Topless/Nude in Fast Food Places?

[MikeJB]

Okay, with all the talk about the breastfeeding thing at Burger King and my own experience at a McDonalds *im a guy* I just thought id ask about this, what is the rule about being topless or just generally underdressed in fast food places? Im not talking about fancy restaurants here, im talking about the place your average joe goes for a burger, legally wise or just in general, can they just kick you out for say like not wearing a shirt just because they dont like it or do they have to have some sort of written policy or one of those "No Shirt/Shorts, No Service" signs up? I used to see those signs alot myself and the McDonalds I went to used to have one I think but they got rid of it and thats the only fast food joint ive gotten in trouble for going to with just shorts on, the lady said something like "bring a shirt next time, this is a restaurant" and im like oookay, because no one ever complained there before and ive gone to like 2 or 3 other fast food places in my area and nobody gives a rip about it and in fact some guys have gone shirtless into that McDonalds before and no one said anything to them so im just wondering what the rule is about that sorta thing and weither they can like throw you out or call the cops on you or just generally deny you service just because they dont like what youre wearing even if it is legal in your area to do so, especially without a written policy? Ive never really asked anyone about that and I dont know where to go so I figured id mosey on down here and ask you guys about it.

[MikeJB]

Okay, with all the talk about the breastfeeding thing at Burger King and my own experience at a McDonalds *im a guy* I just thought id ask about this, what is the rule about being topless or just generally underdressed in fast food places? Im not talking about fancy restaurants here, im talking about the place your average joe goes for a burger, legally wise or just in general, can they just kick you out for say like not wearing a shirt just because they dont like it or do they have to have some sort of written policy or one of those "No Shirt/Shorts, No Service" signs up? I used to see those signs alot myself and the McDonalds I went to used to have one I think but they got rid of it and thats the only fast food joint ive gotten in trouble for going to with just shorts on, the lady said something like "bring a shirt next time, this is a restaurant" and im like oookay, because no one ever complained there before and ive gone to like 2 or 3 other fast food places in my area and nobody gives a rip about it and in fact some guys have gone shirtless into that McDonalds before and no one said anything to them so im just wondering what the rule is about that sorta thing and weither they can like throw you out or call the cops on you or just generally deny you service just because they dont like what youre wearing even if it is legal in your area to do so, especially without a written policy? Ive never really asked anyone about that and I dont know where to go so I figured id mosey on down here and ask you guys about it.

[Artie]

I think McD is hurting so much for money right now they wouldn't toss anyone out for dress code violations. I have heard their stock is going down the tubes. As for the whole no shirt/shoes no service thing I think is still goes for most fast food joints. Oddly, those signs never say anything about not wearing pants.
I remember a resturant near Purdue had a sign whic read, "we would love to see you naked, but shirt and shoes required." As far as shoes go, it is a healthcode for most stated in the US. As for shirts, it is just the resturants choice.

Artie

[Macanudist]

The "No Shirt/No Service" policy (for men anyway) is generally just that - a restaurant dress code. They are certainly within their rights to refuse you service or ask you to leave. Depending on the local culture they may or may not opt to do that, like if the restaurant is next to the beach. As for the barefoot issue just mentioned - it too can be a legitimate part of their dress code but most restaurants like McDonald's hide behind a FICTICIOUS health department code. The fact of the matter is that those codes are for employees, not patrons.

[TXK NUDE]

Well, we know in Arkansas you can get arrested for indecency if you wear a thong to Taco Bell!

It is correct that health codes only apply to employees...not customers. Hence the HUGE signs in the john reminding employees to wash their hands before returning to the kitchen. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I know that location does have a lot to do with the "dress code" of a restaurant. And beach/resort locales are usually more lax in their shirt/shoe requirements. Other places in downtown Podunk Holler can be a bit more restrictive...even forbidding short shorts, like Daisy Dukes.

[nudeM]

TXK NUDE: I think you're right about the relaxed dress code along the beaches. They may require shirts and shoes (with shorts), but the clothing is more skimpy. I remember going down to San Diego several years ago, and we were walking along the boardwalk, and the clothing was far more revealing than the clothing worn downtown. Of course, there was a heat wave at the time, so the less clothing, the better off you were. That was before I even thought about wanting to be a nudist.

[hw]

Stu...got answers? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So we've established most businesses require shirts and shoes. Beach areas are more relaxed in what they will allow.
Here is a question I would like some serious discussion on:

A woman who has had a double radical mastectomy. She has had reconstructive surgery only to the point where scars are minimal; skin grafts. There is no breast tissue so to speak. No nipples, or fat has been restored to her chest.

Legally can a woman like this go to places where men can go topless and expect the same treatment? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Could she go to a beach or public pool where men are allowed to be bare chested and not be arrested? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
Has anyone heard of this being challenged in the courts? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Aaron Adams]

Rules against women going topless in public seem to me to be based on the principle than women shouldn't be topless in public. The appearance of a particular woman's breasts seems to be irrelevant to how the law is applied. It seems to me to be especially important that women who have suffered the effects of breast cancer be allowed to go topless in public given that the point of greater acceptance of nudity/toplessness in public is greater acceptance of other people. Society is fairly willing to accept the "beautiful" people but society must also accept people it considers imperfect.

[MikeJB]

Okay, thanks, I was just basically wondering about the whole shirt thing. Shoes I can understand being required as its a saftey issue and the restaurant can get in big trouble if someone cuts their foot in their store, although really it should be the person's fault for doing so as they shouldve known better to wear shoes. As for the health code thing, I think people that work at a fast food place have actually tried to use the health code to ban someone from not wearing a shirt, but those codes are for employees. I just dont get why they have the whole No Shirt/Shoes policy anyways, doesnt it go against men's rights to go topless in that area? It just seems unfair to me that even if a man can legally go topless in an area that he should have to put a shirt on just go get a burger. These rules are double standard anyways because they dont include the pants!!! So I guess someone could come in without their pants on and if its not against the law in that area then the fast food place cant do anything about it ebcause they didnt mention it in their rule. My big question is, isnt this rule at these places against people's rights to go topfree in public, since this seems to be a public place? Also what harm would come from someone coming in topless to get a burger? Id understand if the person was rude or mean, but what right do they have to kick someone out merely for being topless and if they are being polite and not harming anyone. Dont you think itd hurt their business if they deny a customer service because they dont have a shirt on, because the customer may not have a shirt with them and wouldnt wanna waste time to go get one, instead theyd just go to another restaurant, which in my case I could do easily by going someplace else where they dont mind, but generally dont you think that unless the person is causing some trouble that itd be better to just let them get their burger and leave happy?

[Stevedaoust]

I've worked in the restaurant business for yrs and I can say it's because of the health dept. Primarily for men, but woman are involved also for other reasons. Guys, mostly, have to have a shirt on because of armpit and chest hair (i suppose this could apply to some woman also. let's not get into facial hair debate; I'm the messenger). Noone wants to find one of those in the food. Shoes because of insurance reasons---slipping, things crashing down on the foot, glass, etc.
That's why most uniforms are SLEEVED.
Baseball caps or hairnets are supposed to be woren by the staff but that's rare, for the same reason.
I went into one restaurant that refused service because of a tank-top but that soon changed.

Steve

[NakedGary]

So when a fast food place posts a notice "No shoes, No shirt, No Service and doesn't mention pants, its assumed that everyone has pants or a dress on when entering.

What Stevedaoust said in his post is understandable. Pubic hairs could become dislodged and be a problem.

Are hair nets still a requirement in most food places for employees ?

[Rex]

In the Perth WA city and suburban areas and throughout the rest of WA, so many men, women and children go around with bare feet and go pretty well anywhere they want, that it can't be seen as a problem here.
We have the same situation with public liability insurance, but in that respect, evidently people are still expected to use their own common sense and I hope it stays that way.
Certainly, particularly in city and suburban areas, many food and drink places do have dress codes for customers and these seem generally reasonable to me.
I live in a beachside suburb of a small city 35 minutes fast drive south of capital city Perth CBD, the climate is "Mediterranean" and we have a city council enlightened enough to have an official free beach. Around here, plenty of people go into at least the smaller fast food places in bare feet, with men shirtless and sometimes with low-slung shorts and some women with bare midriffs and delightfully low slung shorts or jeans.
More important than making a fuss over a bit of bare flesh, all the food places are smoke-free under WA state legislation and hopefully the staff were trained as small children to wash their hands without being told.

[MikeJB]

Yeah I just wonder what people would do about the stupid individuals who dont understand common sense and actually do go into a fast food place with all their clothing, except pants? I mean i think these places oughta be clear if they are gonna have rules, then at least they can state that the rules were clear and that the person is at fault, but if the rules areint clear then the person could say that "well you never said anything about wearing shorts" and no matter how you try to explain it, you cant get around the fact that your rules werent complete. I just basically think you should ahve rules in plain writing somewher eon your property in full view of the public or not have these rules at all, having the rules in the head of the manager or on some paper in the back room of the restuarant where no one can see it doesnt help the customer and they cant be expected to know the rules beyond any common sense and lots of people go into these places shirtless and sometimes with less on than that and have no reason not to because there is no rule stating otherwise.

[MikeJB]

I like the way your community is Rex and honestly thats the way it should be. I mean having shoes on is a good idea but if youre at the beach or someplace like that then you may or may not have any on and as long as the estabilishment keeps the plave tidy then you dont have to worry about hurting your feet and if you do, its your fault for not wearing shoes so the only person who should get in trouble is you. Although I do strongly beleive that these people should keep the floors clean and without extra debris to cut your foot on but they cant be perfect 100% of the time.

[Bob S.]

"My big question is, isnt this rule at these places against people's rights to go topfree in public, since this seems to be a public place?"

No MikeJB, fast food establishments are private businesses and thus can create any dress code they want. Shoes are required more than likely to prevent against lawsuits. Shirts are just an arbitrary rule for "decorum." I believe that pants/shorts are not shown as they do not want to keep women from wearing dresses or skirts. Also, they assume most people will have some bottoms on anyway and they do not want the signs to be too large.

Going back to your original question, yes they can kick you out or deny you service for not adhering to their dress code. They cannot call the cops unless you violating the local indecency laws or if you are being belligerent.

Bob S.

[MikeJB]

Well my big question seems to be.....Can these people kick you out if they dont have any dress code in place? I mean like if they dont have any signs, paperwork, etc? If they just kick you out by saying its against their rules or they just dont like what youre wearing, even if it isnt any against any existing rules there or even if any dont exist? I havent seen these signs at these places in a long time and yet places like McDonalds still denies people to be topless? Is this right or should they need some sort of dress code before they can just go around bossing people around just because they feel like it? I mean if you treat a McDonalds as a private property like you would someone's house then basically they could get away with almost anything and it would basically be their say so because its their place, I mean I always thought they treated these places differently.

[MikeJB]

another question I have is that some of these places ive seen people go in topless BUT when I do they complain or at least the rules say its not allowed but yet they allow one person to do it but deny another one? Would this be something that would be within their right or could this be something you could complain about because it doesnt seem very fair, either you dont let anyone in without a shirt on or you let everyone in without one on. I am also wondering because some places allow girls in small bikini tops to come into their place but guys have to wear shirts or at least tank tops and I just dont see how this would be fair and itd seem like you could fight them in this case.

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MikeJB:
Well my big question seems to be.....Can these people kick you out if they dont have any dress code in place? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes. A private business has a right to refuse service and to require any person to leave their premises as they please. The only exceptions are when doing so violates anti-discrimination laws. So far nudism and topfreedom (except for nursing mothers) are not included in anti-discrimination statutes.

-Mark

[WNYjoe]

There is an implied health code restriction in food establishments. My understanding is that even if they do not specifically post something like "No shoes, No shirt, No service," that at least many states and/or municipalities still have something to that effect on the books.
And that means that men and women get treated equally. Topfreedom or anything else being irrelevant. Possibly the only place where you might find an exception this this is any place real close to a beach or boardwalk.
On an interesting side note, the thing I find fascinating is how it has been legal to be topfree in NY for 10 years, and most people don't know it, including law enforcement officers.

Joe

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WNYjoe:
the thing I find fascinating is how it has been legal to be topfree in NY for 10 years, and most people don't know it, including law enforcement officers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL, true. Even stranger to me is that many Ohioans know that it is legal to be topfree in New York, but don't know that it is legal in Ohio.

-Mark

[Kari P]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WNYjoe:
There is an implied health code restriction in food establishments. My understanding is that even if they do not specifically post something like "No shoes, No shirt, No service," that at least many states and/or municipalities still have something to that effect on the books.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I know nothing about your laws, but logically any such health code could apply only to personnel, not customers. Say any valid reason, health based or other, why customers of a restaurant or a grocery shop should wear shirts and shoes, not counting liability for injuries of people who don't look at where they step.

Kari P

[Outlaw]

I think I know another reason for requiring tops and shoes at eating establishments. Are you aware that when you detect an odor, you are actully inhaling particles from whatever you sense. Wearing coverings may prevent release of these particles and therefore prevent the spread of germs.

May be true--maybe not.

Big Mac

[MikeJB]

I think I know another reason for requiring tops and shoes at eating establishments. Are you aware that when you detect an odor, you are actully inhaling particles from whatever you sense. Wearing coverings may prevent release of these particles and therefore prevent the spread of germs.

May be true--maybe not.

Big Mac
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This seems a little bit excessive to me. I mean if this was true about the chest area then people would have to cover the rest of their bodies too and most people dont. I think this just has to do with the modesty in restuarants fact and the idea that no one has nudity/topfreedom on the anti discriminatory laws, otherwise weither these places liked it or not, youd have to serve topless customers. Also I think companies that are really in the hole *like McDonalds* cant afford to turn away customers over trivial issues such as this. I mean how could they know that I might not just deter anyone else from coming there because of their biased attitude? I mean youd think these people would wanna keep a positive attitude and serve you even if they dont necesarily like what youre doing. I mean its one thing to scare off someone who is causing a disturbance but its another to scare them off because you dont like THEIR way they dress. I mean its kind of funny, why make signs and write rules down if all these people gotta do is say they dont want topless men/women in their place. To me it seems like that if they could get away with this then they could get away with almost anything as long as it doesnt fall under the anti discrim laws, its basically the addage "its my place, so I can do whatever I want". I just think people oughta treat fast food places differently than if it was someone's house. So I mean they oughta either make a precise rule in their books or just allow people to wear whatever they please in the establishment because it seems a bit rude to just get kicked out just because the manager doesnt like you. I mean who would wanna go to a place like that? What ever happened to the "customer is always right" addage? Is it now the "manager can do/say whatever he/she fits in their place and you just have to shutup or leave addage?"

[MikeJB]

Also I would like to add.....isnt the manager by making a comment, which usually they dont bother to do it quietly, areint they causing a bigger scene by even bringing up something so trivial at a fast food place? Wouldnt it be just better to let the person order their food, get it and go and then they dont have to deal with them anymore? Unless they are regular visitors to the place, most people just come in, buy food and go and you never see them again, so I mean whats the big deal? I mean unless they are explicitly harassing the customers or causing a scene, i think they oughta just shut up, give me my order and let me go along my way.

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Mac:
Wearing coverings may prevent release of these particles and therefore prevent the spread of germs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not a chance!

The human body is far cleaner than any cloth garment could possibly be. Cloth is absorbent, it collects dust, dirt, filth, bacteria, virus particles, liquids etc. Bits of all that filth are constantly released with the slightest movement, jar, jiggle or brush.

Unless you change into fresh clean clothes every 30 minutes or so, your clothes are constantly accumulating, and spreading, every contagion you encounter. Fortunately the human epidermis is able to fend off almost all that filth.

From a strictly hygienic viewpoint, every restaurant should require everyone to strip off at the door, take a quick shower, and dine nude.

-Mark

[MikeJB]

From a strictly hygienic viewpoint, every restaurant should require everyone to strip off at the door, take a quick shower, and dine nude.

------------------------------------------------

Yeah why cant we say that we want you to be nude in a restaurant because its cleaner for our restaurant and our customers and we dont want you coming in with your dirty clothes on. The whole thing about the body being dirty and somehow not having a shirt on would cause germs is probably the message from the same people who think you should wash your hands every time you touch a surface of something *table, doorknob* I mean if you did that, youd never get anything done. I think it would be cool if we could get everyone to be nude by having the restaurant require it and say its for hygenic reasons, then maybe theyd consider it since so many people are so damned worried about being squeaky clean.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Naturist Mark:

From a strictly hygienic viewpoint, every restaurant should require everyone to strip off at the door, take a quick shower, and dine nude.

-Mark [/QB] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hey, now! That sounds like a great idea! I'm all for it!

[NakedGary]

The logistics sound terrible, what are you going to do carry your soiled clothes back into the restaruant to eat nude. The locker room would be bigger than the restaurants.

Just start out nude, and carry a towel.

[Rex]

I've never been to Cap d'Agde on the French Mediterranean coast, but don't people do everything there nude, if they choose to, including dining?
Maybe someone could enlighten us all on that.
I can't imagine there would be a shower outside every eating place, though.
I used to be a member of a Perth nudist club, Sunseekers, which has beautiful, spacious grounds and very good facilities.
You can often get snacks or meals there, the customers are usually nude, but those serving used to be nude many years ago, but now wear various items of clothing. I understand that is to comply with WA state health legislation.
I have been to Bali many times and have eaten in both hotel and independent restaurants wearing nothing but a little sarong slung low below my waist and my wife was the same except for a little bikini top. These places were usually immediate beach-front. We never had a problem.
At some of the more laid-back places, including one of the very well-known "fashionable" restaurants, many tourist women would lie around on wooden lounges, right in front of the restaurant, wearing nothing but G-strings and just sling a sarong around themselves if they wanted to go in.

[Gary Naturist]

I have dined nude in the main restaurant during a short visit to Cypress Cove (sitting on a towel, of course). It was breakfast time and a bit of a chilly day, so all of the other diners were dressed.

I found it a bit surreal, walking nude the whole length of the restaurant, following the clothed hostess, past the clothed patrons, to my seat. Of course, nobody paid any attention to my nudity.

After being seated, I became quite comfortable. The only thing that I wasn't sure about was whether to put the napkin on my lap. I mean, what did it matter if I were to drop something onto my lap? Well, I guess that whatever it was could have been hot.

I'm a bit of a sloppy eater, so dining nude works out well for me. I highly recommend it to others.

Now, if we can just get McDonald's to see the light.

Gary

It is quite usual for the diners at CC to be clothed. Some people say they keep in cold in there intentionally so that people will stay dressed.

I did the same thing you did last time I was there. I was sitting with a friend and we two were the only nude ones in the place. Being the only nude in a room just doesn't make me uncomfortable. I did it in the nightclub at Paradise all the time too.

The Cove can be so weird sometimes!

[Stevedaoust]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MikeJB:
[QB] From a strictly hygienic viewpoint, every restaurant should require everyone to strip off at the door, take a quick shower, and
dine nude.


As ideal as dining nude would be; I would be first in line. Then you get into someone that should have visited a Doctor for a penisilun(?) shot because they found something extra when they potty-break or someone that should be using that BLUE LOTION the next morning, or someone that doesn't wipe as well as they should.
Ok,ok maybe this is spinning out of control but face it, humans are dirty animals (or at least what is really on/in their bodies) and I wouldn't want to be the one that shares their health problems.

[MikeJB]

Yeah well if you came in with a towel and sat on the towel while you ate and made sure not to make a big mess then eating nude wouldnt be no big deal.

[NakedGary]

Well MikeJB, eating nude anywhere or at CO resorts is not a problem if you have been to many, and a naked or nude person eating is likely to be much more aware, and make much less of a mess than textiles or suffer the consequences on thier body, not clothes.

[MikeJB]

Yeah I mean at least if you spill something on you you can wash it off easier than if it was on clothing and its cheaper too because you dont have to pay anything extra than the utilities bills you already have to pay *electric, gas, etc* Although you gotta pay for soap but still its cheaper than cleaning clothing and buying new clothing if the food somehow ruined the fabric. I think its nuts when people get all dressed up for dinner, spill drinks or food on their clothing and then get all uptight about it and I just feel like "well youre the one who was stupid enough to dress formally to dinner" Eating is one of those things you can do sucessfully nude.

[tarsus]

just toss in two cents-well let me have a nickel /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif with the mad cow case in the news.
i think they will want business so bad they are gonna stop careing.
breast feeding in public has long be my cause,as some know.a woman has the right to nurse free of harrasment,by anyone,at any time this is my cause.
many places post this no shoes-no shirt,but really all they want is our money.so if they say anything just go to those who do not.the color green--well, and pastel now is why they exsit.