Adding a Hard Drive

[MJ_KC]

This is a message primarily intended for USMC1.

I recently added an external 320 GB USB hard drive that works great. There is plenty of bandwidth for transferring files and the best thing is that I can move it to another computer simply by unplugging it and moving it to the other computer.

I tried installing an internal 250 GB drive and between the bios and Windows XP, the computer was just having too many problems. this was a 2nd drive that I removed from my older computer, where it worked just fine. The drive would show up OK in my newer computer, but it was like the two hard drives were fighting one another for control.

[Corky]

Did you make sure your second internal drive was set up as a slave drive using the jumpers on it?

[MJ_KC]

This drive has its own interface card and was already setup and working in my older computer and all files had been deleted. There shouldn't have been any conflicts when it went from one Windows XP computer to another, but it did not work properly. XP insisted on assigning this add-on drive as drive 0 and the "C" drive as drive 1.

This gave priority to the wrong drive and when I tried to manually force XP to swap the designations, both drives quit working.

In the end, I had to get out my restore DVD and go into the bios and set it to boot from the DVD drive. After this, I was in no mood for more experimenting. I didn't lose any data or program installations, so that was a good thing.

The new 320 GB USB drive was only $140 plus tax, and it worked on the first try. It was up and usable in about 2 minutes.

[PascoDoug]

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
This drive has its own interface card and was already setup and working in my older computer and all files had been deleted. There shouldn't have been any conflicts when it went from one Windows XP computer to another, but it did not work properly. XP insisted on assigning this add-on drive as drive 0 and the "C" drive as drive 1.

I would have put the second drive on the secondary IDE cable (usually where the cd-rom/dvd drive is). Back when I was working as a computer tech, this was actually recommended, to reduce conflicts. Hard drives from different manufacturers sometimes don't get along with one another on the same channel. I would have also deleted the old partition and created a new fresh one to format.

If it was an IDE drive it shouldn't need its own interface card. That's probably the root of your problem - the interface card was fighting with the built in HD controller on the motherboard.

[MJ_KC]

The 320 GB primary drive is actually two 160 GB drives connected via a SATA interface that makes it look like one drive. The 250 GB drive wouldn't have gotten along too well if I had hooked it into their interface.

The computer has a DVD-ROM drive and DVD-R drive on the factory IDE interface. That is why I used the interface that came with the 250 GB drive. The computer would recognize both drives just fine, but it slowed down the computer like there was a conflict over which drive should respond.

The idea of true plug-and-play is not there yet.

[MJ_KC]

The 250 GB drive has never had an operating system installed on it. This drive was only used for file storage and a few programs.

The SATA drives are the primary drives on the computer and are the original drives. They have Windows XP installed on them. In the bios, these drives were set to be the primary boot disk. I only have the factory restore DVD and do not have a separate disk with XP and the drivers.

The odd thing is that the 250 GB drive works fine as a 2nd drive in my other computer, but not in this one. It is seen without any problems, but the is a noticeable slowdown when the 250 GB drive is installed. I can disconnect it and everything returns to normal.

I may give it another try at some point, but right now 640 GB of storage seems to be enough. LOL. 890 GB would be even better though.

[WNYjoe17]

Windows would not make the initial decision of which drive is which. The BIOS would make that decision. I wonder if it would be as simple as the BIOS is an older version that did not like the stuff presented to it. I would research if you would need to flash the BIOS. It might be that is the answer.

Joe

[PascoDoug]

Originally posted by NakedGary:
MJ-KC

I guess I misunderstood your initial post in that you’re using the twin 160's [320GB] externally as the Boot drive.

No, he has two internal 160GB SATA drives (in a RAID to appear as a single 320GB drive) and an external 320GB drive (which I assume is USB2 or Firewire)

[NakedGary]

MJ-KC

I’m really confused now so I pulled my posts until I get a clear idea of Mother Board controllers, drives with separate controllers and the USB2 interfaced drive.

Do I understand correctly the Mother Board has:

A standard 2 channel enhanced ATA/IDE Interface on the mother board with a DVD-ROM, & DVD-R connected to the factory interface.

SATA interfaces on the mother board with two separate SATA 160GB drives plugged into SATA sockets on the mother board as a RAID configuration.

The above SATA drives(s) and BIOS are set to be primary default first BOOT Drives with Windows-XP booting as the Operating System.

An external USB2 320 MB Mass Storage device [Hard Drive] was hot plugged detected, and works fine as an external removable mass storage device.

MJ-KC has added another working 250MB internal enhanced ATA/IDE Hard Drive removed from an older computer with it's own PCI slot based enhanced interface ATA/IDE drive controller card and I assume 80 conductor/shielded standard IDE looking flat cable connected directly to the 250MB Hard Drive.

(It's understood that the 250MB drive was used on an older System with Win-XP as a operating system with other Hard Drives as the boot drive, so this 250MB drive was configured and physically jumpered as a slave non bootable drive that never was formatted with a operating system and used for storage and programs. All the files were deleted on this hard drive.)

OK if you agree with the above I'll tell you why I think your having problems with drive identification and slowing down when its connected.

It would be nice to know the Mfg. and model of that 250MB Drive and the make and model of the PCI enhanced controller card, and what system model or type mother board you have. You then could find the specifications of that drive for jumper selection, Interface speed, re ATA/66/100/133 etc. and the cache size, Rotation Speed, and read write performance available on the internet.

Your problem is most likely the enhanced PCI controller card which has its own BIOS which must interface through the PCI buss as a separate controller and boot device to your current mother board. This external controller does slow down the communication and path as compared to your enhanced controllers onboard. Missing drivers and/or files and drive assignment the controller writes could also add to delays and confusion.

Your mother board is newer and already has an enhanced ATA/IDE*133/100/66/33 downward compatible enhance controller onboard. There is no reason to use that slower external controller card that you brought over with the drive.

Turn off your system and unplug it from the wall as most ATX power supplies still are on and active and have logic level control and still supply power to the mother board and PCI bus.

Remove the PCI external Hard Drive controller card and set aside leaving the enhanced 80 conductor flat conductor on the drive. Check the jumpers on the back of the hard drive to insure its set as Slave drive. Now insert the keyed flat cable by itself into the unused channel IDE channel on your mother board or if necessary move the DVD's to the other channel by themselves with the DVD burner set as master, and the DVD-ROM set as slave.

Reconnect the power cord, turn on your system, and immediately go into the BIOS set up Screen. Set the detected drive 1 to auto detect (LBA) and check to see if the DVD's are detected. Exit the screen and Save [usually F10) and reboot. You now should have C: and D: if the SATA drives are separate, or C: drive 0, and D: drive 1. I would immediately set the partition active as non bootable, and re-format the 250MB without a system. It should now come up fast with no hesitation or confusion, and be a little slower but almost as fast as the SATA Primary Boot drives.

Let us know what happens and if the speed and hesitation improves, and you have another 249 MB or so of drive space. It's got to work better, faster, and more efficient this way.

Good luck,

"NG"

[usmc1]

Holy Crap! You guys have just scared the living bejesus out of me--and I ain't scared of a damned thing!

I've got a P3, with a 10 gig HD that's has about 86 to 90% used space, can we spell s-l-o-w? Defrag essentailly says don't bother, i ain't got enough room to work.

So for $100 bucks less if I go to Frys in Dallas I could add a HD, and I was thinking internal--

Eveyone tells me the process is simple and clear and that the in-box software walks you through. Well, I've heard that before.

But, my questions were going to be more along the line of, how does this work? What happens to the data on my current HD, how do the two drives work together, could I leave windows and etc, on my current drive and maybe setup the other drive with Lexus.

Am I preparing to launch my self on a fool's mission and have to take the mess to the GEEK squad to straighten out. I'm ususally fairly quick to pick things up and have added memory, changed out modems, but this I think is more than a tune-up, it seems to be rebuilding the carbuerator.

It's something I'd really rather do myself, just for the learning experience, but, I think I'll need someone to talk me through it if I hit a problem.

Anyway, its a couple of weeks in the future.

But, I got to tell you, you guys paint a daunting picture.

[PascoDoug]

Originally posted by usmc1:
Holy Crap! You guys have just scared the living bejesus out of me--and I ain't scared of a damned thing!

I've got a P3, with a 10 gig HD that's has about 86 to 90% used space, can we spell s-l-o-w? Defrag essentailly says don't bother, i ain't got enough room to work.

You have a 10 gig hard drive? Holy smokes no wonder your system is slow.

You can't be running Windows XP? I don't believe that's even possible on 10GB

Wish you were closer I could put the new hard drive in a few minutes. It is pretty easy (of course it's easy to say such having previously worked as a shop tech for five years)

The situation with MJ_KC's computer is not typical. He's dealing with two different hard drive controllers whereas yours has one. Should be a piece of cake.


But, my questions were going to be more along the line of, how does this work? What happens to the data on my current HD, how do the two drives work together, could I leave windows and etc, on my current drive and maybe setup the other drive with Lexus.

A Lexus is a nice car.. I think you mean Linux http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

If there's anything you wish to keep, the data on your current drive can be moved to the new one after Windows is reinstalled. I don't recommend keeping Windows on the 10GB drive. If you want to experiment with Linux the 10 gig would be fine for that. Linux is less of a resource hog.

Am I preparing to launch my self on a fool's mission and have to take the mess to the GEEK squad to straighten out. I'm ususally fairly quick to pick things up and have added memory, changed out modems, but this I think is more than a tune-up, it seems to be rebuilding the carbuerator.

In car lingo I'd say it's akin to puttin in a new alternator, if that.


It's something I'd really rather do myself, just for the learning experience, but, I think I'll need someone to talk me through it if I hit a problem. Anyway, its a couple of weeks in the future.

But, I got to tell you, you guys paint a daunting picture.

When the time comes let us know..

[D-TX]

Hello "usmc1",

To end up with a faster system, you might go about it this way:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Find your Windows Installation CDROM
<LI>Turn OFF your Computer
<LI>Disconnect your Original Hard Drive
<LI>Configure the New Hard Drive as the Master
<LI>Install it in place of the Original Hard Drive
<LI>Turn ON your Computer
<LI>Press whichever keys it takes to enter the BIOS settings screen
<LI>Insert the Windows Installation CDROM in the drive
<LI>Configure the BIOS to boot from your CDROM
<LI>Save the BIOS changes and Reboot
<LI>Install Windows on the New Hard Drive
<LI>Remove the Windows Installation CDROM from the drive
<LI>Turn OFF your Computer
<LI>Configure your Original Hard Drive as the Slave
<LI>Connect it to the other (Slave) connector
<LI>Turn ON your Computer
<LI>Windows should Boot from the New Hard Drive - but if it gives you a choice, select C: or the First one
<LI>Move all Data that you want to keep from the Original Hard Drive (should be D: ) to the New Hard Drive (should be C: )
<LI>You can now reformat the Original Hard Drive, and use it as a Data storage drive
[/list]

Hope this helps.

Take Care & Be A Bare,
David

[NakedGary]

usmc1

A P3 with a 10 GB Hard Drive? If you’re just going to use it for user groups, documents, and email with windows 98, and you’re satisfied with the performance I would find a reasonable HD, I have seen 80-120 GB on sale for as reasonable $49-$69 often at www.frys.com (http://www.frys.com). I would use it like it is and not put any more $$$ into an old obsolete incompatible system. It’s like trying to make an old toilet flush faster with expensive gadgets.

Be aware, an enhanced 100Mhz ATA/IDE hard drive will run slow on a P3 33Mhz IDE controller.

If you don't mind the analogy it sounds as if you’re attempting to put a large gas tank on an old Volkswagen Beatle so you can go further but you must realize it’s still a Volkswagen. Trying to add Alternators, home theater, super charged anything, is just a waste of time & $$$, its still a Volkswagen beetle.

Use it like is, or spend $300 for a new OEM built system [Has disadvantages] or learn by building your own upgradeable versatile system from current technology components available locally, or online.

Old technology systems are expensive to upgrade, & still may have poor bandwidth and Performance.

Old generation/technology systems do not have or cannot use without adapters:

Enough PCI slots to upgrade
USB2 Everything, Printers, Web cam, HD, the list goes on & on.
AGP video interface
Firewire
Flash or Thumb drives
External high speed devices.
Video and multimedia capabilities.
Speed, Bandwidth, & Performance.
LAN or Network capabilities
Not capable of using current generation operating systems, and some programs.

In upgrading using old components be aware and advised they may need adapters or not work on new systems.

New systems may not have or support:

Floppy drives
Parallel Printer Ports for old Printers.
Serial Port for old external modems.
Old style Keyboard connector without adapters.
Old style Mouse connector without adapters.

Hope you can benefit or decide to upgrade the old VW Beetle for <$80, or get with the new gen. for <$300

"NG"

[Naturist Mark]

USMC1: how much you willing to spend? For $200 or so you can get a new motherboard, CPU, memory and 180gb hard drive that can be stuffed into your current box and give you essentially a new machine that will fly. Talk to the Geeks at Fry's.

Just adding a hard drive is pretty easy, especially if you have an open plug on your EIDE cable and your system is set for cable select.

If you don't want to pay the Geek squad from Fry's, ask around for a teenager you can borrow.

-Mark

[Unwired]

usmc1: You're near Dallas?

Skip Fry's and instead talk to the geeks at Micro Center (http://www.microcenter.com/at_the_stores/richardson.html) in Richardson off Central Expressway. They're lots more helpful than the whiteshirts at Fry's, and their DIY department (mainboards, hard drives, etc) is better organized too. I wish we had one here...



UW

[Qikdraw]

Man... I should have posted here for some upgrade advice. I'm getting ram, (2gb) video card, power supply and a new HD. My current HD is making nice grinding noises. (it out of warrenty too)

I do have a question though. I am going from IDE to SATA hard drive. Can I make my IDE a slave to the SATA so I can transfer over files?

Qikdraw

[OZJames]

Great topic - so helpful for us floundering computer enthusiasts, all who don't know much but are willing to try anything fiddling with computer hardware , sometimes ending up in a great mess.

I have printed this topic for future reference.

This topic (or similar titled "COMPUTER HELP for NUDE NERDS") could outstrip "Are My voices Offending You"

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/beam.gif <span class="ev_code_RED">JAMES</span> http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/beam.gif

[PascoDoug]

I do have a question though. I am going from IDE to SATA hard drive. Can I make my IDE a slave to the SATA so I can transfer over files?

You can't put an IDE drive with an SATA as the cables and connectors are totally different, though there are adapters you can buy for around $10-$15

Otherwise you'll need a motherboard that has both an SATA and IDE controller.

[Unwired]

If your drive is making grinding noises then I would strongly suggest you do something immediately to back up your data, because it sounds like its time is just about up. You might consider an external USB drive as an emergency; I don't think it's a good idea to trust that a grinding HD is going to make it much longer.



UW

[Naturist Mark]

I do have a question though. I am going from IDE to SATA hard drive. Can I make my IDE a slave to the SATA so I can transfer over files?
No, master and slave is only necessary when two hard drives are connected to the same cable. With one SATA and one EIDE drive you will not only have separate cables, but completely separate controllers for each.

Not to worry - as long as both are properly connected to the computer you will be able to copy files over.

-Mark

[PascoDoug]

Since we're talking computers and upgrades I just thought I would recommend my favorite online retailer - Newegg.com (http://www.newegg.com)

They have excellent prices (definitely better than Best Buy and the like) and usually very fast shipping.

I've been very happy with them, and my digital camera loves the 2GB flash card I recently got it for $20.

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by Unwired:
Skip Fry's and instead talk to the geeks at Micro Center (http://www.microcenter.com/at_the_stores/richardson.html) in Richardson off Central Expressway. They're lots more helpful than the whiteshirts at Fry's, and their DIY department (mainboards, hard drives, etc) is better organized too. I wish we had one here...



UW
My computer is a PowerSpec system from MicroCenter.

It uses an AMD Athlon 3700+ 64 bit processor and performs really well. I just seem to burn through the hard drive at a rapid rate, but with 640 GB of storage, I finally have enough to last awhile.

[Paniga]

Just remember with a USB HD to use the xp shutdown icon for it before you just hit the power button on the case. IF you shut it down just with the power button you may mess it up and you will need to format it before you can use it again (found out the hard way)

[NakedGary]

Qikdraw

Man... I should have posted here for some upgrade advice. I'm getting ram, (2gb) video card, power supply and a new HD. My current HD is making nice grinding noises. (it out of warrenty too)

I do have a question though. I am going from IDE to SATA hard drive. Can I make my IDE a slave to the SATA so I can transfer over files?

Qikdraw
Your Slave question: Not workable as the interface cables are completly different as well as the controllers.

EIDE being a Parallel transfer.
SATA being a Serial transfer.

IMPOSSIBLE to do As Naturist Mark said NO. It won't work and you wouldn't want to do it if you could [Different cables]

Even on ATAPI/EIDE cables you never want to slave a slower drive as the controller/interface defaults to the slowest drive

<span class="ev_code_red">May I also suggest that you use that drive to an absolute minimum until you get your SATA drive installed as a boot device.</span> Then you can transfer any files, data, etc. but unwise to copy complex programs over from their folders unless they down loaded install program files.

Start out bootable, fresh and fast on that SATA drive, then install the programs from their install CD's, then go to those websites for updates.

Another option is to use Drive copy, ghost, or similar programs to copy contents of the old drive to the new one, but that’s not wise to do as your configuration has changed and might not be compatible with all the dll's and various program files spread all over that old drive, and that’s not the way to improve or maintain the speed your have with a fresh new drive and program installation.

So leave the drive on the ATAPI/EIDE buss but get the SATA installed ASAP, then just transfer your files, images, Back up, and any program data history <span class="ev_code_red">BEFORE THAT OLD DRIVE FAILS.</span>

A noisy grinding sound is usually indication of the bearings going bad, and when it cannot pass the turn on self test for speed up the drive will give ramp up errors and be unusable, and sometimes lock & seize up and smoke the spindle motor voltage regulator and sometime the motor. If the drive is 4-5 years old get out the data while you can, then get the drive out of the system.
.

[NakedGary]

Paniga

Just remember with a USB HD to use the xp shutdown icon for it before you just hit the power button on the case. IF you shut it down just with the power button you may mess it up and you will need to format it before you can use it again (found out the hard way)

You should always do a windows software external mass storage device disconnect before shutting down a PC via Windows.

Never hard reset a motherboard if you see any internal or external hard drives, or Flash USB drives activity light flashing.

Do a windows external mass storage device safe disconnect before pulling any devices or disconnecting the logic interface cord or shutting off the external drive power switch.

Always do a Windows soft Hibernate, Stand By, Turnoff or Restart via the mouse and/or keyboard.

Never shut off a PC while it running via the front or rear power switch unless there is no other way to do so due to a program, or CPU hang up. (*)

* The two ways below will help you diagnose or get out of a program, screen, or CPU lock up:

1. If keyboard cap locks, ScrLk, or Num LED indicators don't change when you hit those keys it means the CPU or Clock is hung up.

2. Upon program, screen, or keyboard/mouse freeze or lock out try pressing "Ctrl""Alt""Delete" keys at the same time Only Once [If screen, Program, KB/Mouse unlock fine, If not do that same sequence twice in quick succession for a soft system/windows reset.

If neither of the above work, your in a hard freeze or lock out and have no alterative except to do a front case panel reset if you have one, or try a logic front panel power off by holding down the power switch for at least 4-8 seconds, or reaching to the back power supply master power switch [If you have one] or pulling the power line cord out of the wall or rear of the power supply while no drive activity lights are flashing. (*)

* The ATX motherboard BIOS setup screen settings will determine configurations and actions if there is a power failure, or if there is wake on “LAN” ”Modem” or “KB/Mouse activity from Standby Modes, Screen Save functions, and Smart Hard Drive, “Stand By”, Auto power down or up, and Sleep, and device priority for booting after reset, power failure, or normal power off/on via the front panel switch.

If you hibernate/standby, shutdown, or reset via windows you should never corrupt any internal, external or flash/thumb drives.

Paniga, did you forget, or why did you shut off the power while the PC was running and/or the drives were having read/write activity?
.

[NakedGary]

Naturist Mark/usmc1,

USMC1: how much you willing to spend? For $200 or so you can get a new motherboard, CPU, memory and 180gb hard drive that can be stuffed into your current box and give you essentially a new machine that will fly. Talk to the Geeks at Fry's.

I doubt early P3 motherboards cases especially if OEM manufactured had the correct Power supply and power connectors for current motherboard CPU requirements, and a majority that far back didn’t have the insertable and changeable ATX mini, or micro plates for rear case chassis ports and interface. Cutting metal and hacking out holes for sockets and plugs plus stand off's to mount the mother board would just be a pain in the a.s! and look terrible. Lower end reasonable but functional cases with power supplies compatible with ATX full, mini and micro MotherBoards with and CPU, and logic switches controlling power supply through the MB are available from 29.95 to 69.95.

I think your $200 to stuff an old case is about $100 off even at sale prices.

From Fry's local news paper add & online"

Case with ATX power supply $39.95
MB Intel 945 socket
3.2Ghz, CPU, Fan $108.95
1gig DDR2 Memory $69.99
WD 320GB SATA HD $89.99
Case Fan, KB, Mouse adapt. $15.00
__________________________________
$323.88
7.75% Sales Tax $25.10

Total parts $348.98

Using old CD-Rom/DVD
Any PCI adapters
AGP/PCI Video card

I see whole OEM systems for with
Monitor, KB, mouse and speakers
for + - $45 or so from above

I would much rather have a Compatible Case, MotherBoard, that could be changed than a
OEM system but one must consider the benefits
Of OEM bundles with Vista, and Software.

So around $300 to $350 is will get a fast good size HD and system with a few hours work to assemble, and a few more to configure load, and install software and operating system if everything goes well.
.

[NakedGary]

Link to: USB Flash Drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_key)

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by NakedGary:
Link to: USB Flash Drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_key)
I have a 6 GB USB Flash Drive that I purchased for about $50 including tax. I was just checking some prices and found that some of the 2 GB drives are around $25 and 4 GB drives are going for about $40. Now I have a better idea of just how good a deal I got when I bought mine.

[NakedGary]

MJ_KC

Look at the size of them.

This one could go inside your wallet and have room to spare.

I looked for fast ones on sale and got a Sandisk Cruzer the other day 1 GB w/U3 S/W and its Vista Ready Boost compatible for $12.99. I still have my first 64MB thumb drive that was slow USB1 @ cost $39 dollars.

I’ve used them for years to transfer images, down from camera, use on MP3 Player downloading video, You Name it.

I even hear you can make it a boot device and more or less operate as a stand alone micro PC at anyone’s system.

Actually more Secure now if you if your at a internet cafe instead of leaving bits and bytes all over someone else network or PC.

Some are secure and one flash drive has an infrared finger print reader that will only work for you if lost or stolen.

[Qikdraw]

Thanks for the great advice guys!

I have the Intel DS865PERL mobo, so it has IDE and SATA slots. So when I put in the SATA I just go into the bios and make sure that is my boot drive and reinstall windows and such, then transfer files over right?

These new fangled computers... Who would ever need more than 640k memory anyway?

*sigh*

Qikdraw

[NakedGary]

Qikdraw

There is two or three ways of doing that, but starting fresh with new drive and Windows is the cleanest, and best way as the drive is not cluttered with a bunch of unused or dll's, and registry that will slow you down.

You can also use programs like drive copy that copies total contents of your old drive to the new drive, and then you just continue on as before.

For some starting over is a huge time consuming task as program, configurations, passwords, cookies, and all kinds of specifics to programs, drivers, and some start from scratch installations require old original CD's unlock keys, serial numbers, and registration codes and so on.... So it's not a plug and play situation to get back like you were.
.

[Qikdraw]

I know... Thats why I've been dreading doing it. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/beam.gif

I still haven't ordered anything yet. Probably this week though.

Qikdraw

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by NakedGary:
Your mother board is newer and already has an enhanced ATA/IDE*133/100/66/33 downward compatible enhance controller onboard. There is no reason to use that slower external controller card that you brought over with the drive.

What I finally did was to disconnect my hard drive from its controller and just plug it into an open IDE connector on the mother board. I did not need any jumpers on the drive because it is the only device on the cable and this is what it says to do when it is the only drive. I connected power to the drive and turned the system back on and presto it is working fine. Took about 5 minutes.

While doing this, I discovered that the documentation is wrong regarding the two 160 GB drives. They are just a couple of IDE drives running in a RAID configuration to look like one drive. According to the info when I bought the computer, they were supposed to be SATA drives. There are two SATA connectors on the mother board that are not being used.

Thanks for the help everybody. I thought about what everybody had written and then considered what this computer might be able to do without the extra card and decided to give it a try. The built in IDE didn't cause any conflicts, unlike what the PCI card seemed to be doing.

Now I have 890 GB of storage and it is all working properly. I think that USMC1 was on to something when he suggested that we have a separate computer forum instead of just posting under Open Conversation.

[PascoDoug]

Ok folks! The new Tech Talk forum is now operational. Let the pleas for help commence!

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/smash.gif

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by PascoDoug:
Ok folks! The new Tech Talk forum is now operational. Let the pleas for help commence!

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/smash.gif
Thanks. I think that this is going to be a big help to quite a few people.

[NakedGary]

Thanks "usmc1" for the suggestion

Thanks "PascoDoug" for implementing the new Forum so quickly.

Everyone on here has at least one computer, so why not Tech Talk.

It should be the "Nudie'est" tech talk on line!

[PascoDoug]

Originally posted by NakedGary:
Everyone on here has at least one computer, so why not Tech Talk.

It should be the "Nudie'est" tech talk on line!

Just to clarify - this forum isn't just for computers - it's for asking help with any technical issue - electronics, cars, audio/video, home improvement etc. While I am sure most questions will be computer related I'm also sure we have people willing to share their knowledge in those other areas as well.

[MJ_KC]

Pretty soon this will be the only message board that a lot of us will need. There are enough people from a lot of different backgrounds to cover just about any topic that comes up.

[PascoDoug]

Gary those cases are cool but let's wait until someone asks a question about an item before turning the forum into another random photo gallery.

Also, it would be proper to start a new topic for each subject as this one was about adding a hard drive

Thanks

[NakedGary]

Link to PC Mag: Toshiba's new 200GB External Drive (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2114038,00.asp)

[usmc1]

OK, it is close to time for the games to commence. But, first another question. Am I spitting into the wind by merely adding or replacing hard drive?

My PC is a DELL GX110. P-III, 933MHZ set to normal speed with 512MB SDRAM with BUS Speed of 133 mHZ, clock Speed 933, Cache Size 256KB.
OS is XP SP2.

And since we live way the hell out yonder, all I can get is dial up. Or satellite, if I want to pay through the yahootie!

On a 10 gig HD, yep a tad slow and balky.

So, the question is...am I wasting my time by adding a HD? I know it would improve my speed and performance, but would it improve it enough. Would it be like putting a BMW decal on a Ford Fairlane?

Or should I be thinking, newer PC or even a combo upgrade by adding a faster CPU plus a larger HD. I don't game, but at some point I'd like to be able to download vidos and music and maybe even mix videos.

[hm0504]

Originally posted by usmc1:
OK, it is close to time for the games to commence. But, first another question. Am I spitting into the wind by merely adding or replacing hard drive?

My PC is a DELL GX110. P-III, 933MHZ set to normal speed with 512MB SDRAM with BUS Speed of 133 mHZ, clock Speed 933, Cache Size 256KB.
OS is XP SP2.

And since we live way the hell out yonder, all I can get is dial up. Or satellite, if I want to pay through the yahootie!

On a 10 gig HD, yep a tad slow and balky.

So, the question is...am I wasting my time by adding a HD? I know it would improve my speed and performance, but would it improve it enough. Would it be like putting a BMW decal on a Ford Fairlane?

Or should I be thinking, newer PC or even a combo upgrade by adding a faster CPU plus a larger HD. I don't game, but at some point I'd like to be able to download vidos and music and maybe even mix videos.

If you want to mix videos, I'd recommend at least 2GM of RAM and suggest going for 4GM or more (depends on your video sizes and quality).

Otherwise (forgetting the mixing of videos), you are probably OK with just getting a new HD but don't bother planning to upgrade to Vista with 512 MB.

Of course you could always put Linux (e.g. Puppy Linux or Ubuntu) on your current machine if you decide to get a new one.

Let's see what others say.

[NakedGary]

susmc1,

I thought your issue was addressed earlier in this thread in detail. From what I read, here is is my suggestion.

I’m very surprised an old P-III mother board and CPU are doing so well with Windows XP and a 10gig Old Slow HD and a dial up modem.

Re: Microsoft Windows XP home System Requirement:

Here's What You Need to Use Windows XP Home Edition
• PC with 300 megahertz (MHz) or higher processor clock speed recommended; 233-MHz minimum required;* Intel Pentium/Celeron family, AMD K6/Athlon/Duron family, or compatible processor recommended

• 128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum supported; may limit performance and some features)

• 1.5 gigabyte (GB) of available hard disk space.*

• Super VGA (800 × 600) or higher resolution video adapter and monitor

• CD-ROM or DVD drive

• Keyboard and Microsoft Mouse or compatible pointing device

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

You must decide if your need is only storage space, or a system performance upgrade with expensive accessories or conversions costing more than just buying a new motherboard/CPU combo with the latest technologies, interface, and compatibility for right around $100.

The cons of adding storage, conversions, or accessories to an old PIII class system and motherboard for performance is; your adding faster interface and performance components, and drives that will be bogged down by the weakest link in the chain of interfaces existing which are very slow to say the least. It's Like adding accessories to a VW bettle to make it go faster.

If you can stand the slow system performance you have the easiest, fastest, and most reasonable way to add high performance hard drive is to purchase an external USB2 hard drive, and a PCI USB2 interface card to your system. That way you may just plug and play the external HD on any system or upgrade you do in the future, and still retain high speed HD performance even on your old Dell system.

Be forewarned by installing a new hard drive internally to the existing IDE interface channel your 10 gig drive is on will only bog down the new drive to the performance of the slowest drive on that channel. If you have optical drives on the other IDE channels this presents a problem.

Upgrading an old OEM system chassis such as the Dell you have is sometimes not possible or not recommended as the existing power supplies are definitely not adequate or useable and often are an odd physical size unique to their chassis where a new ATX compatible power supply would just not fit your chassis and case. The form factor and mounting of your motherboard, rear socket interface ports are just not adaptable to new components.

I say use your system as it is by buying adding an external USB2 Hard drive useable on any newer technology system anywhere. If your not the technical DYI "Do it Yourself" type go out and by another OEM built complete system for as low as $250-$299.00, or build your own new system from scratch and commonly available compatible components off the shelf and upgradeable. Then you could dedicate your old slow system to CFF Forums, email, and word processing, and have another system for performance and multi-media demanding capabilities, and still just plug in that new external USB Hard Drive.

Below are some helpful links in making your decision to higher capacity and performance:

http://www.daileyint.com/build

http://www.duke.edu/~dah7/PowerLeap-GX110.htm (http://www.duke.edu/%7Edah7/PowerLeap-GX110.htm)

Vendor links such as Fry's and Microcenter mentioned previously in the thread.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
.

[shomymojo]

USMC1...sounds to me like it is time for an upgrade out there in East Texas...a New Computer...and my good friend in Kilgore...who also lives in the boonies...loves his satellite broadband connection...it makes his television reception great...and his computer fast http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

[usmc1]

Originally posted by NakedGary:
susmc1,

I thought your issue was addressed earlier in this thread in detail. From what I read, here is is my suggestion.

I’m very surprised an old P-III mother board and CPU are doing so well with Windows XP and a 10gig Old Slow HD and a dial up modem.

Re: Microsoft Windows XP home System Requirement:

Here's What You Need to Use Windows XP Home Edition
• PC with 300 megahertz (MHz) or higher processor clock speed recommended; 233-MHz minimum required;* Intel Pentium/Celeron family, AMD K6/Athlon/Duron family, or compatible processor recommended

• 128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum supported; may limit performance and some features)

• 1.5 gigabyte (GB) of available hard disk space.*

• Super VGA (800 × 600) or higher resolution video adapter and monitor

• CD-ROM or DVD drive

• Keyboard and Microsoft Mouse or compatible pointing device

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

You must decide if your need is only storage space, or a system performance upgrade with expensive accessories or conversions costing more than just buying a new motherboard/CPU combo with the latest technologies, interface, and compatibility for right around $100.

The cons of adding storage, conversions, or accessories to an old PIII class system and motherboard for performance is; your adding faster interface and performance components, and drives that will be bogged down by the weakest link in the chain of interfaces existing which are very slow to say the least. It's Like adding accessories to a VW bettle to make it go faster.

If you can stand the slow system performance you have the easiest, fastest, and most reasonable way to add high performance hard drive is to purchase an external USB2 hard drive, and a PCI USB2 interface card to your system. That way you may just plug and play the external HD on any system or upgrade you do in the future, and still retain high speed HD performance even on your old Dell system.

Be forewarned by installing a new hard drive internally to the existing IDE interface channel your 10 gig drive is on will only bog down the new drive to the performance of the slowest drive on that channel. If you have optical drives on the other IDE channels this presents a problem.

Upgrading an old OEM system chassis such as the Dell you have is sometimes not possible or not recommended as the existing power supplies are definitely not adequate or useable and often are an odd physical size unique to their chassis where a new ATX compatible power supply would just not fit your chassis and case. The form factor and mounting of your motherboard, rear socket interface ports are just not adaptable to new components.

I say use your system as it is by buying adding an external USB2 Hard drive useable on any newer technology system anywhere. If your not the technical DYI "Do it Yourself" type go out and by another OEM built complete system for as low as $250-$299.00, or build your own new system from scratch and commonly available compatible components off the shelf and upgradeable. Then you could dedicate your old slow system to CFF Forums, email, and word processing, and have another system for performance and multi-media demanding capabilities, and still just plug in that new external USB Hard Drive.

Below are some helpful links in making your decision to higher capacity and performance:

http://www.daileyint.com/build

http://www.duke.edu/~dah7/PowerLeap-GX110.htm (http://www.duke.edu/%7Edah7/PowerLeap-GX110.htm)

Vendor links such as Fry's and Microcenter mentioned previously in the thread.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
.

OK, you're right, but some of those replies got too technical for me and drifted off into other issues. But, I did go back and reread them.

Here's where I am. I've decided to go with an internal, primarily for two reasons.

1. My understanding is that I would need to leave my programs on the existing internal 10 gig drive and use the external for files and etc.

It seems to me that with Win XP being the biggest space user along with all of the related programs, I'd not be improving myself that much.

Does that make sense or am I confused.

2. It just seems a lot simpler to go internal.

Today, I opened the box just to rehearse the mechanics of opening the had drive frame work and etc. That part of it seems simple enough.

The current HD has a flat cable connecting it to the mother board. That tells me it's EIDE, right and that the HD I buy should be EIDE. Correct?

The cable has a slot on it, similar to the slot on the motherboard. The new HD will atttach to the slot on the cable and not the motherboard, correct?

There is also an unused plug coming off the cable and it will attach to the new HD as does the other plug. Correct?

Sorry for such basic questions, but this is the kind of thing that calls for me to make haste slowly--it's like a new recipe..one should read it three times before starting preparation.

I know I'm sounding like the idiot son-in-law, but it's how I learn.

If you ever want to learn how to cross an open field on on a moonbright night without being seen, I can teach you how to do that.

[usmc1]

OK, I bought the HD. I'm up on the mechanics and procedures of the process. And have a standby available if I mess up.

But, I'm still a bit confused about the choices I should make in relation to the programs and files on my existing drive and the added drive.

Which should be master and which should be slave? And why?

Someone told me I should just use the software with the new drive and "copy" everything over to the new drive. But, I don't undetand why I would do that and leave the same programs and files on the old drive. What's the point of that?

If my original problem stems from the fact that my 10gig, which has only about 4% left, is too crowded and slowing me down why would I want to leave everything on it and use it as the master.

Obviously, I'm still not clear on the concept.

I guess I'm trying to grasp the process that takes place after I put in the added larger hard drive, and what I have to do to maximize that change.

[NakedGary]

usmc1

As mentioned previously

The old drive if left in or on the same IDE channel the new drives interface and transfer will only be as fast as the slowest drive on that channel.

You want to get the old 10 gig drive out as being the boot drive, and put it on another IDE channel if you want to use it for storage.

Some new drives such as Western Digital and others come with installation package which enables one to mirror the old drive [copy complete drive including boot and tracks 0, 1 and hidden you never see] to the new drive, so you can just replace the old drive, or set it as slave [preferably on another IDE channel] and use the new drive as the primary boot, and system drive.

There are several optional utility programs that can do this also. I use "Drive Copy" which use to be the same company that sold "Partition Magic" "Power Quest" if believe which was bought out by Norton or http://www.symantec.com/ "Ghost" is another program I recall that has the transfer to new drive features.

Do not just copy the contents of the old drive over to the new drive, or copy program files and folders over to the new drive. This is a big mistake many make and they develop huge time consuming problems in correcting such if they expect those copied programs and files to work after doing that. Most loose their working programs if that’s the only copy they have and transfer them that way and have not way to make them work again unless you have the original disks, CD's, or DVD's, registration and install codes, and/or Serial numbers. Uninstalling programs from a system or drive should only be done with your systems add/remove, or install utilities as hidden files, .dll's and many program files are not copied over, or removed by copying drive contents, files, or programs over with the copy, or drag and drop feature of windows or Mac operating systems.

So its better to be safe than sorry after the fact [and loss of data and programs, history, and files] to properly transfer data, hidden files, programs, boot tracks and files to a new bootable drive with the provided software or outside known software programs for that purpose.

The only other safe way is to install the new drive by itself only [remove the old slow, low capacity drive] boot from the windows CD and install windows as if it was a new never run system, installing windows, and preparing the new drive as the bootable primary drive, then install all the old or wanted programs by re installing them from their original sources, CD, or install files. The old drive then can be re jumper'ed as a slave drive and installed on the other IDE channel, and used to copy files, history, data, or install program files to the new drive. By doing the new drive/system/install you must previously copied down all configs, passwords, and setups to communications, programs, and configurations as you will loose them with a new install.

The fastest, best, and safest way is as mentioned before if your computer is functioning now, is to use the mentioned "Drive Copy" or supplied vendor program to copy bit by bit 100% of the old drive boot, operating, and programs, history, data, images, and multi-media, over to the new drive from the old drive and use and Boot from the new drive. After that’s successful, then you can slave the old drive and delete the old contents, or use it for additional storage, archives, or temporary storage and use. Keep in mind the old drive is probably reaching its expected life span, so get what you want to keep or save off of that drive while it’s still functional before it fails as a useable drive.
.

[usmc1]

Thanks to everyone that held my hand as I crossed the street. Couldn't have done it without you lugs. I'll share my milk and graham crackers with you someday.

OK, the deed is done, but a couple of questions linger. I installed a Seagate 160gb.

Install and set up went fine, I followed instructions and set it as my boot drive, copying from the original drive, files and applications. CD that came with the drive was very good and painless.

As soon as I know I'm in fine shape, I'll master the new drive and clean and slave the old drive for future experimentation with another OS. I'm assuming that process is to change the jumpers and rearrange the connections on the ribbon? RIGHT? That's all? Or is there more to that?

I know the dual OS will be a real challenge, etc. But, the process of changing new drive to master and old drive to slave is fairly basic?

But.....two things I don't entirely understand.

1. New drive shows in My Computer as the E-Drive. But, in system start-up, it is shown as "off" and the old drive is "on". Is that because the new drive is the still the "slave" and the old drive is still the "master"?

Or should they both be on?

2. In copying and backing up programs I've got a weird thing in "Money". I folowed prompts and did a back up floppy in the "A" drive.

Now money won't open from the main program, I have to insert the backup disk to make it open?? What's that about?

[Rabid_Clam]

OK, it is close to time for the games to commence. But, first another question. Am I spitting into the wind by merely adding or replacing hard drive?

My PC is a DELL GX110. P-III, 933MHZ set to normal speed with 512MB SDRAM with BUS Speed of 133 mHZ, clock Speed 933, Cache Size 256KB.
OS is XP SP2.

And since we live way the hell out yonder, all I can get is dial up. Or satellite, if I want to pay through the yahootie!

On a 10 gig HD, yep a tad slow and balky.

So, the question is...am I wasting my time by adding a HD? I know it would improve my speed and performance, but would it improve it enough. Would it be like putting a BMW decal on a Ford Fairlane?

Or should I be thinking, newer PC or even a combo upgrade by adding a faster CPU plus a larger HD. I don't game, but at some point I'd like to be able to download vidos and music and maybe even mix videos.

You have a very ancient system that needs to be swapped out for a P4 and 2 gig memory. What you have is now obsolete.

The bigger hard drive is great, but Dell has propriatary software where they put the Windows platform on the drive/your computer and it has been radically changed in the CAB files, mostly ads and all for Dell.

There is also a small part of your hard drive that has the total original OEM software package loaded on it so if you totally wipe out that hard drive you wipe out that hidden partition that has this on it.

Best bet is to copy the 'C' drive to a new hard drive, and bigger ones are now very reasonable. I got a 320 Gig for less than $100 and you need to do the same. You can make logical drives in the estended partition if you make the primary partition less than 320 and I would suggest you do that also. Make the 'C' drive at least 150 gig and the rest you can divide up into File Storage area where you can save down loaded EXE files and other applications. Be sure to create a folder for each so you can find them later.

Then you can create a partiton to store pictures. 50 to 100 gig would be adequate size for that where the file store could be 20 or 25 gig and that would be much more than plenty. Actually 10 to 15 gig would be plenty for file store. It is all up to you and your needs how big you make these things. By making more logical partitions you make all your data more easily accessable where it is organized. Making a folder for all your ap down loads, each and every one, is an absolute muist where you will not only loose it but not be able to ID it in the mass of stuff. Naming the folder for what it is will make ALL your down loads easy to find when you need them and also back up to a DVD as you do your Pictures and all.

This makes a most logical and easy to manipulate system for you.