AANR getting kind of obsolete?

[auty]

[auty]

[Walt Iliff]

Hi Auty,

I see you are a relatively new member, but this is a topic that has been discussed for quite some time. I don't know where your single members have tried to attend, but with very rare exception, non co op clubs and resorts welcome single visitors (and their money) with open arms. I posted months ago on this site asking anyone who had been denied access to a non co op club to let me know, either by post, private message, or e mail of any club who had a policy of discrimination against single individual visitors. We were able to identify two, yes that's right, two clubs in the US (and a couple of Canadian and European clubs) who fell into this category. In the case of the US clubs, there were alternative resorts a few miles away. I have been single and an AANR member for many many years, and I can't tell you the number of parks and resorts I have visited and have never encountered the least bit of discrimination as a result of being single.
One area implied by your question, however, I will take some issue with. Please keep in mind that AANR has absolutely no, none, zero, nada, zip control over who the private operators and owners of nudist clubs and resorts choose to admit or not admit. That decision is strictly up to the club owner. It's is hers/his business and livelihood, and AANR or TNS, or INA, or any other association cannot dictate a club's gate policy.

Walt Iliff

[nacktman]

"AANR getting kind of obsolete?"

What do you mean kind of?

ASA, (I'll never call it AANR) has been obsolete for twenty years now.

The Naturist Society and the Intl. naturist Federation have done and do more for nudism/naturism and the individual nudist/naturist than the ASA ever did.

Even before TNS the work to secure the rights of nudists/naturists was done by the old ANA and the old ANC.

The ASA only wanted to increase its coffers and "sanction" clubs and DID have a strict policy of not granting "sanction" to any club that allowed single men to attend or join from 1933 to 1990 when the emergence of TNS and its calls for allowing singles both male and female began to take root.

I never understood why they allowed and actively encouraged single females to attend and join and barred single males. The arguement that "gender balance" had to be maintained was hogwash then as it is now, if "balance" had to be maintained no singles would ever be allowed to attend. And since when did the worry of balance not imply sexual undertones? If there are no sexual undertones to nudism/naturism, (and they're not), why worry about "gender balance"?
Before the women would feel "uncomfortable" with more men around arguement rears it's head let me say that it is our society's programing in general that makes some women "uncomfortable" around men nude or clothed not nudism/naturism and there is no worry as to "gender balance" at most any other event outside of nudism/naturism, so why bring the worry to nudism/naturism?

[Jimmie]

Hey nacktman. Well let me start by saying that I agree with you on gender balance. It should be a non issue. Now, I personally prefer to have a good mix of male to female ratio, but I don't think that not allowing single men is the way to do it. I don't have the answer to how to accomplish it either though.

I did want to point some thing out though. Gender balance is an issue at a lot of places outside of nudism. Most bars have some sort of thing to bring in woman. They either have no cover or special pricing for woman. Why? Because they know if they get the ladies in there then the men will follow. They also have ldaies day at sporting events, hell a golf resort back in Michigan even has a ladies night during the week where they get half off greens fees for a foursome of woman.

I guess my point is that gender balance is a issue everywhere in the world not just in nudism. Again I personally would like to see a more gender balanced nudist life, but banning single men is wrong. We need to act with positive incentives to get more single women in the mix, not negatively by banning single men. Also let me say that I am NOT a single guy and I havn't been since being a nudist. But I still prefer a good mix.

Thanks Jim

[Walt Iliff]

Hi Folks,

Before we completely get off topic, let me bring us back to the major question. Is there wholesale discrimination today against singles at landed, non co op clubs in the United States? Not what happened in the past, or the way it was 20 years ago. The answer is NO!!! If you are single, and carry a TNS or AANR card, there are very few places in the US where you would not be welcomed, co op clubs being an exception (Pine Tree Associates, Prairie Haven, etc.) and even with co op clubs, generally if you live outside their "service area" you would be welcome to visit. So Nacktman, if you know of any clubs that have a gate policy which discriminates against singles, please let me know and I'll check it out and report back. In the meantime, I'll stand on my previous post.

Walt Iliff

[Sanslines]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The ASA only wanted to increase its coffers and "sanction" clubs and DID have a strict policy of not granting "sanction" to any club that allowed single men to attend or join from 1933 to 1990 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Walt,

Is this true that AANR (ASA) would not grant sanction to a club that allowed single men to enter the club grounds or join the club up until 1990?

Hmmmmmmm..........since no response to this question then we can assume that it is a true statement.....hummmmmm

[nacktman]

Jimmie, the question of gender balance at events and places you mentioned are just a couple of examples of the few places outside nudism/naturism where gender balance is a thought the overwheming number of places and events where it is not an issue is almost infinite.

______________

Walt at this time I do not know which landed clubs (there are a few non-landed ones) ban or restrict single males like they used to.

The last 20yrs has brought improvement on that front 1000-fold and since I am married with a nudist wife I have not had to contend with the "singles" issue except as a board member of a club in the mid 1990's and then I pushed for an open policy for all nudists ... which was adopted and the club flourished and is flourishing to this day.

[Walt Iliff]

Thanks for the input Nacktman. Your club's experience is not unusual which is why the singles issue has pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur. Clubs have found that singles are welcome citizens with much to contribute, not only monetarily, but oftentimes have more time for volunteer efforts. Folks, if you are single and want to attend a club in your area, or are traveling and want to attend a nudist club/resort, please keep in mind the following:

1. Get a membership in TNS or AANR (this will help establish you)
2. Go to the website and CAREFULLY read the rules and regulations of the club you want to attend. This will let you have some idea of the behavior expected of you at this club.
3. Call ahead and introduce yourself. Let the club/resort know you are a TNS (or AANR) member and would like to come visit the club. Do NOT ask questions like, "Are there a lot of single females there?" "Do you allow swinging?" "Are there kids there?" and so on. Believe it or not, the people who answer the phone for clubs and resorts get an endless barrage of inappropriate questions. Nudist clubs are not the place to "hook up" or if you're single to spend one second with a child who doesn't belong to you. Most of the time though, this is spelled out in the clubs list of do's and don't's.
4. Enjoy your visit. If you had a good time, seek out the owner or the person working the office and let them know. Tell a friend, and bring someone with you the next time if possible.

Walt Iliff

[Baron Lake]

Walt, I am not sure (nor care) if Laguna del Sol is a co-op member but their singles policy is insipidly moralistic. I was once turned away not for being single but for showing up at the gate without my wife. A single friend (fellow River Dippers member at the time) waltzed right in. The owners rational for excluding married (un-accompanied) "guests" is that they might be "cheating" on their wives. Says alot about their marriage!
b.l.

[Walt Iliff]

Hi Baron,

The issue of "married singles" is thorny. Most clubs have a policy of not allowing married individuals admittance without their wives/husbands. The reasoning for this varies from club to club. Some clubs have no problem with it IF the individual spouse is a member of AANR with a family membership. The problem here Baron, is that unlike the single individuals, there is no consensus of opinion about "married singles." Most clubs position is that they do not want to be a place for a man or woman to "get away" from his/her spouse, and there have been incidents in the past about the non=attending spouse getting extraordinarily irate about where his/her spouse has been spending his/her time. I personally don't necessarily disagree with you, but it's a fight you're not likely to have much success with. I'm sorry.

Walt Iliff

[nudenwv]

i think there is no truth to that. i have visited two resorts. avalon and white thorn. http://www.avalon-resort.com; http://wwwwhitethornlodge.com i have met and chatted with several sinlge males. might be best if you went with a buddy. might make a difference than just showing up alone.

[Walt Iliff]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by keith bricker:
i think there is no truth to that. i have visited two resorts. avalon and white thorn. http://www.avalon-resort.com; http://wwwwhitethornlodge.com i have met and chatted with several sinlge males. might be best if you went with a buddy. might make a difference than just showing up alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Are you saying that there is no problem with "married singles," Keith. Or are you saying that there IS a problem with gate policies for singles? Thanks for the clarification.

Walt

[auty]

Thank you everyone, I've learned a lot. As for the places or place that refused single men, the only one I know about is in Florida. A girl wouldn't go there, she'd go to Haulover instead because her friends would say "there are no men there." A guy in California was complaining also (sorry I don't have the names of the clubs), This is the one-sided story I've been getting, hearing your side it sounds very viable.
auty

[Walt Iliff]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanslines:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The ASA only wanted to increase its coffers and "sanction" clubs and DID have a strict policy of not granting "sanction" to any club that allowed single men to attend or join from 1933 to 1990 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Walt,

Is this true that AANR (ASA) would not grant sanction to a club that allowed single men to enter the club grounds or join the club up until 1990?

Hmmmmmmm..........since no response to this question then we can assume that it is a true statement.....hummmmmm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, Sanslines, I didn't see you post. I wasn't ignoring you. In point of fact, I have recently researched the topic. According to Susan Weaver, President of AANR East, and Bill Williamson, AANR East Trustee, both long time members of ASA/AANR, to their best knowledge and belief, at least since the 1960's there has been no "sanctions" by ASA or AANR of landed clubs that had a liberal singles policy. In fact, AANR East (formerly ASA Eastern Region) had passed a motion in a Board of Directors meeting in 1984 stating that for conventions and awards, consideration would be primarily given to those clubs who had a liberal gate policy toward singles. I will freely acknowledge that it wasn't until the '90's that the tide shifted dramatically as far as singles acceptance occurred, but once again, those decisions have always been made by the individual clubs and not dictated, positively or negatively by AANR. I hope this lays to rest another urban myth.

Walt Iliff

[nacktman]

Walt, when I posted the original statement cited i was refering to "sanction" as "offically recognizing" and Awarding the ASA Certificate and/or Plaque to display at the so awarded club, not "sanction" as negative or non-endorsement of a club.

The policy I spoke to was in full force right up until the 1990's if not offically, unoffically as the last of the "old guard" still held sway until then. A nod from one of them one way or the other decided many a question until then ... it is not an urban myth.

Granted today it is the rare instance that a club is not friendly to singles, but that is only a new thing since the "old guard" have lost their pull.

[NakedGary]

Auty

[Auty's Text introduction to this Poll]
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Poll Question:
I don't know if it's just me, the single men in my yahoo group have been complaining that AANR resorts won't allow a single male in there. I've heard the same from many women too. Now if you are married or over 70, no problem. I guess do what I do and improvise a place anywhere.
auty a_750cc_chick@yahoo.com </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your poll has no meaningful results with only a yes selection. Anyone responding would result in 100% saying "AANR is getting kind of obsolete.

Your topic/thread Poll text [Question] Is four Statements about your group and members mention of single males not being admitted to clubs, and how you would "I guess do what I do and improvise a place anywhere, and a Mail to: [HyperLink] of your personal yahoo email address.

You have four separate topic/threads [Statements] mentioned for a Poll Question.

1. AANR being Obsolete
2. Mention of your groups complaints on Singles.
3. AANR Clubs not admitting male singles.
4. I guess do what I do and improvise a place anywhere.
5. Listing a Hyperlink "Mail to: [Your yahoo personal email address]

Further checking your [Unknown or Findable] xxxxxxxxxxxxx.com Yahoo Group mentioned in your Profile under "Are You a CFI Member" Relates to and transfers you to a XXX Pornographic site featuring thousands of exclusive underwater pics and videos featuring the hottest & sexiest action, and your mention of being a moderator.

I'm closing this poll and further comments, and Editing you Profile as you have made statements [Not Poll question] of your group which has been found but relate to a web site against the CFF/CFI Terms of Service, and posted a automatic "Mail to:" Hyperlink back to your personal yahoo email address as "Poll Text/Question, for members replies, both against CFF/CFI's TOS.

.