AANR Getting Obsolete

[Sanslines]

Can we continue our discussion of AANR 'sanctions' et al here without any links to pornographic sites or other TOS violations?

[Sanslines]

Can we continue our discussion of AANR 'sanctions' et al here without any links to pornographic sites or other TOS violations?

[Sanslines]

"Walt, when I posted the original statement cited i was refering to "sanction" as "offically recognizing" and Awarding the ASA Certificate and/or Plaque to display at the so awarded club, not "sanction" as negative or non-endorsement of a club......"


Walt, with this clarification, were ASA certificates or plaques witheld from clubs that supported singles and if so what was the importance of having such certificates or plaques concerning the operations of such clubs? I have never known a club to operate differently with or without a certificate or plaque from AANR. If AANR did not withold endorsements from clubs that supported singles then what real difference would lack of a certificate or plaque make other then not having something to hang on a wall or place on top of a counter by the club's entrance?

[NakedGary]

Yes by all means and here is the link in reference to previous Poll comments posted on a poll title "AANR Getting Obsolete"

Link to previous comments on Poll title "AANR Getting Obsolete (http://clothesfreeforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3400016152/m/8630044034/r/9660017034#9660017034)

One point I would like to mention if not already mentioned previously:

AANR policy deals with a clubs certification or qualification of becoming an affiliated or sanctioned resort or club.

AANR has not much to do, say or dictate individual club policies, rules, or admittance restrictions to singles, wearing of genital jewelry or restrictions on wearing clothing. The managers and owners of private clubs and resorts make their own rules, restrictions and codes of conduct.

[nacktman]

Sanslines you are confusing apples and oranges.

The "old guard" of the ASA was the owners and operators of the clubs and therefore the policy toward singles was an ASA policy.

Newer owners and operators began to think out side the box to coin a phrase and began to alter the offical ASA policies even to the revamping of the association name and image ... AANR.

These changes began due to outside influences, i.e., TNS and similar "beachgroups" taking away membership in the mid 1980's. By the mid 1990's the "old guard' was no longer in power as they were fewer of them due to their deaths, or "retirement" from active management and the newer owners and managers elected to embrace the more liberal gate policies that most clubs have today as a means of retaining and growing membership.
To somewhat limited success, the requirement that all members of a "sanctioned" club be members of AANR is a hold over from the old ASA days, and that is what has kept the membership up in AANR.

However the overwhelming majority of nudists either do not join a club (many due to the mandatory AANR membership) or they join TNS or INF and receive discounts on fees when they visit a club (they used to receive the same discounts as AANR members but that too has been changed due to AANR policy, clubs that do grant the same discounts for TNS and INF members stand to lose their AANR affiliation), if they join any organization at all.

ASA/AANR is obsolete and is on a path to extinction, it still has the 'good ol'boy' make-up it had 20 years ago and cannot survive much longer without a major overhaul ... the business plan is still rooted in the 1930's with just a new ribbon tied to the box and that style of business plan hasn't been successful in 50 years.

[Walt Iliff]

Well, I guess that time will tell and we all believe what we choose to believe, whether it makes sense or not. Why AANR would penalize themselves by withdrawing "sanctioning" (whatever the hell THAT is) of a club for giving discounts to members of TNS or INA or AARP or the NRA for that matter would be so consummately stupid as to boggle the mind of the feeblest moron. But if one chooses to believe.....

Personally, I think that there is more than enough room in the various organizations to accomodate everyone. AANR may not be everyone's cup of tea. TNS may not be. THat's why God, in his infinite wisdom, created chocolate and vanilla.

Walt Iliff

[Sanslines]

Here is another tidbit of information. If you go to several Canadian clubs (in Southern Ontario that I am familiar with) , many require not only membership in a recognized nudist organization but also that you belong to a 'home club' in order to receive a discount. I do support TNS but sadly find that belonging to TNS is not sufficient to enjoy the same level of discount that belonging to an AANR club does.

[Sanslines]

The history of ASA and AANR is well documented in this June's edition of the Bulletin. In addition, a young single by the name of Halsie is running for one of the AANR East director positions. It would be great to see a young single represent both youth and single issues at AANR. Positive changes are under way and as time goes on more and more younger and single people will become AANR leaders. Now if only we could establish on line voting as an option to snail mail voting........

[Walt Iliff]

Sanslines,

As you know, the AANR elections are on line and AANR East is not too far behind. Please be patient, hopefully by next year, there will be a motion on the mail ballot asking for authorization to switch to on line balloting. As you know, the mail ballot is part of the by laws and ruling documents of AANR East, and as such can only be changed by a vote of the membership. Are you coming to the convention/festival/celebration in July? If not, the delegate from your club could bring this issue up at the regional meeting.

Fot all of you who haven't voted yet, I have known Halsie for a couple of years. She is bright, energetic, and a real asset to nudism and I hope that she will be elected. I chose not to run again this year. Four years was plenty.

Walt Iliff

[Sanslines]

Hi Walt,

I will try to come to the convention in July. Summer is going by fast. I need to play volleyball on each good weekend that we have here in preparation for White Thorn Superbowl. My club might send 3 teams this year. I might want to play men's B level on the wonderful sand courts that White Thorn has. I do think that Halsie will win. She will be a great asset to AANR as she can be the focus for youth and sports related activities. I hope to support her in getting more clubs to more actively promote health and sport related activities. This is what the younger memebers really want and health and fitness would be a great advertising and marketing promotion advantage for AANR.

[stephen russell]

Yes I feel its dated
Wont accept singles- men or women
Uptight
Nude prudes
1950s thinking
NOT progressive (ideas, marketting)
dated Mgmt
Very Corporate
NO Incentives for singles to Join
Just Pro Couples & Families.
Too few Camps alone.
Went to Glen Eden & never felt I fit in.
NO singles events for Guests or Planned
IE Games, tour, etc.
Nothing
& Im 51 now.
NO creativity seen.
NO singles=NO members=No Income=NO AANR.
SingleBoomers
Single GenX
can keep AANR alive.
BUT bias to singles.
Glen eden has singles group BUT for those over 60.
No one around 40-50 in group.
That was 2003.

Comments
Anyone have similar???

Id love to see TNS & CFI merge & takeover AANR camp mgmt since AANR would have to SELL camp/s for funding????
All, some camps???
TNS &CFI can then plan Beach Camps, Forest camps,
From idle acerage alone.
Ez AANR types can come to CFI.
Wow.

The best thing these new camps do is revive the old ASA(now AANR) Pagent events.
Otherwise archieve its History & close the doors.
CFI takes over AANR FL Hqs.

Doable
Viable???

Plus link to CFI Travel alone & were halfway Home which AANR has no Travel section.
Plus Nudecasters.
CFI is Progrssive & Up to date.
Thanks Corey.

[Sanslines]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stephen russell:
Yes I feel its dated
Wont accept singles- men or women
Uptight
Nude prudes
1950s thinking
NOT progressive (ideas, marketting)
dated Mgmt
Very Corporate
NO Incentives for singles to Join
Just Pro Couples & Families.
Too few Camps alone.
Went to Glen Eden & never felt I fit in.
NO singles events for Guests or Planned
IE Games, tour, etc.
Nothing
& Im 51 now.
NO creativity seen.
NO singles=NO members=No Income=NO AANR.
SingleBoomers
Single GenX
can keep AANR alive.
BUT bias to singles.
Glen eden has singles group BUT for those over 60.
No one around 40-50 in group.
That was 2003.

Comments
Anyone have similar???

Id love to see TNS & CFI merge & takeover AANR camp mgmt since AANR would have to SELL camp/s for funding????
All, some camps???
TNS &CFI can then plan Beach Camps, Forest camps,
From idle acerage alone.
Ez AANR types can come to CFI.
Wow.

The best thing these new camps do is revive the old ASA(now AANR) Pagent events.
Otherwise archieve its History & close the doors.
CFI takes over AANR FL Hqs.

Doable
Viable???

Plus link to CFI Travel alone & were halfway Home which AANR has no Travel section.
Plus Nudecasters.
CFI is Progrssive & Up to date.
Thanks Corey. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Concerning your observations of Glen Eden and not fitting in. Did you ever try indoor volleyball? Everyone is very friendly there. Have you shared your interests with one of the ladies who works at the front desk and asked if there are others who share your interests so they could introduce you to others? Perhaps you would like companionship when hiking the trail? Maby you would like to learn to play tennis and just need to be introduced to others at your level? Perhaps you want to play volleyball on the outdoor court but need to learn and so need to find others at your level or want to attend one of the beginner volleyball clinics? Perhaps a game of horseshoes? At Glen Eden, there are many activities gong on but it is just a matter of sharing a common interest with others and perhaps the best way to do this is to talk with a Glen Eden staff member at the front desk.

P.S. Another thing I might add is that many people come to Glen Eden from Los Angeles. They are tired from a week of not only hectic jobs, but also fighting the never ending gridlock of LA traffic. The come to Glen Eden to basically catch up on badly needed sleep and might not be in the most sociable mood while they are resting/sleeping.

If you ever get to upstate New York, you will find the clubs to be very singles welcoming. There is no discrimination against anyone. As Summer is so short around these parts, who has time to waste our precious warm and sunny Summer days discriminating against others.

[Sanslines]

Concerning AANR, yes it would be great if AANR would reach out to all nudists instead of pretty much limiting themselves to the clubs. However (correct me if I am wrong here) but I believe that there is some agreement between AANR and TNS so that they do not step on each other's toes. TNS is supposed to be for 'free beaches' but TNS seems to reach out to all nudists regardless of who you are. Their publication, N, covers a very wide aspect of nudism including art related topics, photography, literature, etc. AANR seems to restrict themselves to clubs and from personal experience does not seem to be interested in assisting in promoting non club related nudist activities. I wish that things were different but I am not sure if the agreements will allow AANR to promote nudism beyond the clubs. Concerning making positive changes at AANR, this can be done but it is much better to be part of AANR and work to establish positive changes within rather then from the outside.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stephen russell:
Yes I feel its dated Wont accept singles- men or women
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh? Anyone can join AANR.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Uptight Nude prudes 1950s thinking NOT progressive (ideas, marketting)
dated Mgmt Very Corporate
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think so. I have issues with AANR, but if you were to visit some of the Florida super resorts, you would certainly not find the places prudish or non-progressive.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

NO Incentives for singles to Join
Just Pro Couples & Families.
Too few Camps alone.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh? Some clubs won't admit singles WITHOUT the AANR memberships. And AANR is hosting regional conventions. And there are a lot of places that DO admit singles.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Went to Glen Eden & never felt I fit in.
NO singles events for Guests or Planned
IE Games, tour, etc.
Nothing
& Im 51 now.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what does that have to do with AANR? Glen Eden is a cooperatively held club. It has an AANR affiliation, but AANR doesn't tell them how to run their club.

If you didn't feel you fit in on any club visit, that's either the members of a club, or you, or both. Not AANR's doing.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
NO creativity seen.
NO singles=NO members=No Income=NO AANR.
SingleBoomers
Single GenX
can keep AANR alive.
BUT bias to singles.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You visited one club and it didn't cater to your needs. Why are you blaming AANR?
Have you considered visiting other clubs? If you're in "Glen Eden Land" -- there are several other clubs and groups in Southern California.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Glen eden has singles group BUT for those over 60.
No one around 40-50 in group.
That was 2003.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Three years ago. Now, you're blaming AANR because you had a lousy day at one of their parks. What have you done since that time? Did you visit any of the others in Southern California? Did you try any non-landed groups? Did you go to a TNS Festival, Gathering, or AANR convention?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Comments
Anyone have similar???
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heard similar from singles who visit different parks and they complain "I didn't fit in". But often it's the individuals themselves.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Id love to see TNS & CFI merge & takeover AANR camp mgmt since AANR would have to SELL camp/s for funding????
All, some camps???
TNS &CFI can then plan Beach Camps, Forest camps,
From idle acerage alone.
Ez AANR types can come to CFI.
Wow.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you need a little education here. I don't think you understand what AANR and TNS do.

AANR does not run, own, or control the clubs. AANR does not tell individual clubs what to do. Neither does TNS. So AANR cannot sell what they don't own.

AANR is an organization based in Kissimmee, Florida. It has around 44,000 members. It has a couple hundred clubs affiliated with them. They provide services and information to the clubs -- mostly promotional, legislative, legal, and business guidance.

They do NOT and are not in a position to tell clubs what events to have, what gate policies to enforce. and they ** DO NOT OWN CLUBS **. AANR does not own Glen Eden. The Glen Eden members own Glen Eden. They make the rules and set the tone. Not AANR.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The best thing these new camps do is revive the old ASA(now AANR) Pagent events.
Otherwise archieve its History & close the doors.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, I don't think you realize what has gone on -- and I don't think you understand WHY those pageants were eliminated from AANR and regional conventions.

They were dropped -- officially -- thankfully - because body appearance was not supposed to be a factor for nudists. Indeed, the "King and Queen" pageants turned off more people (especially prospective women members) than attracted them. They caused more harm than good. Most members just didn't want them anymore. And while I can't speak for the CFI owners, I think that they're in tune with that as well.

The other reason that they were dropped is that some elements in the pornography biz started hosting stripper contests, featuring sexually explicit behavior and calling it "nudist". One nudist park (not affiliated with either TNS or AANR or CFI -- you won't find it listed on CFI's search engine) converts itself for a long weekend every year and hosts such an event. They invite porn stars, nude dancers, etc.

So as a result, what most of us would call "legitimate nudism" distances itself from the pageant concept and has done so for 25 years.

"Pageants" are passe, even in the textile world. The "Miss America Pageant" was, at one time, a huge television draw and a huge tourist draw to Atlantic City. It is now fighting for its life. It was dumped by the TV networks after lack of viewers in 2004. There was one in 2005-- in Vegas, picked up by a not-so-prominent cable channel, which will hold a series of "reality shows" but they have no date or location for the final pageant session.

Most will agree that the Miss America pageant has seen its better days.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
CFI takes over AANR FL Hqs.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How? CFI has minimal affiliation with clubs across the country. It has no legal arm, no lobbying wing, as far as I see, not much of an organization on the ground, no educational foundation, no conventions, no festivals, no gatherings.

Most who frequent nudist parks aren't even aware that CFI exists.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Doable
Viable???
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. And hell, no.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Plus link to CFI Travel alone & were halfway Home which AANR has no Travel section.
Plus Nudecasters.CFI is Progrssive & Up to date.
Thanks Corey. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That I agree with. The problem is that beyond this website, and other than a few appearances at different public events, CFI is not heavily involved with what would be "organized nudism".

It would be nice if they went out and visited the clubs -- and they very well could spread influence and grow if they did. There is nothing stopping them from going "on tour".

Next week there's going to be a major gathering in Massachusetts. It would be wonderful if CFI were there. I don't think they're going to be.


Finally - a comment. It looks like you went to Glen Eden, spent a day there and didn't have a good time.

First of all, don't give up on nudism because of one bad experience. If a club is predominately families and couples, you've got to remember its focus -- and like society in general, families and couples prefer the company of other families and couples. They have more in common.

Second - if they let you in for a visit, it meant that they welcomed singles, at least on that day. Once you're beyond the initial niceties -- THE REST IS UP TO YOU. If you expected a group of people to drag you into their circle of friends and welcome you as you might be in church social, you may have expected too much.

Most parks have sports, games, and social events. Did you get involved in those?

OK, maybe you didn't have a good time at that one club. Do you expect AANR to do anything about that? Sounds like more of either a) an individual club problem or b) a Steven problem or c) both.

I've never been to Glen Eden. I cannot comment on your particular experience, but I would like to visit there someday when the chance comes up.

My suggestion - if you didn't like it there, try another club.

But don't blame AANR and wish the group would be condemned to extinction because you had one bad day at one club .

[NakedGary]

I fault AANR, its regional divisions, TNS, Nudist Clubs, their WebPages, and respective webmasters in terrible presentations, communications internally and externally, Public Relations, & advertising in the Promotion of Nude Recreation, Clubs, and even their own major annual events, Board meetings, and festivals at their own sanctioned clubs and resorts. They are still hanging on to Pre- Digital, Pre-Web 1960's ideas, [TNS excluded] and some do not want to promote, change, improve, or realize their members and their children will be the one's to replace them, but at present there is a huge void of young, college aged, and progressive thinking members to effectively promote and further nude recreation in this digital, multimedia, and world wide Web instant means of effective communications world wide.

More than once I have been a delegate, photographer, or just interested in participating or attending board meetings, major events, or festivals, and in searching Club web pages, CFI's Ultimate Calendar of Events (http://www.nudistexplorer.com/cgi-bin/webcal/webcal.pl) for place held, time, date, and schedules of events, found that the AANR & AANR-West [Event in their Region] failed to even post about the event on their own web page and Calendar of Events part of their web site!

CFI/CFF & the public News, Newspapers, Wire Services, and Web based agencies do a better job of promoting nude recreation, facilities, and events than any of the Organizations or sanction nudist clubs and resorts do.

It was only last year when AANR finally realized they were not being effective in promotion, communication, or public relations that they farmed out their Public Relations, advertising, and web page design to outside sources. The Regionals, Clubs, and Resorts ought to follow in their communications to their members, internally, externally, and to the public.


The New AANR Web Site Designed by "Captian Jack Communictions" link at bottom of 1st or main page (http://www.aanr.com/)

.

[trkrbob]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanslines:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stephen russell:
Yes I feel its dated
Wont accept singles- men or women
Uptight
Nude prudes
1950s thinking
NOT progressive (ideas, marketting)
dated Mgmt
Very Corporate
NO Incentives for singles to Join
Just Pro Couples & Families.
Too few Camps alone.
Went to Glen Eden & never felt I fit in.
NO singles events for Guests or Planned
IE Games, tour, etc.
Nothing
& Im 51 now.
NO creativity seen.
NO singles=NO members=No Income=NO AANR.
SingleBoomers
Single GenX
can keep AANR alive.
BUT bias to singles.
Glen eden has singles group BUT for those over 60.
No one around 40-50 in group.
That was 2003.

Comments
Anyone have similar???

Id love to see TNS & CFI merge & takeover AANR camp mgmt since AANR would have to SELL camp/s for funding????
All, some camps???
TNS &CFI can then plan Beach Camps, Forest camps,
From idle acerage alone.
Ez AANR types can come to CFI.
Wow.

The best thing these new camps do is revive the old ASA(now AANR) Pagent events.
Otherwise archieve its History & close the doors.
CFI takes over AANR FL Hqs.

Doable
Viable???

Plus link to CFI Travel alone & were halfway Home which AANR has no Travel section.
Plus Nudecasters.
CFI is Progrssive & Up to date.
Thanks Corey. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Concerning your observations of Glen Eden and not fitting in. Did you ever try indoor volleyball? Everyone is very friendly there. Have you shared your interests with one of the ladies who works at the front desk and asked if there are others who share your interests so they could introduce you to others? Perhaps you would like companionship when hiking the trail? Maby you would like to learn to play tennis and just need to be introduced to others at your level? Perhaps you want to play volleyball on the outdoor court but need to learn and so need to find others at your level or want to attend one of the beginner volleyball clinics? Perhaps a game of horseshoes? At Glen Eden, there are many activities gong on but it is just a matter of sharing a common interest with others and perhaps the best way to do this is to talk with a Glen Eden staff member at the front desk.

P.S. Another thing I might add is that many people come to Glen Eden from Los Angeles. They are tired from a week of not only hectic jobs, but also fighting the never ending gridlock of LA traffic. The come to Glen Eden to basically catch up on badly needed sleep and might not be in the most sociable mood while they are resting/sleeping.

If you ever get to upstate New York, you will find the clubs to be very singles welcoming. There is no discrimination against anyone. As Summer is so short around these parts, who has time to waste our precious warm and sunny Summer days discriminating against others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I drove truck and believe me there is discrimination all over , ny too..

try to got to a resort as a solo married man!
you will get treated rudely and they dont even care if your a tns or aanr member, they just judge and hangup or say stuff like "we dont want your kind" , whats my kind? I'm human - I'm a nudist,

and about aanr they dont do one damn thng about it, just steal the dues and run their mouths how great they are!

[Sanslines]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trkrbob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanslines:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stephen russell:
Yes I feel its dated
Wont accept singles- men or women
Uptight
Nude prudes
1950s thinking
NOT progressive (ideas, marketting)
dated Mgmt
Very Corporate
NO Incentives for singles to Join
Just Pro Couples & Families.
Too few Camps alone.
Went to Glen Eden & never felt I fit in.
NO singles events for Guests or Planned
IE Games, tour, etc.
Nothing
& Im 51 now.
NO creativity seen.
NO singles=NO members=No Income=NO AANR.
SingleBoomers
Single GenX
can keep AANR alive.
BUT bias to singles.
Glen eden has singles group BUT for those over 60.
No one around 40-50 in group.
That was 2003.

Comments
Anyone have similar???

Id love to see TNS & CFI merge & takeover AANR camp mgmt since AANR would have to SELL camp/s for funding????
All, some camps???
TNS &CFI can then plan Beach Camps, Forest camps,
From idle acerage alone.
Ez AANR types can come to CFI.
Wow.

The best thing these new camps do is revive the old ASA(now AANR) Pagent events.
Otherwise archieve its History & close the doors.
CFI takes over AANR FL Hqs.

Doable
Viable???

Plus link to CFI Travel alone & were halfway Home which AANR has no Travel section.
Plus Nudecasters.
CFI is Progrssive & Up to date.
Thanks Corey. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Concerning your observations of Glen Eden and not fitting in. Did you ever try indoor volleyball? Everyone is very friendly there. Have you shared your interests with one of the ladies who works at the front desk and asked if there are others who share your interests so they could introduce you to others? Perhaps you would like companionship when hiking the trail? Maby you would like to learn to play tennis and just need to be introduced to others at your level? Perhaps you want to play volleyball on the outdoor court but need to learn and so need to find others at your level or want to attend one of the beginner volleyball clinics? Perhaps a game of horseshoes? At Glen Eden, there are many activities gong on but it is just a matter of sharing a common interest with others and perhaps the best way to do this is to talk with a Glen Eden staff member at the front desk.

P.S. Another thing I might add is that many people come to Glen Eden from Los Angeles. They are tired from a week of not only hectic jobs, but also fighting the never ending gridlock of LA traffic. The come to Glen Eden to basically catch up on badly needed sleep and might not be in the most sociable mood while they are resting/sleeping.

If you ever get to upstate New York, you will find the clubs to be very singles welcoming. There is no discrimination against anyone. As Summer is so short around these parts, who has time to waste our precious warm and sunny Summer days discriminating against others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I drove truck and believe me there is discrimination all over , ny too..

try to got to a resort as a solo married man!
you will get treated rudely and they dont even care if your a tns or aanr member, they just judge and hangup or say stuff like "we dont want your kind" , whats my kind? I'm human - I'm a nudist,

and about aanr they dont do one damn thng about it, just steal the dues and run their mouths how great they are! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bob,

I would very much like to know the name of the upstate NY club that treated you badly as well as the first name of the person who treated you rudely. This is very important and I will research what happened and so please reply. If you do not feel comfortable replying in open forum then you can PM me. Please understand that if you do not reply or give specifics, then your concerns at the particular club in question can not be addressed.

[trkrbob]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanslines:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trkrbob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanslines:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by stephen russell:
Yes I feel its - men or women
Uptight
Nude prudes
1950s thinking
NOT progressive (ideas, marketting)
dated Mgmt
Very Corporate
NO Incentives for singles to Join
Just Pro Couples & Families.
Too few Camps alone.
Went to Glen Eden & never felt I fit in.
NO singles events for Guests or Planned
IE Games, tour, etc.
Nothing
& Im 51 now.
NO creativity seen.
NO singles=NO members=No Income=NO AANR.
SingleBoomers
Single GenX
can keep AANR alive.
BUT bias to singles.
Glen eden has singles group BUT for those over 60.
No one around 40-50 in group.
That was 2003.

Comments
Anyone have similar???

Id love to see TNS & CFI merge & takeover AANR camp mgmt since AANR would have to SELL camp/s for funding????
All, some camps???
TNS &CFI can then plan Beach Camps, Forest camps,
From idle acerage alone.
Ez AANR types can come to CFI.
Wow.

The best thing these new camps do is revive the old ASA(now AANR) Pagent events.
Otherwise archieve its History & close the doors.
CFI takes over AANR FL Hqs.

Doable
Viable???

Plus link to CFI Travel alone & were halfway Home which AANR has no Travel section.
Plus Nudecasters.
CFI is Progrssive & Up to date.
Thanks Corey. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I drove truck and believe me there is discrimination all over , ny too..

try to got to a resort as a solo married man!
you will get treated rudely and they dont even care if your a tns or aanr member, they just judge and hangup or say stuff like "we dont want your kind" , whats my kind? I'm human - I'm a nudist,

and about aanr they dont do one damn thng about it, just steal the dues and run their mouths how great they are! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bob,

I would very much like to know the name of the upstate NY club that treated you badly as well as the first name of the person who treated you rudely. This is very important and I will research what happened and so please reply. If you do not feel comfortable replying in open forum then you can PM me. Please understand that if you do not reply or give specifics, then your concerns at the particular club in question can not be addressed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I honestly dont remember thier name. wish i did. I was at a 3m plant to deliver and relaod but had a lay over. one of the guys at the plant got me hte number. it was near rochester NY and the lady was not at all interested that i was aanr and tns member in good standing, and i nver even got tell her i carried a notorized statement from the wife.. oh hell no that didnt matter. i was some subhuman to that-----. there was enouph snide in her voice to poison lake michigan. I got that same response a lot out eastern part of usa. After a while you become uninchanted by it all .. Glen Eden in ca. was the first one to be that way wiht me and yes i was polite and courtious. I can not say the same for their phone receptionist! and i was only calling to get info about them.. I was fairly new to social nudism and very gungho. Polite was not part of her vocabulary once she learned i was married and alone, (most commerical drivers are)..after taking a verbaly abuse barrage of "we dont want YOUR kind" Politely told her i thought they owed me an appolgy. more verbal abuse.. so i left it that i would NEVER have a good word for them and i still dont, Glen Eden may have changed but not to me!!!!!!! i never got that appology!

Paid dues to aanr for nothing, they wouldnt even print any letters about the issue, but they will print every one any woman sends in about any inappropriate thing htey see or they feel is inappropriate. biased- they damn sure are..

You folks may have many choices of places to go out here we dont. so "go someplace else is a mute point" but east coasters cant seem to understand that.. (midwest usa)

and just for info the resorts i finaly did get into i did have a great repore with &open invites back but they now to far away,to go to and hte ones even remotely in area are not friendly even when names are dropped of the resorts i used to go too. do i feel betrayed by my fellow nudists,,,,,damn skippy i do.

[Sanslines]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trkrbob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanslines:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trkrbob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanslines:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by stephen russell:
Yes I feel its - men or women
Uptight
Nude prudes
1950s thinking
NOT progressive (ideas, marketting)
dated Mgmt
Very Corporate
NO Incentives for singles to Join
Just Pro Couples & Families.
Too few Camps alone.
Went to Glen Eden & never felt I fit in.
NO singles events for Guests or Planned
IE Games, tour, etc.
Nothing
& Im 51 now.
NO creativity seen.
NO singles=NO members=No Income=NO AANR.
SingleBoomers
Single GenX
can keep AANR alive.
BUT bias to singles.
Glen eden has singles group BUT for those over 60.
No one around 40-50 in group.
That was 2003.

Comments
Anyone have similar???

Id love to see TNS & CFI merge & takeover AANR camp mgmt since AANR would have to SELL camp/s for funding????
All, some camps???
TNS &CFI can then plan Beach Camps, Forest camps,
From idle acerage alone.
Ez AANR types can come to CFI.
Wow.

The best thing these new camps do is revive the old ASA(now AANR) Pagent events.
Otherwise archieve its History & close the doors.
CFI takes over AANR FL Hqs.

Doable
Viable???

Plus link to CFI Travel alone & were halfway Home which AANR has no Travel section.
Plus Nudecasters.
CFI is Progrssive & Up to date.
Thanks Corey. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I drove truck and believe me there is discrimination all over , ny too..

try to got to a resort as a solo married man!
you will get treated rudely and they dont even care if your a tns or aanr member, they just judge and hangup or say stuff like "we dont want your kind" , whats my kind? I'm human - I'm a nudist,

and about aanr they dont do one damn thng about it, just steal the dues and run their mouths how great they are! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bob,

I would very much like to know the name of the upstate NY club that treated you badly as well as the first name of the person who treated you rudely. This is very important and I will research what happened and so please reply. If you do not feel comfortable replying in open forum then you can PM me. Please understand that if you do not reply or give specifics, then your concerns at the particular club in question can not be addressed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I honestly dont remember thier name. wish i did. I was at a 3m plant to deliver and relaod but had a lay over. one of the guys at the plant got me hte number. it was near rochester NY and the lady was not at all interested that i was aanr and tns member in good standing, and i nver even got tell her i carried a notorized statement from the wife.. oh hell no that didnt matter. i was some subhuman to that-----. there was enouph snide in her voice to poison lake michigan. I got that same response a lot out eastern part of usa. After a while you become uninchanted by it all .. Glen Eden in ca. was the first one to be that way wiht me and yes i was polite and courtious. I can not say the same for their phone receptionist! and i was only calling to get info about them.. I was fairly new to social nudism and very gungho. Polite was not part of her vocabulary once she learned i was married and alone, (most commerical drivers are)..after taking a verbaly abuse barrage of "we dont want YOUR kind" Politely told her i thought they owed me an appolgy. more verbal abuse.. so i left it that i would NEVER have a good word for them and i still dont, Glen Eden may have changed but not to me!!!!!!! i never got that appology!

Paid dues to aanr for nothing, they wouldnt even print any letters about the issue, but they will print every one any woman sends in about any inappropriate thing htey see or they feel is inappropriate. biased- they damn sure are..

You folks may have many choices of places to go out here we dont. so "go someplace else is a mute point" but east coasters cant seem to understand that.. (midwest usa)

and just for info the resorts i finaly did get into i did have a great repore with &open invites back but they now to far away,to go to and hte ones even remotely in area are not friendly even when names are dropped of the resorts i used to go too. do i feel betrayed by my fellow nudists,,,,,damn skippy i do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only places 'near' Rochester are Steph's Pond and Naturist Rochester which are NOT AANR clubs. The closest AANR club to Rochester is Empire Haven.

[Pete Knight]

If you replaced AANR with CCBN, and USA with UK, all the above posts would fit the current situaion over here too, the comparisons are truely remarkable!

Its sad that our representative organisations have lost touch with what theye are supposed to be about, they appear to have become overwhelmed by politicing.

I recently attended the AGM of CCBN, it left me feeling quite dispirited, and worried for the future of our national representative body.

Pete Knight

[Liam]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pete Knight:
If you replaced AANR with CCBN, and USA with UK, all the above posts would fit the current situaion over here too, the comparisons are truely remarkable!

Its sad that our representative organisations have lost touch with what theye are supposed to be about, they appear to have become overwhelmed by politicing.

I recently attended the AGM of CCBN, it left me feeling quite dispirited, and worried for the future of our national representative body.

Pete Knight </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am shocked and saddened to hear this. It is an alarming bit of information. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/disappointed.gif

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liam:
I am shocked and saddened to hear this. It is an alarming bit of information. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/disappointed.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should not be surprised -- what goes on in the USA with AANR is repeated in other countries. Oh yeah, the single male issue? You think it's restrictive here? Go to England and see how THEY handle it.

Oh, yeah -- large organizations are subject to political infighting. You ain't seen nothin' until you've been to an AANR convention.

I served as a delegate to the now defunct "General Assembly" at the AANR convention in 1994.

The convention was held at Pine Tree Associates, which is one of the more beautiful but traditional nudist parks on the east coast.

If you think the politicing is bad at the parliamentary levels of government, you should have seen this. I sat in a meeting hall for four days. All I could say is "I ain't never doin' this again".

AANR -- for better or for worse -- reorganized itself two years ago. There is no longer a "general assembly" -- which was a legislative body where your club could send a delegate and participate in bylaws changes, etc. AANR is now run by a board of trustees, who are elected in a somewhat crazy fashion, and this system was set up in a reorganization program called "AANR Tomorrow".

AANR members are repeatedly barked out that the new system is "one member - one vote! One member - one vote! One member! One vote!" (lather, rinse, repeat) but the reality is that the Trustees now are elected in a complex and weird system which gives club owners virtual control over the board. Clubs elect around half of the trustees, members the others. While it does -- and certainly will -- eliminate a lot of the infighting -- it also did three things --

- entrenched the club owners as the permanent and perpetual control over the organization.

- removed the "threat" of AANR control being taken completely by its members. This was a possibility because "direct members" - those with no club affiliation - were gradually and rapidly gaining proportional representation in the Assembly and there could have come a day where those "directs" could have overthrown the entire structure of AANR as it existed. As it stood earlier, smaller clubs could not afford to represent themselves at the national conventions, but the direct delegates could offset the power of the large clubs.

- preserved the labyrinth and maze of regional officers, directors, trustees, task forces, committees, conventions, inboard/outboard meetings, which also repeats itself at the AANR national level.


Now - is AANR obsolete?

Yes and no.

The singles issue

The singles issue - I say, no. AANR cannot control clubs gate policies. If they did attempt to mess with that -- and they did try it , at the 1994 convention I attended -- clubs would simply drop their AANR affiliation. Some were confused in this thread.

AANR is not a big sanctioning body that can close down a nudist club. AANR does not own or control the parks and clubs , and they have very, very limited influence over how they conduct their business.

Being affiliated with AANR is not a bad thing for a club, but voluntary non-affiliation won't hurt a successful club. And if they DID somehow, impose a "you must admit all gate policy" on the clubs, AANR would likely fall apart.

However, the upper echelon of AANR has always had their ear to the ground on this issue. I have spoken with some top guns on this -- including former president Pat Brown, who was very empathetic and thought education of owners on opening the gates to singles was a good policy. The fact that it's discussed at all states that they're listening.

But there is no way that they can slam-dunk a rule down the clubs' throats. It's politically impossible, and from a business standpoint, definitely impossible. As we saw in other threads, some clubs were advised by legal counsel to NOT admit "married singles". You think they're gonna accept a mandate from AANR that conflicts with that?

Marketing online

Most definitely, they are out of touch. They, and their member clubs, were rather quick to jump on the Internet bandwagon. But - there is no longer an online internet radio station catering to nudist promotion -- and those cost practically NOTHING. One person once got upset when I said the cost of running one of those things for a year could be covered by the cost savings from cancelling a mid-winter meeting of some type. Member clubs could promote themselves via 60 second commercials on it.

Note that CFI runs an open, and successful BBS system. So does NetNude.com, and there are several others. Yes, AANR has a members only closed board. When I was an AANR member, I went into it. Not much discussion. Completely unmoderated. I doubt anyone from AANR was looking at it then. Who knows what is going on now?


General marketing

Hazy area. They are limiting their audience. Whenever they get a media opportunity, they ALWAYS show the upscale resorts. Quick money from the empty nesters. Upscale! Upscale! Upscale! But in doing so, they ignore a key audience - families, younger people, and those with thinner wallets who may still find something they like at the older, more modest, and traditional nudist parks.

If they get the chance to learn about them, of course.

This is what we found when we joined nudism 27-28 years ago, in our tent camping days. There's still a huge market there, and those people will become the empty-nesters a couple of decades down the road.

They're gearing themselves to one audience - the upscale one, but forgetting the audience that brought them to where they are today. There's no need to ignore that demographic, and in the long run, doing so could come back to haunt them.


Education and Public Information

A categorical "YES" on obsolescence. The Youth Camp debacle was one thing. I don't think that the backlash they had was completely expected, but given the attitudes toward child protection in America today , it might not have been the wisest move to promote it as openly as they did. Furthermore, to this nudist, it seemed that they relished the controversy because they were getting "live shots" in the media and weren't concerned with the outcome of the battle. Indeed, the ban on youth camps in Virginia one year led to a subsequent battle the next year - where a bill was filed, and it had passed, family nudism would have been outlawed in that state. Wisely - AANR and their lobbyists took that one into the back room for negotiation.

They proudly say "oh yes, we have a youth outreach. Look! We have NUDE UNIVERSITY!!!" Whoopie-de-ding. Nude U is simply a program to keep younger college age people -- who are in nudist families -- in nudism. There is also an outreach angle, where Nude U grads are expected to recruit their friends and sign them up.

However, there is no program , as far as I know -- to go out and explain nudism to college audiences. This would be highly effective in educating an audience as to what nudism is about. One individual (Cheri) does that in the Carolinas, but there should be an ambassador in every corner of the country -- and AANR, if they want to lead in this area, should be in touch with colleges that offer majors in recreation and also a few sociology professors, to talk about nudism. But they don't.

So between limited 'net outreach, and this area, I think they could spend some of their money in this area. But they don't.

[Liam]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usuallylurk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liam:
I am shocked and saddened to hear this. It is an alarming bit of information. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/disappointed.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should not be surprised -- what goes on in the USA with AANR is repeated in other countries. Oh yeah, the single male issue? You think it's restrictive here? Go to England and see how THEY handle it.

Oh, yeah -- large organizations are subject to political infighting. You ain't seen nothin' until you've been to an AANR convention.

I served as a delegate to the now defunct "General Assembly" at the AANR convention in 1994.

The convention was held at Pine Tree Associates, which is one of the more beautiful but traditional nudist parks on the east coast.

If you think the politicing is bad at the parliamentary levels of government, you should have seen this. I sat in a meeting hall for four days. All I could say is "I ain't never doin' this again". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I snipped off the rest of your great post for brevity. Thank you very much for your interesting point of view on the subjcet. I had no idea.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liam:

I snipped off the rest of your great post for brevity. Thank you very much for your interesting point of view on the subjcet. I had no idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also want to say -- I did say in my post that AANR wasn't concerned about the outcome -- I want to clarify that -- they were VERY concerned about the outcome of the youth camp situation; however, at the time it was going on, it seemed to me that the resolution was secondary to the media ride that AANR was getting.

[Walt Iliff]

Having been actively involved with the various youth camps for several years, I can say with absolute certainty that the individuals at AANR headquarters as well as the individuals directly involved in the youth camps were extremely concerned about overcoming the negative publicity generated by the pedophilic rantings of Mark Foley. The decision to allow Time magazine and the New York Times to interview the participants at that year's camp at Lake Como and write an article about it was made as part of an overall PR strategy designed by YPB&R, AANR's public relations firm. The articles were extremely positive and were designed to demonstrate that family social nudism was indeed mainstream and had a positive impact on our youth. Of course, hindsight always being 20/20, perhaps someone should have said, "Wait a minute. Maybe we shouldn't have these articles published. After all, there may be a closeted pedophile who wants to run for the US Senate who, in a fit of jealousy will criticize the youth camps and start a firestorm of negative publicity thereby deflecting our positive message and creating a false impression about the youth camps."
The AANR response to the media was to choose to either ignore the negatives, or to attempt to re institute and hammer home the key message about kids, family social nudism, and mainstream values. I cannot fault AANR for choosing to do that. I can assure you though, since I was there and actively participating, that the resolution was in no way, shape, or form secondary to the "media ride." We were all very concerned about Mr. Foley's diatribes.

Walt Iliff

[nacktman]

Pure and simple: the answer to the topic's posed query is YES!

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Walt Iliff:
I can assure you though, since I was there and actively participating, that the resolution was in no way, shape, or form secondary to the "media ride." We were all very concerned about Mr. Foley's diatribes.

Walt Iliff </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fully agree with you on "hindsight being 20/20" -- so I cannot totally fault anyone for the public relations firm's move, and since the publishing outlets were also great - Time, NY Times -- very positive articles, it might have been difficult for anyone to predict the antics of a Foley.

Walt, I'm not saying that AANR tried to ride a media wave over it -- but the perception, not just from me, but from others that I spoke with, was that at the time, the AANR big guns seemed to enjoy the exposure of the moment.

I'm not saying that it was the plan of action -- I'm just saying that at the time, I perceived it to be so. I was not in the back rooms with the politicians, I wasn't in the planning sessions with AANR officials, and I wasn't writing the talking points.

Hopefully, we won't have to deal with situations like that again for awhile.

[Walt Iliff]

Lurk,

A hearty AMEN to your last sentiment. Perception notwithstanding, having read the articles, no one could understand why Foley was making such a fuss. Of course, now we know. If you haven't read them, send me an e mail and I'll forward them to you. I think you'll find that they were very very positive.

Walt

[Jason Lee]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Association_for_Nude_Recreation

1931 a Baptist minister Rev Boone began the ASA American Sunbathing Association renamed itself in 1995 and became AANR

AANR is 75 years old

yes it is obsolete