town. Both worked on campus. And though they did not have lots of money to spend, they saved week to week to do things they enjoyed doing.

Don't you think that a college student having 50 dollars a week to spend or live on could be disciplined to save a few dollars each week in order to go to a resort/club once a month? I know once a month doesn't sound like enough time, but it is better than not being able to go at all. I don't want to get into a discussion were we banter back and forth about "when I was young, my parents...". I think young people now a days want everything right now and aren't as patient as we were taught when I was that age. Saving a few dollars a week with the end goal as a trip to a nude resort/club should be very easy if visiting this type of venue is important to you.

Your experience at the nude beach is not uncommon. My wife and I along with the other 4-5 couples that frequent a So Cal. nude beach periodically have to speak up about the overt sexual activity by some who think because we are all naked, they can act and do things that they would not if they were on a textile beach. Our group had and continuely works hard at keeping our beach a good, fun, family, single, etc, etc. place to visit. But due to the internet and some questionable publications, our beach has ended up on web sites of those who feel this beach is the place to practice everything they would do behind closed doors.

I really think all clubs and resorts are missing the boat here. Most seem to want more young people to attend but are not making it a little easier.. Student discounts and maybe combining student discounts and membership (AANR, tns, INA) discounts would make this easier for the club/resort to attract young people. And if these young adults are put off from social nudity because of what they experience at a nude beach they should try a club or resort where most have strict policies and guidelines about sexual activity.

One last note. My wife and I have been to Terra Cotta Inn several times. My wife, not being a 100%" comfortable" nudist, is very comfortable there. The owners, Tom and Mary Clare and their Manager Candy are very nice people. It is a very fun place to spend the day, day and night, or your whole vacation. We plan many more day visits and are planning a few weekend stays and my wife has even suggested a weeks vacation there. Oh forgot one other special thing about Terra Cotta Inn..their nudist dog GODIVA. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Bartamus

10-31-2002, 08:01 PM

Croydon, INA welcomes you whether you're in
Syacuse, Massachusetts or anywhere.
If you do get that job and move to California..
we'd love to meet you.
Once again I can't argue with the points you've
made. There's no doubt of lot of younger people
who've been to nude beaches may want to experience a naturist resort. We're all about
opening the entire "experience" to everybody.

Bartamus

10-31-2002, 08:04 PM

Fireprof: You are exactly right. Most naturist
resorts would like to broaden their appeal to
younger people but don't make it easier with the
price structures. I heartily endorse a student
discount. Hopefully I can get INA to back me on
that one..I'm sure they will!

Trailscout

10-31-2002, 11:36 PM

BrianM,

You very ably expressed many of the feelings I had when I was a 20-something guy. I think your #2 point about education is number 1 on my list.

The MTV naked beer chugging spring breakers are the only televised examples of young people being nude that I know of. A large segment of society will never buy into that hedonistic mentality.

There is a middle ground of moderation that affirms the body in its natural state.
I would like to see true nudist philosophy brought to the public eye on primetime television, or at least sometime during the evenings in the mainstream media.

Basically the message should demonstrate that casual outdoor nudity is a logical next step in our desire to return to a more natural earth-friendly lifestyle. And I would even like to see Christian religious figures, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox, (maybe even other faiths too) come out and tell people: it's not only okay, it is recommended, at least in your home and in protected areas.

What does the average young person even know about nudist resorts? I have been to nudist resorts that looked like AARP conventions.
Is that what they imagine it is like?

But there are other resorts that have activities and admissions policies that would really attract young people. If only these young folks knew that such "cool" places existed!

As for beaches, when I was in college, I knew that in Europe that women were generally not hassled when they were nude on a beach, but I was reluctant to go to an American nude beach with my girlfriend because I figured that she would be mistreated by a few hooligans.

If we had gone to such a beach with a non-landed nudist club, we would have had the strength in numbers to fend off bothersome people. Only problem was, I didn't know such groups existed. See there's that education thing again!

turkishnudes

11-01-2002, 01:53 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>It's sad but true, but much of what people (especially the young) do and wear these days is determined by the media. Make nudity look hip and cool, get it endorsed by some boy band, then young people (and older people who want to emulate the young) will flock to it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is a boy band on MTV that has been featured totally nude - just don't remember the name.

Croydon

11-01-2002, 03:08 AM

BLINK 182????

Croydon

11-03-2002, 06:23 AM

I hope this forum hasn't stop. This is a very interesting topic and wish everyone would continue talking /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bartamus

11-04-2002, 07:16 PM

Croydon: You're right. This topic is one of the
reasons INA/clothesfree.com. is here.
Corky and I both want to have a student discount
system established at various naturist resorts
so those who are curious can have the experience.
We hope that will come to pass in the future.

nud1

11-04-2002, 11:16 PM

I THINK THAT IN THE UNITED STATES IT HAS BEEN TAUGHT THAT BEING NUDE IS WRONG EXCEPT WHEN SHOWERING OR BATHING IN PRIVATE. OR AFTER YOUR MARRIED WITH YOUR PARTNER IN PRIVATE. AND OUTSIDE THESE PERAMETERS IT IS BAD AND SHAMEFUL.I HAVE TWO CHILDREN IN COLLEGE NOW AND WHEN THEY WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL NO ONE SHOWERED AFTER P.E. CLASS BECAUSE OF THE DISGRACE AND INSECURITY THEY ARE TAUGHT TO HAVE BY AMERICAN SOCIETY. I WAS ALSO BROUGHT UP THIS WAY AND UNTIL FIVE YEARS AGO.THATS WHEN I STARTED STUDING THE BIBLE MUCH CLOSER AND LEARNED IN BEING A TRUE BELEIVER THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW MAN'S RULES BUT GODS. THAT GOD GAVE US AS BELEIVERS EVERYTHING ON THIS EARTH IN ABUNDANCE INCLUDING OUR BODIES AS TEMPLES UNTO HIM. SO, I DON,T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE TO HIDE THEM OR BE ASHAMMED OF THEM!
IN CONCLUESION I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE THAT EDUCATION OF PEOPLE WOULD BE MOST IMPORTANT AND YOUNG PEOPLE USUALLY CAN FIND A WAY TO GET MONEY TO DO THE THINGS THEY REALLY WANT TO.

Croydon

11-05-2002, 04:40 AM

It is funny how you mentionb P.E. I graduated from an all boys prep school in MA. After P.E. class, showers were optional but no one dared to take one. Besides, with the 10 minutes we were given in between the end of class and the beginning of the next, we didnt have time to shower. It is quite funny because we all smelled horrible after P.E. It was espically bad when P.E. was in the morning. I also ran track and after track practice, no one took a shower. We just changed into our uniform and went home.

TXK NUDE

11-05-2002, 04:54 AM

I would agree with most of the posts here about the original topic. In addition to lack of information, steep costs, location, etc., I would add that while many resorts WANT more young people, most have no idea how to attract younger people, couples, families, etc. From my own personal experience, most nudist resorts seem to only have a pool, jacuzzi, and bar/clubhouse, and their activities are limited to laying around the pool during the day, and getting drunk and stupid at night. Not attractive to many younger people I've met.
This is not a difficult, or necessarily expensive, problem to fix. Something as simple as a water volleyball tournament in the afternoons, or build a climbing wall (not too much money needed for that). For families, as I have posted elsewhere, the addition of a play area for the kids, so mom and dad can enjoy a swim, a rousing game of canasta, or (if they so choose) sip a margartia and lay around the pool!
The key word here is ACTIVITY. Give younger people something to do...we're NOT retired yet! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bartamus

11-05-2002, 08:22 AM

TXKNUDE: Well said. You hit the nail on the head.
I agree that most nudist/naturist resorts want to
attract young people..a few even feature younger
naturists on their websites..but they have no
clue how to get young naturists involved. In fact
I dare say a great majority of the nudist
organizations representing these resorts such
as AANR and TNS have only recently acknowledged
INA. This year we've gone to a few AANR and TNS
meetings and recieve only polite acceptance. I
think it's fair to say the leadership of these
groups aren't completely on board with us yet.
In the meantime, the resorts need to be more
"youth friendly". Your description of what they
offer is very accurate. They desire younger people but they often cater to the older
demographic.

luvnaturism

11-05-2002, 07:59 PM

What I'm about to say will be scary to some.

Resorts and/or clubs that are serious about attracting younger adults will put younger adults in a position to affect both policy and program. If it's a board-run organization, there must be enough young adults on the board to be able to change existing policies. If it's a facility held by one or two owners, then perhaps a young adult manager is necessary. If the willingness to do this is not present, then it's a waste of time to talk about attracting a younger crowd.

Having said that, it's also true that not just any younger adults can make the difference. It's necessary to have people who are leaders , and it's highly desirable to have people who have been part of a club that is successfully reaching young adults.

Fundamental to all of the above is for the club or resort to have the serious will to do what it takes to reach younger people, even if it might mean that some older adults drop out in the process.

11-06-2002, 12:02 AM

Though I'm among the "older demographic", as with any age group the key to attracting more young people is to ask the existing ones what games and activities interest them and implementing them if cost allows. When other young people aee that there is something going on that interests them, rather than everything being aimed at my generation or older, perhaps they would be more apt to give social nudity a try.

The old want to just sit and relax. Many of the middle aged like myself want slower paced activities, but we don't all want to just sit and do nothing. The young need and want games and activities aimed at their age group. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Bob S.

11-06-2002, 06:27 PM

There is no rule that states that nudist parks must have activities for all demographics. I'm sure there are parks that rather prefer the older population who are not so "rambunctious". That is their priveledge to not cater to the younger generation.

Nudists need to shop around before they try to attend a nudist park. And if they go somewhere that they do not care for, they have three options: Keep going there in hopes that it will cyhange , try to make a difference while attending, or go somewhere else.

Bob S.

David77

11-06-2002, 07:48 PM

Yes, there may be some old persons in lounge chairs around the pool eithering just relaxing, conversing or reading, but you need not do the same as they do.
Instead, take some responsibility for your own entertainment activities since there probabaly won't be an activites director to keep thing jumping all day long. Plan ahead and bring athletic or game equipment, which you may not be able to check out for use at the resort, such as he following: tennis rackets and tennis balls, vollyball, table games, books, videos, music with private ear phones, frisbys, petanque paddles and balls, horseshoes, croquette, fishing poles, and if that is not enough to keep you active, take a walk on the wooded trails, cook your meals at your tent or in your recreation vehicle or go to town for a meal in the restaurant or join the pot luck meal at the resort or the meals offered on the grounds of the resort. Go boating. By all means attend the dances and listen to the music. Attend the special events as listed in the resort's web page under "Calender". There may be a planned foot race, a music festival, an antique car meet or a motorcyle meet, for instance. Emotionally enrich yourself by conversation, if possible. Ask various other young persons to join in with playing vollyball or other games. They may be like you and not want to lay around the pool and may very much welcome some vigorous activity. Then you will not say that there is no activity for young people at nudist resorts, as you have planned ahead, initiated, & participated in much interesting activity.

Rik

11-07-2002, 12:55 AM

This thread started off with the question "why are younger naturists not visiting nude resorts? " and has ended up hectoring young people for not getting off their asses and doing something about it themselves.

This approach would be all well and good if non-nudist young people were actually complaining that there was not enough for them to do at naturist sites but frankly they're not. They don't visit naturist resorts because they don't see nudism as relevant to their lives. Indeed many young people are more "anti-nudity" than their parents. It is the existing nudist community which believes that the "movement" needs more young people so surely it is up to that community to initiate the changes necessary to attract the younger element - and it's a credit to the INA that they recognize this and appear to be taking the lead in achieving it.

The changes needed will not happen by trying to impose sensible values on the young (however well intentioned) but by understanding what makes youngsters do the things they do and tapping into their minds. This is how advertisers sell their expensive products to an increasingly affluent younger generation.

Of course the downside of all this is that if the nudist community successfully manages to attract large numbers of young people it will become a victim of its own success. Its resorts would be taken over by noisy drunken youths who want loud music playing in the early hours of the morning and it wouldn't be long before people were pining for the good old days when only the slightly eccentric middle-aged person and the odd pervert took nudism seriously. Ah well you can't win 'em all. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rik

David77

11-07-2002, 09:58 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rik:
[QB]This thread started off with the question "why are younger naturists not visiting nude resorts? "

I do not accept the premise, as stated above, that younger naturists are not visiting nude resorts.

The valid question which I could accept is "Why do not MORE (meaning a higher percentage) of young naturists visit nudist resorts.

I know for a fact that young naturists are visiting nudist resorts as I have seen them at MSA conventions, and AANR convention and I have watched them perform skits and programs for the entire conventions and do service projects and raise money for projects. Their enthusiasm is great and their contributions to the cause of naturism is much appreciated. Also, when there were no conventions at the resorts there were young persons attending. Some special events at nudist resorts attract even larger crowds of young persons (mostly over age 18, as they would then not need a guardian and parent's written consent.). Also at the local nudist club there were some young people attending.

I do agree that the percentage of young persons especially, should be greater. Ideally the percentage of persons of all ages should be greater.

I feel certain that there are young participant of this bulletin board who would very much like to go to a naturist resort, but for one reason or another, can not, but would do so if they could - but will attend a resort sometime in the future while they are still young.

Since the word "hectoring" is not a commonly used word, I unfortunately had to go to the dictionary to see what I am possibly accused of. I find that it means "bullying", "to torment by words".
Wow! Ouch! I did not mean to do that! I thought that I was merely giving some helpful suggestions. I apologize to all whom I may have offended, and I am sorry that post was inappropriate. Maybe I should lay low for awhile until "the whole thing blows over", (not that my post is very important to anyone) and is not as fresh in mind and I am not as chagrined. Again, I apologize.

luvnaturism

11-07-2002, 10:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by David77:
[QUOTE]
Since the word "hectoring" is not a commonly used word, I unfortunately had to go to the dictionary to see what I am possibly accused of. I find that it means "bullying", "to torment by words". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>David, don't be so quick to apologize. My view is that Rik chose the wrong word (I wonder if "hectoring" might have a softer meaning in the UK?). I can see where a young adult receiving your comments might reasonably feel "badgered," but there would be no justification for her to feel bullied.

Besides, what fun is a forum where everyone agrees? It helps the discussion when views are sharply stated, providing that it doesn't descend into personal attack.

Here's my radical thought for day. Churches that have determined to reach larger numbers of young adults have universally discovered that, in order to do it, they must take account of the fact that today there are major generational differences. If one looks at three adult generations today (grandparent, parent, adult child), the differences between them are so great that they cannot be bridged in large numbers.

Example: churches have found that it is IMPOSSIBLE to reach today's young adults in large numberts without offering today's young adult music. But most older adults can't stand today's young adult music, and aren't willing to put up with it.

Translate this to a naturist setting, and it means that if you want large numbers of young adults you must provide a high energy, high decible setting. But that's exactly the setting that older naturists aren't going to put up with. So you're either going to have to have well separated multiple venues (costly) or program for different groups at different times (carries a different kind of cost, because you'll lose some of your faithful older members).

The best example of how this can work that I personally know is at the Grand Lido Braco resort in Jamaica. The resort has two sides (nude and prude) that share some common facilities, particularly restuarants.

The crowd on the textile side leans heavily toward twenty-somethings. The loud music competes with even louder announcements coming over the PA, and there's a lot of high-energy activity in a space that's relatively small for the number of people involved (big pool with a big crowd).

On the other side of the resort things are much quieter and less frenetic at the a/n pool. Music plays some of the time, but not all the time. There are plenty of fun activities, but they don't dominate the way they do on the other side. Most importantly, the pool is so huge that anyone looking for peace and quiet has only to move a little further from the bar.

So there's a demonstration that you can have both groups on the property in large numbers. However, the investment required to make this work is very large.

Nor does it work for older people to encourage those younger adults who do come to organize some activities that they like to do and bring their friends. To make that work you need leaders with whom the non-attenders will identify, and those who enjoy coming now to a traditional setting are probably not typical of the non-attenders whom you're trying to reach.

So a club or resort that seriously wants to attract young adults needs to go outside the present group, find someone with the necessary leadership skills, hire her, and give her the necessary authority to set up and run her program. You do this knowing in advance that some older members will be offended and you will lose their business. Most established resorts and clubs aren't going to do that because the risks are too great.

Here's one more radical thought. The idea that young adults as a demographic group can't afford to pay for their recreation is a myth. Obviously there are individuals who can't afford a movie, but around the country lots of twenty-somethings drive BMWs. I saw an article about cigar bars in which a young man in his 20s stated that he visits such a place two or three times a week, spending about $150 each time. It can easily cost $5,000 for a couple to have a week at Braco, but there's never any shortage of youth.

The shortage is of quality naturist destinations that are set up to be the kinds of places in which young adults choose to spend their recreation money. I'm hoping that INA might eventually be able to take leadership to start several such places around the country.

David77

11-07-2002, 11:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rik:

Of course the downside of all this is that if the nudist community successfully manages to attract large numbers of young people it will become a victim of its own success. Its resorts would be taken over by noisy drunken youths who want loud music playing in the early hours of the morning and it wouldn't be long before people were pining for the good old days /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I disagree again, Rik. These young people would be subject to present resort rules regarding drunkenness and "loud music in the early hours of the morning". There are quiet time curfews at the resorts. Music playing must be accompanied by private earphones, for the most part. If the rules are broken, a person or group is required to leave, and usually without any refund. Some resorts have private security personal to police the peace and rights and comfort of the "guests". If the offenders will not leave the resort when asked, the county sheriff's personel will show up to do the bouncing or arresting. I think that this rarely happens, as you yourself recently said that naturists are more to be trusted to behave well. I, too, have found this good or trustworthy behavior to be so, and I have confidence that young naturists in larger numbers will continue to prove that this is indeed true.

Rik

11-07-2002, 12:28 PM

David77

Well I had my tongue firmly in my cheek when I wrote those words and I wasn't really suggesting that all young naturists would be objectionable drunkards but youngsters do what youngsters do and that includes having a good time. Sure they'd be subject to all the rules you say but the (very sensible) rules you're talking about seem to be for the benefit of us oldies and would hardly encourage those looking for a good time to turn to naturism.

I'm sorry about the word "hectoring". It's not all that common a word this side of the Atlantic either but it was the best word I could come up with at the time. I would not have defined it as "bullying" in the abusive sense but rather "bullying" in the sense of chivying.

I agree with luvnaturism when he says "Besides, what fun is a forum where everyone agrees? It helps the discussion when views are sharply stated, providing that it doesn't descend into personal attack." One of the really good thing about these forums is that they often contain very lively debate but only rarely do they descend into personal abuse like so many internet forums and newsgroups.

Rik

Rik

11-07-2002, 12:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by luvnaturism:
So a club or resort that seriously wants to attract young adults needs to go outside the present group, find someone with the necessary leadership skills, hire her, and give her the necessary authority to set up and run her program. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Only females need apply /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MaxUK

11-07-2002, 01:38 PM

Two really important reasons (in my view) why more people ages 35 and under don't join in the fun:

1. When people in this rather (large age) bracket go out, they tend to do it with a bunch of friends - cinema, pub, meal at someones house, bowling, club, restaurant, beach etc. It would be very surprising to find that out of a group of say, 8 people, more than two or three would want to go regularly to a nudist place, be it beach, club or wherever. Friends want to do things, many things, together - nudist recreation is just not an option to the whole crowd. It may happen once (ie a skinny dip or something) but PLANNING to do something, including everyone, would not be very popular.
As people get older, going out with big groups of mates is not as important, and the desire to spend spare time just in a couple, or with selected friends is greater - ie. more conducive to a naturist slant on life from time to time.

2. people aged 35 and under are just too busy to be worrying about when the next naturist outing will happen. Of course people over 35 are busy too, but generally are out of college, in a job, have a home etc. Younger folk are organising their lives, getting qualifications, moving around looking for work, saving for a house etc. and any spare time is time you want to spend with friends (refer to 1. above) and family.
There are just so many more important things to the average 20 yr old than getting naked somewhere just for the hell of, well, getting naked.

I though am 32 and strip whenever possible! Not very often but I'm working on it (between all the other stuff!!)

Max

Rik

11-07-2002, 03:08 PM

Max
Not sure I fully agree. When people claim not to have the time to do something what they really mean is that it's not high enough on their list of priorities.

It's like all those people who say they're too busy to go to the gym, or learn a language or play a musical instrument - they're almost always lying. You'll often find these busy people can always find time to slob out in front of the telly for a couple of hours each night, or go to the pub or in fact do anything they'd rather be doing than the things they make excuses not to do. I guess they're just being human.

If young people want to participate in naturism they'll do it but - and here I agree with you - "There are just so many more important things to the average 20 yr old than getting naked somewhere just for the hell of, well, getting naked."

Rik

PS Not heard from you for a while. Been away or just too busy? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MaxUK

11-08-2002, 12:02 PM

Hey Rik,

Yeah - good call. People do say they haven't time when if they really wanted too they'd make time. Still I do think the point I made about younger people doing things more in larger groups and therefore opting for the universally acceptable pastimes of pub, shopping trip etc. is quite valid.

We've moved recently and the PC has been out of action for a while. Plus the dregs of the Summer actually turned out quite nice - we went to Devon with about 9 friends from college and one day actua;lly got some skinny dipping in - it was Oct 6th but really warm and sunny!!
Some of us were coast hiking and found a great small, deserted sandy beach and myself and my mate Matt just stripped and piled in. Another guy followed suit but the girlfriends just got down to pants/bras and had a good old laugh at us splashing around in the buff.
Hence my first observation in my original post. We all want to do stuff together so planning a naked jaunt just would not work - too many people not up for it.

Still - fantastic few hours in a great part of the country. Where do you (Rik) hail from??

Max

Rik

11-08-2002, 12:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by MaxUK:
Hence my first observation in my original post. We all want to do stuff together so planning a naked jaunt just would not work - too many people not up for it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well even though the girls didn't join in they seem to have enjoyed it just as much as you. They clearly didn't take offence so perhaps, just perhaps, you might just be able to arrange "clothing optional" jaunts in the future.

Early October was good. I spent a day at Morfa Duffryn beach in North Wales on the 3rd. The beach was only lightly populated and the weather was brilliant. If you ever go there look out for the notice in the car park which says: "Warning. Aircraft landing. You are advised not to loiter or park in this vicinity". /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm from Manchester area where its been bucketing down most of the day. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Rik

laggeri

11-10-2002, 08:11 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by MaxUK:
Hey Rik,

Yeah - good call. People do say they haven't time when if they really wanted too they'd make time. Still I do think the point I made about younger people doing things more in larger groups and therefore opting for the universally acceptable pastimes of pub, shopping trip etc. is quite valid.

We've moved recently and the PC has been out of action for a while. Plus the dregs of the Summer actually turned out quite nice - we went to Devon with about 9 friends from college and one day actua;lly got some skinny dipping in - it was Oct 6th but really warm and sunny!!
Some of us were coast hiking and found a great small, deserted sandy beach and myself and my mate Matt just stripped and piled in. Another guy followed suit but the girlfriends just got down to pants/bras and had a good old laugh at us splashing around in the buff.
Hence my first observation in my original post. We all want to do stuff together so planning a naked jaunt just would not work - too many people not up for it.Max <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree. The media in England always use nudism as a source of humour / eccentricity. "Nudists are all middle aged overweight people" type of thing, or else The Carry-on films type nonsense (for US posters: end of the pier / burlesque / Benny Hill type humour. To overcome these prejeudices one needs maturity something that grows with age. Having said that there are plenty of those in the under 30 age bracket who have the maturity to try skinny dipping sunbathing etc. Since the late 1980's I go on holiday to Greece every year and always come back with an all over tan. The first time I went there I was in my early mid twenties and there were plenty of my age group on the (nudist) beach. Some who turned up there without realising it was nudist would just strip off and enjoy it.

Speed forward 14 years... most of those in the late twenties who seem to go there now, don't strip off and in some cases the women will wear bikinis.

Last year I went on hols in the busy season (late July - August). In Antiparos the official nudist beach seems to have plenty of twentysomethings who are more comfortable clothed. A girl I met from Canada wanted to strip off (she had specifically came to the beach to try nudism) but felt intimidated because so many were clothed and only went topless. FYI most of the twentysomethings were staying in the nearby campsite and amongst the nudists it is a friendly beach people talk away and get to know each other well, sharing snacks and drinks.

Also there were a bunch of graduates from England who were staying in a house near the nudist beach. They only came to the beach one day. Basically they were about 8-9 well spoken middle class home counties types. All of the girls were topless but the blokes kept their shorts on. After an hour or 2 they got bored and went off somewhere else. As a couple of the lads were a bit boorish I was relieved. As they were leaving one of the boorish lads shouted "Lulu's going nudey" I thought it was some sort of nurerry rhyme or drinking song. Then I realised one of the girls wanted to go fully nude and waited for the others to depart. After she was sure that they had gone and weren't playing a joke to sneak up on her she took off her bottoms and went swimming. Later on one of her female pals came down and she joined her. As they became comfortable / aclimatised they started to talk to the rest of us. They enjoyed their time naked and the freedom of swimming except the time they thought that their pals had come back. They were totally comfortable going topless in front of their "modestly" dressed male pals but not bottomless (which I found a bit strange as if I was them I wouldn't have gone topless in front of the lads) They even had photos taken of the 2 of them to show their boyfriends.

notanlines

11-10-2002, 09:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dude in Nor Cal:
It's true that most of the nudist resorts are geared towards people who have cash, ie older people. I'm lucky, I've always gone camping since I was a little tike and when I feel like getting naked I go on a hike and find a nice secluded beach by the river. Only in the summer of course. Not much comraderie, but then nobody will hassle or gawk either. If anyone happens to be in N. California this summer, I'll be happy to show you or direct you to some really good spots.

...but now I'm in Cleveland 'till May and being naked outside in Ohio in October is the worst thing one could wish on a person...

So if you're tired of nude beaches 8 hours away and resorts filled with oldsters- go explore. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

notanlines

11-10-2002, 09:32 AM

This is for Dude in Nor Cal. If you're "stuck" in Cleveland until May, you might want to check out our club, Northcoast Naturists. We meet twice a month at a West Side Fitness club. Visitors are welcom at all our events and we have lots of fun and friendship to share.
If you want more information, you can contact me at jtink6833@earthlink.net.
Your first visit is free!
Hope to see you there.

notanlines

11-10-2002, 09:45 AM

As for younger people at Nudist resorts and camps, I have seen some at the family friendly resorts, tho fewer that you might expect.
The trouble with some resorts is that they cater to couples, married or not, and are not open to singles as a rule. They may have a "quota" or some other system which discourages younger, unattached people from visiting their facilities.
If they want to grow, and promote the idea of a healthy nudist lifestyle, they should open their gates to those of us who are single, divorced, or widowed.
A "singles weekend" or some such event might attract a crowd of people who have been trying to find a resort or club to visit without restrictions on gender.
It is also a source of new members and their participation and/or money.

BrianM

11-10-2002, 11:06 AM

Notanlines
To add to something you said (I do not know how do that quote thing)There has been much controversy on the reason why these resorts require couples / and full nudity in various places...I will not go into this, but My spin on this is as follows, I know many may disagree. I get a feeling that it isn't because people are embarrased unless others are nude, long time nudist do not have this worry, it is because many in the community want to see a fair proportion of naked women around, and gender balance and required nudity is the answer to this. I made this conclusion by discussing a similar issue of clothing optional verses required nudity on another board, specifically about Grand Lido Braco rules. Nonetheless, as you stated, the couples rule takes out a large majority of potential young nudist. Many non-nudist females would also follow suit if there male companions had experience with nudism and wanted them to go, but they probably would not experiment with it as a couple. Many young females are willing to try things for the satifaction of thier males, and some vice versa.

Bartamus

11-10-2002, 11:13 AM

Laggeri: I too remember going to the Greek Isles
in the 80's and seeing a lot of twenty something
English youth at the nude end of the beach.
I'm thinking specifically of IOS. Perhaps you
were one of them. I remember being one of only
three Americans on the entire island. It was
1988-89 when U.S. relations with the Greek
Government wasn't that good.
Do you think the current twenty something
generation are more modest than we all were
a while back? Humm, maybe I should pose this
question in a separate post?

MaxUK

11-10-2002, 11:22 AM

Rik,

My mate Matt is well up for going to a CO beach in the UK and was the first to get his kit off in Devon. Also his fiancee would, I am sure, join in if we went as she is game for a laugh and loves the sun. My wife is definitely not bothered at all which is a bit of a shame - she is happier showing off a new bikini on a beach than stripping off!! Still I'm not bothered unduly - it's up to her and I shall continue saying that I enjoy it and would lime to go to a beach every now and then. Would be great if we could all go as a foursome but I don't think it will happen in the near future.

I have fond memories of the year I spent in Manchester - even saw a couple of girls sunbathing topless in a park once, near Altringham (Dunham Massey). Wonders will never cease !!

Rik

11-10-2002, 01:22 PM

Max,

Tell her she can still show off her bikini on a CO beach - not that anyone's likely to be impressed. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Non nudist wives seems to be a common theme amongst guys here. I have the same problem. She says she sees nothing wrong with nudity per se but doesn't think she could ever do it herself. I'm not so sure: she's happy to go with me to CO beaches, has said she might consider going to a nudist swim and I'm hoping to persuade her fly out to join me at a naturist campsite for a week during a 3 or 4 week tour of Scandinavia next year.

On the other hand we could just take a trip to Dunham Massey!!

Rik

laggeri

11-10-2002, 02:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bartamus:

Do you think the current twenty something
generation are more modest than we all were
a while back? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, they are supposedly more liberal but in reality aren't.

Croydon

11-12-2002, 04:30 AM

Ok. I have decided to visit a resort. Are ya happy now? lol....Normally, I go to London or Manchester UK during my spring break and visit friends. For the upcoming spring break, I have decided to go to Club Orient in St.Marteen (St. Martin)with a friend. From what I have been told, it is a good place. So hopefully I will have a good time.

Bartamus

11-12-2002, 05:40 AM

Croydon: Congrats! I hear they've got a great nude beach. We have no doubt you'll tell us all
about it when you return.

NakedInCT

11-16-2002, 07:23 AM

Judging from some of the posts, it seems there are plenty of teens and young adults out there interested in the nudist lifestyle. To get more of them to come to nudist resorts, you need to give them someplace to go. They're not going to want to hang around a campground all day. The bigger the place is, and the more there is to do, the better. I'm thinking about a beach (if no water around, have a lot of land to hike on), and maybe even a little town with places to eat and browse. Have some space! If they can walk the grounds in five minutes, young people probably won't hang around too long. Rather than having a lot of small nudist campgrounds, maybe several landowners should pool their resources and buy a huge chunk of land together. Otherwise we're left with a bunch of small enclaves for retirees.

11-16-2002, 05:29 PM

RT here again, putting his penny.

Not feeling the best today, self inflicted so no sympathy please. It's an awesome day outside but The Turnbull twins are a bit hung over.

On to the topic, I have to agree with BN, the youth of today need a bit more that a camp ground to have fun. I like the beach because you have the rolling waves, the feeling of the sand between your toes etc...

We (Casey & I) grew up in the naturist lifestyle at the local nude beach so I guess I'm a bit one eyed about nude beaches.

RT

AussieBeachBoy

02-23-2003, 08:17 PM

In my view, the standard nudist resort isn't the sort of place that fits the profile holiday destination of young people.

First, a lot of young people don't like going to one place and staying there a while (by which I mean, within the confines of the resort). Unless there are a lot of activities available at the resort, young people are going to want to move around a bit, even if only on day trips.

Second, there's the cost. Young people travelling alone/with other young people usually stay in the cheapest places they can. I'm not saying nudist resorts are necessarily expensive, but since they cater for a reasonably boutique market they are generally more expensive than (say) a youth hostel.

Third, many young people like to go somewhere with a reasonable number of other young people around to interact with, doing things like playing loud music and games etc. The large number of older clientele at some nudist resorts may feel a bit threatened by this sort of behaviour, and so (understandably) the owners move to restrict this behaviour with curfews etc.

What would probably get more young people along would be more 'niche' nudist resorts for young people - sort of like Club Med for nudists. The real question is whether there would be a big enough market for such places.

toofeelgood

02-25-2003, 06:32 AM

Yep, I think you are right Aussieboy. For instance, in Germany there are textile water parks that have FKK/nude nights on certain days of the week. It sounds like there are many youth without parents there on these nights. Sounds like fun!

kemil

02-28-2003, 01:20 AM

Please see www.nudist.hit.bg! (http://www.nudist.hit.bg!)

Hokienudist

02-28-2003, 07:15 AM

I must have missed this post when it first appeared, but here are my two cents... taken from a 23 yr old nudist, but never been a club or beach nudist.

I think most people have hit the nail on the head in determining why nudists places dont attract a fair amount of people my age. But i think most of it is that these clubs are percieved as places for older people, and most of the activites that go on at clubs are oriented to older people. I know that there are some active things to do such as swimming, and basketball, stuff like that... but younger people are just not going to pay up to 30 dollars to go somewhere to do something they can do for free elsewhere, just for the sake to do it nude. The price is a little high in most cases, but the clubs cant lower the rates cause they keep them that high to make enough money to operate. So its kind of a catch 22 for younger adults.

So i think to attract more younger adults you need to change the general image of clubs to allow for younger adults to be interested. Its a long process to do so, but i think some of the ideas addressed in this topic would be a good start.

I've seen the stuff on the 22 year old manager of the terra cota inn in palm springs, i think thats great for young nudists, but that club only allows couples. If you want younger people to go your going to have to cater to singles mostly, cause of the fact that most people my age go places in groups of singles.. which i totally agree with cause i do the exact same thing.

To give some point of reference, i think some of the reasons i havnt gone to a club yet are the expense (never had nearly enough money to go while i was in college and right after i got out, including now), also there are too few of clubs (not much you can do about that), and prolly the activites that most these clubs have arnt interesting enough to spend a whole day at, and not be bored at some point. You have to pay 30 dollars or so to get in, and thats for the whole day... but you need enough activites to keep you interested the whole day, and 99% of clubs dont have enough stuff to keep you interested the whole day.

Beaches are different thing cause young people LOVE to go to the beach so thats enough to keep them interested, plus the fact that it costs usually nothing to go. Thus the reason for more young people.

So i think we all know what needs to change for more younger people to attend clubs. I think that INA is definitely doing a great job in trying to do this, but its going to take a long time. I think the future for nudism is bright and that as america becomes more open, then the face of nudism will competely change, but for the better /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bartamus

02-28-2003, 03:13 PM

Hokienudist; Well said. It's our eternal hope that owners of resorts are reading these posts
by naturist/nudists in your age group.

Croydon

02-28-2003, 09:44 PM

In all honesty, I don't think many resorts care about young adults. If they did, they would make some noticeable effort.
One has to think of the fundamental reason why resorts exist, to make money. It's a business. That being said, young people are not rich and don't have disposable income. If that is true, it makes sense as to why resorts do not cater to young adults. I am not defending resorts by the way.

But I do agree that resorts should try to include young adults. From a business perspective, it can be rewarding. It is just that resort owners have not tried to figure out how to attract young adults. It is all in marketing. If expensive hotels and resorts in FL, Mexico and Jamaica can get college students to spend thousands of dollars on spring break trips, you sure can get young adult nudists to do the same. Like I said, it is all in the marketing.

Hokienudist

03-01-2003, 03:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Croydon:
In all honesty, I don't think many resorts care about young adults. If they did, they would make some noticeable effort.
One has to think of the fundamental reason why resorts exist, to make money. It's a business. That being said, young people are not rich and don't have disposable income. If that is true, it makes sense as to why resorts do not cater to young adults. I am not defending resorts by the way.

But I do agree that resorts should try to include young adults. From a business perspective, it can be rewarding. It is just that resort owners have not tried to figure out how to attract young adults. It is all in marketing. If expensive hotels and resorts in FL, Mexico and Jamaica can get college students to spend thousands of dollars on spring break trips, you sure can get young adult nudists to do the same. Like I said, it is all in the marketing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're right Croydon, resorts do have to make some kind of effort, or young adults will never go to their resorts.

Its resort owners that are stuck in their old nudist views that worry me about the future of nudism. Like the terra cota inn having a 22 year old manager, but then turning around and having a policy of not allowing young singles in. Doesnt make any sense to me.

Trailscout

03-01-2003, 01:42 PM

I agree that young people are looking for places with lots to do, free or low admission fees and a fun young crowd. Conventional nudist resorts are too often merely places for middle-aged couples to lie by the pool and do nothing else.

For most of us here in the US, the beach is too far to go every weekend. I love the beach and yet I can rarely manage to go more than twice a year.

I think a clothing-optional youth hostel/campground near the Appalachian Trail would do well. The Trail attracts a younger, physically active, more open-minded crew that would probably be receptive to such an environment.

We have 5 months of hot humid weather here and water parks are a huge success with young people. Why not have a nude water park?

Bartamus

03-01-2003, 02:25 PM

Croydon and Hokienudist: I would have to agree
with both of you. In fact, I began this topic
way back in October following a trip to Desert
Shadows naturist resort in Palm Springs, California. By the way, the INA crew (four people
under 30) were there recently for the grand
opening of their nudist bridge.
Croydon: I think you're right, the majority of
nudist resorts are most interested in the bottom
line than actually promoting naturism.
As a result they cater to the high end customer
which is almost always older nudists.
We at INA keep trying to open their eyes that
nudism is dying without a youth injection. Some
resorts like Lupin Resort near San Jose are
very pro-INA and welcome young singles.

florida-david

03-01-2003, 06:55 PM

i recently went to the mid winter festival at sunsport in west palm beach. my wife and i went with our three kids to go camping, nature hike, see the festival activities, enjoy the campfires, and enjoy the pool. another couple with two kids scheduled the kid's events.our combined five kids and three or four other kids enjoyed these events. but the rest of the activities were clearly geared towards the adults. although many people said they were happy to finally see kids at this event, there were more adults grumbling about the marco polo yelling, the kids enjoying the slide into the pool, the loud pooltime activities, etc. i mean, how many of the adults were enjoying the slide (other than me)?? isn't that why a slide was put there? also, the quiet adult activities hogged the pool for numerous hours in the a.m., in the evening the t.v. in the main building was tuned to violent adult programming (which my kids DO NOT watch at home), the first night's campfire was very adult with adult discussion and the kids needed to keep quiet (making smores is a loud activity for my kids), etc, etc. i think that many adult nudists have honestly forgotten what it means to be a kid and are out of touch with the needs of young kids. thank goodness we were camping amongst the nicest people who enjoyed the company of kids, and since we were hardly at the tent, no one at the campsite objected to our loud family.

my family had a great time and i will continue to bring my kids to these sort of events. we had a lot of fun and met many, many nice alternative living people. it will also remind the older folks what it means to be young (and what that slide is for). but i have this feeling my kids will not find it enjoyable as they reach there teen years as they won't have age appropriate activities planned unless another nice couple plans them (as the kids get older, maybe my wife and i will plan the activities, but if there are no kids their age at the event, than what good will it do?)....

Doug H

03-01-2003, 07:08 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:

We have 5 months of hot humid weather here and water parks are a huge success with young people. Why not have a nude water park?[/QB] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A waterpark (C/O or textile) is expensive to build and operate. A nice idea and one that I'd like to see happen one day. There are also security issues involved because this may have to be "open to the general public" to be economically viable. Again, a good idea, but it requires LOTS of money.

Doug H.

EricNY

03-01-2003, 09:04 PM

Very true Doug, it would be expensive, on a large scale.

It seems to me, though, that it would be a good idea to do something. I think the resorts should do anything they can to bring in the younger crowd, after all the younger crowd IS the next older crowd. What will they do if they turn us off now.

I think that with some effort and planning, they can please both the young and the old.

As far as the cost, 30 bucks is a lot of money to sit around and stare at a pool, but it is not a lot of money if you had a great time.

Doug H

03-02-2003, 06:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ercNY:

I think that with some effort and planning, they can please both the young and the old.

As far as the cost, 30 bucks is a lot of money to sit around and stare at a pool, but it is not a lot of money if you had a great time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>With that last sentence, you hit the nail on the head.

Doug H.

Trailscout

03-02-2003, 07:26 AM

Hmmm, I see your point about an exclusively nudist water park.

What if a conventional water park were located in Pasco County Florida or some other area where lots of nudists go? Could FANR members pool their resources to negotiate a regularly scheduled nudist day at these parks?

I know that in the DC, NYC areas and elsewhere nudist groups rent athletic clubs for one night a month.

pkeyser2001

03-02-2003, 10:06 AM

I think the boy band is Blink 182 and they have a couple of videos with them running nude.

Doug H

03-02-2003, 10:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Hmmm, I see your point about an exclusively nudist water park.

What if a conventional water park were located in Pasco County Florida or some other area where lots of nudists go? Could FANR members pool their resources to negotiate a regularly scheduled nudist day at these parks?

I know that in the DC, NYC areas and elsewhere nudist groups rent athletic clubs for one night a month. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of the two waterparks that I know of in Ohio wouldn't be suitable, as in open to view from off the premises. Were this Germany or Holland, no problem. Here in the US, it would be a big deal, and probably for the wrong reasons.

Doug H.

brainyguy9999

03-02-2003, 11:04 AM

Maybe someone could organize a youth day or youth weekend where people in different age groups could get a discount. Say, for instance, that the 3rd weekend in July was dedicated Youth Retreat Weekend by participating resorts. They could agree to a discounted admission rate for that day... Say

0-17 = free with adult supervision
Everyone else = $5/day
Members of the resort = free

If families brought their children under 17, they could get in free.

This would help ensure that there was a wide range of ages that would more represent nudism rather than just bringing in a narrow age group.

The resorts could encourage their members to show up those days to be an example of behavior to newbies and to watch for inapproprate behaviors occuring. The resorts could even appoint several of their regulars to patrol the resort looking for trouble, help people who need help, or just set an example of a "good nudist".

The resorts should plan several activites during the weekend designed for the younger crowds. At the same time, they should not neglect the older groups. Schedule an event that would draw the most young people at the same time that an event designed for the older crowd was scheduled.

Some activities could be: live music (for both the younger crowd and the older crowd), competitions (volleyball, frisbee, horseshoes, speed swimming, chess, checkers, spelling bees, sack races, water balloon fights, etc.) , crafts, seminars (learn football rules, valuing antiques, getting involved in politics, cooking, home improvement projects, home decoration, etc.) , and demonstrations of various hobbies (kite making, model train collection, canvas painting, antique cars, motorcycles, baseball card collecting, gardening techniques, etc.). Think of what you would find at a state fair (minus the big rides and most of the crooked games /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ).

If the event was promoted thoroughly enough, it would give people that didn't want to be involved enough notice to stay away for that weekend. If promoted early enough, it would give families from different areas of the country time to plan vacation time or time to rearrange schedules so they could attend.

All businesses are reluctant to give anything away. However, some losses on a particular weekend may be beneficial in the long run for many resorts (think loss-leader). Some that have on-site grills or restaruants would make up some of their loss on grounds fees in the food that people eat. Resorts could advertise that donations are welcome and suggest that people who visit could show their appreciation by stopping by the office on their way out and making a donation that represents their overall happiness with their visit.

I'm sorry my post was so long. Does anyone think that a Youth Day or, more appropriately, an All-Ages Day could be successful? Do you think that resorts or organizations (such as INA, AANR, TNS, etc.) would support it?

bg

AussieBeachBoy

03-02-2003, 02:49 PM

That sounds like an excellent idea, brainyguy.

To have the best chance of succeeding, it might be good if the proposal was taken to the resort by a group of people (say, INA) who was prepared to give them a guaranteed booking, and basically book the resort out for the weekend. It would have to be in a location with a substantial youth naturist population nearby.

florida-david

03-02-2003, 06:29 PM

brainyguy, now i know why they call you brainyguy. your idea sounds great, i just wonder where the event will be held, cause i would love to come if i can afford to get there. maybe it can be a travelling event that starts on one end of the country and ends a couple months later on the other end of the country. kind of like a nudist tour!?!?

EricNY

03-02-2003, 10:22 PM

Good thinking!

Brainyguy your on to something.

David that idea of a tour could work, that would be a blast! I would be there.

Come on INA, go on tour!

Bob S.

03-03-2003, 07:13 PM

As per your fee structure Brainguy, I wonder how many nudist parks charge for underage visitors. And seeing how they could not attend without a parent anyway, why put free with adult supervision? Just free would suffice.

The reduced rate for others is also not a novel idea. Nor is free visitation for members who are paying a large fee for that priviledge anyway.

I am a member of White Tail Park. Every summer weekend (from Mem day through Labor Day at least), they offer planned supervised children's activities and are hosting AANRER's Youth Leadership Camp (other summers, they are host to Juniorfest).

They also have two free days for new members. A Nude Art Show in June and Nat. Nude Week's Open House weekend. New visitors on these days are not required to go naked except for swimming or hot tub. The only thing they do not have really are activities planned for ALL age groups.

Something else they do is give all members a free guest pass coupon for a couple/family.

The problem I see is how to advertise these things. The media is sometimes limited, especially print media. Around here from what I've heard, the local paper will not accept advertisements from White Tail Park (although they did a story on them a while back). So my question would be how to get the word out to those who do not pay attention to the nudist world?

Bob S.

brainyguy9999

03-04-2003, 06:55 PM

First, I want to apologize for the length of this post. Sometimes I get long-winded. I hope it is beneficial, though, because I would like to see an event like this happen some day.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
As per your fee structure Brainguy, I wonder how many nudist parks charge for underage visitors. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't know the answer to that. I don't have children so I have never looked into it. Can someone who has visited a resort with children give some insight?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
And seeing how they could not attend without a parent anyway, why put free with adult supervision? Just free would suffice. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I wrote that for two reasons: 1) I envision this event reaching non-nudists as well as nudists. I guess I'm telling everyone here things they already know, however. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Most nudists know that anyone 17 or under has to have at least a parent's permission (if not their parent's attendance) to be allowed into a resort. I have read that some resorts will allow people under 17 alone with the permission of a parent, or with an accompanying guardian. If this event was advertised broadly, non-nudists (especially enthusiastic teens) would need to know this information before showing up. And, 2) I put "free with adult supervision" mainly because I wanted to stress that an adult with the ability to actually supervise was the key (maybe I should have spelled that out better in my first post). I don't think that a group of teenagers dropped off at the front gate with parental approval should be let in because they are with their friend Tom who just turned 18. They need to have someone with them who the management feels is capable of supervising their activities. I wouldn't see a problem with a responsible adult, say a father, bringing his son or daughter with several of his/her friends (with each of their parents' approval, of course) as long as the father could/would actually supervise their activities. Of course each resort can decide how to deal with each situation if a problem arises as they always do.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
The reduced rate for others is also not a novel idea. Nor is free visitation for members who are paying a large fee for that priviledge anyway. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I visit Timberline Resort in Tennessee. They have a graduated membership and grounds fees structure. At Timberline, non-members pay a $40/day grounds fee. There are three levels of member fees: Key Card Member $30/day, Bronze Member $15/day, and Full Member $0. Each time you visit, if you are not a full member, you get credit for the grounds fee you pay that is applied toward a membership. So, the more you go, the less you have to pay. If you go enough, you become a full member. You can purchase a membership outright but it is not required. I like their structure. In situations like these, giving non-members a $5/day rate and any level of member a free visit would be a great incentive at resorts that may have this type of structure.

Perhaps in a situation unlike Timberline, if the resort offered credit toward future membership fees it might be incentive to get them to come out. Maybe their desire to be needed as a good example or to help out would be enough for them. I always feel good when people say that they need and appreciate my help and/or expertise.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
The problem I see is how to advertise these things. The media is sometimes limited, especially print media ... So my question would be how to get the word out to those who do not pay attention to the nudist world?
Bob S. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Although some have suggested a rolling event, I had envisioned the event occuring on a single weekend during the summer and every resort that wanted to participate would do it on the same weekend. That way, funds could be pooled in order to try to blanket any media that we could get to run ads. If a particular paper, radio station, TV station, etc. refused to air/print an advertisement, they have competition that might. Also, nudists in their area could do a lot by promoting it at local colleges and universities on public bulletin boards, local free print papers, free access cable, and local information bulletin boards. Ads could be run like political campaigns. Sporadic advertisement at first. Then, as the date nears, more numerous and higher profile ads. I think that as the advertisement grows, the news stations will jump on the story to get the scoop. Maybe it could wind up with some valuable free advertising during news broadcasts.

Disclaimer: This is all my wishful thinking. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I have by no means covered every possibility. There are many positives and many negatives to this sort of event. It is something that was born in my brain and therefore has many faults. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif However, the question was posed "why are there so few young people at nudist events". Someone else suggested that money was one of the top reasons. Another suggested that lack of activities geared toward the younger crowd was a factor. In my mind an event like this could solve some of the problems at least for that weekend. Of course, after the event ends, resorts would revert to their normal operations and the original problems would reappear. This event would be more likely to get more people to try nudism rather than solve either of these problems. That, in itself, may bring in young people who have visions of their own and can begin to change the environment so that it includes more young people. I think problems with young nudists not visiting resorts is one that will need to be solved over time. But, maybe getting more people (especially young people) to try nudism is beneficial in itself.

Hope that answered some of your questions.

bg

brainyguy9999

03-10-2003, 07:02 PM

I hope I didn't kill this thread with my long post. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I didn't mean to run everyone off.

I would like to ask the administrators and anyone else on the board that works with resorts a question. Considering what you know about the resorts that you work with, do you think that they would be receptive to an event like I described above? I've only been to a couple of resorts and have never asked them to set up events at all so I don't have a clue how they would react.

I look forward to hearing your responses.

bg

Bartamus

03-11-2003, 06:01 AM

Brainyguy: Actually we at INA have discussed
such an event long before your post. In fact
we may put it together sometime this summer, but
I can't make any commitments now, except to
say it'll probably be in Northern California

Doug H

03-11-2003, 06:05 PM

The suggestion of making it a travelling show is an excellent. With due respect to site requirements (i.e., available space, available facilities, etc.), I've noticed that a lot of naturist functions tend toward either the deep south or one of the coasts. Being in Ohio, this could be a problem. A tour with widely dispersed destinations especially with a few in areas where a sizeable event usually doesn't get held could be a good thing.

Doug H.

eric731

03-31-2003, 04:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
I know this subject may have been addressed in
the past..but specifically why are younger
naturists not visiting nude resorts? They're not
nudists clubs, they're commercial ventures where
anyone is welcome!
QB] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The way to change this is the same way that any idea has come to change in any place at any time. This can change through education. We need more money spent on the education of the populace. We need sites that promote the normalcy of nudity and not price it will be to see nudity. We need marketing that shows the separation of nudist views from porn views. We need to educate the porn industry on their harmful product. We need to make sure the ordinary citizen is advertised in nudist pamphlets. That no matter the sex, age, race, or money in your pocket, that you can enjoy a designated nudist environment until it does become ok to go the grocery store in your birthday suit.

Also, I believe that to get away from the stigma that the porn business model has corrupted, is to not be so worried about the Benjamins in the nudist's pocket. If the whole point of the nudist environment is to take off society's clothes and enjoy fellowship with all God's creatures, than why was one article in the Wall Street Journal claiming that nudist travel was the fastest growing recreational activity, noting that many fancy cars were lining the parking lot of these resorts. Once again the almighty dollar is present. Now realistically I know we can't get rid of the desire for money. But how bout an admission price based on income level, so that those that are poor can also take off their poor clothes and be judged as themselves and not the poor clothes they wear. Or how bout just get rid of admission and paid memberships altogether and have fundraising drives like every other non profit organization...oh wait nudist clubs can not be non profit organizations because their business model is to make money.

MaxUK

04-09-2003, 02:26 PM

We need to educate the porn industry on their harmful product.

Harmful?? Nothing wrong with a bit of porn now and again - many women enjoy it as much as men !!

Should we ban Mcdonalds because the burgers are trash and contribute to obesity, heart disease etc.?? I don't eat the rubbish but there are those that like it - fine, its up to them.

Max

gamblefish

04-09-2003, 04:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by MaxUK:
Should we ban Mcdonalds because the burgers are trash and contribute to obesity, heart disease etc.??
Max <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes Max, yes we should. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

florida-david

04-09-2003, 08:28 PM

this has little to do with the original post, but....

its all about marketing and advertisement. the side with the higher budget wins. so, mcdonalds and porn will win, as always. in my opinion, neither should be present at a nudist resort where younger people will be present.

fanrlawyer

04-13-2003, 10:30 PM

Several in this thread have mentioned cost as an obstacle to younger naturists' participation. AANR and many of its affiliated clubs offer discounted memberships by age group or student status.
Also AANR's Nude U offers fun, learning and a very positive nudist experience June 5-13 at Lake Como for $300, including tent, board, and transportation to/from Tampa Int'l Airport.
Applications are available at AANR's website.

sw-uk nudist

04-14-2003, 05:17 AM

...shame breeds shame? what a depressing point to make sorry!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by laggeri:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bartamus:

Do you think the current twenty something
generation are more modest than we all were
a while back? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, they are supposedly more liberal but in reality aren't. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bob S.

04-14-2003, 08:12 PM

Actually David, I would think that having a McD's at a nudist park would be a good thing. Imagine the new terms that could be created, McNudists, McNudes, etc.

It would get a lot of publicity and make people realize that nudists are just as normal as everyone else.

Bob S.

MaxUK

04-16-2003, 04:05 PM

Gamblefish,

Err - Why should McDonalds be banned??

Just because you don't agree with it, it should be banned - right??

Same as just because someone (or a majority of people) don't agree with nudity at a secluded, historically naturist beach somewhere(hypothetical argument) it should be banned?

Be careful what you are proposing to ban - it can be turned around so that you are the victim here. (Burger eaters are victims too!!)

Max

Trailscout

04-16-2003, 05:06 PM

Aren't young people more willing to change than we give them credit for?

I realize that many teens and twenty-somethings won't go to a nude venue because they fear becoming an object of lust or conversely, poor physical self-image may be keeping them hiding behind their body-concealing clothes. For others being nude in front of others is just embarassing.

But, what if a small group of these body-shy young people stumbles upon a beach where a large number of people are sunning nude, playing volleyball nude, surfing and swimming nude?

Maybe in the face of overwhelming nudity, some of these shy ones would give it a try.

I went through a body-shy phase myself, but when I turned 21, a classmate of mine, a new friend, talked me into skinnydipping with her at a lake. It was a turning point for me and how I felt about being open with others both physically and emotionally. This turning point can happen with different people in different ways, but I am convinced that the present generation is not doomed to a life of body shame!

florida-david

04-16-2003, 06:41 PM

HAH !!! the young people i know of are more conservative and boring than we give them credit for. sure they blare annoying rap, sport wierd hairstyle, dress funny, but underneath it all, they sheepishly fall into the molds that they are supposed to fall into. they are commercially brainwashed, desiring to be different but they keep falling back into the mould that shapes them and their generation. they eat at mcdonald's and think its normal. so maybe we should have a nudist resort with a mcdonalds in it, it would probably be paradise lakes or another of those mega commercialized resorts. i for one find mcdonalds evil, they hire unskilled people at low rates, mess up the order every time, and the fast food is no longer fast nor cheap. why do you think mcdonalds bought boston market? because they are heading DOWN baby..... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Trailscout

04-16-2003, 07:54 PM

Florida David,

You will get no argument from me about McDonald's or any number of fast food places. Humans were not designed to eat that stuff.

If you look at the big picture, returning to our normal nude state should be part of a much longer list of behavior and lifestyle changes that we would do well to return to:
Being outdoors - Enjoying the visual stimulation of a natural landscape,
being physically active (not sedentary)
Living in community, not in isolation or anonymity
A diet that is largely fruits, grains and vegetables
Well, there's a lot more that could be added, but this should serve to make my point.

I don't disagree that "the young people i know of are more conservative and boring than we give them credit for".

But can extremely conservative people change? Yes, if they have a life-changing event, or they adopt a role model, say a professor in school who helps them understand body freedom in a new light.

I know of one very conservative art major who was extremely body-shy until she completed a life drawing class in college. Another friend of mine was equally embarassed by nudity until she got a job as an orderly in a nursing home with a large number of disabled young men. She bathed them head to toe every day. One gets used to nudity after a year or two of such daily encounters with it.

Well, this is fine for artists and medical workers, but how are we going to reach the rest of these bashful young adults?

I don't know any place but nude beaches where people filled with body shame have a chance to see non-sexual social nudity in action. We need to go to nude beaches in big numbers and on a regular basis. We may have to get organized to do this.

Bob S.

04-16-2003, 10:09 PM

Max, we can't agree, can we? I didn't think that was allowed.

OK, going on to the reason for my post:

The "younger generation" receives the most flak because the future depends on them. People have belabored the sorry state of education and see them as misfits who won't be able to handle carrying on the tradition of inheriting society. And these arguments have been made as far back as Plato.

How have most people discovered nudism? My guess is by discovering it rather than being raised in the lifestyle. I, for instance, have seemed to always be a nudist, enjoying being naked as often as I could growing up (in private after puberty) and eventually finding it on the web. That led me to have my first social nudist experience at White Tail Park as well as joining AANR. I'm sure others have had similar experiences.

As for David's suggestion that they are "more conservative" than ever, I believe to be a bit on the mistaken side. We (the US, and possibly the world) as a society have been getting more liberal in certain aspects. Nudity is one of those. Just think about what is allowed on TV now compared to in the 50s. Mr. and Mrs. Cleaver slept in two beds and they wouldn't even think of showing some of the things they show now. Bathing suits have gotten smaller.

The conservative swing is mainly as a backlash against this inevitable evolution. The future will see more young adults involved in nudism, more people in general involved in nudism. When it happens is up for debate.

And I would see a major fast food establishment in a nudist park as a good thing. Anything that brings regular society into a nudist park will bring legitimacy to the lifestyle. And more people.

Bob S

Trailscout

04-17-2003, 12:40 PM

Bob,

Some nudist parks in their current configuration are boring as hell to young folks.

A nudist fun park instead of a nudist rest area would be more likely to attract young folks who might be trying it for the first time.

Oh I'm not talking about anything as big as Disneyworld, but something on the order of a small water park with lots of other sports, games and music would do for starters.

I would tolerate a fast food restaurant inside a nudist park as a means of accomodating junk food junkies, but I would like to have a few healthy alternatives.

An otherwise nearly perfect resort here in my home state offers only burgers and fries at their little poolside restaurant. Some of us would eat healthy food if given the choice.

Doug H

04-17-2003, 06:44 PM

A more "active" style of resort would attract younger folks, but, alas, is also significantly more expensive. And such a resort would also be in competition with existing waterparks and theme parks, which can afford the large scale because of their larger market size. Given the perception of naturist resort clientele being "an over 30" thing probably doesn't help when trying to attract investors in such a venture. I would like to see a mid-scale c/o waterpark in the US, but I'm not sure if the culture is ready for it right now. When we see more legally recognized c/o beaches, then it should become feasible.

Doug H.

Naturist Mark

04-17-2003, 06:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
As for David's suggestion that they are "more conservative" than ever, I believe to be a bit on the mistaken side. We (the US, and possibly the world) as a society have been getting more liberal in certain aspects. Nudity is one of those. Just think about what is allowed on TV now compared to in the 50s. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, look at TV and the movies. Today's young people are exposed to lots of on screen nudity. And it is 100% sexualized. They almost never experience non-sexual nudity anymore. Not in school showers or locker-rooms, not swimming at the Y.

They aren't afraid of sexual nudity, but have little or no concept non-sexual nudity. According to their media indoctrination non-sexual nudity is twisted and gross.

I suppose its a new sort of conservatism.

Trailscout

04-18-2003, 06:02 AM

I'm getting the impression that some of you believe that young people are locked into an anti-naturist mindset.

Jon-Marc's story and that of others prove to me that even middle-aged guys can make major lifestyle changes. Why not young people?

florida-david

04-18-2003, 11:02 AM

it is harder for a young person to break away from the programming recieved due to overly sexualized nudity from the media. they know of know other non-sexual nudity. i told my 17 year old helper about going to haulover, and he was shocked not with knowing that i go there, but shocked that i took my whole family. in his mind, nudity is for sexually based stuff, why go nude otherwise. i get a LOT of my viewpoints from him and what i see on the media, i hope i am wrong, but it seems as though i'm not.

i have an idea - kids love waterslides and other water events and its too expensive to make a nudist water theme park, well how about if some of the resorts have a national nude young people day and bring in amusements to please kids of all ages. let the kids have the run of the pool, bring in a bounce house for the little ones, put out a large sheet of plastic with water running on it so the kids can slide off into the sunset, put out lots of hoses squirting water in the air, etc. etc. the problem with the nudist "movement" is that they really only want to cater to the over 30 crowd, the young families (like mine) can enjoy themselves because we have one another to amuse ourselves, but its too hard to coordinate a meeting of the young. maybe i will win the lottery and buy a nudist resort and then i can do all these things i can only dream of now....

Doug H

04-19-2003, 09:41 AM

An open-house style, carnival and fun fair with the active activities that young people like. An eminently practical suggestion. A travelling show going from resort-to-resort could be commercially viable. Whether it could be done on a national basis is a good question, but regionally it ought to be possible. And if a national organization were to 'sponsor' it, that might lend some genuineness to the event(s) for the skeptics on both sides.

Doug H.

Croydon

04-19-2003, 11:37 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by florida-david:

i have an idea - kids love waterslides and other water events and its too expensive to make a nudist water theme park, well how about if some of the resorts have a national nude young people day and bring in amusements to please kids of all ages. let the kids have the run of the pool, bring in a bounce house for the little ones, put out a large sheet of plastic with water running on it so the kids can slide off into the sunset, put out lots of hoses squirting water in the air, etc. etc. the problem with the nudist "movement" is that they really only want to cater to the over 30 crowd, the young families (like mine) can enjoy themselves because we have one another to amuse ourselves, but its too hard to coordinate a meeting of the young. maybe i will win the lottery and buy a nudist resort and then i can do all these things i can only dream of now.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is this an idea for young nudist children, i.e. not young adult nudist? If this is for young kids (not teens of young adults) then your idea is fine. But if it is to attract young adults, I find the idea to be a bit stupid. To attract young adults into nudism is a very difficult thing b.c nudism is not something you can advertize to people and get them interested. Nudism is something that is discovered. We discover nudism. The problem in nudist community in terms of getting young adults is that nudist parents, resort/club owners don't find the issue of young adults in nudism their issue or their priority. Essentially, they don't care too much. If they did, then I think many would make a good effort to keep kids who are raised as nudist within the community as they hit teen years b/c majority of kids raised nudist end up leaving. The young adults that are nudist do not consider themselves nudist honestly. As a 21 y/o, I don't think I would call myself a nudist but rather a nude beach goer. Many young adults who do go naked tend to go to beaches b/c nudist resorts are too expensive, not many activities that interest young adults and many have the no single male rule and that automatically turns away young male who make large % of nudist.

For young people to take an active role in nudism, the mentality of many need to change. i seriously think the American nudist community is going down the tubes b/c there are not many young adults to take over. Think about it, why are so many nudist activitist middle age people. Why are so many few young adults promoting nudism?

Bryony H

04-19-2003, 12:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
For young people to take an active role in nudism, the mentality of many need to change. i seriously think the American nudist community is going down the tubes b/c there are not many young adults to take over. Think about it, why are so many nudist activitist middle age people. Why are so many few young adults promoting nudism?[/QB] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think that you have indicated just one of the things that makes it difficult for young people to enter into naturism...the image of the lifestyle as middle aged.

Many children are brought up naturists and when they hit late teens they drift away, this could be explained in part by the young peoples need to assert their independance, and partly by embarisment brought on by puberty and peer pressure. However, none of those explanations really covers the whole story, many people loose interest as they get board, there is nothing for them to do! Most of the people on committees of clubs and organisations have little understanding of the way young people view the world and how we want to spend our time, some even seem shocked at some of the things many of us would like to do!

This is not a critisism as such, it is just the way things are. what is a thing that causes me some problems though is when those people do not recognise this and give young people the chance to organise some things for themselves. I have heard that some in the CCBN (british natuist organisation) actually oppose the YBN, yet at the same time bemone the shrinking membership of their group, to those I say...WAKE UP!! Young people have the ability to run activities and determine their own needs, give them support and they will grow, block them and the organisation dies.

If young adults and teenagers want things to happen, then they will need to do things themselves. If there is a group such as YBN neer you and you are of an age to benefit from it, then get on and join in, make things happen and enjoy being naked with many friends.

There are many activities going on in the UK this summer and people need to get into contact with Ben (roversfan - on this site) to find out more.

I want to get to as many meets as I can this summer to wave the flag for young naturists.

But enough of my ranting, there have been some good ideas on this thread, lets hope that there are enough committed people to get them going.

Keep nude!

B

Trailscout

04-19-2003, 01:12 PM

We should work to make nudity easier to achieve for children, teens, and young adults.

Helping children develop good body image and providing safe places for them to enjoy life in the nude is a commendable goal. It may not directly help teens and young adults, but in the long run, I see benefits.
It is unfortunate when nudist kids become ashamed to be nude when they reach their teens, but I believe that for many of them abandoning nudist values is only temporary. (We can help shorten this lapse).

Bryony is also correct when she suggests that many people who swim nude at the beach or at a secluded pool in a river do not regard themselves as nudists. For some it can be a transition to nudism. It was for me and a few friends. For those who never identify as nudists, at least they may be more tolerant of those of us who are.

Maybe our goal for body freedom should not culminate in membership in a private nudist resort. That's fine for some, but it is elitist to suggest that everyone should aspire to that.

I think we should push hard for more nude beaches and even nude recreation parks. Many a time people have stumbled upon them and seen for themselves that nude recreation is just innocent fun and that it is common sense not to wear anything when the weather is warm.

One can hope that from such beginnings more people would start going nude at home, in the garden and perhaps they will teach their children not to be so self-conscious and full of shame about the body.

florida-david

04-19-2003, 09:12 PM

in my pevious ranting, i was thinking of activities to keep the 6 y/o to 12 y/o kids happy. i have no clue what to do after the kids hit puberty, as my oldest kid is currently 9. maybe some of the young adults can suggest activities? so far, the talk seems depressing....

fanrlawyer

04-20-2003, 05:41 AM

One of the most enjoyable activities I have done at any nudist resort was sliding down the hill at Turtle Lake in Michigan. Whole families lined up again and again to soap up and slide down the watered plastic sheet. Kids of all ages were loving it. Now if we could just import a hill like that to Lake Como...

fanrlawyer

04-20-2003, 06:36 AM

Another particularly enjoyable activity is nude food fights. Kids love sharing a giant banana split with syrup and toppings and ice cream everywhere and on everyone.
The general point is, enjoying activities with peers and family makes the kids want to come out. Just going someplace and being nude without the peers and the fun is a non-starter.
Parents, find the places with active youth programs if you want to bring up happy nudist youngsters.

gamblefish

04-20-2003, 09:14 AM

Personally, I find food fights in poor taste... /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I like croydon's post above. I'll not repeat it here because of its length.

Why do we need to "target" anybody? Like croydon said, nudism is something to be discovered and enjoyed, not marketed and sold.

Or is nudism turning into a lucrative enterprise? Is big business gonna get ahold of it and turn it into McNudism? I kind of like the idea that nudism is not "mainstream". When something becomes wildly popular, then it usually is ruined at the same time.

Suntied

04-20-2003, 09:34 AM

Gamblefish,
Believe it or not, I disagree with you.

I have to go to the bank, and to do that I have to get dressed. Now, if nudity were popular and mainstream, I would have done it already. Since it isn't and is this big secret society, I have been procrastinating for I do not want to ever have any clothes on. Of coarse, I'll never see it my lifetime. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

On my way to the bank, I may stop at McDonalds and special order a Quarter Pounder... I'll say, "Make it Naked." Oh my... the shock!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

You've been taking your medication I see,
/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Suntied /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Naturist Mark

04-20-2003, 12:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Suntied:
On my way to the bank, I may stop at McDonalds and special order a Quarter Pounder... I'll say, "Make it Naked." Oh my... the shock!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good luck with that... my experience with the McD factory is that they have to make two or three attempts to get a 'plain' burger order right... They have to think to avoid dressing it the usual way, and of course 'thinking' is discouraged.

But maybe you are onto something... the shock of asking for it 'naked' instead of plain might do the trick. Better yet, drive up to the window naked.

Just as a sociological experiment of course. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

-Mark

Suntied

04-20-2003, 02:26 PM

A sociological experiment turned into misdameanor imprisonment. You try it first... I dare ya... no I double dare ya!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Of coarse we would be exposing the younger crowd to naturism, but I don't think they would think of it that way. The tellers or the cops. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

By the way, I went to the bank and didn't get any Mickey D's... I know how to cook. I still had to put those dang gummed clothes on... but they are off again... I feel better. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Time to eat/cook,
/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Suntied /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Trailscout

04-20-2003, 02:51 PM

Florida Dave,

Nudist teens have been seen doing the following:

Girls:
Endless talking with other teen girls, dancing, swimming, and perfecting their tans.

Boys:
Being couch potatoes in front of sporting events, playing volleyball, working out, playing Risk and other board games, eating lots of food.

gamblefish

04-20-2003, 06:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Suntied:
Gamblefish,
Believe it or not, I disagree with you.

I have to go to the bank, and to do that I have to get dressed. Now, if nudity were popular and mainstream, I would have done it already. Since it isn't and is this big secret society, I have been procrastinating for I do not want to ever have any clothes on. Of coarse, I'll never see it my lifetime. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

You've been taking your medication I see,
/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Suntied /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Suntied, you rebel you. How dare you disagree with me. I hope the ATM machine gets rude with you.

OK, I see your point and it is good. I don't know what I was thinking. More medication, please.

It would be cool to do our everyday errands nude if practical and possible. But, as you so wisely noted, this probably will never happen in our lifetimes.

Bob S.

04-20-2003, 10:46 PM

We all know what needs to get done to attrract a certain crowd. For the parents of young children, have activities suited for their children. For the teens, solo (or very litte-supervised) activities that the kids can do.

What about Nudestock? What kinds of acts does that attract? The college bands?

It's all about pandering to the specific demographic that you want to attract. That and of course getting the word out.

Bob S.

stevenf64

04-21-2003, 02:04 PM

Suntied we dont have to take your dare because you did not double dog dare us. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Croydon

04-21-2003, 02:11 PM

The nudestock would be a perfect oppurtunity to get the word out on nudism among young adults. Young adults love music so a musical festival is perfect. Sadly, the music played at nudestock are not geared to young adults. It is mostly 60s stuff.

Playing more "young" music will defintly get young adults in.

Hokienudist

04-21-2003, 03:10 PM

I'm not sure a thing like nudestock would work cause i think to get the more younger type bands there, ie the limpbizkit's, etc., you would need a ton of cash and most of those bands probably wouldnt do such a thing.

I think advertising is the answer, the minds of America have to open up before we can truely wish for things such as a mainstream nudestock.

Bartamus

04-21-2003, 04:50 PM

Hokienudist: I think you're right. Last year's nudestock at Sacramento's Laguna Del Sol featured 60's tribute bands. They were good but
the crowd with the exception of the INA staff
were older folks

Croydon

04-22-2003, 10:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hokienudist:
I'm not sure a thing like nudestock would work cause i think to get the more younger type bands there, ie the limpbizkit's, etc., you would need a ton of cash and most of those bands probably wouldnt do such a thing.

I think advertising is the answer, the minds of America have to open up before we can truely wish for things such as a mainstream nudestock. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You can still appeal to younger generation through nudestock. One doesn't need to call on Limpbizkit (who sucks by the way and are not really popular anymore). I am sure a lot of young bands out there looking for gigs. You can always ask popular local bands among young people in the area

Hokienudist

04-22-2003, 01:05 PM

I agree with your idea Croydon, but i have to disagree limpbizkit rules, and is very much a popular band. But to each his own. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

steve1979

04-27-2008, 10:04 PM

welcome to the club candy, good for you and the club

Popcorntreect

04-28-2008, 12:30 AM

I don't think nudestock is a good idea. Livestock is an outdoor music festival that has degraded into a bunch of rednecks shouting "show us your tits" to every female they see. I think nudestock works for the older generation because they are more mature. Nudestock for young people would be as they say sex, drugs, and rock n roll.

Fitz1980

04-28-2008, 09:41 AM

I disagree about it being that much of an age thing. When I saw Metallica in concert it was more of the older folks flashing and screaming for tits. Same thing with motorcycle rallies, lots of older guys and gals flashing and getting crazy. The young don't have a monopoly on sex, drugs and rock and roll. Go see Jimmy Buffet or Tom Petty in concert some time, those older folks often have better marijuana than the kids at Projekt Revolution (sic) because they can afford the good stuff. Not that I condone drug use or anything.

Here's an event that I hope to attend. X-Bash, it's a clothing optional rave at River Boat Nudist resort near Tampa, FL.

http://events.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.detail&eventID=422407.46196&Mytoken=1DBB622A-4B7D-43EB-9C5F7E9DD923852487698548

It's organized by the resort owner's daughter XZanthia on the week of her birthday. I had never even heard of River Boat Resort until a few weeks back when I met XZanthia on myspace, she's a nudist aspiring filmmaker, just like me. Oh and she's cute.

You can see pics from previous X-Bashes on her website, here.
http://www.xzanthia.com/xbash.htm

DoctorSurferDude

04-28-2008, 09:13 PM

DoctorSurferDude

04-28-2008, 09:22 PM

They hosted an event in the past called "Planet Nude" which was basically the Nudes-a-poppin of the south. A real winner....if you are into strippers and porn stars. So on principle, I consider them worth boycotting, AANR does not list them, that's a pretty good screening tool.

Fitz1980

04-29-2008, 09:11 AM

zharth

04-29-2008, 05:23 PM

What if a conventional water park were...to negotiate a regularly scheduled nudist day?

I think this is a fantastic idea. How great would it be to head down to the local water park in the middle of summer for Nudist Day? I'd be there in a flash! To me, it just seems perfect - sun, water, and nudity. Plus, it's an activity that's not restricted to coastal areas.

I'm almost surprised that such a thing isn't already the norm. But then I remember that even if it were only one day out of the whole year, would there really be enough interest? And furthermore, what would happen if all the wrong people showed up for all the wrong reasons?

It's so depressing. One good seed is ruined by a poisonous apple...

Fitz1980

04-29-2008, 09:46 PM

A few years back there was a water park (in California, I think) that was going to let a nudist group rent out the part for 1 day and do a special nude day. People were planning vacations from miles around to attend. Than the water park pulled the plug on the whole thing when some religious conservatives got wind, stirred up some people and threatened to boycott the park for the rest of the year if they allowed it.

Sacramento Jesse

04-29-2008, 11:55 PM

I can't speak for every young person (what are we defining as "young?") but I can tell you that as a 25 year old male, it's hard to get someone to go with you sometimes. It's hard enough to get together with my friends even when we're clothed. My friends are very busy people with school, work, other friends, family, and bf/gfs.

Not saying that I need someone to go with me, but it would be nice to have a friend come along for the ride. It's a lot easier to go skinny dipping at a friend's house, or go to a local nude beach/swimming hole. A lot less hassle because there is privacy and security when you're just with friends. I'm not sweating the $25-$30 day pass most resorts charge. It's a small price to pay for the atmosphere.

For my friends who do enjoy social nudism with me, getting together to be naked isn't on their priority list. For them maybe once a year is fine.

Fitz1980

04-30-2008, 08:08 AM

Careful about that Fritz.....you might not like it.

BTW I'm Fitz, not Fritz. I'm an Irishman not a cartoon cat.

10 pts for the reference.

Wcstflyer

05-01-2008, 06:57 AM

Careful about that Fritz.....you might not like it.

Riverboat has a bit of a "reputation". Sort of more of a hedonist one than a nudist one. They've held....contests.....guess who showed up? (not me).

Riverboat is something of a misnomer as there is no river and no boat; nothing but a small and odd collection of rusting mobile homes at the end of a road that remained unpaved until recently. Whatever hedonistic games were being played there, Riverboat remained below the Pasco county radar until a woman burned to death in one of the trailers last July.

Instead, people may want to try the Caliente Resort located a few hundred yards to the west on the same Caliente Blvd. where there is a first class resort and people have a full complement of front incisors (teeth.) :D

nudenwv

05-02-2008, 06:22 AM

it's getting expensive for everyone to enjoy a nudist venue! with the price of gas and dishing out for food and lodging. i understand that this is a reqreation and like all others they need money to run too. some are offering a discount if you're an aanr member and also cutting down on their day fees. this helps a lot. if i ever run out of gas i hope it's at a nudist resort/lodge/landed/non-landed club/nudist friends.

Bobby Hill

05-07-2008, 12:14 AM

Riverboat is something of a misnomer as there is no river and no boat; nothing but a small and odd collection of rusting mobile homes at the end of a road that remained unpaved until recently. Whatever hedonistic games were being played there, Riverboat remained below the Pasco county radar until a woman burned to death in one of the trailers last July.

Instead, people may want to try the Caliente Resort located a few hundred yards to the west on the same Caliente Blvd. where there is a first class resort and people have a full complement of front incisors (teeth.) :D

Caliente is a place that seems suspicious. They have Adults only Nights. Seems like they are up to no good.

DoctorSurferDude

05-08-2008, 07:01 AM

Lake Como is the only traditional resort in Pasco County. The "fancy ones" you can follow a money trail.....where traditional values are sold off to the highest bidder.

DCrocker

05-17-2008, 10:23 PM

I'm 26 and I've been going to nude beaches since I was 19 or 20. it depends on the area. from personal experience, I've seen younger people mostly in europe and in south florida.

Croydon

05-18-2008, 03:33 AM

I'm 26 and I've been going to nude beaches since I was 19 or 20. it depends on the area. from personal experience, I've seen younger people mostly in europe and in south florida.

I find that public nude beaches will have a lot of young adults. I have been Haulover and Sandy Hook beach a handful of times and have always encountered young adults. Both beaches are in or near large cities and are easily accessible. In addition, they are popular, well known beaches.

Nudist resorts are a bit different than nude beaches. Many are not accessible, they are far away from major metropolitan cities. There is also the cost factor. It is much cheaper heading to the beach than it is to a resort. In addition, young people go where other young people are and the demographic of resorts doesn't scream an invitation for young people. For many resorts, almost everything is catered around the taste of older people. Very few activities would interest young people.

DCrocker

05-18-2008, 08:36 AM

I totally agree. I am not involved with any actual nudist resorts or communities, but I do go to beaches where nudity is allowed quite often.

usuallylurk

05-18-2008, 10:03 AM

I find that public nude beaches will have a lot of young adults. I have been Haulover and Sandy Hook beach a handful of times and have always encountered young adults. Both beaches are in or near large cities and are easily accessible. In addition, they are popular, well known beaches.

Nudist resorts are a bit different than nude beaches. Many are not accessible, they are far away from major metropolitan cities. There is also the cost factor. It is much cheaper heading to the beach than it is to a resort. In addition, young people go where other young people are and the demographic of resorts doesn't scream an invitation for young people. For many resorts, almost everything is catered around the taste of older people. Very few activities would interest young people.

I agree -- but there are some bigger events that do reach out to the young adult set. One of the biggest events held annually is the Volleyball Super Bowl at White Thorn Lodge in Pennsylvania.

The Naturist Festivals and Gatherings do offer some opportunities.

But, let's get down to it -- some of this "I can't go there because there are no younger people" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. We sometimes hear the same things about resorts and groups that are predominately male.

Of course, if younger people stay away, there won't be any younger people there. It would probably be a good idea for resorts and clubs to offer an "under 30 rate" for a limited number of visits -- or do it on special occasions. The problem with an under-30 rate is that seniors would come up and say "oh.. wait, how about a senior citizens' rate???"

Another factor -- are people under 25 , who are working, actually impoverished? Are they less able to pay a $20-30 day fee than someone who's in their 40s and have kids?