Another Body Image thread

[nacktman]

There have been several Body Image threads and likely more still.

However, I just read a report that gives some hope that we are moving in the right direction albeit slowly.
Several recent studies and polls have found that Americans are finding that the "Hard Body" as portrayed in the media is not all that anymore. In the past 20 years the attitude toward finding someone without the ideal body unattractive has declined from over 50% to about 24%.
These studies delt primarily with perception of attractiveness and unattractiveness people had of others who did not have the ideal body because of being 'overweight' and show a marked improvement in attitudes toward differences in the human body. From this it may be possible to work for greater acceptence and attitutdes towards nudity as well.
Healthier and a more fun filled life were found to be placed higher in priority than the "Ideal Body". There has always been far more of us without the "Ideal Body" than with it, and it looks like the majority of people are beginning to realize it as well. This can only help to make a healthier and lively society and hopefully we as nudists can benefit as well.

[nudeM]

I consider myself as having a well toned 'hard' body, only it is covered by several layers of 'extra' pounds. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

[BackpackerBrian]

You could also say that people have "given up". As the expectation of finding a hard-body has declined in the past 20 years, the obesity rate has skyrocketed.

[MJ_KC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BackpackerBrian:
You could also say that people have "given up". As the expectation of finding a hard-body has declined in the past 20 years, the obesity rate has skyrocketed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think that this is the reason more than any other. Sometimes people actually will accept reality. I accept it every time I look in the mirror.

[David77]

I just got thru reading a mailing from the St. Louis Psychoanalytic Institute which contained an article by a psychoanalyst, Britt-Marie Schiller, on "Dynamics of Shame". Since many nudists are supposedly fighting "body shame", I will quote her central theme of her article, thus;

"Shame is the emotion experienced when we feel exposed as inadequate, weak, and powerless. Shame arises from passivity and helplessness, from a feeling of failure, a feeling that one amounts to less than one aspires to be, that one falls short of an ego ideal".

[KetchumMaine]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nacktman:
There have been several Body Image threads and likely more still.

However, I just read a report that gives some hope that we are moving in the right direction albeit slowly.
Several recent studies and polls have found that Americans are finding that the "Hard Body" as portrayed in the media is not all that anymore. In the past 20 years the attitude toward finding someone without the ideal body unattractive has declined from over 50% to about 24%.
These studies delt primarily with perception of attractiveness and unattractiveness people had of others who did not have the ideal body because of being 'overweight' and show a marked improvement in attitudes toward differences in the human body. From this it may be possible to work for greater acceptence and attitutdes towards nudity as well.
Healthier and a more fun filled life were found to be placed higher in priority than the "Ideal Body". There has always been far more of us without the "Ideal Body" than with it, and it looks like the majority of people are beginning to realize it as well. This can only help to make a healthier and lively society and hopefully we as nudists can benefit as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So does that mean that at 6'0" and 280 lbs I can finally wear a speedo on a public beach? http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

[BackpackerBrian]

I have posted this article before on this site, but I think it applies here as well.
----------------------------------------

South takes the cake in nation's fat epidemic
By BOB DART
Cox News Service
Wednesday, August 24, 2005

WASHINGTON – Who would have guessed, y'all? There is a statistical correlation between being fat and living in the land of fried chicken, cornbread, grits with red-eye gravy, sweet iced tea, pecan pie, porch swings and Sunday afternoon naps.

The Trust for America's Health released a report Tuesday showing that obesity is rising like a buttermilk biscuit all across America – but folks are getting fatter fastest in the South.

The report ranked states according to their percentage of obese adults: 1. Mississippi. 2. Alabama. 3. West Virginia. 4. Louisiana. 5. Tennessee. 6. A tie between Texas, Kentucky and Michigan. South Carolina was tenth, Arkansas 11th, Georgia 12th, North Carolina 16th, and Virginia 22nd. Of the Southern states, only Florida was in the leaner half of the nation – ranking 38th.

The states that once composed the Confederacy now make up a Corpulency. The region "is almost like a canary in a coal mine. Waistlines are growing fastest (in the South). But why is it happening there? I can't give you that answer," said Shelley Hearne, executive director of Trust for America's Health, a non-partisan, non-profit organization with the stated goal of improving the health of Americans.

The report, "F as in Fat: How Obesity Policies Are Failing in America – 2005," uses statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta to show state-by-state trends. Along with the nation as a whole, each state's average percentage of obese adults from 2002-2004 is compared to the average over the previous three years.

By comparing three-year periods, Hearne said, the study shows "with clarity and certainty that we have a steady increase that has been taking place."

Nationwide, the average obesity rate for the three-year period was 22.7 percent of the adult populace, up slightly from 22 percent in the previous period. No state met the national goal of 15 percent or lower, said Hearne. Every state showed an increase in its obese population except Oregon, which stayed the same.

The percentage of obese adults in Georgia was 24.5, a .7 percentage point increase. The percentage of obese adults in Texas was 25.3, a .4 percentage point increase. The percentage of obese adults in Florida was 20.7, up 1.4 percentage points. The percentage of obese adults in Ohio was 24.4, a 1 percentage point increase. The percentage of obese adults in North Carolina was 23.9, a .4 percentage point increase.

"We really don't have the research" to show conclusively why the Southerners seem to be the fattest Americans, said the report's co-author, Parris Glendening, president of the Smart Growth Leadership Institute and former two-term governor of Maryland.

"But this part of the country is leading the nation in the increase in obesity and is going to suffer dramatically in its health as a result," he concluded.

The issue is both simple and complex, the report's co-authors said.

On one hand, the rise in obesity comes from "simple math," said Hearne. "We're eating more calories and we're burning up less" through exercise.

On the other hand, she explained, "obesity is a very complex issue."

People with lower education levels and less income are more likely to be fat, for instance. "You can match that up with demographics of states," she said. People who are on food stamps are more likely to be obese than those with higher incomes or those with similar incomes who do not rely on food stamps.

"Where you find obesity, you'll find poverty. It's a reflection of the South's struggle to raise its standard of living. You'll see it in the deep South and in Appalachia," said Bill Ferris, former administrator of the National Endowment for the Humanities and now a scholar with the Center for the Study of the American South at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

"Traditional Southern food is very high calorically," said Harry Watson, director of the UNC Center. "It was appropriate when Southerners worked outdoors in fields and indoors in mills. But jobs are not as strenuous now. People are more sedentary but they still eat like they're out there sawing logs or picking cotton."

But he agreed that "cheap food is fattening food" and income levels may have as much to do with the region's obesity as does its traditional diet.

"There are more people eating French fries than greens" in today's South, he said.

Glendening linked the obesity rate to the region's rapid suburban growth.

The South "has the highest level of sprawl," he said. Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, Birmingham, Jackson and other of the region's metropolitan areas are growing outward. Cars rule. Pedestrians are figments of the past.

Developers "build cul-de-sac type subdivisions. People can't walk to school, work or church. You have to get in the car and drive to go anywhere," said Glendening. "As a result, there is a reduction in physical activity."

Many suburbs are built without sidewalks, he said. There are no neighborhood stores in these communities and schools are usually distant.

"Nationwide only about 10 percent of children walk to school any more," he said.

Fat is dangerous, the report said.

"Obesity is a gateway to heart disease, diabetes and a host of other diseases," said Glendening. "There is much more that can be done to help people make healthy choices about nutrition and exercise. For instance, decisions about where we build new houses and highways or schools and sidewalks can mean the difference between giving people more or less opportunity to participate in physical activity."

Hearne said governments could do more to fight obesity in everyone from school kids to Medicare patients.

The report defines adults with a Body Mass Index of 30 or more as "obese." The index is meant to be a more accurate measure than a simple weight to height ratio, but is sometimes flawed when considering very muscular, fit people.



Bob Dart's e-mail address is bobdart(at)coxnews.com.

[BackpackerBrian]

Just in case you were wondering about chilkdhood obesity,

"Childhood obesity, which more than tripled from 1975 to 2004, also has offset other gains, he says. The rate of childhood obesity rose from just more than 5% to a projected 16.7%."

Entire article at http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-03-29-youth-well-being_x.htm

[ncnudlady]

Brian you seem like one of those that can't get it through their heads that the "hard body" look does not mean the healthy or attractive look.
In fact all the "hard bodies" I know are all suffering from various health issues from chronic fatigue to heart/lung problems and all are on some sort of pill for psychological and emotional problems.
I know of one that suffers from health issues that hasn't got the "hard body" and her illness is genetic so she would suffer from it with any body type.
I have found that the most unattractive people are the "hard body" types for looks, personality and sincerity all my life.

So yes, ketchum you could wear speedos at the beach but men don't look good in speedos no matter the body type.

[Croydon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ncnudlady:
Brian you seem like one of those that can't get it through their heads that the "hard body" look does not mean the healthy or attractive look.
In fact all the "hard bodies" I know are all suffering from various health issues from chronic fatigue to heart/lung problems and all are on some sort of pill for psychological and emotional problems.
I know of one that suffers from health issues that hasn't got the "hard body" and her illness is genetic so she would suffer from it with any body type.
I have found that the most unattractive people are the "hard body" types for looks, personality and sincerity all my life.

So yes, ketchum you could wear speedos at the beach but men don't look good in speedos no matter the body type. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do not think Brian was advocating "hard body" as being healthy. His post dealt with obesity in America and frankly it is a major issue. People seem to turn their heads when it comes to obesity.

Personally, I am someone who works out a lot to achive the "hard body." I find that I feel better when I workout and eat right. Not only do I feel better but I enjoy the way my body looks when it is in shape.

I do not find overweight or obese people to be attractive and I do not wish to have that for myself. Is it important that people achieve "hard body.?" The answer is no but I do believe Americans need to employ a healthy lifestyle and understand that being 40lbs overweight is not good or healthy.

As a former overweight person, I remember how life sucked and I would not wish that on myself again.

I predict that America is going to get fatter and fatter. People today merely tollerate the obesity. The fact that Americans are dying younger and having heart attacks and other obesity related issues isn't alarming to people yet.

Nudist are so stuck on this "body acceptance" campaign and I really believe the message is getting tired. The message should be employing healthy living and healthy lifestyle.

[hootowl]

What about "Nip and Tuck", and Dr. 90210? Isnt the trend to look younger, and firmer, just as big an epidemic as obesity? Im 59, thin (175lbs) 6' tall, but have a bit of a paunched belly. Sure i could do sit ups every day and probably firm it up, but to impress who? The other people who say this is important?? I just ask people to take me as I am, Isnt that the "real" message of naturlism? Or is it?? hmmmm.

[Vin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hootowl:
I just ask people to take me as I am, Isnt that the "real" message of naturism? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I rather think that it is. To me, part of the point is to take a break from the "roles" I have to play in mundane life. To get away from all the symbols represented by clothing and to just be myself.

That said, I also agree that being too overweight poses a health risk. It's something I'm working on, too. But acceptance is, or should be, a separate issue.

Vin

[nacktman]

"Overweight" has less to do with health than the exercise and diet industries want you to believe. A person's genetic makeup, style of living, mental/emotional state are what determine the health of that individual.

Perception is what the study looked at and it found that people are attuned to reality more than the fantasy of the media.

Here is a problem for you:

PERCEPTION
6'3" Tall
Broad Chest
Slight Paunch
Weighs 225lbs
Only "5lbs" OVERWEIGHT

REALITY
6'3" Tall
59" Chest
46" Waist
Weighs 297lbs
oh my god 80lbs overweight

But, wait...blood pressure constant and steady at 110/70, pulse constant and steady at 50bpm, heavily muscled, heavy skeletal structure, ability to run long distances, acute mental awareness all make this person healthier and weigh more than the "ideal body" type.

So, where is the need for the "ideal body" if you can be healthier without it.

[David77]

I have heard that it is not good to require one's faithful, normal heart to pump blood thru all that "extra milage of tubing" thru one's excessive poundage.

[tinner666]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by David77:
I have heard that it is not good to require one's faithful, normal heart to pump blood thru all that "extra milage of tubing" thru one's excessive poundage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/beam.gif

I'm overweight and need to exercise more. But I need to do it for myself, not to look more appealing. And I accept others as they are. Nobody here has to tone up to please me. Body acceptance is the norm. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif
BUT Being overweight is not good for anybody. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sad3.gif

[nacktman]

The point is that "being overweight" is not always unhealthy.

The weight to height charts that most are familiar with have been proven by medical science to be VERY UNHEALTHY in their ratios, in that to be within "normal" one would have to be anemic, which were set by insurance companies and used to deny claims for benefits.

Newer charts based on medical evidence has the ratios at, at least 20lbs heavier than the old standards for healthier body weight and recognize the effect of muscle and skeletal mass on that weight.

The old adage that muscle weighs twice as much as fat is true and coupled with a heavy bone density a person could be upwards of 30lbs heavier than the median for their height/weight ratio and still be healthy.

The attractiveness in the non "ideal body type" is just a reminder that humans go for survival and in the past the larger the person, the better they ate, and the better they ate, the better their survival. Nature will always win out.

In nudism, body acceptance is central to the philosophy. Healthier lifestyles can be lived without the "Hard Body" in my life I have been a skinny kid, at 12 years old I was a man (Literally, six feet tall and 240lbs, rock solid with a "six pack" and the Junior High School football coach's most cherished fantasy), through middle age and developing "beer gut" (without the beer I might add), to being able to still get on the floor and play Candyland with my granddaughter and at no time did I have the "ideal body" for my height, weight or age, but the kicker was and is I have been healthy all my life and had fun living it. And I must have been attractive to at least a few people because the glares my wife got from other women when she married me said "how dare you B*%#H, taking him off the market". http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

[tinner666]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The point is that "being overweight" is not always unhealthy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
In my case, and I assume in other cases too:
Every pound added is like adding a pound to your backpack or purse. It gets harder to carry, and we move slower, making it harder to burn more calories, making it easier to gain another pound, making it harder to burn more calories, making it harder to burn more calories, making it easier to gain another pound, making it harder to burn more calories, ad nausem. It's a vicious cycle. It's a hard to win war. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sad3.gif
Of course, medical setbacks help a lot in backsliding, but I want to win. It helps an active person stay active.
This is not aimed at anybody. This is my own demon. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/cry.gif

[Vin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tinner666:
...Every pound added is like adding a pound to your backpack or purse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. And I probably should have said "overfat" in the earlier post. I was taught in wellness theory class that the gold standard for determining healthy weight is finding how much of one's weight is fat. Anything over about 20% is (or was) considered too much for guys. For women, I think it was about 30%.

As Nackt points out, height/weight charts were pretty roundly discredited in the 80s as insurance company ploys to avoid paying benefits. That's one reason I've been surprised and dismayed to see them repackaged as "body mass index." The fact that the medical community appear to have bought the new marketing is... disappointing.

[Journeyman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tinner666:
...Every pound added is like adding a pound to your backpack or purse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. And I probably should have said "overfat" in the earlier post. I was taught in wellness theory class that the gold standard for determining healthy weight is finding how much of one's weight is fat. Anything over about 20% is (or was) considered too much for guys. For women, I think it was about 30%.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

MALE
Age EXCELLENT GOOD FAIR POOR
19-24 10.8% 14.9% 19.0% 23.3%
25-29 12.8% 16.5% 20.3% 24.4%
30-34 14.5% 18.0% 21.5% 25.2%
35-39 16.1% 19.4% 22.6% 26.1%
40-44 17.5% 20.5% 23.6% 26.9%
45-49 18.6% 21.5% 24.5% 27.6%
50-54 19.8% 22.7% 25.6% 28.7%
55-59 20.2% 23.2% 26.2% 29.3%
60+ 20.3% 23.5% 26.7% 29.8%

FEMALE
Age EXCELLENT GOOD FAIR POOR
19-24 18.9% 22.1% 25.0% 29.6%
25-29 18.9% 22.0% 25.4% 29.8%
30-34 19.7% 22.7% 26.4% 30.5%
35-39 21.0% 24.0% 27.7% 31.5%
40-44 22.6% 25.6% 29.3% 32.8%
45-49 24.3% 27.3% 30.9% 34.1%
50-54 26.6% 29.7% 33.1% 36.2%
55-59 27.4% 30.7% 34.0% 37.3%
60+ 27.6% 31.0% 34.4% 38.0%

Hope this is "readable" onscreen. I forgot to jot down what website this came from, but it was on a site selling scales that measure % of body fat.

I have one at home and find that by checking regularly, you can pretty much see how your eating can affect your percentage of body fat. As you can see, age is a variable, as is the amount of water in your system.

[SunnyB]

This is a good link http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/

[ncnudlady]

What all you "Hard body" mentality folks don't get is those old ratio charts where as Nacktman and Vin pointed out not for the health of the person but for the health of the insurance company's bottom line.

Those BMI charts you are now cheering are not for health people either and are falling into discredit faster than the old charts did, for they do not take into account the muscle mass and skeletal density as Nacktman pointed out. They use the same old method of a height to weight ratio, only using a different set of undersized numbers so that to fall within "normal" one is still anemic and therefore can not be used to gauge the health or attractiveness of a person.

[Journeyman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SunnyB:
This is a good link http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Body Mass Index - what this web page is all about -- is what is being argued here as NOT a good measurement of body fat. There are other variables involved besides simply height and weight.

The BMI on that site shows my body fat as being 25.5% when in fact it is has been proven to be between 16-18%, which is in keeping with my age and height and level of regular exercise activity.

[Journeyman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ncnudlady:
What all you "Hard body" mentality folks don't get is those old ratio charts where as Nacktman and Vin pointed out not for the health of the person but for the health of the insurance company's bottom line.

Those BMI charts you are now cheering are not for health people either and are falling into discredit faster than the old charts did, for they do not take into account the muscle mass and skeletal density as Nacktman pointed out. They use the same old method of a height to weight ratio, only using a different set of undersized numbers so that to fall within "normal" one is still anemic and therefore can not be used to gauge the health or attractiveness of a person. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Incidentally, I have the same viewpoint as you, ncnudlady, but I'd say I have a "healthy body" mentality, not a hard body one.

[tinner666]

I only want a healthy body. Not interested in being a 'hardbody'. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

[tomkojohn]

So what do people recommend if we shouldn't be using BMI? Should we all go to one of those body-fat measuring tubs to get measured? What other measures are useful?

I know I could stand to lose many pounds, but how many is enough/too much? I also just want to be healthy and have a bit more energy which I expect to as I lose some of the excess weight.

Thanks in advance!

[Journeyman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomkojohn:
So what do people recommend if we shouldn't be using BMI? Should we all go to one of those body-fat measuring tubs to get measured? What other measures are useful?

I know I could stand to lose many pounds, but how many is enough/too much? I also just want to be healthy and have a bit more energy which I expect to as I lose some of the excess weight.

Thanks in advance! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hesitate to answer, because I am not a certified trainer or someone with physiological or physical education. I'm self-taught only.

However, I'd suggest going to your local YMCA and asking for a fitness test (it may cost you something) and a body fat percentage evaluation. If the person giving the test knows anything, he or she will *not* do a BMI test, but will use one of the newer scales or even the old-fashioned calipers to measure your body fat %age.

How many pounds to lose? Hard to say - but the body fat percentages I listed earlier tend to be standard.

No one can lose weight on certain parts of his or her body (for guys, it's always the love handles they'd like to see disappear); so we must try to lose excess weight overall. Then the fat will disappear in the 'problem' areas naturally -- but it truly is all about nutrition and regular exercise *together*, and consistently.

I'm hoping DoctorSurferDude and Atlanta Runner might have some comments to add to mine.

good luck,
J'man

[nacktman]

The point of the study was the perception of what and what is not attractive to people and the fact that the "Hard Body" image protrayed in the media was not as attractive as they said it to be.

Being healthy means, mind and body together and one need not have the "perfect" body to be healthy but that is an entirely different topic than the "perception" of people when it comes to attractiveness.

As nudists we should be accepting of all regardless of "body type", hell as humans we should be accepting as well.
We should encourage all to be as healthy as they can be without being "pushy" about it...just being a fun loving and carefree individual works the best I have found, others see you living your life and enjoying living it and they will try and emulate your fun and carefree life for themselves (of course tailored to their needs and desires).
As most people that do live fun and carefree lives tend to be healthy as well, it goes that those that attempt to emulate that lifestyle shall be healthier as well.

Also, people that are fun loving and carefree are tended to be looked upon as attractive people regardless of the type of body they have.

[shãybare]

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/cool4.gif
According to the chart, I only need to loose 53 lbs. I know I need to loose weight, because I do not feel good with where I am right now. I certainly don't do enough exercise. The exercise in itself would do me wonders.