Some Statistics

[Sanslines]

Some Important Statistics to put things into perspective:

Between 2001 and 2006:

3,000 (nearly) Americans died from terrorism

30,000 died from food poisoning

240,000 died on our highways

500,000 died from guns

600,000 died from medical mistakes

[BinCo]

sanslines, please quote your statistics.

Look them up on the CDC website, your gun statistics are all wet, if you are only talking about America.

I had a listing from 2001 that showed the real numbers. Here are a few rounded off from 2001.

3000 from terrorism: yup.

30,000 died from food poisoning, not a listed cause of death that can be pinpointed.

240,000 died on the highways, possible 45,000 in 2001 alone (1.2 million injuries requiring a hospital visit) 47,000 in 2004

500,000 died from guns. No way. 28,000 in 2001, including 13,000 self inflicted suicides, the rest were accidents and murders. 33,436 in 2004, including 16,611 by suicide

600,000 from medical mistakes, nope, 2889 in 2004

Here are the scary numbers:

122,000 from lung disease in 2004 alone, not including cancer
550,000 from cancer in 2004 alone
652,000 from heart disease in 2004 alone

The CDC adds up and does stats on every single death in the US that has a death certificate. Look at them sometime, they are interesting.

Here is the 2004 results, the last year available. Notice that the heart and lung disease has been split removing cancer to it's own category.
cdc pdf of death stats (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr54/nvsr54_19.pdf)

[Sanslines]

With the exception of the gun death statistics, all other statistics ultimately came from Randall Larsen, who is a retired US Air Force Colonel and the Director of the Institute for Homeland Security in Alexandria, Virginia.

Here is another different supporting stat for physician deaths:

(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

(Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services)

[BinCo]

Don't feel alone, I know plenty of people who quote that gun number too. I point them to the CDC website also.

You might want to point Mr. Larsen to the CDC website and let him see the real numbers.

So many are killed needlessly that outlawing cigarettes and fattening foods would save tens of thousands. Calling for a driving test every 5 years would probably save thousands and certainly reduce accidents by getting bad drivers off the road and reminding everyone what the rules really are. Since they are not as politically driven as gun control it might never happen.

[Sanslines]

From what I have gathered so far, that gun death statistic includes anything related to guns including homocides, suicides, accidental deaths, etc. I do not know why they quoted such a high number but even if the number is closer to an average of 30,000 deaths per year giving 150,000 total deaths for those five years, the death rate is still terrible.

[Von]

I had a professor that wouldn't believe any given statistic unless it could be verified by three independent sources. I like to live by that same standard.

[nacktman]

Issuing a TROLL ALERT!

Deliberate misquotation and citation along with imaginary bona fide(s).

Do not fall into the trap!

[BinCo]

Who is trolling?

The stats that sanslines says are quite often inflated like that.

I would like to look at 3 sources. Anyone else have a source for every single death in the US sorted by type of death?

CDC is the only official one I know of. Numbers don't lie, percentages do.

[nimrod]

What is the point of this? Is it to show that we do not have to worry about terrorist? Is the 3000 killed by terrorism just what happened on 9/11? If that is the case it seems right, but there as been a war going on because of "terrorism" that as caused alot of deaths, not just our countrymen, but also citizens of the country we invaded. Is it to show just how wrong it was for Bush to invade Iraq? If you look at the statistics we should have invaded the medical profession instead.

[Sanslines]

Now to solve the mystery as to why these statistics were given by Randall Larsen.

Larsen gave these statistics to put things into perspective and in support of the claim that another terrorist attack on American soil is inevitable. However, instead of calling for higher walls and more airport screenings, he suggests that resources should be directed to secure the worst case scenarios involving BNC (biological, nuclear, and chemical) attacks and accept that no amount of security can make the country safe from every possible threat. He further elaborates that fear should never be used to motivate people for the fear of terrorism has blown it way out of proportion.

[nacktman]

Originally posted by BinCo:
Who is trolling?

The stats that sanslines says are quite often inflated like that.

I would like to look at 3 sources. Anyone else have a source for every single death in the US sorted by type of death?

CDC is the only official one I know of. Numbers don't lie, percentages do.

The entire topic is a trolling effort BinCo and the 3-Rule is not a bad one in this case.

Over-inflation of numbers like those cited are designed to 'scare' the targeted audience and as such are a form of trolling.

As another source I would check with the World Health Organization and see their numbers ... but take into account the 'inflation' of numbers there as well (the CDC numbers are skewed to certain areas as well), and remember that 'inflation' can actually be a 'minimization' as well to shift focus from one area to another depending on the 'agenda' of the source of the numbers.

nimrod is correct, "What is the point of this?".

[Sanslines]

Nacky must be bored and (as usual) looks to stir the pot, annoy others, and start fights while contributing nothing of value to the topic at hand. Instead of engaging in his nonsense, he wins the grand prize and winds up on the BIG IGGY list. I suggest others also award him the grand prize and put him on their own private IGGY list. It's the only (and best) way that we can all silence and quarterdeck the mutha sucka.

[nacktman]

BinCO, here are actual numbers as they are broken down for the past six years since September 11, 2001.
This is just the domestic numbers and does not include any deaths of US citizens outside the USA or any military deaths.

The use of the "terror threat" color graph is deliberate - it shows just how 'low' the 'threat' of terror really is, which as you can see is a far cry from the fear mongering so many gullible have fallen for.

[P.J.]

Originally posted by Sanslines:
Nacky must be bored and (as usual) looks to stir the pot, annoy others, and start fights while contributing nothing of value to the topic at hand. Instead of engaging in his nonsense, he wins the grand prize and winds up on the BIG IGGY list. I suggest others also award him the grand prize and put him on their own private IGGY list. It's the only (and best) way that we can all silence and quarterdeck the mutha sucka.


Sure Nacktman has been known to stir the pot, annoy others, and even start fights, but that does not justify putting him on any sort of ignore list.

I have found myself and Nacktman to be on opposing views. As often as I might disagree with with Nacktman, I will admit (without making any consessions on any of the issues that we, in the past, might have wrestled with) that he is also intelligent and not afraid to take on controversial subjects.

So Nacktman, if you are reading this, until I totally win you over to my side of the middle of the road, think about the friendship between Rev.Jerry Falwell and publisher Larry Flynt and don't forget that you could be surprised to learn who your friends are!

[nacktman]

Originally posted by P.J.:
Sure Nacktman has been known to stir the pot, annoy others, and even start fights, but that does not justify putting him on any sort of ignore list.

I have found myself and Nacktman to be on opposing views. As often as I might disagree with with Nacktman, I will admit (without making any consessions on any of the issues that we, in the past, might have wrestled with) that he is also intelligent and not afraid to take on controversial subjects.

So Nacktman, if you are reading this, until I totally win you over to my side of the middle of the road, think about the friendship between Rev.Jerry Falwell and publisher Larry Flynt and don't forget that you could be surprised to learn who your friends are!

Why thank you P.J., but what about a wry sense of humor, too http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif.
Don't know about that side of the middle of the road, this side looks awfully good, how 'bout you come over here?!
And what do you mean 'stir the pot' 'annoy others' and 'start fights'?! ME!

[nudebushwalker]

Statistic - nobody has ever been killed while simply falling, have they?
It's the sudden stop at the end that does all the damage...
http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

That death by gunshot total sounds big enough to be a worldwide figure - for areas outside of warzones - doesn't it?
http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/confused.gif

Those fears that a lot of people have over terrorism, are similar to those irrational fears a lot also have against the great outdoors, wilderness areas and wild animals...
http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/bonk.gif

[Sanslines]

Sure Nacktman has been known to stir the pot, annoy others, and even start fights, but that does not justify putting him on any sort of ignore list.

What, in your book, constitutes a proper justification for putting such an individual on an ignore list? Does following an individual from topic to topic for the purpose of making abusive comments qualify in your book? Does anything in your book qualify someone to be put on an ignore list? I just do not know how you can defend such actions. However, why you associate yourself with a bully is your business and just because you have chosen to remain silent when he abuses others and come to his defense when others object to his abuse speaks volumes about you. I suppose that the only thing that matters to you is that he is civil to you and you just ignore what he does to others because it doesn't affect you directly. Just wait until you are on the receiving end and then you might have something different to say.

[Sanslines]

Those fears that a lot of people have over terrorism, are similar to those irrational fears a lot also have against the great outdoors, wilderness areas and wild animals...

The government has not been using the fear of the great outdoors, wilderness areas, and wild animals to justify war, create policies, and eliminate freedoms.

[nacktman]

Yep, it is that sudden stop at the bottom that does the damage, nudebushwalker ... there just isn't another 'one word' term that is better understood conceptually than 'falling' so that's what we use! http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

Which 'death by gunshot' are you referring to - the first one (which is over-inflated, even for world wide totals) or the others more in line with reality (heck they are reality). http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/rolleyes2.gif

Yes they are some irrational 'fears' out there and there are those of narrow minds that play to those fears to further their narrow mindedness. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/bonk.gif

This entire topic was just such a play to those fears originally, with no context or reference point to the post ... but we did not fall for that trap and have called the originator on it - all have - though I was the first to actually call a spade a spade here - and as par for the course the originator attacks and reviles those who stand up and say he is wrong and accusing others of his actions. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/smash.gif

Also, I believe he is upset he is being left out of the real discussion here and that no one is being gullible enough to pander to him. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/yes.gif

BTW ... the numbers above did not list the 3217 deaths when someone came and went at the same time - died during orgasm as it where. Funny how more people died from having an orgasm than from terrorist's activities in the USA, now isn't it!

[usmc1]

Originally posted by Sanslines:
Some Important Statistics to put things into perspective:

Between 2001 and 2006:

3,000 (nearly) Americans died from terrorism

30,000 died from food poisoning

240,000 died on our highways

500,000 died from guns

600,000 died from medical mistakes

What has been put into perspective? Other than proving, once again, that you are very careless and hasty with your assertions and do not think things through very well.

Anyone can rip and paste statistics, you've proven that. But, without sourcing and some sort of explanation and interpretation those statics, of which you are so proud, have little to no meaning.

If your point is that we are more likely to die of something other than a terrorist's action than of that action---no duh! And indicative of a marvelous grasp of the obvious.

You want some appalling statistics, take a look into the number of teen and preteen deaths of gun violence, accident and assault of one form or another.

If your point is that this administration uses terrorism to further its domestic and foreign-policy agendas - No duh! Again, a display of a marvelous grasp of the obvious.

You want Nacktman ignored? Cool, you set the example and let's see how many people follow it.

He's wrong about one thing, I don't necessarily see you as a troll. More of a garden variety yenta, actually.

[Sanslines]

Anyone can rip and paste statistics, you've proven that. But, without sourcing and some sort of explanation and interpretation those statics, of which you are so proud, have little to no meaning.

The original source of the statistics was Randall Larsen. Did you not read this from above? You claim of a lack of a source is invalid and indicates blindness on your part.

You also don't seem to understand that it can be up to YOU to state whatever you wish about those statistics and make your own conclusions. Certainly someone with your self promoted and broad understanding of everything can certainly understand that sometimes statements are made and then others are allowed to make whatever comments and conclusions that they wish about those statements before the real purpose of posting those statistics is revealed. Certainly someone with your self proclaimed open mindedness can understand that everyone has a different opinion and can see the same sets of statistics differently. However, as usual, you chose to throw stones at the messenger instead of attempting to understand another perspective. Such is the definition of absolute closed mindedness.


If your point is that this administration uses terrorism to further its domestic and foreign-policy agendas - No duh! Again, a display of a marvelous grasp of the obvious.

Since you are such a self proclaimed genius who understands everything in this universe, then why have any discussions about anything in this forum. Since you have all the answers and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong or stupid, then why should anyone waste your time with the obvious (and everything is obvious to you).


You want Nacktman ignored? Cool, you set the example and let's see how many people follow it.

He's wrong about one thing, I don't necessarily see you as a troll. More of a garden variety yenta, actually.

I certainly don't expect any other response from you. You falsely claim all of this compassion and then you come to a forum and defend the indefensible by promoting, supporting, and excusing bullying and abusive behavior. Such is the definition of hypocrisy and you are a prime example of that. Furthermore, you are incapable of remaining on topic and have this need to personalize and insult others in this forum just because they might dare to disagree with you and you clearly can not have your own way. Can't you see how ridiculous and cowardly it is for a so called grown man to come to a forum and hide behind a screen while engaging in infantile behavior? I know that you and your accomplice are old and bored men but certainly you both can find a better use of your time then to waste it by coming to a forum for the purpose of insulting others. It's the same old thing with you both. You both can't stand it and get very bored with a forum that is calm and at peace. You both have this fantastic need to provoke others to create fights and will keep up the pressure until you finally provoke someone into an angry discourse. Grow up and get a real life!

[P.J.]

Originally posted by Sanslines:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sure Nacktman has been known to stir the pot, annoy others, and even start fights, but that does not justify putting him on any sort of ignore list.

What, in your book, constitutes a proper justification for putting such an individual on an ignore list? Does following an individual from topic to topic for the purpose of making abusive comments qualify in your book? Does anything in your book qualify someone to be put on an ignore list? I just do not know how you can defend such actions. However, why you associate yourself with a bully is your business and just because you have chosen to remain silent when he abuses others and come to his defense when others object to his abuse speaks volumes about you. I suppose that the only thing that matters to you is that he is civil to you and you just ignore what he does to others because it doesn't affect you directly. Just wait until you are on the receiving end and then you might have something different to say. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Nobody is on my ignore list.
I admit that I have placed some people on my block list after they ignored my demands to stop sending unwanted material (mainly pornography).
I hate bullies. So far, nobody on the CFF falls under my definition of "bully."
When I was young, I had the misfortune of being bullied.
It seems that quite a few of my posts have generated some personal insults directed at me. I've been accused of being a lot of things (some of which were blown out of proportion and are quite ridiculous) and have been called names.
Maybe I'm a bit thick-skinned, but to update an old saying, "sticks and stones my break my bones but contrasting views will never hurt me."

[Pete Knight]

Something you should know about statistics!!


A massive 89% of all quoted statistics are made up,....... including this one!

Pete Knight

[usmc1]

Originally posted by Sanslines:
Yada, yada, yada, yammer, yammer, & one sniveling complaint after another

Yep, Yenta it is!

[Sanslines]

Nobody is on my ignore list.

Good for you. Too bad you can't see what your hero has done to others. I have no idea why you close your eyes to this and have attempted to use me as an excuse to suck up to Nacktman. It would be far better if you don't attempt to use others and stick to sucking up to him based upon your own merits.

[Sanslines]

Originally posted by usmc1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sanslines:
Yada, yada, yada, yammer, yammer, & one sniveling complaint after another

Yep, Yenta it is! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In one ear and out the other..........Let the old, tired, hard lined socialist/communist continue to promote his tired slogans in a forum where he can't do much harm to anyone.

[nacktman]

Now, now usmc1 I never said 'he' was a troll, I said the original topic was a trolling effort - I guess that does amount to the same thing though. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

Yenta is good although some of our Yiddish brethren may take exception to the insult to the other such schmucks out there.

It is amazing how a discussion of statistics that others wrested from the original trolling to form a legitimate discussion has become yet another in the litany of shrill personal attacks upon any who have the temerity to stand up for themselves by the originating "yenta". Then again it's not so amazing at that ... it's SOP.

What is fascinating is the fact that one's who one would presume to 'march in line' with the "yenta" are stepping up to say 'no, we don't, march in line with the "yenta"'. This has happened on other threads with those one would presume not to 'march in line' and in both cases it proves that the ability to think for oneself is what separates those that can handle differences and those that can not, and be willing to stand up and say so.
I wonder what are the statistics on that are?

[Pete Knight]

Where is the line between trolling and stimulating debate, I would guess that each individual would draw the line in a different place, so your allegation that this thread is trolling is YOUR personal view nacktman, and whilst you are entitled to your view I believe we are entitled to hear the views of others.

I personally don't see this thread as trolling!

Pete Knight

[usmc1]

Originally posted by Pete Knight:
Where is the line between trolling and stimulating debate, I would guess that each individual would draw the line in a different place, so your allegation that this thread is trolling is YOUR personal view nacktman, and whilst you are entitled to your view I believe we are entitled to hear the views of others.

I personally don't see this thread as trolling!

Pete Knight

Hence horse races.

[Sanslines]

Originally posted by Pete Knight:
Where is the line between trolling and stimulating debate, I would guess that each individual would draw the line in a different place, so your allegation that this thread is trolling is YOUR personal view nacktman, and whilst you are entitled to your view I believe we are entitled to hear the views of others.

I personally don't see this thread as trolling!

Pete Knight

Pete,

Just to review, this nonsese was started by Nacktman in another thread entitled "Another question for conservatives & republicans".

Nacktman would continue to make comments such as

"This from one who hasn't yet touched the topic?
Though their attempts at obfuscation here so far have been somewhat less than their usual vitriolic ooze.
However, the bile and vitriol sputum has another spigot to more than take up the slack."

He was ignored and no comments were made at this point either directly or indirectly towards him. He then carried his provocations to this topic and his first comment concerning this topic was

"Issuing a TROLL ALERT!

Deliberate misquotation and citation along with imaginary bona fide(s).

Do not fall into the trap!"

He is the one who is cleary trolling and then plays his usual game by and accuses others (who have ignored him) of trolling. It was obvious that his intentions were to destroy this topic and not allow any discussions to take place. It is also obvious that he was stalking me from thread to thread by continuing to make nasty personal comments that have nothing to do with the thread or topic at hand. His purpose is clear and that is to drive anyone from these forums who do not agree with him. His buddy, USMC , joins in with him and creates a classic wolfpack (exactly as was done by the Nazis in WWII). All of this nonsense has gone on for so long unmoderated and uncontrolled to the point that many contributors to this forum have left for presumable better things to do in their lives. It is really a shame and an embarrasement for this forum to continue to allow this out of control behavior to continue. This forum suffers greatly for it.

Pete, you also must understand that these two individuals are obviously old, bored men who seem to have nothing better to do in their lives then to come to a forum to insult, harrass, and abuse others. The 'problem' with this forum lately was that it was too quiet and civil and to such indivuduals such an environment can never be tolerated for long. They must find someone to attack and abuse for in some abnormal way of thinking, they take perverted pleasure in this kind of cruelty. Their history in these forums demonstrate just what kind of individuals they are and they certainly are NOT kind, compassionate, and caring individuals who are capable of engaging in civil conversation with those who offer differing viewpoints. Such qualities are the mark of a civilized human being but unfortunately do not exist in the two forementioned individuals.

The only way to deal with such indivuduals would require a huge investment of time in this forum and that is something that most men and women would not or could not do (perhaps due to the fact that much more important and competing interests in real life place a greater and more productive demand on their time).

[LamontCranston]

All of this nonsense has gone on for so long unmoderated and uncontrolled to the point that many contributors to this forum have left for presumable better things to do in their lives. It is really a shame and an embarrasement for this forum to continue to allow this out of control behavior to continue. This forum suffers greatly for it. This is the reason I stopped posting and even visiting. I've got better things to do than be an audience for two self-centered egoists.

These two guys are in every thread and *discussions* are quite rare. It's too bad. On several occasions I actually agree with what one or both say, but weeding through all the name-calling and put downs isn't worth it.

I don't expect anyone to change anything. I've just taken my time and attention elsewhere.

[nimrod]

Sanslines, you complain about Nacktman and usmc1, yet you participate in the same behaviors. Your last post is an assult on Nacktman, usmc, and any who might agree with their point of view. If you have a personal venteda against Nacktman and his so called followers, report his and any other post that you disagree with and let the moderators handle it any way that they see fit. The cliche is two wrongs do not make a right, you think how they post is wrong, do not post the same way. I know that I am on your list of the Nacktman devoted, and that I am now part of the wolf pack, (in your mind), but once again I am just pointing out that you are just as guilty of the attacking, name calling, and stalking that you accuse them of, until you stop calling the kettle black you have no room to complain.

[Sanslines]

Originally posted by nimrod:
Sanslines, you complain about Nacktman and usmc1, yet you participate in the same behaviors. Your last post is an assult on Nacktman, usmc, and any who might agree with their point of view. If you have a personal venteda against Nacktman and his so called followers, report his and any other post that you disagree with and let the moderators handle it any way that they see fit. The cliche is two wrongs do not make a right, you think how they post is wrong, do not post the same way. I know that I am on your list of the Nacktman devoted, and that I am now part of the wolf pack, (in your mind), but once again I am just pointing out that you are just as guilty of the attacking, name calling, and stalking that you accuse them of, until you stop calling the kettle black you have no room to complain.

Nimrod,

As my last posting made very clear I was not the one who initiated this nonsense. I am amazed why you sit back and remain silent when Nacktman et al abuses others and then when the abused speaks out and raises an objection, then you call that individual to task for fighting back. I think that you know very well that you are not being fair and objective and if this is what you chose to do then so be it. Let me ask you this(again!): Why is it that you have never spoken out against Nacktman when he abuses others? Why do you only speak out when others challenge his abuses and your comments are always directed at those who do the challenging? My last posting to Pete was an elaborate explanation which reviewed the recent history and yet you chose to consider this an attack and have consistently and conveniently ignored everything that Nacktman had said up to this point. Any rational and cognitive human being would clearly see the bias in your replies (as I am sure you must be aware of).

You know very well that Nacktman started this nonsense in another thread (as I pointed out above) and followed me into this topic for the sole reason of attacking me. His first comments "Troll Alert" had absolutely nothing to do with this topic and were a direct attack against me. It got to the point where it gets out of control and I did speak out. You know very well that you are consistently speaking out for Nacktman and this is all very interesting why you are supporting and encouraging his kind of behavior. My so called offensive comments were posting in my last posting and you have absolutely no justification to criticize them given that you have consistenly chosen to remain silent while Nacktman attacks others. I have asked you other questions in the past concerning why you never speak out when Nacktman abuses others and you have yet to answer those questions. Until you do, you have no justification to make comments against myself, or anyone else for that matter of fact, who will not sit idle by and be abused by a forum bully. As for your comment about some 'personal vendetta', there is no personal vendetta as I have ignored Nacktman and could have chosen to continue to do so throughout this thread. Obviously you would prefer that this be the case for any comments or objections to Nacktman seem to offend your sensibilities. As for the moderators, they are fully aware of Nacktman and yet (as usual) have chosen to do nothing. It is very clear that forum posters have basically three choices in a Nacktman dominated and controlled forum: 1) Post and do not reply to Nacktman regardless of his provocations. 2) Post and fight back and then witness your objections against them when they fight back. 3) Leave the forum.


You may not be aware of this but you are coming across as the type of person who only wants a Nacktman opinion dominated forum to exist. You consistently turn a blind eye to those who initiate abuse and insults and then blame the victim when the victim speaks out. Can you not see this? If you really want a forum that tolerates a wide range of opinions and discussions (such as we had in the not so old days when we had a much greater variety of posters before they left this forum) then you need to be fair and to speak out for this. If you want this forum to exist solely for Nacktman and USMC, then keep doing exactly what you are doing. In any event, based upon your past refusal to answer any of my questions as to why you consistenly remain silent while Nacktman abuses others, your expected continued silence and refusal to reply to this posting will demonstrate very clearly just what kind of forum you want and that you are in the Nacktman dominated wolfpack.

[nacktman]

Pete, if you do not see this thread as trolling, good that is how you see it, as you said it is a matter of opinion.

However, I do see the trolling effort (as have several others), and called attention to it and the trolling individual has per his standard operating procedure personally attacked not only myself, but nudebushwalker, usmc1, nimrod, P.J., BinCO and you, in varying degrees, in short all save Von (who he has ignored), who have posted on this thread ... to be joined by his fellow 'yenta' in the attacks.

It appears these two will not learn proper decorum and manners and are ill equipped to handle receiving the same treatment they dish out. A prime example of this behavior being passed beyond is one of the ones who prior to these two was just as bad an offender as they but learned to be civil and we have had some serious discussions as well as some silly ones ... right now we happen to be using the PM feature to discuss several things - one of which is the lack of the ability of these two 'yentas' to learn proper decorum and manners.

As P.J., pointed out I have many 'friends' on these forums (from all across the 'political spectrum' to boot), and do not 'dominate' anything - it is the ones who seek to dominate that are so upset they can not and focus on one or a few individuals to deride, ridicule, and be just plain contrary to no matter the post or topic (prior to myself it was a lady, who no matter what she posted, was attacked by the very same ones and their brethren who are attacking those of us still here, to the point she was cast out of the forums due to their outright lies and fabrications - older posters know who I am talking about - and no I did not always agree with her either - they are attempting the same tactics again but they are known for what they are and they are failing and that frustrates them all the more).

Hence the "Sky is Blue!", statement - it was an experiment to see who understood and would take it and run with it ... in improv performance it is called "Yes, And!", as expected some of the very ones those who wish to dominate didn't get it and took umbrage while those they accuse of 'dominating' took it and ran with it ... Yes, And!

So to statistics, which if the 'yenta' is to be believed, was the original topic. It would be safe to say that the statistic of their not being as they have been named is nearly 0%, while the statistic of their being just as they have been named is nearly 100%.

So, I guess all you wolfpackers out there howl! http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif
We've been upgraded - they used to call us sheep and every body knows it's better to be the carnivore than the herbivore. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/eusa_dance.gif

[usmc1]

My oh my. I've been so wrong. Maybe.

Nacktman keeps saying he--instead of she. I thought our culprit was a she, hence yenta. But, if he's a he, then "bomsh" might be more appropriate.

Don't you just hate it when that happens?

But, either way, I see no need to defend myself to her/him.

[nacktman]

Not to worry, I continue using 'he' because somewhere back in the stone age when I was in school that was what was taught as proper grammar when dealing with an unknown gender - to always use the masculine so 'yenta' or 'bomsh' works. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

[BinCo]

All right now, stop it. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/smash.gif

I have been away for a couple days and a fight broke out. The reply I made was to inquire as the source of the stats. As for the CDC being biased please read the lit about how the numbers are generated. They are the cause of death in the death certificate. I would not agree with the WHO, because many countries have a questionable tracking method.

Out for now. Please play nice.

[nacktman]

I would not agree with the WHO, because many countries have a questionable tracking method.

Yes, they do, and the United States is one of them.

Just relying on the stated reason on a death certificate is not very useful as they are easily manipulated for a myriad of reasons, it is a good starting point - really the best we have - but they can not be the end all ... to ease the pain of a family member whose loved one OD'd on whatever it is been known to happen that medical examiners would find any 'natural' cause to put down, granted it is not widespread but enough to skew the numbers. Just look at to number of deaths due to orgasm, almost all of those are listed as massive cardiac infarctions, i.e., a heart attack ... you could probably count the ones listed as death by orgasm on one hand.

[BinCo]

"death by orgasm on one hand" http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

I also think that these figures are skewed, but you are talking about tens of thousands of coroners across the country in a concerted effort. Not likely. So how far off are the numbers? 1-2% maybe?

"Just relying on the stated reason on a death certificate is not very useful "

Sorry, it's the best we have and I would like to think that many nations are on par with us, unfortunately the WHO has a distinct anti-gun agenda, so they are likely to skew the numbers

[nacktman]

BinCO I happen to agree with you that the reason stated on the death certificate is the best thing we have to go on and all 'statistics' are skewed by the way ... it is just who is doing the skewing and what they skew that wherein arises the problems.

[nimrod]

Sanslines, you have it your head that I have a bias towards you only because in being unbiassed I include you in my unbiassed statement. If I say that Sue, John, George, and Sally are using bad words, am I biassed only towards Sally? No. Your statements remind me of a school yard arguement. "Yeah, well he started it!", does not and never will be an answer to why you chose to do the same things.

I have sent Nacktman a PM in the past telling him what I thought about the wording of his posts at times, but what I said will be left there unless he choses to make it public. I did not bother to send one to you because I assume that I am already on your ignore list, and I think that you choose not to understand, just so that you can continue your vendetta in the open forums. I do not feel that this should be discussed in an open forum, yet here we are.

[P.J.]

Originally posted by Sanslines:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Nobody is on my ignore list.

Good for you. Too bad you can't see what your hero has done to others. I have no idea why you close your eyes to this and have attempted to use me as an excuse to suck up to Nacktman. It would be far better if you don't attempt to use others and stick to sucking up to him based upon your own merits. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


If you would read my posts, you might find out that some of my views are controversial, and aren't accepted by many of those who submit posts on the CFF.

You probably will not find any personal insults directed at anyone on the CFF.

Defending Nacktman does not mean that he is my hero. It also does not justify your allegation that I'm "sucking up to him." I do respect his right to express himself.

Has it occured to you that if it was you who was being criticized, whether or not justified, I might have been standing in your corner instead of Nacktman's?

Regardless of whether or not we agree, I think that I deserve to be extended some civility.

[nacktman]

Defending Nacktman does not mean he is my hero.
Why, P.J., I'm crushed. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/disappointed.gif http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

nimrod, et al, check out the "Civility" thread wherein I ask the question directly as to why the incivility ... it will be interesting to see the responses.

[Sanslines]

I do not feel that this should be discussed in an open forum, yet here we are.

Here we are indeed because you chose to call me out in the open forum instead of sending me a PM. Have you even tried to send a PM to me? How on earth can you even know if you are on a block list if you don't try??? You have no way of knowing whether or not you are on anyone's block list unless you try to send them a PM. You seem to be willing to extend Nacktman the courtesy of sending him PM's (because for some reason you feel that your comments concerning his 'wording' needs to remain in private) but you did not even attempt to extend this courtesy to me. You know very well that Nacktman's purpose in this topic was to provoke a fight (with his troll alert comments et al) and yet you chose call out and continue to blame the victim who fights back and you continue to ignore Nacktman's abuses in this open topic. This is not being unbiased. You obviously accept Nacktman's abuses but object to anyone who stands up against them and fights back. Being a pacifist is no answer to the bullies of this world. Can you really not see that you are so obviously biased? You obviously feel that Nacktman should have free reign and be able to say anything about anyone in this forum with impunity for you never call him out on his abuses in open forum. However, to avoid any arguments, those who are abused should remain silent and never object to anything. we all make choices in life. You are free to make your choices and others are free to make theirs.

You continue to incorrectly talk about my so called vendetta against Nacktman. You continue to ignore the fact that Nacktman came into this topic for the sole reason of attacking me, and I had remained silent up to a point. You continue to conveniently ignore the fact that Nacktman has the grudge and vendetta against a few individuals in this forum and his current vendetta is lodged against me.

Given time, he will no doubt find another forum poster to attack and abuse until that person quits this forum (for in the grand scheme of things in life, this forum is really unimportant).

[Sanslines]

Regardless of whether or not we agree, I think that I deserve to be extended some civility.

P.J.

You have been afforded civility all along. However, let's take a review of what you said:



Sure Nacktman has been known to stir the pot, annoy others, and even start fights, but that does not justify putting him on any sort of ignore list.

I have found myself and Nacktman to be on opposing views. As often as I might disagree with with Nacktman, I will admit (without making any consessions on any of the issues that we, in the past, might have wrestled with) that he is also intelligent and not afraid to take on controversial subjects.

So Nacktman, if you are reading this, until I totally win you over to my side of the middle of the road, think about the friendship between Rev.Jerry Falwell and publisher Larry Flynt and don't forget that you could be surprised to learn who your friends are

Have you mentioned any of Nacktman's abuses here? Have you mentioned anything about how Nacktman started to stalk me in another thread and carried his grudges over into this thread for the sole purpose of attack? Why is this? Why do you continue to ignore this aspect? You request civility and yet you don't ever seem to care how uncivil Nacktman is towards others. How do you construe your above statements and comments towards Nacktman? As some kind of criticism??? You obviously seem to think that it is just fine for Nacktman to do whatever and say whatever he pleases about others but when those others say anything about this, then you seem to have plenty to say.

In the end you chose to enter this heated exchange between Nacktman and myself. You could have chosen to extend civility to me by keeping this exchange either in PM or by not getting involved. Now you ask for civility? Where is your civility and courtesy towards me?

One final comment conerning this:

From your above comments:


Has it occured to you that if it was you who was being criticized, whether or not justified, I might have been standing in your corner instead of Nacktman's?

If you review this thread from the beginning, you will see that Nackman's original comments "troll alert" had nothing to do with the topic at hand. If you carefully reread, you may even see that his purpose was to destroy this topic and to abuse me. Why you have said anything about this is the million dollar mystery. Your original comments (as posted above) were directed solely at me and you were complaining about my comments about Nacktman being put on a personal ignore list. You need to ask youself why you have chosen to remain silent all along as Nackman seeks out and abuses poster after poster in this forum. You need to take a very careful look back in history and remind yourself of the days when posters from different backgrounds and opinions could post without abuse or attacks. You need to ask yourself where all of these people have gone for they certainly are no longer in this forum. You also need to ask yourself if this forum is a better forum for excluding and driving those individuals from this forum.

[Sanslines]

This is the reason I stopped posting and even visiting. I've got better things to do than be an audience for two self-centered egoists.

These two guys are in every thread and *discussions* are quite rare. It's too bad. On several occasions I actually agree with what one or both say, but weeding through all the name-calling and put downs isn't worth it.

I don't expect anyone to change anything. I've just taken my time and attention elsewhere.

Right on! No doubt that Nacktman will be free to abuse you for these comments and others will remain silent while he does so. Such individuals have always remained silent when you (and others) were ridiculed in the past. However, if you say anything to fight back, then you can be sure that such individuals will then have plenty to say - against you - and they will continue to remain silent against anything that Nacktman says against you.

[nacktman]

It is so refreshing to see the forums two remaining bucolic trolls patting each other on the back.

Now that everyone is calling them to the carpet they might get a clue and the hint and cease their trolling efforts though at the moment they are still attacking others and accusing others of their actions as per their modus operandi. Then we can have our forum back where the exchange of ideas can take place with civility as it has during the times when trolls such as these two have not been slithering around the forum.

We older posters remember Mountainman don't we, and we all remember Bobx23456. After Mountainman's departure the rest of that troll infestation withered away quickly and we had some real discussions for a time with only the odd troll rearing up once and a while; with a minor troll infestation a couple of years ago but most of that gaggle of trolls either left or learned to be civil.

Recently we've had Bobx23456 and the gaggle of trolls that surrounded him (even though he was a late comer troll, they clung to him like flies on cow-patties). Now with his departure should the pattern hold true we will see a rapid withering of the rolls and a return to civility and real discussion for a time. Of course prior to that withering we can expect some of the most vitriolic and bucolic sputum from the trolls as is their pattern when in their death throes - just look to Bobx's last few posts to see that fact in stark black and white.

Maybe we could compile the statistics for these infestations. It would be interesting to see the frequency and duration of each infestation and what can be done to more easily eradicate these infestations.

[MoonShadow]

I have been on vacation for the last few weeks and now catching up on the forum and then read this thread? Gracious!

I am rather surprise that you, Nacktman, started this "troll" bit and now continue to call a couple of posters, "bucolic trolls". Why are you doing this? From what I have read the thread is not trolling, the poster, sanslines, was not trolling and from his posts, I don't see him as a troll at all. What are you trying to do?

Listen to your attack on a couple of people: troll infestation, "they clung to him like flies on cow patties", "....most vitriolic and bucolic sputum from the trolls..." and "Maybe we could compile the statistics for these infestations. It would be interesting to see the frequency and duration of each infestation and what can be done to more easily eradicate these infestations"

This thread is not what I would have throught this forum was about. Guess I was wrong.

How sad to see such behavior. I am surprise no moderator has said anything. If this is what goes on here, I am gone!

An apology to the other posters here for my little blurb of disappointment, but I was surprised by this thread and the "trolling" comments.

[nacktman]

Moonshadow you may not be aware of what trolling is. This thread was originated as a trolling effort.

The original post gave a series of 'statistics' with absolutely no reference points. Those 'statistics' were designed to illicit a response to which the troller could then spew. Calling attention to the fact it was a trolling effort disrupted the troller's plans and when other posters including myself held forth a discussion on statistics we where attacked by the troller.

If you can not see this I feel sorry for you. Also in reference to civility I have been more than civil - more so than the trolls deserve - toward the trolls within these forums. It is a pity you can not see that like the majority of the posters here, but you are a new poster and do not remember all the trouble and viciousness caused by the trolls here and that I was one of the first to stand up and say NO, and have been joined by numerous others publicly and privately - including several moderators.

[Sanslines]

Moonshadow,

Thank you for your posting. The original poster (as Nacktman continues to refer to me as well as troll, yenta, and other assorted names) gave a series of statistics without a reference point. This is hardly a justification for someone to personally attack the original poster by calling him a 'troll, etc' unless that person came into this topic specifically spoiling for a fight with openly hostile provocations. When Binco asked for references in a civil manner, he was replied to in a civil manner with the ultimante source of the statistics. Nacktman could have chosen this same approach. Instead, he decided to attack the original poster (myself) with the nasty comments that you have supplied in your above posting. Initially, I did not even reply to Nacktman so his claims of my initially attacking him are completely false. Nacktman is certanly entitled to his on topic thoughs and opinions as are the rest of us. The problem arrises when he decides to launch personal attacks against those who do not agree with him. He just does not and will not admit that he came into this topic for the sole purpose of stalking and attacking me for his false and trumped up assumptions. He just does not seem to be willing to accept the fact that if he affords civility to others, then he will be replied to with civility. If he honestly believes that comments such as "they clung to him like flies on cow patties", "....most vitriolic and bucolic sputum from the trolls..." and "Maybe we could compile the statistics for these infestations. It would be interesting to see the frequency and duration of each infestation and what can be done to more easily eradicate these infestations" then there is absolutely no way to reach him to make him understand that such comments are not even remotely civil. There are only two options here. 1) Nacktman is playing some kind of game and is on a hunt and kill mission to pursue others for the sole purpose of instigating fights and controversy to appease his boredom.
2) Nacktman honestly does not understand the differences between civility and on topic discussion versus incivility, stalking someone from thread to thread, and personally attacking an individual for his pleasure to alleviate his boredom.

This nonsense has gone on and on. Perhaps Nacktman is retired and has all the time in the world to spend in this forum. Others, including myself, do not as we have other responsibilities in the real world and can not and will not spend infinite amounts of time in some pissing contest over a bunch of childish nonsense. For his sake, I do hope that he finds some real world activities to occupy his time other then spending his days in some forum promoting nonsense.

[usmc1]

Sanslines. Stop it! No! Naughty Naughty! Bad girl! No, no, no, no.

All this extraneous guff you stir up has nothing to do with the issue. How Nacktman spends and uses his time is his business not yours. How he expresses himself is up to him. If he were wholly offbase he would be moderated. You are not the arbiter of any of that.

You keep losing in the marketplace of ideas and blame that loss on others. Get over it.

Others here, most from a very neutral place, and in very civil ways have told you repeatedly that you are guilty of the very things you constantly complain of in others.

You have been rude, insulting, bombastic, sniveling, and extremely unappealing in your comments about him, and for that matter, me, in this and previous threads. But when you're called on it you post these interminable justifications for yourself, and calls for otehrs to ignore, or join you in ganging up, or for adminstrators to do something. Lordy, lordy lady get a grip!

And please, for goodness sakes alive, leave the personality profiling and psychological analysis of people you have never met and have no knowledge of out of your postings, they have no relevance, other than to give people a very uncharming picture of yourself.

You want to call me a communist and socialist and tired, bored old man among other things. Fine! But, you will be the recipient of some blow back when you do. Got it?

But, as I watched as poster after poster pointed things out to you in this thread and the thread concerning the bridge collapse, I learned that my thoughts about you were not wrong, and not driven by our different political viewpoints.

Now, just stop it! Take a deep breath and get yourself squared away. Nacktman and I are not your problem...you are your problem.

[MoonShadow]

I believe Sanslines is a male/man. Is calling him a "girl" meant to be derogatory? If so, that is one sexist statement to make.

This whole tread is outrageous now. Everyone needs to stop, take a deep breath, and drop this thread altogether.

[Sanslines]

All this extraneous guff you stir up has nothing to do with the issue. How Nacktman spends and uses his time is his business not yours.

Last I knew Nacktman was quite capable of speaking for himself and didn't need you to be his spokesperson. Calling me a 'girl' is indeed childish and sexist nonsense and the rest of your comments are not even worth replying to. Yada....yada.....yada...... Your documented past abuse, attacks, etc has led to the closure of threads and yet you continue to try to claim the high road. Nothing will ever change with you. As I said before, this is just pointless and childish nonsense and this man certainly has better things to do with his time. End of story.

[usmc1]

Originally posted by MoonShadow:
I believe Sanslines is a male/man. Is calling him a "girl" meant to be derogatory? If so, that is one sexist statement to make.

This whole tread is outrageous now. Everyone needs to stop, take a deep breath, and drop this thread altogether.

I regret the error. I've, and I don't know why, have always responded to Sansline in the feminine. Maybe his icon confused me at the outset of my membership. Yesterday, the topic came up and no one disabused me of the notion so I continued in that vein.

If you knew me better you would know that I'm not the sort of person who would engage in gender smears. Not at all.

But, thank you very much for the clarification and pointing out my unintended error to me.

As to other issue, no thank you. I think I shall continue in this thread as I best see fit or until it is deleted or closed.

[Sanslines]

As to other issue, no thank you. I think I shall continue in this thread as I best see fit or until it is deleted or closed.

We would not have it any other way. However, this is getting a bit tired and boring to say the least.

[nimrod]

Well, one assumption was right, you chose not to understand.

[Sanslines]

Originally posted by nimrod:
Well, one assumption was right, you chose not to understand.

Well Nimrod,

I gave you the benefit of doubt. I not only pointed out that you never even attempted to send me a PM in my posting above, but I also took the courtesy of sending to you a PM to invite you to discuss this matter in private and in a civil manner. You have not replied to my PM and continue to reply here. You said above " I do not feel that this should be discussed in an open forum, yet here we are." and yet you continue to do the exact opposite of what you state in spite of my efforts to accomodate you. Therefore, you demonstrate that you are not honestly interested in discussing anything in private and only wish to make your negative comments in the open forum concerning only myself. Your motives are very clear now. End of discussion.

[BinCo]

I would like to point out how Sanslines is correct about nacktman being the first instigator. Please review the post if you do not believe me.

Here is my other really big elephant in the corner. You can always NOT post or reply if you choose to.

Nimrod asked in his first post "what is the point of this?" nacktman seconds it and sanlines answered it. So why are either of you being involved in this post at all? If you think this is a waste of time, why do you keep poking at sanslines? He cited a source for the stats and I pointed him in a new direction. nacktman then came back and gave us a neat color chart, but did not quote his source either. Did you really think no one would notice this omission?

So, nacktman, please stand up and quit posting on this subject if it is a waste of your time and intelligence. I would be amazed if sanslines kept up the banter if he wasn't constantly berated by you.

[LamontCranston]

The original post gave a series of 'statistics' with absolutely no reference points. This from a guy who refuses to post links or references to any of his opinions. Even the chart in this very thread. Nackty always sez, "Do your own research."

"Troll" is the label Nackty pins on anyone who disagrees with him. He's a legend in his own mind. He even claims to top the charts with his own blog postings but alas... no evidence other than his own trumpet.

Like he says,
...absolutely no reference points.

[nacktman]

BinCo, I happen to have provided the reference for the chart I posted in the post I made prior to posting that chart, I guess that slipped by you, please refer back and make note of it.

Also, it was the initial post on this thread that was an effort at trolling and just because the one trolling doesn't like being called down for it doesn't change the fact. No matter what they may say to defend or justify themselves nor who they attack will change that.

[P.J.]

Originally posted by Sanslines:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Regardless of whether or not we agree, I think that I deserve to be extended some civility.

P.J.

You have been afforded civility all along. However, let's take a review of what you said:



Sure Nacktman has been known to stir the pot, annoy others, and even start fights, but that does not justify putting him on any sort of ignore list.

I have found myself and Nacktman to be on opposing views. As often as I might disagree with with Nacktman, I will admit (without making any consessions on any of the issues that we, in the past, might have wrestled with) that he is also intelligent and not afraid to take on controversial subjects.

So Nacktman, if you are reading this, until I totally win you over to my side of the middle of the road, think about the friendship between Rev.Jerry Falwell and publisher Larry Flynt and don't forget that you could be surprised to learn who your friends are

Have you mentioned any of Nacktman's abuses here? Have you mentioned anything about how Nacktman started to stalk me in another thread and carried his grudges over into this thread for the sole purpose of attack? Why is this? Why do you continue to ignore this aspect? You request civility and yet you don't ever seem to care how uncivil Nacktman is towards others. How do you construe your above statements and comments towards Nacktman? As some kind of criticism??? You obviously seem to think that it is just fine for Nacktman to do whatever and say whatever he pleases about others but when those others say anything about this, then you seem to have plenty to say.

In the end you chose to enter this heated exchange between Nacktman and myself. You could have chosen to extend civility to me by keeping this exchange either in PM or by not getting involved. Now you ask for civility? Where is your civility and courtesy towards me?

One final comment conerning this:

From your above comments:


Has it occured to you that if it was you who was being criticized, whether or not justified, I might have been standing in your corner instead of Nacktman's?

If you review this thread from the beginning, you will see that Nackman's original comments "troll alert" had nothing to do with the topic at hand. If you carefully reread, you may even see that his purpose was to destroy this topic and to abuse me. Why you have said anything about this is the million dollar mystery. Your original comments (as posted above) were directed solely at me and you were complaining about my comments about Nacktman being put on a personal ignore list. You need to ask youself why you have chosen to remain silent all along as Nackman seeks out and abuses poster after poster in this forum. You need to take a very careful look back in history and remind yourself of the days when posters from different backgrounds and opinions could post without abuse or attacks. You need to ask yourself where all of these people have gone for they certainly are no longer in this forum. You also need to ask yourself if this forum is a better forum for excluding and driving those individuals from this forum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



I have not been checking out the Clothes Free Foodfights, so I've missed a lot of the news.
Obviously, I stumbled into the crossfire, unaware that there is a war in progress.
If you ever venture down to Georgia, stop by Native Woods. If I'm there, I'll treat you to a soda.
Should Nacktman also accept my invitation, I'll put my safety at risk and keep you two at a safe distance from one another. This is for the benefit of any innocent bystanders.

[nacktman]

Actually P.J., I am down your way quite regularly. There is this little place down in the old cotton warehouses down by the river in Savanah I like to hang out in, maybe we could meet there for a soda.

But that safe distance thing might be a wee bit harder than you think ... being a Marine Corps sniper if I can see you, you're too close http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif. You know as we say "Don't bother running, you'll only die tired."

[OZJames]

nacktman -
being a Marine Corps sniper

Nacktman - re your avatar - is that a sword in your hand ?

which is it sniper or swordsman or perhaps flag waver ? Can we get any clues from the above posts ? http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sneaky.gif

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/beam.gif <span class="ev_code_RED">JAMES</span> http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/beam.gif

[nacktman]

Nacktman - re your avatar - is that a sword in your hand?

Nae, Oz, tis nae save me own wee tooth pick, me Campbell sticker, me Claymore. Th'fellow what took th'portraits that day insisted on me a'holding me wee knife like that. In short, yea tis a sword.

As tae th'flag wavin', leave us say I hav' been saluted many a'time by the lassies an' recieved more'an a few blue ribbons when tis been a breeze an' say nae more. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

[BinCo]

nacktman, please post a link where you got this data chart from the WHO. I dug into thier website and could not find anything close to what you have. They have a 3Mb excel file on deaths per member country, but the US stats are not this detailed or broken down the same way.

As one would guess by their name, World HEALTH Organization, most of the deaths are broken down by diseases. They have a few rows of injuries, but not many.

[walter05]

USMC1;

Your use of the word yenta is inaccurate. The complementary use of the word is for someone who is constantly attempting to help others. The derogatory use is for someone who is in others' business and perhaps trying to run their lives for them.

I don't see sanslines in either category.

For everyone else:

I am going to ignore the Sanslines, Nacktman, and USMC1 fights and hope you will also. If the rest of us ignore these fights, hopefully they will end.

As to the original statistics showing the relative low risk of death from terrorism, this is misleading. There have been several terrorist attempts thwarted. If they had been successful, the numbers would be higher.

I find there to be a problem with many of these types of statistics. Diabetes is a leading cause of cardiac failure. If a diabetic dies of a heart attack, which cause killed the diabetic? If both are counted, there is an over-count.

If a doctor driving on the highway shoots a patient by mistake, which is the real cause?

[walter05]

Nacktman;

PM me the next time you are going to be in Savannah. I would be happy to meet you.

[usmc1]

Originally posted by walter05:
USMC1;

Your use of the word yenta is inaccurate. The complementary use of the word is for someone who is constantly attempting to help others. The derogatory use is for someone who is in others' business and perhaps trying to run their lives for them.

I don't see sanslines in either category.

I do. So, hence come horse races. But, it's rather moot, since I had his gender confused. So, what's the yiddish term for a guy that behaves like a Yenta? Schmendrick?

One wants to be correct, now, doesn't one?

And Walter! Were you serious about ignoring something shouldn't you start off by ignoring it yourself? Coming into the thread and encouragin others to ignore is hardly ignoring, now, is it?

And, may I please remind you, and direct your attention to the fact that there are more than three people engaged in the dispute.

[nacktman]

Originally posted by walter05:
Nacktman;

PM me the next time you are going to be in Savannah. I would be happy to meet you.

Will do.

Also your point about cardiac infarction and diabetes is correct - something I tried to point out in other terms but seem to have fallen a wee bit short; then again as it is I making the point ... there are some -who same remain unnamed - that ignore or can not comprehend what is said and as such attack, revile, deride and other such drivel out of hand ... a tired tactic but one of their favorites nonetheless.

As to a 'fight' betwixt myself and anyone else on these forums - that perception is in error - if anything it is a sciomachy on the part other those others who seem to think they are 'fighting' me, or is that 'frightening' me?! http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/bonk.gif

[nimrod]

Sanslines, sorry but I did not recieve the PM that you had sent. For the record, I have been very careful not to use any negetive comments, I have only pointed out that you have participated in the same behaviour that you accuse Nacktman and others of.

[nimrod]

Originally posted by BinCo:
Nimrod asked in his first post "what is the point of this?" nacktman seconds it and sanlines answered it. So why are either of you being involved in this post at all? If you think this is a waste of time, why do you keep poking at sanslines?

I did not realize that posting the source of Sanslines information had answered my question. I guess that I was wrong, but I thought that posting the source of the info answered someone else. Will you please explain to me how it answers my questions, I am not seeing it. I still do not know if it was as a "fun fact", or if it had some other deeper meaning that I fail to grasp.

[MoonShadow]

Some people just can't let things go. This thread is dead for all intent and purpose. So why are people still carrying on? Haven't you said enough?

[walter05]

USMC1;

I was puzzled by the same question. How do I ask people to ignore the issue while bringing it up? My concern was that I was starting to think that too many people were involved. I was afraid that things were getting out of hand.

I got trapped into one of these myself. I am still sorry I did. I was hoping to save others from making that mistake.

The derogatory reference to a yenta is not a traditional one. It comes from Fiddler on the Roof.

There are a lot of derogatory names for a male. None of them on quite the same point however.

[usmc1]

Originally posted by walter05:
USMC1;

I was puzzled by the same question. How do I ask people to ignore the issue while bringing it up? My concern was that I was starting to think that too many people were involved. I was afraid that things were getting out of hand.

I got trapped into one of these myself. I am still sorry I did. I was hoping to save others from making that mistake.

The derogatory reference to a yenta is not a traditional one. It comes from Fiddler on the Roof.

There are a lot of derogatory names for a male. None of them on quite the same point however.

I think that if you research it a bit you'll find "Yenta" did not "come from" Fiddler on the Roof". It comes from the Yiddish, a language used by Ashkenazi Jews (Central European) since the 10th to 11th enturies.

You're correct that it does carry at least two connotations. The first is a description of a fussy, kindly older lady making nice for her family. The other connotation is a bit sharper; a meddlesome, gossipy, bossy woman into everyone else's business and more about trouble making than making nice.

I don't think anyone thought I was using it in the first context.

But, as to exhanges and the nature of those exchanges and the words used---I appreciate your efforts. We need people such as you in the forums to turn on the lights from time-to-time.

However, and I'm going to digress to make a point, the worse ***-kicking I ever took in my life was at the Normandy Club in Oceanside when a "peace-maker" grabbed my arm but no one grabbed the three tankers coming at me, so, I'm mistrustful of peacemakers. So, I feel that in a metaphoric way you're grabbing me with your appeals.

A scrap is a scrap, and those who can't handle it really ought not get in the middle.

Really, those who think my point of view or way of expressing it are outrageous have a right to that opinion and certainly have a right to call me on it. And, I have a right to respond to taht criticism as I best see fit, without someone writing a script for me.

And I think I have the same right to call people on what I see as their B.S.. And, they certainly have the right to defend theselves as the best can--and again without onlookers "grabbing their arms".

And, I don't see it as helpful for people who have no real interest in those exchanges to sit on the sidelines with appeals to make nice with each other. It is futile and frankly, to me, annoying.