Ash Wednesday Prayer

[NuTex]

ALMIGHTY and everlasting God, who hatest nothing that thou hast made, and dost forgive the sins of all those who are penitent; Create and make in us new and contrite hearts, that we, worthily lamenting our sins and acknowledging our wretchedness, may obtain of thee, the God of all mercy, perfect remission and forgiveness; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

-1928 Book of Common Prayer

[NuTex]

ALMIGHTY and everlasting God, who hatest nothing that thou hast made, and dost forgive the sins of all those who are penitent; Create and make in us new and contrite hearts, that we, worthily lamenting our sins and acknowledging our wretchedness, may obtain of thee, the God of all mercy, perfect remission and forgiveness; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

-1928 Book of Common Prayer

[David77]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NuTex:
"acknowledging our wretchedness"
-1928 Book of Common Prayer <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not me! I am not wretched, thank you.
We Unitarians and Naturalistic Humanists believe that it would be better to acknowledge your good humanness, and potential for even greater goodness after correcting one's errors.

[NuTex]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We Unitarians and Naturalistic Humanists believe that it would be better to acknowledge your good humanness, and potential for even greater goodness after correcting one's errors. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>David,
I?m glad you posted this. Some Christians would agree with you. I recall a fellow Christian telling me once he didn?t like the hymn Amazing Grace because of the part that sings about ?a wretch like me?.

My view is that while I believe humans are essentially good (something I understand is a break with traditional Christian thought) we still will sin (i.e. fail to show love). This awareness of sin can be a powerful and overwhelming emotion for many. In my view if this emotion is handled properly it results not out of fear of damnation (I?m a Christian Universalist and I believe we all will see eternal life) but out of remorse for our failure to show love.

For most Christians Ash Wednesday is the beginning of Lent, which is a time of self-examination and working towards a positive change of one's own behavior. This is done with the same goal of achieving the ?potential for even greater goodness after correcting one's errors? that you mentioned. Sometimes feelings of guilt and contrition can play a constructive role in personal growth. But we Christians must also be careful to emphasize the worth of each person with the positive message of potential growth that our faith declares and not center only on guilt over our personal faults.
NuTex

[Rex]

I suppose the best way to describe myself, in a religious sense, is "unorthodox free-thinker".
I do have a belief in a "power for good", and my life experiences have given me ample evidence that our life on earth is not the end of our conscious existence.
I don't think we do "God" a favour, by putting ourselves down, in a derogatory fashion, and I am one who does not like Amazing Grace, for that reason.

[NuTex]

You have some good points. I believe Institutional Christianity has at times over killed on the guilt. I do think we Christians could, and should, be emphasising the positive more than we have in the past.

I think we Christians have something to learn from "free thinkers" like you Rex. And I appreciate your replies to this in that it helps me personally grow as well.

Thanks,
NuTex

[Trailscout]

Christians should not spend much time feeling guilty. Our sins are forgiven by God through Jesus' substitutionary death and our character is being progressively transformed through the course of our lifetime (santification).

We do not believe forgiveness is forced on those who do not want it. It is offered to all and many who appear to reject forgiveness now might at some future time come to receive it.

Feeling guilty is not always a good indicator of our state of guilt before God. I still find that "guilty feeling" useful from time to time, but I need an objective source for examining my own heart. I find that personal reflection coupled with prayer and Bible study gives me a much more objective picture. Sometimes friends, imperfect though they are, have the distance necessary for objectivity and I benefit from their advice.

The song "Amazing Grace" has to be understood in context. The guy who wrote it used to be the murderous captain of a slave ship. His guilt over his role in the slave trade was entirely appropriate and he was a "wretch" until God redeemed him.

It would be inappropriate for one to presume that God cannot make a saint out of a wretch. He does it all the time.

[LeeR49]

The hymn Amazing Grace has been cited in this thread a few times. Another favorite of mine, and one that is very approriate for the Lenten season, was penned by Charles Wesley, brother of John, the founder of Methodism:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And can it be that I should gain
An interest in the Savior's blood?
Died He for me, who caused Him pain?
For me, who Him to death pursued?
Amazing love! How can it be
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Both of these hymns point to the stark contrast and irony of the Christian faith: We are caught up in the wretchedness of our sin, yet God is caught up in the wonder of His love and grace. And though my sin is great, His love is greater still, and He has paid the price for my sin.

Lee

[NuTex]

Trailscout,
You're right that we shouldn't spend too much time on guilt. We need to keep our focus on the redemption of the Cross.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> We do not believe forgiveness is forced on those who do not want it. It is offered to all and many who appear to reject forgiveness now might at some future time come to receive it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't want to misunderstand you here. I think you're saying that you hold the widespread view of the existence of eternal suffering. If so then I have to differ.

Forgive me if I misunderstood you.

And with all due respect may I ask you to not say "we" when refering to Christian doctrine. For example I try (though at times fail) to say qualifiers such as "My view" or "I". There are many Christians who truly try to follow God's teachings but still disagree on some key doctrine.

A good online resource on Christian Universalism is:
Articles Concerning Christian Universalism (http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/univart.html)

God bless,
NuTex

[David77]

And I, as well as other Unitarians, believe that we do not benefit from miraculous "redemption of the Cross". Nothing absolves us of our responsibility of our redeeming ourselves, if indeed we happen to need some sort of redeeming or atonement.

[Rex]

Although I do not go along with every point made, I have got a lot out of reading this thread, and I would like to thank every contributor.

[nudewheelchairTodd]

God bless u all, this is the best post yet

[NuTex]

I also want to say thank you to each and every person that has contributed to this post. This has been a blessing to me as well as I prepare for next week.

God bless,
NuTex