The War in Iraq

[nudist_in_Tn]

Has the war in Iraq affected you or a family member in a personal way ? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[nudist_in_Tn]

Has the war in Iraq affected you or a family member in a personal way ? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

I don't mean to belittle what out troops are doing and the sacrifice that some are making by losing their lives, but this is just another war in a long list of wars. War is senseless. What does it accomplish other than to kill many people and deprive women of their husbands, children of their dads, parents of their sons, and people in general of all kinds of loved ones? Many who do return aren't ever the same. Many can't function in society any longer. After all that, we, the taxpayers, have to spend billions to rebuild the country we fought against. Would they do that for us if they defeated us?

[Kenny G]

I personally hoped that this situation would have been resolved without bloodshed, but realistically I knew it wouldn't. The one thing that really stuck in me, the night that the President came on T.V. and gave the 48 hour deadline, My oldest daughter called me (She lives out of town)just to say "I love you!" she told me that with what was about to happen, "We might not have another chance". Let me tell you, it really struck a nerve. The sudden realization that one way or another this world would never be the same!

I don't know how anyone could vote no on this poll. There is noone that has not been affected by all this in some way. People went out and bought duct tape and plastic(and gas masks and cypro), people obviously stopped flying because all of our airlines are now on the brink of bankruptcy, and those that do fly are now subjected to a much higher level of searches. We all paid higher gas prices, partly due to Venezuela's problems but partly because of the war.

Many people who work in health areas had to have vaccines in case we had outbreaks of diseases that were purposely spread. Just about everyone has a family member or friend that was sent to Iraq, or got involved in the peace marches, or got involved in a show of patriotism.

Here in Florida we had the oldest tourist attraction in the state close down, Cypress Gardens, due to a lack of business. 9/11 started the slowdown but this war finally caused it's death.

I know the nudist resorts around here are real quiet and have lost money for lack of visitors.

[hw]

I tried to vote on this poll yesterday, only to have my computer freeze....so I did not vote. This war has affected everyone's life. I have a son in the navy and to me he is still a little boy...he's only 18! I am reminded of growing up with the Viet Nam war, or Police Action. So many of the 50 thousand people we lost in that one were so very young.
I agree with what Cyndiann said. This war has taken away many of our freedoms that so many have taken for granted. I do not like the idea of war, but I will continue to support the ones who have put their lives on the line and on hold for all of us!

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jon-Marc:
...After all that, we, the taxpayers, have to spend billions to rebuild the country we fought against. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well we, the taxpayers, spent billions of dollars devasting the country and killing its citizens. The least we can do is put it back together again. It's a good job there's plenty of US companies prepared to sign big fat contracts to help in the reconstruction.

Oh look, there's Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton, whose former chief executive is Vice President Dick Cheney. They've signed up a $7 billion contract. Now I wonder if Dick Cheney has still got a few shares in the company. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rik

[Cookie Monster]

I have three children, one is a nine year old boy, he likes to watch the news, and he has come to me and we talk about it. He hears about in school and on the news, He is really scared, so to answer the question, yes it has affected us. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[AussieBeachBoy]

The answer really depends on what you mean by "affected".

The closest sort of effect I can think of would be to have someone I know involved in the actual combat. I don't.

I haven't cancelled any travel, bought anything I wouldn't otherwise have bought etc. As far as I know, it hasn't affected any business which I patronise or otherwise have dealings with. So in that sense there's been no direct effect on me.

However, even if not tangibly touched by the war, it has certainly been a part of my thinking - including in debates on this website. I answered 'no' but there has been a form of effect.

[Suntied]

I only voted because I was courious to see the results. WOOOOOOWWWWWWW! Certainly isn't as big of an effect as the media would would have you believe is it? It affected me as I was getting so fired up at the postings I saw in other threads... i.e. the no-war or wimpy posters. I love my country as every American should, but they still won't let me go to the bank naked. For the same reason I can't go to the bank naked, opposers of any action taken by our government and it amazing military might should consider what they really know about the decisions that are made by those government officials, which is "diddly squat." /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Anyway, we kicked their a** and it is good for everyone except Saddam and his followers, Oh, and maybe the french... even though they taste like chicken. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Here is to the Heroes of our military!
HERE! HERE!
Come home safe!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Suntied /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[missouriboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
I don't know how anyone could vote no on this poll... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But it's easy to know how... just by reading the question: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Has the war in Iraq affected you or a family member in a personal way ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I mean the actual words in the question, to wit:

the war in Iraq Not 9/11, not the Venezuelan oil price impact, not Afghanistan, not...

you or a family member Not your friends, not your co-workers, not...

in a personal way Not gasoline prices, not air travel hassles, not all those myriad things that already affect all of us equally.

I thought it was a very good question, and had to honestly vote "no."
How could it be a useful poll if there was only ONE correct answer?

I have absolutely no friends or loved ones fighting this war--that I know of. Nor am I over there. My life goes on the same as before. Nothing has changed for ME personally. So, no, I am NOT personally affected by this war. I feel sympathy for those who are losing loved ones, but that still does not affect me personally. I'm still paying my bills and making my plans that haven't changed one little bit because of this war. War and killing are senseless, but I am never personally affected by any of it. If there was a war in this country where my life was constantly in danger, that would affect me personally. The only way this war will have any effect on me personally is that as a taxpayer I will have to help pay to rebuild their country, but even that won't have any visible effect on me unless my retirement check gets smaller.

[ATaurusJoker]

Sutied Said: Sutied Said: Anyway, we kicked their a** and it is good for everyone except Saddam and his followers,

"If you delight in killing, you cannot fulfill yourself." The Tao Te Ching

::shakes his head:: I pity you Suntied. I honestly do

ATaurusJoker

[nudeM]

I, personally, do not have any relatives who participated in the war, but I do have a son who is in the Navy (see hws' post). Luckily, he was going through basic during that time. It is possible, however, that he could end up having some sort of action relating to the conflict. He will be assigned to a carrier (will not give out the name), and currently is awaiting for it's arrival back to dock.

Living near a military installation, Lemoore Naval Air Station, the war has had a toll on the general public. I have many friends who have spouses, sons, daughters who have participated in the war. I remember, a couple of weeks ago, when a Squadron returned from the war, they were well received by the communities as being "war heros". The "fly over" during the return, was something that I wish everyone could experience. It sent a message that, no matter how much you "think" you may be opposed to military actions, we are all "one" when it comes to supporting our troops.

As to those who oppose using the military to keep the world a safe place to live, and try to use dialog as opposed to action, I must state a couple of lyrics used in an old Merle Haggard tune stating, " ...when you're running down our country man, you're walking on the fighting side of me..." and "... if you don't love it, leave it..." Case closed!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[ATaurusJoker]

"If you don't love it, leave it"

So should I should leave just because our country has made a huge mistake? What if we made other mistakes. What if the good old U S of A started allowing things that you were morally against? Would you not fight for the country you love if Americans began to advicate something you detested. Like several thousand civilians being killed?

ATaurusJoker

[mel]

I do not believe the United States made a mistake in freeing a country of such a terrible ruler, who had thousands of his own people killed. It's just too bad we didn't do it 10 years ago.

[nudeM]

Thousands of civilians being killed, do you not remember September 11, 2001? Were we not attacked first? Do we just stroll up to the "enemies" and ask for an apology? NO! We just open up a good ole can of "Woop A-S", and as I can see, this latest action was totally justified. I believe in this president. He is not all talk, he gets things done.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nudeM:
Thousands of civilians being killed, do you not remember September 11, 2001? Were we not attacked first? Do we just stroll up to the "enemies" and ask for an apology? NO! We just open up a good ole can of "Woop A-S", and as I can see, this latest action was totally justified. I believe in this president. He is not all talk, he gets things done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let straighten out your confusion.... the people killed on 9/11, well, all those behind it were from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq. Those that made the plans were from Afganistan, not Iraq. Please stop continuing the lies that convinced so many of our young people to die.

Now the CIA has decided to investigate the "facts" that lead up to this war because it appears they weren't facts at all. There have been no WMD found but there has been forged documents found, right in Shrub's hands, documents that were used to convince the Congress to approve the US going into Iraq, documents given to the UN Security Council to motivate other countries into fighting and nobody seems to know who did it.

And right now the Red Cross is being denied access to the prisoners of war which again breaking international law. Shrubby is about to get his bottom spanked.

[Rik]

If there was ever any doubt about whether the war in Iraq was or wasn't legal it seems to me that the lack of any evidence of WMD, which was the only legal reason for going to war, now puts Bush and Blair in the category of war criminals i.e. they acted illegally.

No doubt their trial dates will be announced soon.

Rik

[Frank R]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rik:
[QB] If there was ever any doubt about whether the war in Iraq was or wasn't legal it seems to me that the lack of any evidence of WMD, which was the only legal reason for going to war, now puts Bush and Blair in the category of war criminals i.e. they acted illegally.

"the only legal reason for going to war...?

Where did you gain this previously unknown fact? What law passed by what nation or group of nations says the only legal reason for going to war is if the nation you are attacking has WMD? As a student of military history, I have never found any reference to what you claim as a fact.

[Rik]

Frank,

I said "which was (not 'is') the only legal reason for going to war i.e. declaring war on Iraq.

By legality I am referring to the collective will of the United Nations of which the US and the UK are a part and which have signed up to be bound by its resolutions. Of course when the US was unable to force through the second resolution it decided to ignore the collective will of the UN.

The US and UK justified the war on Iraq by relying on the previous resolutions which provided at best a dubious legality to the strike on Iraq but would only prove to be actually legal if WMD were discovered.

None of the UN resolutions on which the US were relying were concerned with changing the Iraq regime so whilst we all might rejoice that Saddam Hussein has been ousted it doesn't alter the fact that without the uncovering of WMD the war on Iraq was illegal.

Of course the US only believes in the legal authority of the UN when it suits it to, but this war has left a bitter taste in the mouths of those who have traditionally supported the US. I realise however that US citizens appear to be shielded from international criticism if the public adoration of George Bush is anything to go by and frankly it staggers me that there are still people in the US who believe that the war on Iraq had any connection whatsoever with the events of 9/11.

Rik

[nudeM]

I'll give those who state that there is no indications of WMD, other than documents, nothing concrete, YET, but there were illegal arsenol located. Documents connecting the Iraq government to Al Qaida, along with Al Qaida units within the Iraqi borders is another example of the relationship between the two. I, personally, believe that the President in on the right track in his combat against terrorism. These people have to be stopped, as I hope everyone also believes. Seems to me, it's always the United States who leads the policing of the world, and the ones who do the most complaining, are the ones who contribute the least, but if victory is achieved, those same "opposers" jump on board, for their share of the "victory parade". I just don't get it.

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nudeM:
I, personally, believe that the President in on the right track in his combat against terrorism. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Doesn't seem to have been too efective when you look at what's been happening just recently.

As I see it the connection between the war in Iraq and terrorism is that it has served to increase anti-American feeling throughout the middle east and this, in turn, has increased the threat of terrorism rather than reduced it.

And if you look at Iraq itself, the people of Iraq may be pleased to see the back of Saddam but that certainly doesn't mean they're pro-American which they see as an occupying force. It seems that if left to govern themselves (which is Bush's stated aim) the Iraqis will opt for a fundamentalist Islamic leadership which will, of course, be a breeding ground for terrorism.

The war against terrorism is, in my view, an unwinable war in the traditional sense. Every terrorist you disable will be replaced by 10 more willing volunteers. The US needs to understand this if it is ever to stop being a target for terrorist activity.

Rik

[Vin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rik:
No doubt their [Bush's and Blair's] trial dates will be announced soon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In the case of Bush, November 9, 2004 to be exact.

[florida-david]

vin - unfortunately, i think that bush will be re-elected to continue his craziness. remember, the war on terrorism has little to do with terrorism. did you see how bush has proposed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. hasn't this country learned that Reagan's trickle down theory did not work? why is it that big business gets a huge tax break for driving a big SUV over an efficient compact?

WHEN WILL WE LEARN!!!! sorry if i offended anyone, but we should all learn the truth one day before we vote again....

[dancin\'bare]

The war in Iraq saddened me,as did the deceptive tactics the Bush Administration used to rally the American people.
The fact that the majority of the people still supports the Bush Administration really frightens me(more so than the war itself).
Remember George W.did not win the popular vote.Was it that long ago?The "Hangin'Chad"incident.Is it me or does that sound like a pet name for a penis.
But I guess George W. could work as well.

[gamblefish]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rik:
If there was ever any doubt about whether the war in Iraq was or wasn't legal it seems to me that the lack of any evidence of WMD, which was the only legal reason for going to war, now puts Bush and Blair in the category of war criminals i.e. they acted illegally.

No doubt their trial dates will be announced soon.

Rik <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course, the UN will have to wait at least twelve years...

[Trailscout]

Rik is wrong. The mobile germ warfare labs prove that there were weapons of mass destruction. Besides, we had some unfinished business from the early 1990's. That alone was reason to resume operations in the Gulf War.

I am not a Republican. I do not defend everything that they do. I simply say that I have seen the destruction in New York and Washington and it is easy to see that defeating Iraq was simply part of the war on terrorism. There are people in both major parties in the USA and some in Britain who feel that way.

Oil makes the Mideast more volatile than it would otherwise be. We would do well to develop alternate energy sources. That way we can stay out of some of the fights over there.

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Rik is wrong. The mobile germ warfare labs prove that there were weapons of mass destruction. Besides, we had some unfinished business from the early 1990's. That alone was reason to resume operations in the Gulf War. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which particular UN resolution authorised a war against Iraq based on "unfinished business"? If you believe that the US can simply attack any other country without the sanction of the internatiopnal community then of course you're right - and indeed you don't need to justify anything to anyone - but if you believe in the rule of international law then you're wrong. As things stand right now the war was illegal and this makes the perpetrators of it war criminals.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I simply say that I have seen the destruction in New York and Washington and it is easy to see that defeating Iraq was simply part of the war on terrorism. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Easy!!?? There is no more connection between Iraq and the events of 9/11 than between the USA and the terrorists pilots who were trained by the USA.

Rather than helping to defeat the threat of terrorism this war has increased the threat. Have a look at this news item by the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2943192.stm) about the report from Amnesty International on this very issue.

Rik

[Suntied]

Rik,
Once again you feel prevoked to believe the bull that is handed down... down... down to you by the press and all of the so called reporters, authors, and writers. What do they know? What do they print? Who says what they say is TRUE?

You're so silly... it must be true 'cause the reporter said so... REALLY? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Those same reporters would be shocked to find out you run around naked all day... now that is news! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Saddam was a visious tirant and is no longer in power... so until you get enough followers (flowers) to take on the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA with GPS, B-52's, Apatchee's and guts like our soldeirs, then I would suggest that silence is in order on your part. That is just the way it is! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ATaurusJoker]

Suntied Said: Rik,
Once again you feel prevoked to believe the bull that is handed down... down... down to you by the press and all of the so called reporters, authors, and writers. What do they know? What do they print? Who says what they say is TRUE?

You're so silly... it must be true 'cause the reporter said so... REALLY?

Those same reporters would be shocked to find out you run around naked all day... now that is news!

ATaurusJoker is saying:
Since I dont believe that Suntied has any inside information on the war in Iraq I will go sooooo war as to believe that you too get your information from these sources.

So who says anything you know about this war is true?

[Suntied]

That is exactlly right Taurus... are you there... in Iraq... or Afganastan... or Bosnia... or Vietnam... or where you there when we stormed Normandy? All we can do is elect our leaders and hope they know what they are doing... which is far more intelligent than believing what some rating hungry jurnalist has to say. Did Germany elect Hitler... just courious. You all have your opinions, but the truth is only known by the leaders of this world and they sure aren't going to share it with us... we couldn't handle the truth. So... complain all you want... nothing will change because of it... but another horrible regime has bit the dust and others are scared to do anything foulish, so... I feel safer because of the actions taken by our leaders and the magnificent weaponry we have access to (our military).

If you ever do know the truth, you'll have to lie to everybody you know. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Captain Boxer Suntied /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[j4king]

Suntied and fellow truthsayers,

So let me get this straight. No matter what the evidence is, we must believe/trust the politicians because they never lie, and even if they do lie, it is becuase they know the truth, and we don't and besides they know what is best. And did I mention, they never lie.

On the other hand, journalists are not to be trusted. No matter what the evidence is. Because all they do is lie, and even if they aren't lying, they don't know the truth, so it doesn't matter.

But of course YOU know the truth. So since you don't believe any journalists, where do you get your news from? And what is YOUR truth based on. How do you know what your leaders are doing if you don't believe any journalists?

But you FEEL safer. Glad someone around here feels safer. Maybe it is YOU who can't handle the truth. Maybe Nixon didn't lie after all. Maybe he was set up by all those journalists. Maybe we are all living within the Matrix and nothing is real anyway, so it doesn't matter.