Yorktown Recreation (Maine) closed

[Tyco]

Just found out that Yorktown Recreation, in Albion Maine, is no longer a c/o resort. They weren't making it financially, so they've changed it to a non-nude resort for other public activities.

[Tyco]

Just found out that Yorktown Recreation, in Albion Maine, is no longer a c/o resort. They weren't making it financially, so they've changed it to a non-nude resort for other public activities.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Lee:
you could go nude inside the cabins but not outside. (5 cabins each is heated and sleeps 4 adults) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, hell, you can go nude inside any private room.

But Yorktown had advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages - there's a reasonably good-sized nudist contingent in the state of Maine. The only other nudist park in Northeast New England is Cedar Waters in New Hampshire. And that does not have facilities that could be used in the winter, and Cedar Waters does not admit singles. I had never been to Yorktown, but friends tell me that it had a typical (not wild, but not ultra-conservative) atmosphere.

Disadvantages - location, location, location. It is in such a far-flung remote area of Maine that it's not close to too many people. The nearest population center is Augusta, Maine - that's 25 miles away and only has 20,000 people. On all other sides, they don't have many people.

It is 80 miles from Portland, which is where the majority of people in Maine live (or in the general area or south of there). When gas prices crossed $3 per US gallon here, it deterred a lot of people from going.

And if you're in the Boston area -- I live 30 miles north of Boston - there were five or six other places with less travel time than there.

Winter weather conditions could make a weekend trip a risky venture.

Now - the only question I have is - they are planning to convert to a general banquet facility.

We nudists are crazy. We will drive 100-200 miles in each direction for a weekend. But will this place survive as a general textile recreational facility???

And would they consider "nudist weekends"????

[Nudesunbather]

I talked with both Tony and Ray this past Saturday and they both told me that "clothing optional" will return in May for the summer.

I haven't been able to connect with Ray since then for any updates (if any)

I'll let you all know as soon as I have some verifiable information.

[Tyco]

Thanks for the info nudesunbather. I tried calling there today but only got the answering machine.

They should clarify things quickly, as the word is getting around that they are no longer a nudist resort at all. (I got the word from another board, and a private email). And their new website sure makes it look that way.

This still bums me out, as this originally offered a winter place to go nude, which I thought was it's best advantage. Too bad we still lose that, but it would be great to see it still c/o during some times of the year.

[Nudesunbather]

It's true--------Yorktown Rec is closed for nudity. The owners have turned it into a swingers only facility.

I find it a bit ironic that the town of Albions worst nightmare has come true. NOW there WILL be wild sex parties all over the place.

It saddens me deeply but I'll have to move on.

[usuallylurk]

WHAAAATTTTT????? I have heard nothing of the sort. That is a vicious accusation, Nudesunbather.

Where in hell did you hear this? Don't start rumors...

[Cheri]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usuallylurk:
WHAAAATTTTT????? I have heard nothing of the sort. That is a vicious accusation, Nudesunbather.
Where in hell did you hear this? Don't start rumors... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm posting this from an acquaintance:
I feel that I owe you some sort of explanation about the past e-mails that I have sent you concerning the sexual behavior at the club dances that my wife and I attended. I will say now that the club was Yorktown Recreation in Albion, Maine. They just announced that they were converting from a nudist club to a "banquet facility" I didn't really want to name the club before as they were new and having financial problems and we have met a number of really good people there. I know feel that I can at least tell you what was going on.
The groping on the dance floor included the co owner of the club, that is one reason that I didn't think it would do any good to complain. She would dance with certain men and let them touch her breasts and we also saw an older man that she would let run his hand up her butt cheeks. There were several other women that also behaved like that. The last time my wife and I were there, in September, we attended the dance and saw more of this going on. We also observed three women washing each others boobs in the shower. You couldn't miss seeing these things! We have been going to nudist clubs for about six years now and that is the only club that we attended very often and we quite frankly didn't know if what we saw was something that happened at clubs. I will say that the majority of people there didn't behave in this way and we made some friends at Yorktown.
Let me also say that the closing of Yorktown pretty much caught everyone by surprise, even the dues paying members. My wife and I weren't members but averaged going over there about every six weeks for the past year. Many of the people are quite upset at the under handed way this was done, the members were told at a Halloween dance this past weekend and the rest of us that weren't at the club this weekend found out through some of the nudist message boards or going on the website and seeing the name and no nudism. I feel badly for a couple of men in particular as they gave a lot of their time and even money in volunteering there since they started to build. I mean they actually helped put the place up and did a lot of the maintenance work. These two are pretty devastated.
It has become common knowledge among the people that frequented the club that they are now into renting it out to swingers. I accidentally ran across a picture of the owners at HedonismIII on another website. They had been there in late spring and the caption for the picture mentioned they were promoting Yorktown. It never dawned on me then that they shouldn't have been promoting an AANR club at a Swingers resort.
Please excuse the length of this letter. I'm sorry if I am telling you things that it may seem that you don't need to know. I just wanted to clarify things a little. We nudists here in Maine were quite upset over this as there is so little availabe here. I will say that I know that it is their business to run as they see fit. My wife and I just think that it should have been handled out in the open and with at least some concern for the dues paying members and volunteers.

[Nudesunbather]

To Jason Lee,

I also said that I hadn't been able to connect with Ray since Saturday for any updates and that I'd let you all know as soon as I had verifiable information. That's what I did.

Ray and Tony DID tell me on Saturday that c/o would return in the spring.

I talked with Ray, face to face, on Tuesday and he said that nudity was done.

Apparently, Ray was had the same understanding as I on Saturday.

[Nudesunbather]

To usuallylurk,

Sadly, this is NOT a rumor and certainly NOT a viscious accusation. This information was DIRECTLY from Ray.

I put my heart and soul into Yorktown for over 2 years starting with staining the wood for the outside of the building while the carpenters were still putting the roof on to mowing lawns and splitting wood for the sauna that I also helped build.

I had a personal stake in Yorktown, so please, with all due respect, don't accuse me of starting rumors and making accusations.

My original message here explained what I knew at the time and I said I'd find out more as soon as I could. I did that.

[Nudesunbather]

To Cheri,
Thank you for responding. I am one of the two men who gave a lot of time to Yorktown. You're right, I am devastated. I feel like someone kicked me in the stomach.

Concerning the groping on the dance floor. The co-owner was actually BANNED from the dances because of her behavior. She pretty much was the catalist for the bad behavior. That pretty much went away after the banning. As far as the boob washing in the shower, this is the first time I've heard that. Had it been voiced by someone, I'm positive that Ray would have put a stop to it.

I heard about the Hedonism thing this week. Hindsight being 20/20, I guess I'm not surprised.

I just want everyone to understand. I loved Yorktown. I loved the idea of Yorktown enough to rearrange my work to be able to volunteer two days a week to help it grow. I loved Yorktown enough to NEVER start rumors or make accusations.

Thanks again.

[Tyco]

This is not a rumor. I had also heard from a reliable source, in person, that it had turned into a swingers club, a day or so before I read about it on the internet.

Also, back before it opened, I was warned by someone who knew the owners that they tended to be swingers. I thought, so what, it didn't matter, they are obviously trying to open a legit AANR c/o resort. Well, turns out it DID matter.

I feel bad for the guys that put in countless volunteer hours to get the place going. They were taken advantage of badly and have reason to be upset.

And we are all upset at this loss, since there is only one other indoor place to go nude (a sauna, not a resort) in Maine.

Has anyone contacted AANR about this? I am not a member, but wondered if anyone has. I would think that this would be an embarrassment to them.

[NakedGary]

If you go to aanr http://www.aanr.com to the eastern clubs and select http://www.yorktownrecreation.com/

your are redirected to:

Yorktown Recreation is now Ridgeview Resort. If you are not automatically redirected in 5 seconds, please click HERE


http://www.ridgeviewresort.org/

Weddings
Wedding Receptions
Bachelor/Bacherlorette Parties
Chem-Free Graduation Parties
Holiday Functions
Business Meetings
Company Parties
Religious Retreats
Large Birthday/Anniversary Parties
Club or Organization Events
Family Reunions
Award Ceremonies
Class Reunions
Seasonal Hunting Groups
Ridge View Resort is a resort where you or your family and friends can "get away" from it all. The privacy of Ridge View Resort's land with two large, clean, scenic ponds offers a special place to picnic, lie in the sun, swim, play on the sand beach, or take a short hike. An observant visitor might even glimpse deer, turkeys, and various songbirds. Rest and relax, heal your body and soul. The views are spectacular, and the environment is secluded and natural. Ridge View Resort is the perfect place to have any function.
Our Indoor facilities include a large Banquet Hall, Sauna, Indoor Heated Pool, 12 person Hot Tub, and Rec room with Pool Table, Ping Pong Table, and Weight Bench. We have a fully equipped kitchen able to handle all of your function needs.

**************************

I think all members should send AANR an Email requesting them to delete the listing for a non nudist facililty on their list ASAP. AANR does not want to admit loss of clubs, but should not still list it as a AANR Facility or Nudist club because it is not......

[Cheri]

AANR doesn't change their website listings as soon as changes come in. It may take a week or so until they are notified and then a little longer for the Webmaster to change it.

Cheri

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cheri:
AANR doesn't change their website listings as soon as changes come in. It may take a week or so until they are notified and then a little longer for the Webmaster to change it.

Cheri </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The e-mails have been flying fast and furious on this on certain listservers.

I'm sure the issue will be discussed at this Sunday's Maine Coast Solar Bares gathering... if anyone's going, we'll be there.

[jusmenude]

hi Cheri. I'm another former member of Yorktown. I was at the meeting when Tony announced the "clothesing" of Yortown. it was a severe slap in the face to all of those who had worked so hard to make it a go. I first went there when the office was a tent in the field, a cooler and a clipboard. I didn't work as hard as some, but i did what I could, visited whenever I could and told all interested parties about the place. When Tony told everyone what was going on, i asked him how he could do that to the people who had supported him for the last 3 years, and all he could say was "you are not paying my bills" a very demeaning thing to say to his "friends", don't you think?<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cheri:
AANR doesn't change their website listings as soon as changes come in. It may take a week or so until they are notified and then a little longer for the Webmaster to change it.

Cheri </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Cheri]

jusmenude, that was a little short and could have probably been said a bit nicer. It is a slap and does hurt. Can those members who have been displaced possibly join up with the Maine Coast Solar Bares or perhaps form their own nonlanded club.

Hugs, Cheri

[jusmenude]

i will give that some serious consideration, but MCSB is not a "landed" group and the beauty of YT was the camping out and fireplaces etc. a lot of us have been talking and we're thinking of every possibility we can. even if we had a field or a camp or whatever where everyone could gather, have a fire and shoot the breeze with our friends it would be a rebirth of sorts. if any other former members of YT want to contact me personally, you know who i am if you remember halloween and fishnets.. i know, a little weird but what the hell. drop me a line if you have any ideas...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cheri:
jusmenude, that was a little short and could have probably been said a bit nicer. It is a slap and does hurt. Can those members who have been displaced possibly join up with the Maine Coast Solar Bares or perhaps form their own nonlanded club.

Hugs, Cheri </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[NakedGary]

I suppose that any unused portion of memberships wasn't returned or refunded, and is in the contract or membership form as non-refundable.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jusmenude:
i will give that some serious consideration, but MCSB is not a "landed" group and the beauty of YT was the camping out and fireplaces etc. a lot of us have been talking and we're thinking of every possibility we can. even if we had a field or a camp or whatever where everyone could gather, have a fire and shoot the breeze with our friends it would be a rebirth of sorts. if any other former members of YT want to contact me personally, you know who i am if you remember halloween and fishnets.. i know, a little weird but what the hell. drop me a line if you have any ideas...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I **do** have some ideas.

A landed club would work in Maine. Get hold of ten acres in a not-so-great town. It can be way out in the sticks but must be accessible to Portland, Manchester, and without much effort, Boston. Not in a place like Albion or China, Maine.

Where you are shielded from public view. If you find something that has a dwelling on it (house), great. Something with infrastructure (well or town water) even better. If the house needs work, a few weekends and some building materials can fix it up. An old farmhouse that could double as a bed and breakfast would rock.

Put together a core group of perhaps 20-30 people. Each willing to put up, say, $15,000 each. So you would want to have your "core group" of people in their 20s or 30s because this is going to require WORK.

Now - this requires commitment. And a business plan. And some business experience. And some insurance. And some hard, hard work.

Start a co-op. Those who come in on the front end get lifetime membership in exchange for their efforts, investment, and good faith. New members will be admitted based on a) the infrastructure's ability to handle new members and b) whatever criteria you set , as a group, for membership.

[KetchumMaine]

Here is the link to the newspaper article:
http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/2109072.shtml

Here are some quotes :

Anthony Takacs also stressed that the nudist venture is scrapped for good.

"We want to distance ourselves as a clothing optional resort as soon as possible," he said. "We want people to understand that it is available for them to use."

"We just couldn't get enough business," Anthony Takacs said Wednesday in referring to Yorktown Recreation, "but we didn't want to fail, so we just decided to go a new direction."

[KetchumMaine]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usuallylurk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jusmenude:
i will give that some serious consideration, but MCSB is not a "landed" group and the beauty of YT was the camping out and fireplaces etc. a lot of us have been talking and we're thinking of every possibility we can. even if we had a field or a camp or whatever where everyone could gather, have a fire and shoot the breeze with our friends it would be a rebirth of sorts. if any other former members of YT want to contact me personally, you know who i am if you remember halloween and fishnets.. i know, a little weird but what the hell. drop me a line if you have any ideas...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I **do** have some ideas.

A landed club would work in Maine. Get hold of ten acres in a not-so-great town. It can be way out in the sticks but must be accessible to Portland, Manchester, and without much effort, Boston. Not in a place like Albion or China, Maine.

Where you are shielded from public view. If you find something that has a dwelling on it (house), great. Something with infrastructure (well or town water) even better. If the house needs work, a few weekends and some building materials can fix it up. An old farmhouse that could double as a bed and breakfast would rock.

Put together a core group of perhaps 20-30 people. Each willing to put up, say, $15,000 each. So you would want to have your "core group" of people in their 20s or 30s because this is going to require WORK.

Now - this requires commitment. And a business plan. And some business experience. And some insurance. And some hard, hard work.

Start a co-op. Those who come in on the front end get lifetime membership in exchange for their efforts, investment, and good faith. New members will be admitted based on a) the infrastructure's ability to handle new members and b) whatever criteria you set , as a group, for membership. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously, a club supported solely by Mainers is not going to fly. To be successful the location would have to be near a tourist area which attracts people. I know that land costs are high in some areas, but I am thinking that Route 302 from near Fryeburg has some possibilities. I realize that it is not centrally located, but it needs to be near tourists (Fryeburg is near Bridgton and North Conway ). Another area is near Sunday River. In winter there are skiers, in the fall leaf peepers, and in the summer Canadian tourists. The best place would be on Sunday River Road or on the segment of Route 2 which is also Route 26.

Another suggestion: Start small and grow. One problem Yorktown had was it started out big and HAD to pay the loan. My suggestion is to find a fixer upper or empty property on a dead end dirt road near a river or stream and go from there. Saunas can be wood fired and I have an idea for a creative hot tub which uses very little energy (12 volt = solar powered).

Let's keep this thread alive with ideas.

[jusmenude]

i would never say that was the case. i have no direct knowledge of that or of any contracts. i did not prepay anything after october 1st and the change took place nov 1st so i cannot comment on any of that.

[Tyco]

The MCSB's usually meet in Ogunquit, which is too far south for me.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cheri:
Can those members who have been displaced possibly join up with the Maine Coast Solar Bares or perhaps form their own nonlanded club.

Hugs, Cheri </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[nudeinmaine]

I agree with tyco oqunquit is to far south for me tork town was about an hour from me the only time we made it down was when we could spend most of the day we need somthing closer to bangor

[UpstateNYBill]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KetchumMaine:
Here is the link to the newspaper article:
http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/2109072.shtml

Here are some quotes :

Anthony Takacs also stressed that the nudist venture is scrapped for good.

"We want to distance ourselves as a clothing optional resort as soon as possible," he said. "We want people to understand that it is available for them to use."

"We just couldn't get enough business," Anthony Takacs said Wednesday in referring to Yorktown Recreation, "but we didn't want to fail, so we just decided to go a new direction." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Certainly doesn't look like they are turning it into a swingers resort. Looks like they are renting it to different types of parties, weddings and that.

They sure look like they distancing themselves from nudism

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nudeinmaine:
I agree with tyco oqunquit is to far south for me tork town was about an hour from me the only time we made it down was when we could spend most of the day we need somthing closer to bangor </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the reasons Yorktown didn't attract the numbers they had hoped to is because of its location. OK, to be fair, I live near a major metro area (Boston - 30 miles), not far from Manchester (25 miles), Portland (95 miles). I was not eager to drive 170 miles or so in each direction to try out Yorktown.

I am less tempted to try it in the winter.

But I had many options that were closer.

Cedar Waters, Solair, Dyer Woods, the Ledges, Sun Ridge, NNH summer events, and probably other isolated skinny dipping spots. I also had the good fortune to attend a couple of private house parties. And also Eastover. And during the winter, Naturist New Hampshire, and Maine Coast Solar Bares.

When you live near sizable population centers, there are more options.

Its location did it in. I realize that it hurts you guys - because there is no other facility way up there, and little incentive to build one. The advantages of living up there are tremendous -- open spaces, lower cost housing, and a feeling of freedom. The disadvantages are that the things you'd normally find in a major metropolitan area - from symphony orchestras to major league baseball to museums to restaurants to nudist parks and groups ** aren't ** up there.

However, it would not be UNfeasible to build one that is an acceptable travel distance from, say, Portland, or points inbetween the major population centers.

I mentioned the prospect of an abandoned farm or place with 10 acres or so. Another possiblity - a campground that failed because of its location.

A nudist park need not be close to much -- it just can't be TOO FAR AWAY from too many people.

But as I said - work, commitment, and money, and more of the same again.

In the meantime, I can only offer two recourses --

1) Get together, start your own informal group, and host house parties.
2) Try to start a non-landed group if you can.

However, if you want to exchange ideas with other nudists, or to see what may be possible - then I recommend driving on down to a Maine Coast meeting anyway. Some people travel extensive distances to attend those. You might meet some folks from your area. It's a long distance. But it's a good time.

By the way, there's one Sunday. 1 to 5.

[jusmenude]

all of the currently booked "private parties" are those of a swingers group. don't let tony's smooth talking fool you...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UpstateNYBill:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KetchumMaine:
Here is the link to the newspaper article:
http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/2109072.shtml

Here are some quotes :

Anthony Takacs also stressed that the nudist venture is scrapped for good.

"We want to distance ourselves as a clothing optional resort as soon as possible," he said. "We want people to understand that it is available for them to use."

"We just couldn't get enough business," Anthony Takacs said Wednesday in referring to Yorktown Recreation, "but we didn't want to fail, so we just decided to go a new direction." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Certainly doesn't look like they are turning it into a swingers resort. Looks like they are renting it to different types of parties, weddings and that.

They sure look like they distancing themselves from nudism </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[jusmenude]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/formeryorktownmembers/
this is a group i just formed for anyone interested. please identify yourself by name, i know you all...<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jusmenude:
all of the currently booked "private parties" are those of a swingers group. don't let tony's smooth talking fool you...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UpstateNYBill:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KetchumMaine:
Here is the link to the newspaper article:
http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/2109072.shtml

Here are some quotes :

Anthony Takacs also stressed that the nudist venture is scrapped for good.

"We want to distance ourselves as a clothing optional resort as soon as possible," he said. "We want people to understand that it is available for them to use."

"We just couldn't get enough business," Anthony Takacs said Wednesday in referring to Yorktown Recreation, "but we didn't want to fail, so we just decided to go a new direction." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Certainly doesn't look like they are turning it into a swingers resort. Looks like they are renting it to different types of parties, weddings and that.

They sure look like they distancing themselves from nudism </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Tyco]

C'mon, do you think they'ld admit to a newspaper that it's now a swinger's club??

They may indeed be promoting it for other things, but more than one source here has shown evidence that swinging is going to be a main part of their business now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UpstateNYBill:
Certainly doesn't look like they are turning it into a swingers resort. Looks like they are renting it to different types of parties, weddings and that.

They sure look like they distancing themselves from nudism </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[NakedGary]

I emailed AANR Eastern Region President to ask that they drop the listing as a Landed Nudist Facility from their clubs/resorts list in Maine from the AANR and AANR-East listings As soon as possible as it’s not a nudist facility anymore.

[tinner666]

Obviously, a club supported solely by Mainers is not going to fly. To be successful the location would have to be near a tourist area which attracts people. I know that land costs are high in some areas, but I am thinking that Route 302 from near Fryeburg has some possibilities. I realize that it is not centrally located, but it needs to be near tourists (Fryeburg is near Bridgton and North Conway ). Another area is near Sunday River. In winter there are skiers, in the fall leaf peepers, and in the summer Canadian tourists. The best place would be on Sunday River Road or on the segment of Route 2 which is also Route 26.

Another suggestion: Start small and grow. One problem Yorktown had was it started out big and HAD to pay the loan. My suggestion is to find a fixer upper or empty property on a dead end dirt road near a river or stream and go from there. Saunas can be wood fired and I have an idea for a creative hot tub which uses very little energy (12 volt = solar powered).

Let's keep this thread alive with ideas

I hope you don't mind a Va. boy from butting in. In Va, I noticed that winter business increased by at least 150% when WTP closed a pool in. They now have water-volleyball games going day and night. Some are scheduled, about 3 a week, and the others are pick-up games. Not to mention all the other activities.
http://www.whitetailpark.org/
A look at the activities link and other amenities of a successful operation are worth looking at if anybody is serious about what's needed for a successful outcome.
I wish you luck in your endeavor.
Remember, being nude is not 'the event'. It's just how you 'dress' to enjoy activities. We can all be nude at home, but you need activities to go to to make it worthwhile to travel somewhere to be nude while "out and about".

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tinner666:
Obviously, a club supported solely by Mainers is not going to fly. To be successful the location would have to be near a tourist area which attracts people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it doesn't have to be near a tourist area. It would help, but the price of the property would offset the gains.

The bulk of a club's support comes from the lot rentals and seasonal memberships.

It has to be in a place that is REASONABLY -- but not necessarily IDEALLY -- convenient to its clientele. If the price of a piece of property is considerably lower but several miles further away from a prime area, nudists will travel to be nude.

Something that is in southern Maine -- close enough to draw people from New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Maine -- where they could take a seasonal lot or membership -- and be able to get to it for a weekend without a long, arduous drive may work. And you don't have to be in a pricey tourist area to do that.

Take a look at where the existing New England nudist parks are located -- for instance, Cedar Waters is in the relatively unknown town of Nottingham -- it is reasonably close to Portsmouth and Hampton Beach, but not "right there". Likewise Solair - not near much of anything except Old Sturbridge Village and the antiques-festival town of Brimfield.

Even in Florida - yeah, the population has hit there in the last 10 years, but Lake Como and Paradise Lakes are in the town of Land'o'Lakes - which -- up until 10-15 years ago, was "the middle of nowhere".

People will go to it -- if they can get there and gain reasonable use of the facility.

[Cheri]

Frank, Bob Roche, WTP's owner, upgraded his property gradually. Unless someone also hits a lottery or has a nice little stock pile of $, I don't think an enclosed pool would be the answer.

One thing one park did was to put hot water pipes directly beneath walkways so as to make it more cool weather friendly.

Putting up some sort of enclosure around a pool with possibly sliding glass doors around it that can be open in warmer weather might be a
possibility. One park of which I am aware, purchased a steel building and put a new pool and large hot tub in that.

http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Cheri

[tinner666]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cheri:
Frank, Bob Roche, WTP's owner, upgraded his property gradually. Unless someone also hits a lottery or has a nice little stock pile of $, I don't think an enclosed pool would be the answer.

One thing one park did was to put hot water pipes directly beneath walkways so as to make it more cool weather friendly.

Putting up some sort of enclosure around a pool with possibly sliding glass doors around it that can be open in warmer weather might be a
possibility. One park of which I am aware, purchased a steel building and put a new pool and large hot tub in that.

http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Cheri </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know. I helped with the indoor pool and several other things here. I helped build the new outdoor pool. A LOT of members helped for free. He just got another enclosure, used, for 5$. I was just pointing out a goal for long term success. If the 'charter members' that put up the seed money can put in enough to at least get the hot-tub, clubhouse, and pool going, then try for some kind of enclosure, they will be on the right road. Especially if any of them are 'hands-on' people that don't have to contract out everything. It will not be easy, but it can be done.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usuallylurk:


Even in Florida - yeah, the population has hit there in the last 10 years, but Lake Como and Paradise Lakes are in the town of Land'o'Lakes - which -- up until 10-15 years ago, was "the middle of nowhere".

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A small point.... Como and Paradise are in Lutz. Paradise keeps a Land O Lakes PO box though. The other clubs (Caliente and all) are in Land O Lakes.

Land O Lakes has at least 10,000 homes planned for the next few years. It already looks quite different than it did in 1998 when I first went there.

[tinner666]

I was improperly quoting "KetchumMaine" when I posted earlier.

I believe some dedicated individuals can make a go of it though. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[usuallylurk]

Yesterday at the Maine Coast Solar Bares gathering, Yorktown's demise was the major topic of conversation.

We had a very pleasant day - but since many MCSB members used Yorktown in the summer, they're without a place. The nearest club for many is in New Hampshire, is couples-only, and can be as much as a five-six hour drive from some spots.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tyco:
The MCSB's usually meet in Ogunquit, which is too far south for me.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Out of challenges, opportunities are built.

Someone on here mentioned that there is now a Yahoo group of former Yorktown Rec members.

OK, is Maine Coast (Ogunquit) too far away from you?

As Cheri said, consider starting your own non-landed group. It might be difficult to find facilities, but you can certainly plan social gatherings, find sites to rent ... maybe one of your members has an isolated expanse of land. Just lurking into that Yahoo group - I see that you already have a core group of people ready to go.

You can always carpool down this way for a gathering...

You never know what can result from all of this.

[John P]

Yes, what about gatherings in people's backyards and so forth? In a rural state like Maine I'd have thought that some of the members might have enough space, private enough, to make this possible. One advantage would be that it won't cost anyone a dime!

Or how about meeting at a selected swimmin' hole, different every time? You do have a few to choose from, and it would help make the locations better known to people who'd keep them in use by real nudists (as opposed to gawkers, beer campers etc). But not Lake Wood.

[Cheri]

You don't even need a backyard. Before we had our property, we had indoor events in our apartment. Board games, pizza & video nights all work great.

http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Cheri

[iceberg99]

To bad that they are closing. My wife and I went up a few times last year, and I know how much work some of the guys were puting in.
We didn't make it up this summer as we are from the Portland area and it is a ways to drive. I think it would have worked if it was closer to Portland.

Pete

[John P]

Anyone who wants to run a resort in a lot of parts of the country faces a dilemma:

Try to start one near where people live, and you can't afford the real estate.

Start one where there aren't many people, and nobody comes.

[KetchumMaine]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John P:
Anyone who wants to run a resort in a lot of parts of the country faces a dilemma:

Try to start one near where people live, and you can't afford the real estate.

Start one where there aren't many people, and nobody comes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It doesn't help that they decided to "bet the farm" (literally) on it's success. They mortgaged all they have to build a large clubhouse with indoor pool, hot tub, etc. in a field on a dirt road in the middle of nowhere. My suggestion to them was to start with a small operation and see how it went. Solair (in Connecticut), which has been around since the 1930's, just built their large clubhouse a couple of years ago. There is somthing to be said for moderation.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KetchumMaine:
[
It doesn't help that they decided to "bet the farm" (literally) on it's success. They mortgaged all they have to build a large clubhouse with indoor pool, hot tub, etc. in a field on a dirt road in the middle of nowhere. My suggestion to them was to start with a small operation and see how it went. Solair (in Connecticut), which has been around since the 1930's, just built their large clubhouse a couple of years ago. There is somthing to be said for moderation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Solair started in the 1930s and quite an infrastructure in place, long before I-90 and I-84 were built to get people to and from there.

Solair was built on the sweat of their members, as it's a co-op.

Anyone building a nudist park today in New England is competing agaist the existing parks -- so if they want to attract people, they had better make it reasonably accessible.

[KetchumMaine]

It is my understanding that Solair started out as a couple of cabins and the pond (essentially what you can see when you stand by the office). Later they added the roundhouse, pool and RV sites.

A nudist resort in Maine cannot rely entirely on people from away (not from Maine)to pay the bills. The locals tend to end up paying the rent. Unlike people fom Boston, most people don't get paid double digits. Starting off too big will end you up in debt. Life (and business) in Maine is not the same as in "the big city". Things run a bit differently up here. The rules that are learned in business school don't necessarily apply in the same way as they do out in the rest of the world.

There is an effort underway to aquire some land or an existing campground in the Central Maine area. If they purchase land, it needs to be developed. If they buy a campground, there is an initial cost for the purchase. Either way, it costs money to develop something.

Richard Jarvi at Richmond Sauna could expand his existing facility with camp sites, but I think he is happy with what he has.

I was thinking that a facility located near the ME/NH border would be beneficial to groups from both states. If it were located on either Route 26 or Route 302, it would get traffic from tourists most of the seasons (tourist season, foliage season, and ski season). With adequate facilities, room to grow, and proper marketing, it would have a chance. Anywhere near Bethel, where Routes 2 & 26 are one road, would provide access to Canadian tourists all summer, leaf peepers in the fall, and skiers in the winter. Someone could develop a place on Foss Brook Rd in T8R17WELS if they wanted to, but moose and deer don't spend a lot of money despite how many bucks they have.

As for the competition factor, I don't see it as a major roadblock. The Vermont clubs are a bit of a haul from the population centers. The only club in New Hampshire is "couples only" and not even AANR (which always makes me suspicious). Solair is membership oriented, so even if you want to visit for a weekend you must talk with the man in the yellow hat about your desire to be a member (don't you find that Curious, George http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif?). Sandy Terraces is too close to home for some, and Berkshire Vista is too Ritzy for others (and again, too far away from where they want to be). So, I conclude that there is pleanty of clientele for a reasonably priced, well placed, well maintained small campground with room to grow into a resort.

[missouriboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...moose and deer don't spend a lot of money despite how many bucks they have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And the moose (meese?) don't even have any bucks to start with! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KetchumMaine:
As for the competition factor, I don't see it as a major roadblock. The Vermont clubs are a bit of a haul from the population centers. The only club in New Hampshire is "couples only" and not even AANR (which always makes me suspicious). resort. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, the Vermont clubs ARE near population centers -- the greater Burlington area has probably 100,000 people in it -- and if you go "across the lake" to Plattsburgh, you also have some people over there.

And Montreal - is around 90 minutes away.

As far as being "suspicious" about a club not affiliating with AANR, you shouldn't have a fear. The club owners have chosen not to affiliate with AANR -- actually, they made the decision some 45 years ago to drop out of what was then known as the ASA. And, there is an AANR-related club for its members operating on the grounds - even though the mailing address is in Maine (Sherwood Forest Club).

If anything -- Cedar Waters is radically conservative. And most of its critics have never been inside its gates.

[missouriboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And most of its critics have never been inside its gates. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>"If you want to know what goes on in nudist parks, ask someone who has never been in one." http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[KetchumMaine]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And most of its critics have never been inside its gates. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>"If you want to know what goes on in nudist parks, ask someone who has never been in one." http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have been to Solair and Yorktown. I haven't been to Cedar Waters because I am single, and as such presumed to be a pervert (but don't get me started). I am suspicious of any organization which excludes a particular segment of society without just cause. I believe in family oriented nudism. I work to keep Ketchum family friendly, and expect the same of any other place I attend. I have been to Richmond Sauna, but will probably not return now that they have gone "Adults Only". There is a fine line between "adults only" recreation and "adult" recreation. It is my understanding that Yorktown chose to cross that line.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KetchumMaine:
I have been to Solair and Yorktown. I haven't been to Cedar Waters because I am single, and as such presumed to be a pervert (but don't get me started). I am suspicious of any organization which excludes a particular segment of society without just cause. I believe in family oriented nudism. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK - first of all, I am sure the owners of Cedar Waters do not consider all singles "perverts". Your choice of words, not mine.

The balance/quota/couples standard versus the open admission standard could be argued ad infinitum, and probably will be argued for that long because there will always be a handful of clubs that will continue to practice such admission policies.

Today I was out by the pool -- and ran into a couple from Maine who had never been to Cedar Waters and were telling a new couple all they knew about the place -- of course, they had never been there but a friend of a friend of a friend whose cousin went there knew all about it.

They asked "isn't that the place that you have to go to church?" NO. It has a chapel on the grounds, and they have a Sunday morning religious service in season. SO DO A LOT OF OTHER PARKS.

They asked about body jewelry. None below the waist. But are they the only ones who have that rule? No. SO DO A LOT OF OTHER PARKS.

They asked "isn't there a rule about touching?"
Yes, against inappropriate touching or that of a sexual nature. But that rule is not only at Cedar Waters. A LOT OF OTHER PARKS ALSO HAVE THE RULE.

Last night a woman asked me, "isn't that where you have to show a marriage certificate?" No. In fact, one couple had been members, and dating for YEARS and had their wedding ceremony up there....


My recommendation - if you ever meet up with a lady (is she a "pervert", too? After all, they don't admit single WOMEN, either) I suggest you go to Cedar Waters and check it out.

And if you want to know more about the place, ask the owners OR ask a member. If you go to, say, Maine Coast Solar Bares, you may meet up with some members there. They're always glad to talk about it. And if you see me and my wife there, we will gladly do so.

Stay cool

[John P]

They asked "isn't there a rule about touching?"
Yes, against inappropriate touching or that of a sexual nature.

I know a couple who visited Cedar Waters a few years ago and were then called at home by the owner and asked not to return, because of an incident of touching in public. It didn't involve erogenous zones (shall we say) but it was too much for Cedar Waters. As they told it to me, "They might have let us come back if we'd groveled, but we can go lots of other places."

Could have happened anywhere? Maybe. Impossible to prove.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John P:
They asked "isn't there a rule about touching?"
Yes, against inappropriate touching or that of a sexual nature.

I know a couple who visited Cedar Waters a few years ago and were then called at home by the owner and asked not to return, because of an incident of touching in public. It didn't involve erogenous zones (shall we say) but it was too much for Cedar Waters. As they told it to me, "They might have let us come back if we'd groveled, but we can go lots of other places."

Could have happened anywhere? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, not maybe. It could happen at any park.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Impossible to prove. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I wasn't there -- so I cannot DISprove or prove it one way or another.

[groppler]

I'm glad to hear that Yorktown has become a swingers place. It's about time Maine had such an area. My friend and I will become regular attendees. This sort of behavior - orgies etc. - has been going on for thousands of years and for all the so-called nudist prudes that look down their noses at sexual encounters I say this: You would not exist if not for a sexual encounter.

[Cheri]

Look down on my nose on private (behind closed doors) sexual encounters between a husband and wife...nope.

Open sexuality has closed down a number of nudist venues.
Cheri

[KetchumMaine]

I guess I am one of the "prudes" of which you speak. I am not opposed to sex between consenting adults, but I don't believe in orgies, partner swapping, and other group activities. I believe in a one to one relationship. However, I don't judge those who do such things. Just don't do them or talk about them around me.

[groppler]

To the nudist hippocrates I say this: You want your FREEDOM to go nude in public places, but you deny me and others freedom to have sex in public places. You are the same who don't bat an eye when they see horrific murders and killings on TV or in movies. But Jesus, show a little sex and it's like, We can't have that.

HIPPOCRATES and phonies, that describes most of the so-called nudists I've met, and that numbers in the thousands.

[Naturist Mark]

Hi Groppler, nice to see you again. Interesting persona you've chosen.

You are quite right that run of the mill nudists DO draw a line at public sex. We've been fighting for years to convince the textile majority that nudity doesn't equal sex, that nudity isn't lewd in and of itself. So we proudly assert that we should have access to at least a reasonable portion of public lands for non-lewd nude recreation.

You are free to lobby for public lands set aside for lewd uses too, but please don't do it in the name of nudism.

-Mark

[karrenlandry]

I've been lurking here for a while now (I'm a former Yorktown member), but I feel I must respond to groppler's statements. Obviously I speak for myself only; there are as many different opinions as there are nudists.

Groppler, let me say politely that I feel you are way off base. As a nudist I am not clamoring to go nude in public places, but to have safe, accessible, and acceptable clothing-optional gathering spots to share with like-minded individuals. I have no desire to be nude in the office or the grocery store, and I do not wish to force others to be nude OR clothed against their will. As with most nudists I've met, my motto is 'Live and let live.'

I have no taste for 'horrific murders and killings' on TV or in movies. How you can link an appetite for violence and the enjoyment of nude recreation is beyond me. We don't turn into savages just because we take off our clothes, you know.

As for sex...well, we don't get horny just because we take off our clothes, either. A gathering of naked people is not necessarily an orgy. And I, for one, do not want to see anyone having sex in public, clothed or not. Nor do I care to see people picking their noses in public, urinating against a building, or hocking loogies on the sidewalk. Your freedom to copulate in public ends where my ability to see it begins.

Finally, I'm guessing that you meant to say you think most nudists are HYPOCRITES. Before you make any more wildly inaccurate generalizations about people you don't even know, may I suggest you check your spelling?

Respectfully...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by groppler:
To the nudist hippocrates I say this: You want your FREEDOM to go nude in public places, but you deny me and others freedom to have sex in public places. You are the same who don't bat an eye when they see horrific murders and killings on TV or in movies. But Jesus, show a little sex and it's like, We can't have that.

HIPPOCRATES and phonies, that describes most of the so-called nudists I've met, and that numbers in the thousands. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[groppler]

This is to the f just before, and to a lesser extent to the guy before me:

She said, "Your freedom to copulate in public ends where my ability to see it begins". Talk about hypocrisy! Millions and millions and millions of people have said the same thing about NUDISTS! Do you like it when they say that about you?

Hippocrates was spelled correctly in this context. It is sort of a double-entendre that you obviously didn't register with you. No matter..

As to muders etc, you missed the point again. I was not equating violence with nudity. What
I was saying is that killings and beatings and mayhem seemed to be acceptable TV fare but sex frowned upon. If you must choose only one, which would you find the least objectionable? - A person being having his throat cut so the blood squirts all over the place, or a couple having sexual intercourse in a meadow??

[soundman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by groppler:
This is to the f just before, and to a lesser extent to the guy before me:

She said, "Your freedom to copulate in public ends where my ability to see it begins". Talk about hypocrisy! Millions and millions and millions of people have said the same thing about NUDISTS! Do you like it when they say that about you?

Hippocrates was spelled correctly in this context. It is sort of a double-entendre that you obviously didn't register with you. No matter..

As to muders etc, you missed the point again. I was not equating violence with nudity. What
I was saying is that killings and beatings and mayhem seemed to be acceptable TV fare but sex frowned upon. If you must choose only one, which would you find the least objectionable? - A person being having his throat cut so the blood squirts all over the place, or a couple having sexual intercourse in a meadow?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is a given that violence is totally reprehensible. Sex is beautiful and I don't mind seeing it at all. But keep violence and sex acts away from resorts that have children there.

The problem is they show violence on TV yet nudity seems to be a no no. What is up with that?

[groppler]

I'm not advocating children in the mix. Only adults with an open mind in a restricted environment.

For instance, there is a nudist club (fortunately not affiliated with the money grabbing aanr and the like) that has a festival once a year on a selected weekend. It is closed that weekend to both children and anyone who is offended by public sex. In front of the clubhouse there is a big green grassy area used for sunbathing. On that particular weekend, public sex is allowed there. On the weekend that my wife and I went there was a lot of sexual encounters in the open, for all to see. It was not a bad thing...it was a great thing - the melding of naked bodies is much preferable to the mutilation of clothed ones

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by groppler:
For instance, there is a nudist club (fortunately not affiliated with the money grabbing aanr and the like) that has a festival once a year on a selected weekend. It is closed that weekend to both children and anyone who is offended by public sex. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

People are free to establish clubs where nudity and open sex occur. However, don't advertise it as nudism, because it isn't. The club you describe above is NOT a nudist club.

As for nudists being hypocrites - the desire for the acceptance to relax and socialise in one's natural state is on a totally different bandwidth than your desire for open sex. And just because one doesn't want to observe or participate in open sex does not make one a prude. Some of us simply have standards and taste.

[groppler]

Oh my, the "Forum Administrator" is on my case. Heaven forbid. I suppose this means I am one step below being BANNED from this site. One thing I have learned, among many, is that NUDISTS don't take criticism very well. And NUDIST ORGANIZATIONS are bottom feeders when it comes to criticism. And since the "Forum Administrator" is probably paid by said organizations then....well you know the rest.

I have been to more nudist resorts and beaches in my life than said Administrator will ever go. Many many in the US, Caribbean, SA, Europe. I have done a great deal of research into nudist motivations, I have conducted many interviews (most of whom wanted it "off the record" - which I obliged)with the intent of perhaps someday writing a book about my experiences. The point is, I know what I'm talking about, and you're afraid to hear it

[Cheri]

I have been to more than 50 clubs, resorts, beaches, etc. during my more than 38 yrs. of enjoying nudism/naturism and have witnessed only one incidence of inappropriate behaviour.

Nudism is about de-stressing, relaxing, accepting yourself and others for who they are inside and not what they look like, own, or wear. It has nothing to do with sexuality. Open sexual behaviour has and will continue to lose nudist venues.
Cheri

[hm0504]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by karrenlandry:
...

Finally, I'm guessing that you meant to say you think most nudists are HYPOCRITES. Before you make any more wildly inaccurate generalizations about people you don't even know, may I suggest you check your spelling?

Respectfully...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by groppler:
To the nudist hippocrates I say this: You want your FREEDOM to go nude in public places, but you deny me and others freedom to have sex in public places. You are the same who don't bat an eye when they see horrific murders and killings on TV or in movies. But Jesus, show a little sex and it's like, We can't have that.

HIPPOCRATES and phonies, that describes most of the so-called nudists I've met, and that numbers in the thousands. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be fair, Hippocrates [1], the founder of modern medicine, was almost assuredly a nudist. However, as he died in 377 BC, it is hard to imagine that groppler actually met him in person.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates

[Walt Iliff]

Gee, and I thought he was referring to large containers in which to store water wallowing jungle animals. Silly me.

Walt

[groppler]

Exactly, you were the only one to "get" it

[groppler]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by groppler:
Exactly, you were the only one to "get" it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And because you show promise in the ability to think "outside the box" I'm awarding you a prize -an all expense paid cruise (nude of course) on the River Styx.

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And because you show promise in the ability to think "outside the box" I'm awarding you a prize -an all expense paid cruise (nude of course) on the River Styx. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Gosh Walt, if I recall my Greek mythology correctly, I believe that 'technically' groppler just made a death threat.

-Mark

[groppler]

So lets get back to my "raison d'etre" here.

My premise, from the get-go was that public nudity and sex are symbiotic.

I have been attacked by everyone on this site who cared to post a response. They say in unison: Sex and public nudity are not related.

That is 100% bull.

As I stated in a previous posting, I have done extensive research and documented interviews over the years with nudist men, women, couples.

90% of MEN in a group nudity situation have prurile thoughts about others who are in the same environment. Put simply 9 out of ten men see the women (or men, depending on your persuasion) in a SEXUAL way - they may fantasize about them - at the time, or later. Seeing nude people in effect whets their sexual appetite. Now this is important - in a follow-up question: "If you saw the same people on a street dressed would you have the same sexual thoughts about them?"

The overwhelming response was "NO". So there is a clear correlation between being nude and being sexually excited.

And that's just one instance, out of many.

This post has been edited. - UW

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As I stated in a previous posting, I have done extensive research and documented interviews over the years with nudist men, women, couples.

90% of MEN in a group nudity situation have prurile thoughts about others who are in the same environment. Put simply 9 out of ten men see the women (or men, depending on your persuasion) in a SEXUAL way - they may fantasize about them - at the time, or later. Seeing nude people in effect whets their sexual appetite. Now this is important - in a follow-up question: "If you saw the same people on a street dressed would you have the same sexual thoughts about them?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be blunt. I don't believe you. So convince me. Can you support your assertions? Was your "group nudity situation" a "Lifestylers" party?

-Mark

[groppler]

To this Mark dude I say this: All the interviews, numbering in the hundreds, were conducted randomly at sanctioned nudist resorts throughout the U.S. (You'd be very surprised at how many people, in general, are eager to consent to an interview if they think their thoughts will be in a book someday.)

So Markie man, you believe what you want. Perhaps you are amongst the 10% who are not sexually stimulated at nudist camps. But that in no way diminishes the 90% who are.

[Walt Iliff]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Gosh Walt, if I recall my Greek mythology correctly, I believe that 'technically' groppler just made a death threat.

-Mark </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And me with no coin to pay Charon!! My luck.

[KetchumMaine]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by groppler:
So lets get back to my "raison d'etre" here.

My premise, from the get-go was that public nudity and sex are symbiotic.

I have been attacked by everyone on this site who cared to post a response. They say in unison: Sex and public nudity are not related.

That is 100% bull.

As I stated in a previous posting, I have done extensive research and documented interviews over the years with nudist men, women, couples.

90% of MEN in a group nudity situation have prurile thoughts about others who are in the same environment. Put simply 9 out of ten men see the women (or men, depending on your persuasion) in a SEXUAL way - they may fantasize about them - at the time, or later. Seeing nude people in effect whets their sexual appetite. Now this is important - in a follow-up question: "If you saw the same people on a street dressed would you have the same sexual thoughts about them?"

The overwhelming response was "NO". So there is a clear correlation between being nude and being sexually excited.

And that's just one instance, out of many.

This post has been edited. - UW </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The above statement, if valid, is different than your previous statements. While it may be true that many fantasize about sexual activity ( which I doubt based upon the rarity of erections at nudist venues), actual sexual activity is a totally different social value. Currently, nudists are working to promote non-sexual social nudity as a symbiotic part of fa,ily recreation. This is a tough sell because many non-nudists associate nudity with sex and don't want sexual activity in public places. This is especially true with the radical religious right. We are not saying that SOME nudists are not swingers. We are saying that at "nudist" venues sexual activity is not appropriate. For this reason, we distance ourselves from swingers, whose activities focus on sexual behavior. Just as swingers would distance themselves from sexual predators who prey on children in a public park. There is enough room in the world for each group to exist separately without trying to all together into one.

[karrenlandry]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by groppler:
So lets get back to my "raison d'etre" here.

My premise, from the get-go was that public nudity and sex are symbiotic.

I have been attacked by everyone on this site who cared to post a response. They say in unison: Sex and public nudity are not related. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

groppler, that should make you question the accuracy of your 'nudist arousal' statistics, don't you think?

I like what Ketchum said in response to your statistics:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Currently, nudists are working to promote non-sexual social nudity as a symbiotic part of fa,ily recreation. This is a tough sell because many non-nudists associate nudity with sex and don't want sexual activity in public places. This is especially true with the radical religious right. We are not saying that SOME nudists are not swingers. We are saying that at "nudist" venues sexual activity is not appropriate. For this reason, we distance ourselves from swingers, whose activities focus on sexual behavior. Just as swingers would distance themselves from sexual predators who prey on children in a public park. There is enough room in the world for each group to exist separately without trying to all together into one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that sums it up nicely. I guess groppler is frequenting a NUDIST board just to get us all excited (pun intended, and yes, I 'got' the first one. I figured it was too lame to be intentional). There are plenty of groups out there that gladly discuss naked sex day and night...maybe groppler just got a little lost and stumbled into this one instead. If the avocation in question is not nude sex at all, but rather stirring up controversy, perhaps a debating society would do the trick.

At any rate, thanks, groppler, for giving the nudists a chance to explain what we believe!

Respectfully...

karrenlandry

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by groppler:
My premise, from the get-go was that public nudity and sex are symbiotic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe.. but public nudity does not nudism make.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have been attacked by everyone on this site who cared to post a response. They say in unison: Sex and public nudity are not related. That is 100% bull. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, they say sex and nudism are not synonymous, which is true; Nudism is a non-sexual lifestyle. That doesn't mean sexual thoughts never occur or that nudists don't enjoy sex - of course they do. But nudism is still non-sexual in nature and open sex definately has no place at a nudist facility or beach.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">90% of MEN in a group nudity situation have prurile thoughts about others who are in the same environment. Put simply 9 out of ten men see the women (or men, depending on your persuasion) in a SEXUAL way - they may fantasize about them - at the time, or later. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps, but this is true of nightclubs, bars, textile beaches, gyms, colleges and anywhere else adults gather and socialize. Sexuality is a HUMAN trait, and exists whether the human is clothed or not. Remember, the average male thinks about sex every couple of minutes (or seconds) regardless of what they are doing or wearing at the moment..

[tinner666]

Naturist Mark -- I like the way you put things.


You are quite right that run of the mill nudists DO draw a line at public sex. We've been fighting for years to convince the textile majority that nudity doesn't equal sex, that nudity isn't lewd in and of itself. So we proudly assert that we should have access to at least a reasonable portion of public lands for non-lewd nude recreation.

You are free to lobby for public lands set aside for lewd uses too, but please don't do it in the name of nudism.

A little separation of the two types of places is definitely needed. You know which I prefer, and I have nothing against the other, but you won't find me there. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nudism is about de-stressing, relaxing, accepting yourself and others for who they are inside and not what they look like, own, or wear. It has nothing to do with sexuality. Open sexual behaviour has and will continue to lose nudist venues.
Cheri

Her last sentence tells it all. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I hope to say hello to her if I haven't already.
PS. Cheri, I turned Bob onto this forum. He thinks highly of you. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Cheri]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tinner666:
(snip)
Her last sentence tells it all. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I hope to say hello to her if I haven't already.
PS. Cheri, I turned Bob onto this forum. He thinks highly of you. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I appreciate the words. BTW, have you visited http://www.nudist-resorts.org - great board there too.
Hugs, Cheri

[hm0504]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As I stated in a previous posting, I have done extensive research and documented interviews over the years with nudist men, women, couples.

90% of MEN in a group nudity situation have prurile thoughts about others who are in the same environment. Put simply 9 out of ten men see the women (or men, depending on your persuasion) in a SEXUAL way - they may fantasize about them - at the time, or later. Seeing nude people in effect whets their sexual appetite. Now this is important - in a follow-up question: "If you saw the same people on a street dressed would you have the same sexual thoughts about them?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be blunt. I don't believe you. So convince me. Can you support your assertions? Was your "group nudity situation" a "Lifestylers" party?

-Mark </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting study groppler -- it parallels my own studies of after-work (clothed) male engineers where the conversations clearly indicates 90% will think about sex at some point during that time. And yet people continue to think that the practice of engineering and public sex should be kept separate! Crazy, isn't it!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cheri:

BTW, have you visited http://www.nudist-resorts.org - great board there too.
Hugs, Cheri </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You think any board is good when they let you flame people. It's actually extremely boring there most the time because free thought aand honest responses are discouraged.

[Cheri]

Flames are not tolerated on most boards, disagreements where people concentrate on issues and not the personalities are important.

[tinner666]

I've looked a few times, but spend limited time on the net. Hit about 4 forums, in 30 minutes to an hour, from hot sauce to roofing to nudity, then have to get off again to do paperwork and other stuff. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif