The trolls are dying...

[nacktman]

Light and truth always win over the darkness and deceit that are Trolls there always seems to be a few harder to defeat than others.

The Troll infestation that these forums has endured appears to be abating as most of the Trolls are appearing less and less here.
However they are increasing their appearances on other forums and continuing being just as they are.
Thus following their well established migratory pattern they are leaving the fertile soils here for the rock strewn crags of other forums.

Good riddance as the saying goes. Here's to the pleasent discussion and debate that can occur without Troll muck and mire.

I for one am glad they have left and are leaving. Now disagreement and debate can be civilized.

[krcNY]

I do not agree with you, I have mixed feelings http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

I do miss some of the "trolls" that are gone. Some of the debate was actually fun to watch. Yes some people did take things too personally, and things got over heated at times. (it was still fun to watch)

But I learned a lot from they different types of mindsets here on the forums. Views that I never thought about before, it just made things interesting.

Then again some people are so strong in their own beliefs, they tend to walk right over anyone who doesn't agree with them (and they don't even realize they are doing it).

[smoothm]

WWII Remember? What ever happened to "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life the right to say it!"?

[curmudgeon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nacktman:
Light and truth always win over the darkness and deceit that are Trolls there always seems to be a few harder to defeat than others.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>\

Yes, repetitive and boring references to "wing-nuts" within incoherent and irrelevant ramblings will eventually appear to defeat almost anyone or anything! Actually, though, they just got bored with the lack of substance.

[puffledud]

I too am ambivelent about their going. On the one hand they opened my mind to new ideas which is always good. On the other hand their level of disagreement did make for an uncomfortable atmosphere.

Matthew Kelly is a writer who describes 7 levels of intimacy. The first 2 levels are the levels of cliches, and the level of facts. It is the third level which he calls the level of opinions. Some people never get past this level because they don't have the maturity to allow someone to express an opposing viewpoint and not take it personnally.

As I watch, and read, the various posting I see that many of us can express an opinion and accept that someone else has a different opinion. But the people who caused such rankor, for whatever reason, couldn't let past grievences not cloud their conversations.

Well, that's my 2 cents worth.

Dave

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by smoothm:
WWII Remember? What ever happened to "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life the right to say it!"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With the often unspoken addendum - "just don't say it where I will hear you!"

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

[missouriboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It is the third level which he calls the level of opinions. Some people never get past this level because they don't have the maturity to allow someone to express an opposing viewpoint... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yup. And those people invariably reveal themselves by calling other people names, such as "wingnuts." Even "trolls," sometimes.

[Hooked]

I don't think I learned anything from the trolls. Especially when they were racist, classist or blindly partisan. Yes, their views were "different" but I don't think they were worth much. I don't mind disagreement, in fact I love it. But there is a line where disagreement becomes base and shallow and that's where I think the term "troll" applies. I'm never sorry to see someone who is rude or disrespectful or not really contributing to civilized dialogue leave a forum. I don't really know who exactly this post is directed at in particular but I do agree that the forums have been a bit more logical as of late and I'm glad about that too.

[shomymojo]

[/QUOTE]\

Yes, repetitive and boring references to "wing-nuts" within incoherent and irrelevant ramblings will eventually appear to defeat almost anyone or anything! Actually, though, they just got bored with the lack of substance.[/QUOTE]......Repetitive ramblings......That is so true..its almost like a chinese water torture....wingnuts..neocons...trolls...wingnuts.. .neocons...trolls...oh my...( sorry Dorothy)..drip...drip...drip...until its almost an echo...someone needs to write them some new lines...LOL...i actually find it all very amusing...oh well..hot tub time...woo hoo

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hooked:
I don't think I learned anything from the trolls. Especially when they were racist, classist or blindly partisan. Yes, their views were "different" but I don't think they were worth much. I don't mind disagreement, in fact I love it. But there is a line where disagreement becomes base and shallow and that's where I think the term "troll" applies. I'm never sorry to see someone who is rude or disrespectful or not really contributing to civilized dialogue leave a forum. I don't really know who exactly this post is directed at in particular but I do agree that the forums have been a bit more logical as of late and I'm glad about that too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said Hooked. You echo my sentiments and I am a bit concerned that this thread is heading towards throwing a wrench in the peace and logic we have enjoyed here lately.

[nacktman]

krcNY, not all who have left are Trolls, some are just the people the forum needs, but I had noticed they were gone prior to the Troll migration. Maybe with the Trolls departure they will return.

Hooked, this thread was not directed toward anyone, just an epression of relief that the worst of the troll infestation appears to be over.

Pasco, I shouldn't worry about the peace and logic levels here. If the last lurking Trolls show their true colors we can just ignore them. It is likely that they would do so on this thread under the misguided idea they are being singled out, making them known to all faster and thus placed on the ignore list each of us has faster.

[Qikdraw]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hooked:
I don't mind disagreement, in fact I love it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree with you.

Mwuahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!!!

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/beam.gif

Qikdraw

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nacktman:
Pasco, I shouldn't worry about the peace and logic levels here. If the last lurking Trolls show their true colors we can just ignore them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well no offense Nacktman, but I was referring to you. If these "trolls" are indeed gone why post an obviously leading comment aimed at and antagonizing them, creating an invitation for more conflict?

Isn't that by definition, "trolling"?

[usmc1]

This forum is no different than any other. Those who troll, flame, and extoll neo-con, theo-con and wing-nut extremist ideaology are unfailingly limited to one or two themes or lines of thought. Once they've been battered down on those themes half-a-dozen times they move on to other forums where they can write the same stuff again and trigger a whole new set of responses.

They're like the Whack-A-Mole game at the pizza joint, no matter how much you clobber them with alternative viewpoints, facts or essays that differ from their narrow party line the more they bounce around to poke up their heads from their little holes.

There's that, and I think the notion is starting to take hold that once they shove, they're getting shoved back. They're not used to that, and like bullies everywhere, once you face them down, they cease to be problem.

But as to debate and disputation, where does this absurd notion come from that everyone should be collegial and academic..what's wrong with a little rhetoric and calling a spade a dirty shovel now and then?

Or put it this way, if you lay up with dogs you're going to get fleas, so when you start scratching don't expect everyone to avert their gaze--some of us will point out that you're flea-ridden!

[Nude in the North]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If these "trolls" are indeed gone why post an obviously leading comment aimed at and antagonizing them, creating an invitation for more conflict? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My thoughts exactly.
Let them be, let them be gone.

Steve

[luvnaturism]

Actually some of the chief offenders never left. Others just got tired of the vitriol that invariably followed any attempt to express a different point of view and removed themselves as targets.

[Qikdraw]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usmc1:
This forum is no different than any other. Those who troll, flame, and extoll neo-con, theo-con and wing-nut extremist ideaology are unfailingly limited to one or two themes or lines of thought. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can say the same thing about far-left, conspiracy theory, tin-foil hat wearing extremists as well.

The right is not the ONLY side with trolls and nutjobs. To think so is, well to use your words, "unfailingly limited to one or two themes or lines of thought".

Qikdraw

[MJ_KC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luvnaturism:
Actually some of the chief offenders never left. Others just got tired of the vitriol that invariably followed any attempt to express a different point of view and removed themselves as targets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
In fact, they have previously posted within this thread.

[gamblefish]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It is the third level which he calls the level of opinions. Some people never get past this level because they don't have the maturity to allow someone to express an opposing viewpoint... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yup. And those people invariably reveal themselves by calling other people names, such as "wingnuts." Even "trolls," sometimes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

[usmc1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Qikdraw:
You can say the same thing about far-left, conspiracy theory, tin-foil hat wearing extremists as well.
Qikdraw </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the next time I see someone from the left sporting a tin-foil hat, I'll keep that in mind and be wary.

[karrenlandry]

After reading all of this I can see that we won't need the Trolls at all--we're pretty good at debate (civil or less so), name-calling, and sniping at bits of each others' posts, all on our own!

And maybe that's not such a bad thing.

karrenlandry

[4X]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by karrenlandry:
After reading all of this I can see that we won't need the Trolls at all--we're pretty good at debate (civil or less so),... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Judging by this thread and others I see in this particular forum, it's mostly "less so".

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">... name-calling, and sniping at bits of each others' posts, all on our own!

And maybe that's not such a bad thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Given the level of debate usually present here, it is, in fact, mostly a bad thing.

I'm with luvnaturism and MJ_KC here. Gresham's Law applies not just to currency but Internet discussions as well: just as bad currency will drive good currency out of circulation, bad discussion drives good discussion out of circulation. The people who enjoy thoughtful, civil conversation mostly have left this forum to the trolls, and those who post like trolls - you know, lying down with pigs and all that.

That's not a good thing.

[PascoDoug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4X:
Given the level of debate usually present here, it is, in fact, mostly a bad thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm with luvnaturism and MJ_KC here. Gresham's Law applies not just to currency but Internet discussions as well: just as bad currency will drive good currency out of circulation, bad discussion drives good discussion out of circulation. The people who enjoy thoughtful, civil conversation mostly have left this forum to the trolls, and those who post like trolls - you know, lying down with pigs and all that.

That's not a good thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually just the opposite has occured.. the level of civil conversation has increased leaps and bounds here - in the past month especially.

There were times in the not so distant past when I would receive almost a dozen complaints a day.. now I am lucky if a get a couple a week.

Most of the troll have been banished or have moved to safer grounds.

[Nu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PascoDoug:
There were times in the not so distant past when I would receive almost a dozen complaints a day.. now I am lucky if a get a couple a week.
Most of the troll have been banished or have moved to safer grounds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Great news.
The moderators deserve the peace.