opinions on genital piercing? [Archive]

Chocolate

06-22-2003, 11:12 AM

See, I just don't get it...actually, I get a little irritated when I hear about somone being upset. But suppose I shouldn't be. My thoughts that nudist would generally be "open-minded" people. That as long as somone wasn't rudely staring somoen down or playing with themselves, something like a genital piercing would be NO BIG DEAL.

Just like naturism/nudism, it's NOT always for the sexual stimulation. For many, body piercings are a way of life. The experience they have when they get a piercing is very personal and can be a great bonding experience with others. it holds mnay different meanings and significance for each individual person.

I'm thinking the people who flip are the ones who are un-accostomed to the whole piercing thing, probably older people if you ask me. They think it's odd and weird and must obviously mean this person is kinky and way too much of a sexual person to be able to be a true naturist/nudist and is there just to throw sexuality into the mix. NOOOOT! It's a piercing...get over it. What they have it for is their own business. So to those PRUDES, my advice...stop staring at their piercings and allow them to enjoy the naturist/nudist experience like you! :-)

flash

06-23-2003, 02:49 AM

i couldnt have said it any better myself

RIVERRAT

06-23-2003, 08:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Raised_by_She-Wolf:

[b]
Not that I've ever had my uvula pierced. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
But, I told my mom that now I'm 18, I would like to get my lip pierced. She's not too happy with that proposal, but she figures that she should let me go and do whatever, and learn my lesson the hard way.

I know I'm stringing up my own noose when I'm saying this, but why do people, when they legally become adults, try to prove their adulthood by doing really childish things (i.e. piercings, tattoos, porn, etc.)? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good for you girl friend, you have it all together.

06-24-2003, 08:27 AM

ref; genital piercings and tats. I have 4 genital piercings....did them for me and no one else. If I am excluded from some place because of them...that is their problem not mine... thought this whole area was for getting comfortable and hanging out, pun not intended, with like minded folk, and if I am excluded...guess we really not like minded are we. Piercings are only a small part of who I am.

flash

06-24-2003, 08:52 AM

amen mj !! i feel the same i have 2 piercings down there i dont feel i should have to take them out and so far i havent.. later shane

Trailscout

06-24-2003, 02:32 PM

If you don't go to resorts, no one will tell you what to do about piercings.

Most nudists find genital piercings contrary to the spirit of non-sexual public nudity. If that somebody is a resort owner, you don't get to go inside his resort.

I know that some people don't mean to send the message that they are sexual perverts by the fact that they want to show off their pierced genitalia in a family nudist camp, but it's kinda like a man with a swastika tattoo on his forehead demanding admission to a synagogue and being angry that people take offense at his tattoo.

06-25-2003, 02:15 PM

I was not going to reply to trailscout...but here I go....

Trailscout....who gave you permission to speak for most nudists....looks as if there is only one of ......

Next....what qualifies you to judge a sexual perversion....are you a PhD psychologist or a MD trained in Pshyciatry.....I bet not!!!! I bet if you were to check the latest edition of the DSM,(Oh, you don't know what that is, why am I not suprised!!) you would not find genital piercing there along with necrophilia or pedophilia....or a host of other problems.

As Dave stated you are allowed your own opinion...but please do not confuse your opinion with fact....

Naturist Mark

06-25-2003, 03:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mj:

Trailscout....who gave you permission to speak for most nudists....looks as if there is only one of ......
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let's be fair, Trailscout didn't claim to be speaking for anyone.

Most of what he wrote was clearly identified as opinion. He did make one broad statement:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Most nudists find genital piercings contrary to the spirit of non-sexual public nudity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which can only be construed as representing his impression of the opinions of those nudists he is familiar with.

I'd have to say I think he is right on. Most of the practising real world (as opposed to online) nudists I've met feel that way too. Many are also very tolerant of it (to each his own, etc.) but I've heard what is said.
-Mark

Trailscout

06-25-2003, 04:25 PM

Okay, let's all have "KICK ME" tattooed to our hind quarters in big bold letters and prance around a nudist resort and then let's get all huffy and indignant when people respond to the message.

Naturist Mark

06-25-2003, 05:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dave M.:
Your missing the point which is --having a genital not does make a- bad person <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh yeah? Most bad people *have* genitals.

So there!

Just slightly seriously, I think Trailscout accurately expresses what many nudists, particularly long time AANR/TNS type nudists think about Genital Jewelry.

Accurate doesn't mean fair.

But when people adopt body mods previously associated with BDSM and Swinging it can't be surprising that they tend to try to connect the dots ...

-Mark

Bob S.

06-25-2003, 07:58 PM

mj and Dave M, I believe it was George Carlin who said, "Calm down. Have some dip." (you'd have to really appreciate it in context.).

And also, just for comment and extremely off-topic, you know the APA is considering removing all paraphilias from the DSM?

And to back up with what Mark said, Trailscout did not say anywhere in his post that he is an expert on anything nor did he suppose to speak for anybody but himself. Emotional outbursts do not make a good point except for in the sentencing phases of trials. Reason is usually lost in the translation.

And Trailscout does make a point that I will expand upon. When one gets a piercing, tattoo, shaves, he is doing so for a specific reason that he knows. But that does not mean that others cannot use their own judgement and, upon seeing said alteration, form their own bias in their own mind. Can't they have separate thoughts as your own?

"INTORERANCE BREEDS TYRANY-just a thought "

I love that quote by you, Dave. You are just as intolerant of those who find genital piercings offensive as they are of those who have genital piercings. And can intolerance also breed anarchy?

Bob S.

RIVERRAT

06-26-2003, 08:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
It is because people, even nudists, have been mislead about it. It is deemed a sexual oriented activity and the traditional nudists have fits. It is changing though....

as time goes by these things are relaxed and the newer clubs usually don't object to them.

Once it was not acceptable to hold hands at a nudist club, and alcohol was not allowed either. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>you would be the first to critisize curcomsition

RIVERRAT

06-26-2003, 08:48 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Raised_by_She-Wolf:

I have one question...
<h2>
WHY???????
<h5>
I mean, maybe it wouldn't be so bad for a guy to get a genital piercing, but a girl????????? We have to sit on those things, for Godsakes!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A complete waste of money, buy a braclet for your python, jewelry is a waste of money when just worn, why stick it through something, really out there.

RIVERRAT

06-26-2003, 08:54 PM

RIVERRAT

06-26-2003, 08:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dave M.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
If you don't go to resorts, no one will tell you what to do about piercings.

Most nudists find genital piercings contrary to the spirit of non-sexual public nudity. If that somebody is a resort owner, you don't get to go inside his resort.

I know that some people don't mean to send the message that they are sexual perverts by the fact that they want to show off their pierced genitalia in a family nudist camp, but it's kinda like a man with a swastika tattoo on his forehead demanding admission to a synagogue and being angry that people take offense at his tattoo. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><font color="red"
While you are are entitled to find genital piercing repundiant and replusive that is your your opinion and I respect it! I'm dismayed that you see anyone with a genital piercicing as a sexual prevert or exhitionist or a wack-job.I'm none of the above!! Nor are the people I know who are "pierced" I find we are normal resonsible people. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If you look I'm sure you will find the same!!!!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ---Normal resonsible people who just happen to have a genital piercing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>BULLS--T

RIVERRAT

06-27-2003, 08:15 PM

chocoate, I really dissagre, all piercing does is draw attention to the piercing, hence look at my genitals they're pierced arn't they beautiful, look at this gourguios half caret stud where could I show it off better than my breasts or my clitoris, only at a nudist park or resort, I say it's trashing the nudist lifestye.

GO AWAY

07-26-2003, 06:15 PM

DAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

skyclad85

07-26-2003, 06:39 PM

Genital piercing is, IMO, a personal choice. I don't really care if a nudist has a piercing (or two or more) or none at all.

My personal choice is - thanks, but no thanks. First it looks like it really hurts to have done, and I am a wussie when it comes to pain. Yes, I admit it! If the doctor tells me that an injection is going to hurt I tell him, no it's not, cause first you gotta catch me and I can run pretty FAST!! LOL

Second, it just looks weird and very unattractive to me.

I also think that nudism is about living your life in a natural state of existence, and I think piercings are contrary to that idea. The only things I have pierced are my ear lobes (one hole per) simply because I can not take the pain of clip-on earrings. My view may be a bit on the extreme side, but I think it's OK as long as I don't try to impose it on others.

So, like I said, I think it comes down to personal choice, and I wouldn't restrict someone with piercings from a resort.

GO AWAY

07-26-2003, 07:36 PM

lol..DOY DAHHHHHHH W/E DUURRRRR

GO AWAY

07-26-2003, 07:37 PM

lol...this is funny...LOVE MY PIERCINGS...HAHAHAAA

07-26-2003, 07:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
If you don't go to resorts, no one will tell you what to do about piercings.

Most nudists find genital piercings contrary to the spirit of non-sexual public nudity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Tell me what study or poll you got that statement from.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
If that somebody is a resort owner, you don't get to go inside his resort.

I know that some people don't mean to send the message that they are sexual perverts by the fact that they want to show off their pierced genitalia <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Please explain how a piercing sends a message that they are being a pervert. I have yet to hear a piercing speak. What you need to do is stop posting your obviously biased opinions as if they are facts. It makes you look like a total idiot.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>in a family nudist camp, but it's kinda like a man with a swastika tattoo on his forehead demanding admission to a synagogue and being angry that people take offense at his tattoo. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Terrible comparison.... they have nothing in common at all. Can you post without attempting to piss off as many people as you can? Can you post without making untrue and tragicly exaggerated statements that are demeaning to people?

Try.... try real hard.

greyhair

07-26-2003, 08:57 PM

While you are are entitled to find genital piercing repundiant and replusive that is your your opinion and I respect it! I'm dismayed that you see anyone with a genital piercicing as a sexual prevert or exhitionist or a wack-job.I'm none of the above!! Nor are the people I know who are "pierced" I find we are normal resonsible people. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If you look I'm sure you will find the same!!!!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ---Normal resonsible people who just happen to have a genital piercing. [/qb][/QUOTE]BULLS--T [/QB][/QUOTE]

So 'rat, are you saying that the poster is a pervert because he wears a piercing? Do you have knowledge that he is a pervert, or are you basing your claim simply on the fact that he wears a piercing? If a pervert removes his ring, does that make him a non-pervert?

BTW, if you come to Lilly Valley, or any other Canadian club, you will find that many people wear piercings, including my wife.

Oh, and here is something else to consider...
there is a word for people who spend their time staring at other people's genitalia. It's called a gawker.

greyhair

07-26-2003, 09:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
If you don't go to resorts, no one will tell you what to do about piercings.

Most nudists find genital piercings contrary to the spirit of non-sexual public nudity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Tell me what study or poll you got that statement from. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>He won't because he can't.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
If that somebody is a resort owner, you don't get to go inside his resort.

I know that some people don't mean to send the message that they are sexual perverts by the fact that they want to show off their pierced genitalia <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Please explain how a piercing sends a message that they are being a pervert. I have yet to hear a piercing speak. What you need to do is stop posting your obviously biased opinions as if they are facts. It makes you look like a total idiot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I would like to see Trailscout come up to my wife or the 30%+- of the membership of Lilly Valley and tell them that they are perverts.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>in a family nudist camp, but it's kinda like a man with a swastika tattoo on his forehead demanding admission to a synagogue and being angry that people take offense at his tattoo. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Terrible comparison.... they have nothing in common at all. Can you post without attempting to piss off as many people as you can? Can you post without making untrue and tragicly exaggerated statements that are demeaning to people?

Try.... try real hard. [/QUOTE]

He can't. He seems locked into his own tunnelvisioned view of the world. Thankfully, I don't see this sort of attitude in my country.

greyhair

07-26-2003, 09:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mj:

Trailscout....who gave you permission to speak for most nudists....looks as if there is only one of ......
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let's be fair, Trailscout didn't claim to be speaking for anyone.

Most of what he wrote was clearly identified as opinion. He did make one broad statement:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Most nudists find genital piercings contrary to the spirit of non-sexual public nudity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which can only be construed as representing his impression of the opinions of those nudists he is familiar with.

I'd have to say I think he is right on. Most of the practising real world (as opposed to online) nudists I've met feel that way too. Many are also very tolerant of it (to each his own, etc.) but I've heard what is said.
-Mark <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe in a backwards country, but I haven't seen that sort of attitude in my own country.
Most of the real world nudists that I know could care less what someone does wrt piercings or tattoos. But then, why would a "real family nudist" be spending his time looking at someone else's genitalia? If you don't like the piercings, stop gawking at them.

GO AWAY

07-26-2003, 09:14 PM

Well Said Greyhair...

IF YA DON'T LIKE IT DON'T LOOK...

LOOK AWAY HAVE A GREAT DAY...IT'S NOT YOUR BODY ANYWAY...

HAHAHAHAAHA

greyhair

07-26-2003, 10:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
Well Said Greyhair...

IF YA DON'T LIKE IT DON'T LOOK...

LOOK AWAY HAVE A GREAT DAY...IT'S NOT YOUR BODY ANYWAY...

HAHAHAHAAHA <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Here's a club(fictional) that the "piercings are perversion" crowd would love:

True Family Naturist Park

Established to provide a safe and non-threatening environment for true nudists, True Family Naturist Park will open with the following safeguards to ensure a pure nudist environment:

Members and guests must keep their area of vision above the shoulders. Anyone looking below the shoulders for more than .5 seconds will be removed from the park property. The .5 second rule will enforced by staff members equipped with stop watches. There will be a one to one ratio of staff to members and guests. Staff will accompany members and guests throughout their stay.
To ensure no impure thoughts or bodily changes, all members and guests will be equipped with sensing devices to measure increased blood flow to genitalia. These sensors will be monitored through telemetry by our staff. All members and guests will be equipped with EEG style sensors to detect impure thoughts. These will also be telemetrically monitored by office staff.

According to guidelines established by PRUDE, the national association of true nudists People Regulating Universally Decent Environments, anyone wearing Piercings of any sort will be removed. Our Security staff are empowered to search between the labia for piercings. This is for the ladies protection.

Since staff will not be able to monitor members and guests for compliance when members go to their rooms or tents, all members and guests will report to our onsite clinic for DNA testing each morning and evening to ensure that no swinging or swapping of partners has occured in their rooms or tents. Anyone caught with the wrong DNA in or on their persons will be removed from the park.

We, at Satori Naturist Park, have worked hard to eliminate anything that may have sexual connations. There will be no swings or teeter totters in the children's area. Swings and swinging have sexual connations. Teeter totters with their up and down motion have a sexual link.

Please have your children's DNA samples ready for comparison with your own. In order to prevent any celebration of infidelity or swinging, all children' DNA must match their legal parents. Children with unmatched DNA will be removed and held for pick up by Child Protection Service personnel and the parents will be stoned for indecency.

Music will be strictly regulated. No playing of Jimmy or Tommy Dorsey music or any other music of the Big Band/Swing era will be permitted. No playing of any Brian Setzer music will be permitted.

Dances: At the True Family Naturist Park, dances are an important part of the social atmosphere. In order that we preserve the family nature of the park, the dances will be monitored by staff. Staff monitors will carry rulers to measure the gap between dancing partners. This gap must be a minimum of 10 inches to prevent accidental contact. Holding your partner in a face to face, body to body position is prohibited. Please maintain a position of left hip opposite your partner's right hip.
Dance music will be limited to non-stimulating music. Pat Boone is as wild as we permit.

We hope you will enjoy the freedom that comes with being a pure and true nudist.

Your Hosts at True Family Naturist Park,
Ward and June Cleaver

Trailscout

07-27-2003, 09:55 AM

Greyhair,

I think you insult the people of Canada by assuming that they share your support of swinging (also known as marital infidelity) and by assuming that they are so naive as to infer no sexual meaning to the sadistic practice of inserting pieces of metal into one's genitals.

I prefer to assume that Canadian nudists generally are good wholesome family people, faithful to their marriage vows and I am sure that most see no need to wear sexual adornments in public, but keep that side of their lives private.

Your fictitious nudist resort was an amusing fable, but that's all. Many nudist resorts are doing a fine job keeping inappropriate jewelry out without intruding into the private moments of their guests' lives. After all, the gruesome jewelry is on display for all to see. No need to spy on the guest to find it.

greyhair

07-27-2003, 10:24 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Greyhair,

I think you insult the people of Canada by assuming that they share your support of swinging (also known as marital infidelity) and by assuming that they are so naive as to infer no sexual meaning to the sadistic practice of inserting pieces of metal into one's genitals.

I prefer to assume that Canadian nudists generally are good wholesome family people, faithful to their marriage vows and I am sure that most see no need to wear sexual adornments in public, but keep that side of their lives private.

Your fictitious nudist resort was an amusing fable, but that's all. Many nudist resorts are doing a fine job keeping inappropriate jewelry out without intruding into the private moments of their guests' lives. After all, the gruesome jewelry is on display for all to see. No need to spy on the guest to find it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry to bring reality into your world, but there are swingers in most of the clubs in Canada. They go about their business discreetly and quietly and cause no harm to the clubs or the members.
BTW, I take offense at your statement that I support swinging. I neither support it nor condemn it. I don't have the monstrous ego to assume that I have a right to decide what activity is right or wrong for other adults to engage in.

Our club management, as with most in Canada, says that he is not there to play "moral cop" and so long as people confine their sexual activities to their own quarters, it is no one's business what goes on in private.

As for the jewelry, I know of no clubs in Canada that forbid the wearing of piercings. At our local club, around 30% of the membership have piercings and/or tattoos. Interestingly enough, the most active swingers in the club do not have either piercings nor tattoos. My wife, who does have nipple rings, finds it laughable although sad that someone who has never met her can believe that they have the ability to discern her moral character simply by how she chooses to adorn her body.

I have seen you post that wearing piercings is morally wrong. I would recommend that before you start throwing words like "Moral" around, that you take some time to learn a bit of moral philosophy. I recommend that you pick up a copy of Moral Matters by Professor Jan Narveson of University of Waterloo.

Excerpted "What, then, does one mean by saying that some act is morally wrong? We have distinguished three components.

1. One disapproves of the doing it oneself.
2. One thinks that everybody else should also dissaprove and refrain from it - in short, that there ought to be a( if there isn't already) a social rule against it.
3. One thinks that there is a good reason why(2) should be the case - a good reason, then, from the point of view of everybody, not just oneself."

3 is obviously the sticking point, since to make something immoral, one would have to justify their case by proving everyone else that the "action" is harmful to others or society in general.

07-27-2003, 11:05 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Greyhair,

I think you insult the people of Canada by assuming that they share your support of swinging (also known as marital infidelity) and by assuming that they are so naive as to infer no sexual meaning to the sadistic practice of inserting pieces of metal into one's genitals. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think you insult swingers by assuming they can't be competent parents. You have no knowledge of what a competent marriage is about nor do you personally know enough swingers to judge them and it is totally obvious that you don't konw enough about piercings. It is totally socially acceptable to pierce ears in this society and nobody calls them masochistic (the right term, not sadistic) for having that done. You seem so confused... perhaps you should stick to topics you know about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
I prefer to assume that Canadian nudists generally are good wholesome family people, faithful to their marriage vows and I am sure that most see no need to wear sexual adornments in public, but keep that side of their lives private.

Your fictitious nudist resort was an amusing fable, but that's all. Many nudist resorts are doing a fine job keeping inappropriate jewelry out without intruding into the private moments of their guests' lives. After all, the gruesome jewelry is on display for all to see. No need to spy on the guest to find it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Definition time....

troll-
An electronic mail message, Usenet posting or other
(electronic) communication which is intentionally incorrect,
but not overtly controversial (compare flame bait), or the
act of sending such a message. Trolling aims to elicit an
emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply
key. A really subtle troll makes some people lose their
minds.

flame-
An insulting criticism or remark meant to incite anger, as on a computer network.
To rant, to speak or write incessantly and/or
rabidly on some relatively uninteresting subject or with a
patently ridiculous attitude or with hostility towards a
particular person or group of people. "Flame" is used as a
verb ("Don't flame me for this, but..."), a flame is a single
flaming message, and "flamage" /flay'm*j/ the content.

Dave M.

07-27-2003, 11:14 AM

I see Trailscout is still posting FALSE, DEFAMATORY, INACCURATE, ABUSIVE, VULAR ,HATEFUL ,HARRASSING , AND SEXULLY ORIENTEDcomments here. /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif HOW SHAMEFULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif If Trailscout is going to make these kind of post he should GO!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif After reading his post on these boards makes me wonder has he found an easy legal way to spread his HATE AND BIGOTRY?? /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

greyhair

07-27-2003, 11:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dave M.:
I see Trailscout is still posting FALSE, DEFAMATORY, INACCURATE, ABUSIVE, VULAR ,HATEFUL ,HARRASSING , AND SEXULLY ORIENTEDcomments here. /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif HOW SHAMEFULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif If Trailscout is going to make these kind of post he should GO!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif After reading his post on these boards makes me wonder has he found an easy legal way to spread his HATE AND BIGOTRY?? /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Note that he "prefers to assume" In other words, he really has no interest in what is really happening in the world, but would rather dwell in a fantasy world right out of 50's era family sitcoms. I am quite happy that I have never run into anyone like Trailscout in a Canadian nudist club or on a beach in Canada. Please tell me that his type is a rare bird in the U.S.A.

Dave M.

07-27-2003, 11:50 AM

A /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif rare bird but all to common /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Trailscout

07-27-2003, 12:03 PM

Greyhair,

If you have insider information on swinging at all Canadian resorts, they they must not be that discreet. It is presumptuous to assume that it does no harm. Their prescence slanders the reputation of family nudism, their behavior risks the spread of social diseases, disturbs the fabric of families and is an abomination in the sight of God.

Moral neutrality is impossible in the face of this sexualization of nudity. You have made yourself the friend of home wreckers and have slandered the name of nudism by your acquiescence and ambivalence.

I have to laugh at your trendy refusal to adopt moral values of even the most basic sort. Even a little enlightened pragmatism would lead an astute resort owner to keep the freaks from coming in to a good family resort.

If your assertion is true, I pity your club manager's decision to ignore blatant immorality by claiming that as long as he doesn't "see" it it didn't happen. It is absurd that you try to extrapolate the behavior at your swinger/sex club to that of all Canadian nudism.

While I deplore all piercings and tattoos as anti-nudist in effect if not sentiment, the particular concern of this thread is sexual jewelry. Your survey sounds contrived, but even if true, it simply proves that you frequent a sex club that claims to be nudist and that the patronage seems to be evenly divided between exhibitionist sadists and people who have abandoned all respect for love, chastity, marital fidelity and moral decency and apparently your resort manager finds it profitable to claim that this den of iniquity is a nudist venue.

Some character traits are hidden and some we wear on our sleeves or in some cases nipples. I have no problem condemning disfiguring ornaments, particularly those that are on the genitals, but to a lesser extent the nipples because of they are not randomly placed, but are deliberately positioned to send a sexual invitation to all who see it.

Other non-genital piercings are generally ill-advised for health reasons and may indicate a lack of respect for the nude human body. I have no criticism of ear rings in women, but I feel sorry for women who feel that they need them in order to be beautiful.

greyhair

07-27-2003, 12:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Greyhair,

If you have insider information on swinging at all Canadian resorts, they they must not be that discreet. It is presumptuous to assume that it does no harm. Their prescence slanders the reputation of family nudism, their behavior risks the spread of social diseases, disturbs the fabric of families and is an abomination in the sight of God. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually they are discreet. I know of many people who do swing, but not at the clubs. How do I know them? I communicate(talk) to them and them to me. Because I am neutral on the subject, they feel free to open up. A skill known as active listening.

Please provide proof that swinging spreads social diseases and "disturbs the fabric of the family".
I must admit that the sheets on the bed would be disturbed by two couples swinging, but they are also disturbed by a "wholesome christian" couple when they engage in sex. So I fail to see your complaint. And who is God? I fail to see what a fictional deity has to do with the actions of consenting adults.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Moral neutrality is impossible in the face of this sexualization of nudity. You have made yourself the friend of home wreckers and have slandered the name of nudism by your acquiescence and ambivalence. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How are they home wreckers? Several of the swingers that I know have long time stable marriages. One couple recently celebrated their 25th anniversary with a renewal of their vows in a lovely backyard ceremony. The party was made up of textiles and nudists. As for slandering nudism, I would rather tell the truth, than lie about reality.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> I have to laugh at your trendy refusal to adopt moral values of even the most basic sort. Even a little enlightened pragmatism would lead an astute resort owner to keep the freaks from coming in to a good family resort. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What moral values am I lacking? I do no harm to my neighbours. Why would an owner turn away paying members who cause no harm?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> If your assertion is true, I pity your club manager's decision to ignore blatant immorality by claiming that as long as he doesn't "see" it it didn't happen. It is absurd that you try to extrapolate the behavior at your swinger/sex club to that of all Canadian nudism.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds like you are lashing out at reality. Sorry but the management is quite right in not interfering with mature consenting adults.
BTW, our club has many families and is not a sex club. I am sorry that you lack the maturity to engage in debate on this subject.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> While I deplore all piercings and tattoos as anti-nudist in effect if not sentiment, the particular concern of this thread is sexual jewelry. Your survey sounds contrived, but even if true, it simply proves that you frequent a sex club that claims to be nudist and that the patronage seems to be evenly divided between exhibitionist sadists and people who have abandoned all respect for love, chastity, marital fidelity and moral decency and apparently your resort manager finds it profitable to claim that this den of iniquity is a nudist venue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The survey is based on the number of people that wear piercings and that are members of the club.
Your baseless claim that the club is a sex club is nonsense and reveals your self-righteous bombast that is based on intolerance and xenophobia. Amazing how you can discern a lack of love and decency without meeting the individuals.
Playing "Ghod" are you?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Some character traits are hidden and some we wear on our sleeves or in some cases nipples. I have no problem condemning disfiguring ornaments, particularly those that are on the genitals, but to a lesser extent the nipples because of they are not randomly placed, but are deliberately positioned to send a sexual invitation to all who see it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Have you asked my wife if her intent is to send a sexual invitation?
Why do you wish to slander people you have not met?
I am quite glad that I have never met anyone so intolerant, boorish and lacking of morality as you in Canada. Lacking in morality, you ask? You are acting immorally when you cast aspersions on people based on their appearance and body decor. Seeing the worst in them without getting to know them. Methinks I have run across a hypocrite.

Since you claim to be a christian, may I direct your attention to your saviour's statements on judging others?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Other non-genital piercings are generally ill-advised for health reasons and may indicate a lack of respect for the nude human body. I have no criticism of ear rings in women, but I feel sorry for women who feel that they need them in order to be beautiful. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Properly cleaned and using good hygiene piercings cause little health risk. Perhaps you are basing your reasoning on your own standard of personal hygiene, in which case, a piercing may cause you risks.

You do seem to enjoy making erroneous assumptions. That pierced women *need* piercings to feel beautiful. That is not the case. Perhaps you should abstain from assuming things and gain knowledge before making statements. This will enable you to speak from a factual basis rather than coming across as an ill-informed opinionated no-nothing.

greyhair

07-27-2003, 12:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dave M.:
A /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif rare bird but all to common /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is it something in the water or the upbringing?
Hmmm, nature or nurture? /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

07-27-2003, 02:52 PM

Hey Greyhair how obvious can it be why this guy is single? LOL!

Trailscout says
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>You have made yourself the friend of home wreckers and have slandered the name of nudism by your acquiescence and ambivalence. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It seems to me that the swingers are the honest ones, not going out behind the spouse's back and having sex. I was just at a remarriage of some swinger friends...ten years and going strong, they raised 9 kids together (all born before these two met). Because sex is discussed and fantasies fulfilled there is no cheating and life is never boring. All the children are mentally healthy and now making their way out into the world. I don't understand how a child can be traumatized by their parent's sexlife anyway... it isn't like they share that with the kids.

greyhair

07-27-2003, 04:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
Hey Greyhair how obvious can it be why this guy is single? LOL! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Trailscout says
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>You have made yourself the friend of home wreckers and have slandered the name of nudism by your acquiescence and ambivalence. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It seems to me that the swingers are the honest ones, not going out behind the spouse's back and having sex. I was just at a remarriage of some swinger friends...ten years and going strong, they raised 9 kids together (all born before these two met). Because sex is discussed and fantasies fulfilled there is no cheating and life is never boring. All the children are mentally healthy and now making their way out into the world. I don't understand how a child can be traumatized by their parent's sexlife anyway... it isn't like they share that with the kids. [/QUOTE]

All the swinging couples that I know have long time marriages(most over 15 years)and are quite happy. Their children are uninvolved, as they should be...and thus no traumatic experience for the kids.

When it comes to worrying about attacks on nudism from the religious Reich, people like Mark Foley and Pat Robertson are minor worries compared to the Reich members within the lifestyle.

Bob S.

07-27-2003, 07:06 PM

greyhair, way to go! It's an interesting debate that pits facts vs. opinion.

cyndiann, children can be traumatized in relation to their parents' sex life. Have you ever thoght about your parents having sex? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif It's just too traumatic to think of. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bob S.

07-27-2003, 07:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
greyhair, way to go! It's an interesting debate that pits facts vs. opinion.

cyndiann, children can be traumatized in relation to their parents' sex life. Have you ever thoght about your parents having sex? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif It's just too traumatic to think of. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bob S. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well yeah Bob... I thought it was gross but I certainly wasn't traumatized. And it was just a thought... I didn't actually see or take part in my parent's sexlife and neither did the kids of the couple I know.

Trailscout

07-27-2003, 08:01 PM

Resorts that allow sexual piercing and look the other way, "wink, wink, nudge nudge" at swinging seem to confirm the "nudist colonies are sex clubs" preconception in the minds of those who don't know that every place that calls itself nudist is not necessarily nudist.

Thankfully, sincere Christians and people of other faiths who believe in wholesome family nudity need not subject themselves to Sodom and Gomorrah II. There are still good camps aplenty that do their utmost to provide non-sexual family recreation and root out sexual perversion whenever it rears its ugly head.

I encourage monogamous couples to look for these camps with high standards, to shun the camps that don't hold nudist family values and I urge them to fight to help make AANR the society it ought to be and thus bequeath wholesome nudist venues for our children to enjoy in the future.

greyhair

07-27-2003, 08:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Resorts that allow sexual piercing and look the other way, "wink, wink, nudge nudge" at swinging seem to confirm the "nudist colonies are sex clubs" preconception in the minds of those who don't know that every place that calls itself nudist is not necessarily nudist. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>More opinion? Why not use facts? Are you afraid of being factual? Why did you duck every issue raised? No courage to support your convictions?

You have yet, despite many posts from people, to show proof that piercings are sexually oriented.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Thankfully, sincere Christians and people of other faiths who believe in wholesome family nudity need not subject themselves to Sodom and Gomorrah II. There are still good camps aplenty that do their utmost to provide non-sexual family recreation and root out sexual perversion whenever it rears its ugly head. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The only sexual perversion that I can recall reading about was in one of those "family camps".
See "Crocus Grove" where a good family club had a molestor as a member for several years.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
I encourage monogamous couples to look for these camps with high standards, to shun the camps that don't hold nudist family values and I urge them to fight to help make AANR the society it ought to be and thus bequeath wholesome nudist venues for our children to enjoy in the future. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>BTW, the AANR isn't the only organisation that represents nudity.

Of course, you still haven't shown how sex between consenting adults is perverse or morally wrong. Care to use facts and proof, rather than mere unsubstantiated opinion?

I know it is difficult, but if you really struggle, you can do it.

Oh, here is something to think about. Take a look at the INA "recommended clubs and resorts" list. Do you believe that every club on that list is a wholesome family-value type place?

greyhair

07-27-2003, 08:54 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
greyhair, way to go! It's an interesting debate that pits facts vs. opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is no debate. Debate is only possible when both sides can respond to points raised in the arguments. So far, Trailscout seems to be avoiding responding to the points raised by making generalized speeches about something he refers to as family values.

greyhair

07-27-2003, 09:03 PM

Trailscout said"
"It is absurd that you try to extrapolate the behavior at your swinger/sex club to that of all Canadian nudism."

When challenged to explain how the actions of consenting adults done in private make a club a sex club, Trailscout ducked out.

Trailscout claims in response to the fact that my wife is pierced in the nipples:
"Some character traits are hidden and some we wear on our sleeves or in some cases nipples. I have no problem condemning disfiguring ornaments, particularly those that are on the genitals, but to a lesser extent the nipples because of they are not randomly placed, but are deliberately positioned to send a sexual invitation to all who see it."

When challenged to show how he determines her intent, Trailscout again ducks out.

Just about everything that has been challenged, Trailscout refuses to respond to.

Does he only post to throw insults at people he has never met or does he really believe that he has been endowed with a god-like ability to discern people's motivations and character from afar?

Prometheus

07-27-2003, 09:23 PM

Trailscout, you can believe whatever you want /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif but let me ask you this:

When you meet someone at a nudist resort who has a piercing/tattoo/whatever that you disapprove of, do you walk up to them and start preaching your beliefs to them? Call them a pervert? Ask them to take it off? Report them to the resort staff? Does anyone pay attention to you if you do?

My above question makes me wonder how often you have really encountered these things that offend you so much. In my experience, it is easy to condemn something when you don't know anyone who does it. On the other hand, most people don't have the guts to condemn someone they know for the same behavior.

Trailscout, I think you (and several others) are emboldened by the anonymity of the internet, and that you type things you would not say within earshot of those you criticize. To be fair, lots of us do this. I'm sure I am not completely innocent myself. But I would like to see everyone make an effort to only type things they would say if the other person was in the room with them.

GO AWAY

07-27-2003, 10:56 PM

AND THE AWARD GOES TO...PROMETHEUS

johny

07-28-2003, 03:03 AM

RE:
""So what is genital piercing about? Can someone explain it to us who are unpierced?""

The mildest forms for man is frenulum piercing as mine. If uncut it may be in the loose flap near the back of head, or if cut it is situated bit farer from head but underside anyhow. After healing period it never is painy or only many kilograms of force happen to be able to crush skin. Piercing process is made by motion of pushing/pulling not the cutting so nerve endings may not be damaged of course, as only exclusion the total unluckness and dumb piercer. If the jewellry inserted is small enough and not contains a screwed balls wich may unexpectedly unscrew, it is no disturbing to sex at all. Even contrary, it touches inside of woman somewhere to make feelings better. Bigger jewellry may be easily removed before sex, so only question remains is - do such jewellry is esthetic or no.

Fashion never have space for debattes, and youngsters walking with piercings isnt that much better comparing if they would misconsume drugs etc. Human are free to do everything and I cant find nothing wrong with piercings even in the case of piece of "manhood" generally.

More badly are piercings in uretra or head, I have feeling it may damage something. The same about sack. But even if someone has does it, how this may offend ME (or someone else)? Its not mine, He is not me, and he is a free person with free will.

07-28-2003, 04:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by greyhair:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
greyhair, way to go! It's an interesting debate that pits facts vs. opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is no debate. Debate is only possible when both sides can respond to points raised in the arguments. So far, Trailscout seems to be avoiding responding to the points raised by making generalized speeches about something he refers to as family values. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Truly there is no debate. We have Trailscout on one side slinging insults and everyone else presenting facts. He's been ducking my posts too, because he doesn't have answers. He can't back up his statements. His only desire in this thread has been to inflame logical minded people with his childish antics.

tarsus

07-28-2003, 06:15 AM

i have a question. what does swinging have to do with genital piercing?
and now my nickels worth. why does a woman wear six inch heels? why do most women and a growing number of men remove body hair? wear make up
push up bras, sheers, and spend a fortune on hair products?? and men mostly: wear suits that can cost thousands? to be noticed thats why. why would anyone pierce anywhere??? same thing. i wore earring in the late 60s, early 70s. but now
everyone does it so whats the point? i do not swing,i like canada, and i go to resorts that allow singles,and have been married twice.
and those piercing? just another way for the fashion industery to make money. don't belive it?
look at the clothing ads geared at young people.
ron

Dave M.

07-28-2003, 07:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by tarsus:
i have a question. what does swinging have to do with genital piercing?
and now my nickels worth. why does a woman wear six inch heels? why do most women and a growing number of men remove body hair? wear make up
push up bras, sheers, and spend a fortune on hair products?? and men mostly: wear suits that can cost thousands? to be noticed thats why. why would anyone pierce anywhere??? same thing. i wore earring in the late 60s, early 70s. but now
everyone does it so whats the point? i do not swing,i like canada, and i go to resorts that allow singles,and have been married twice.
and those piercing? just another way for the fashion industery to make money. don't belive it?
look at the clothing ads geared at young people.
ron <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Who knows after all this is Trailscouts fairy-tale from his home /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif fairy-land. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

07-28-2003, 07:47 AM

I have been so proud of myself for not saying anything for awhile. It seems as if circumstances have forced me to reevaluate my silence. It appears to me a certain individual has found yet another forum to espouse his brand of Christianity and prove his ignorance. It appears this individual has still not learned to do any reserach and base his opinion on fact and still engages in the same type of behavior he engaged in on the other forum. (By the way, what happened to that forum?) Fellow posters,we have several options regarding this individual. First option, respond to his ranting and raving...there by giving him more fuel for his fire (flames). Another option and this is the one I personally prefer, ignore him. For those of us who have kids....remember sometimes ignoring a behavior caused it to extinguish...or go away. Maybe, just maybe if, we ignore such a poster it will go away. I realize it may take some time and patience and tongue biting and keeping our collective fingers off the keyboard. I feel this latter option may be the best to pursue in this situation.

I know I said it in another thread but it still holds true...opinions based on fact are just that opinions. Not based on fact and research is prejudice....and we all know prejudice is dangerous.

07-28-2003, 08:01 AM

My opinion on genital piercings has not changed. I proudly sport my five where ever I go, and when ever I happen to get nakey.

My first genital was a frenum, on the bottom side of my penis, just below the head. I was not happy with the placement, so immediately re-did it positioning it where I wanted. I also have another frenum on the top of my penis, just at the corona, or the ridge. My last genital, and I really don't know if it is a genital, is a pubic, right at the base of my penis. My latest piercing is a scrotal, at the base of my scrotum.

My piercings were not done for sexual reasons or to increase pleasure for a partner. I am married, but my wife is disabled. We have not had sex for several years. I did the piercings for a variety of personal reasons. I have found though they do increase my pleasure. Heaven forbid if a certain poster reads this he will condemn me again...not just for the piercings but for masturbation too.

Hey fellow posters.....maintain an open attitude towards all....and accept all....no matter what our differences. Closed minds never get played with and challenged and exercised, and consequently never have a chance to grow and experience new things. Maybe we should feel pity for them...they do not become strong.

BTW, piercings done by a competent trained piercer should not damage any nerve endings or cause any major problems. Proper care should take care of things. BTW, the only piercing I ever had any problem with was an ear, done by a gun. If you are curious about piercings and the procedures, and personal experiences I recommend the following site: www.bmezine.com (http://www.bmezine.com) the site has plenty of information for the initiated and the unintiated. Happy browsing and I hope you learn something if you check the site out.

Dave M.

07-28-2003, 08:06 AM

MJ bought up kids so I bring this up -some times removing from the situation is the best solution and gets the point across best.

Bob S.

07-28-2003, 07:43 PM

Trailscout, couples have sex at nudist camps all of the time. They just do it in private. Are you sure that your park isn't home to a swinger? Can you be sure that anyone you meet is not a swinger? Keep in mind that Theologians have interpreted the Bible in ways that limit the specific ways that a couple can have sex. Are those who are guilty of performing other positions from the Kama Sutra also immoral?

I actually agree with you somewhat that swinging is just not right. But that's just me. I wouldn't even dare to condemn others who do it unless they are affecting me personally.

Realize that you are taking the same side as the textiles take in their view of nudism in the argument of GPs. You see the GPs as something sexual, even if they are not meant to be. Textiles see nudity as sexual, even if it is not meant to be. You feel that in a family-friendly setting, no one should be wearing GPs. Textiles feel that in a family-friendly setting, clothes should be worn. You believe there is a moral issue in having GPs. Textiles feel there is a moral issue in staying clothed. You, my friend, seem to be a textilic-minded nudist.

Bob S.

07-28-2003, 07:58 PM

Good post Bob!

Too bad it's wasted on someone that won't understand it.

greyhair

07-28-2003, 08:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
Trailscout, couples have sex at nudist camps all of the time. They just do it in private. Are you sure that your park isn't home to a swinger? Can you be sure that anyone you meet is not a swinger? Keep in mind that Theologians have interpreted the Bible in ways that limit the specific ways that a couple can have sex. Are those who are guilty of performing other positions from the Kama Sutra also immoral?
/QUOTE]
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>

The reason our club has no problems with our swinging members, is that it is a small club, and the members all know each other quite well. There are members who don't approve of swinging, and there are members who don't disapprove of swinging but are not interested in swinging.
So long as there is no overt sexual activity, none of the members have any problem. Overt sexual activity would and has brought condemnation from both the swingers and non-swingers. This has happened with a young couple(who liked an audience) who were urged to move on, as their behaviour was not appropriate to the membership. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
I actually agree with you somewhat that swinging is just not right. But that's just me. I wouldn't even dare to condemn others who do it unless they are affecting me personally.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And I agree with you that condemning someone who is not doing anything that affects you personally would be wrong. Personally, I have no interest in what other couples do in their own quarters, be it a tent, camper or trailer, so long as they don't do it in the public areas of the camp.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Realize that you are taking the same side as the textiles take in their view of nudism in the argument of GPs. You see the GPs as something sexual, even if they are not meant to be. Textiles see nudity as sexual, even if it is not meant to be. You feel that in a family-friendly setting, no one should be wearing GPs. Textiles feel that in a family-friendly setting, clothes should be worn. You believe there is a moral issue in having GPs. Textiles feel there is a moral issue in staying clothed. You, my friend, seem to be a textilic-minded nudist.

Bob S. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you for pointing this out. I hope that Trailscout will take your post to heart and realise that he is falling into the same arguments that people like Mark Foley etc use to condemn nudism.

Trailscout

07-28-2003, 08:15 PM

Bob,

You asked, "Are you sure that your park isn't home to a swinger"? I am sure that there are one or two, but the park has strict rules against it and does their best to create a climate that encourages non-swingers to visit and to join.

I have met a swinger by e-mail and I liked her very much, I just think she has a self-destructive lifestyle. I will never identify her. I would rather lie and say that I am a swinger than break her trust in my confidence by calling her out. I hope she will stop this behavior before she catches VD or something, but people get stubborn after a certain age.

Changing the subject to reply to your other questions:
Theologians with an agenda can interpret the Bible to their own destruction. I have no use for them.

I don't see why you are so reluctant to condemn bad behavior. I don't want any evasive answers from an M.D. who is evaluating my health. I want the honest straight blunt truth. Why is it so hard to tell the truth to other people? Oh I realize that this is limited to trusted friends. What idiot would fight moral battles all day with people too hardheaded to listen. Hmmm. That would be me! I try not to!

You are so hopelessly wrong about the GP issue. This stuff is a form of clothing, something we do because nude is not good enough. And there is no way someone is going to stick a needle attached to a gaudy bauble through the most sensitive part of his body (to the exclusion of all other body parts) if he wasn't a "look at the sparkly thing on the end of my penis" exhibitionist.

I have to laugh at how indignantly they try to deny their perverse exhibitionism. Methinks they protest too much.

greyhair

07-28-2003, 09:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Bob,

You asked, "Are you sure that your park isn't home to a swinger"? I am sure that there are one or two, but the park has strict rules against it and does their best to create a climate that encourages non-swingers to visit and to join.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How does the park's rules work that they can prevent swinging? Do they restrict who can enter campers, tents or RV's? If CoupleA invites CoupleB inside their RV, does management do "no knock" searches to see if the two couples are swinging or innocently play Pinochle?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
I don't see why you are so reluctant to condemn bad behavior. I don't want any evasive answers from an M.D. who is evaluating my health.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But it isn't your health or values that is of concern. The swingers and piercers are consenting adults, who can make up their own minds what is best for them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Why is it so hard to tell the truth to other people? Oh I realize that this is limited to trusted friends. What idiot would fight moral battles all day with people too hardheaded to listen. Hmmm. That would be me! I try not to!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why is it so hard for you to refrain from trying to run other people's lives. Did the swingers or piercers request that you direct their lives?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
You are so hopelessly wrong about the GP issue. This stuff is a form of clothing, something we do because nude is not good enough. And there is no way someone is going to stick a needle attached to a gaudy bauble through the most sensitive part of his body (to the exclusion of all other body parts) if he wasn't a "look at the sparkly thing on the end of my penis" exhibitionist.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Playing Ghod again, Trailscout? Again you indulge in determining what other people are thinking.
BTW, you are wrong when you state that "to the exclusion of all other body parts". Most piercers have other piercings as well as their genitalia piercings. This is just another example of you posting in ignorance. I realise that "ignorance is bliss" but try reality sometime, it isn't that bad.

GO AWAY

07-29-2003, 12:46 AM

You GO GREYHAIR...

TAKE IT HIGHER...

LOL

Bob S.

07-29-2003, 07:59 PM

I apologize if any of this is a repeat of what greyhair said, but well, it can't be helped. He did a great job.

Trailscout, remind me again what nudist park you frequent. And either provide the URL for it or post the specific rule that bans swinging in the privacy of a cabin or a zipped tent.

I will condemn any and all behaviour that will have a negative effect on me or is hurtful to someone else. That would encompass most behaviours where there is a real victim. All other issues I will debate (if I choose to) with others who want to debate. I reserve condemnation to those who deserve it; those who hurt others willfully and callously.

And you can disagree with another's behaviour without condemning them or the behaviour. Again, I am against swinging in my relationships and may use the swinging aspect of their life to lower them a notch or two on my own morality scale that I use to determine who I want to have as a friend, but that is only one part of the scale. In college, my friends included a self-proclaimed Satanist who shop-lifted and smoked marijuana with another of our friends. They were friends with the "dealer" who worked with campus security and had access to the vending machines, which he sometimes stole money from.

They may not seem to be the cream of the crop, but the first two were really great friends of mine because they were so loyal and accepting. I didn't agree with some of their choices, but I also didn't condemn them for it.

I am going to vehemently take issue with your sweeping condemnation of my opinions. "You are so hopelessly wrong about the GP issue." I have never told you that your opinion is wrong. I will instead debate the issue with my own opinion while respecting your beliefs. And you know what? Sometimes people just put a ring on their penis because they want to. Not because they want others to look at their penis, not because they are sexually charged, not because they want to enhance their sexual experiences, but because they see the penis as just another muscle, another body part that has no more importance than the navel, nose, earlobe, nipple, or tongue.

Bob S.

GO AWAY

07-29-2003, 08:03 PM

KEEP EM COMING...

I'M SO EXCITED

07-29-2003, 08:42 PM

I know what I said.......but here I am.

So TS is gonna lie....doesn't he know you can go to hell just as easy for lying as for stealing? What happened to our Christian morals.....do we put them on only to condemn and judge others?
Morals are morals and are a 24/7 thing...not to be used only when we want!!!!!!!! For shame to lie....What happened to Christian values?

Agendas...I think someone has one.....to push his opinion as "gospel".

"Bad behavior" who are you to judge "bad"? Who died and put you in charge.....you have no right to judge. Remember once we start to judge we have the responsiblity of being perfect, awesome responsibility isn't it? I know I am not perfect....and do not judge others. It is not in my job description as a human being. I do not try to be a demi-god, or is that demagogue.

Checkout the definition of clothing in your dictionary....that is if you have one. There is a difference between jewelry and clothing. Did we fail to do our research again?

Bob S. I agree whole heartedly with your last paragraph.

"A rose is a rose is a rose" To paraphrase..."A penis is a penis is a penis", nothing more...nothing less. Just a hunk of flesh guys have...and if a guy wants to decorate it.....it is his prerogative. By the way....why are we always going on about guys with pierced genitals....there are lots of females out there with pierced genitals also. Personally, having a pierced penis...I would not really notice or care if a female has her genitals pierced. After all, it is hers to do with as she pleases, and if she chooses to decorate it....it is her business, not mine.

Lastly, If you are going to quote someone....get the quote right...or are you too lazy to do your research....why am I not suprised.

greyhair

07-29-2003, 08:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mj:
I know what I said.......but here I am.

Checkout the definition of clothing in your dictionary....that is if you have one. There is a difference between jewlery and clothing. Did we fail to do our research again?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I wonder if TS includes wedding bands and engagement rings as "clothing" that should be banned from nudist clubs? Crucifixes?

07-29-2003, 09:09 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I don't see why you are so reluctant to condemn bad behavior. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You haven't even proven that it really is bad behavior to begin with. Facts.... I want factual evidence.

I've asked you several times to back up your statements with facts and you always duck me.

I think you are scared to try....

tidoublegerpb4

07-29-2003, 09:48 PM

Trailscout,

It's un-BEEEE-lievable how faulty your logic is. Seriously. I've tried to avoid chiming in on this, but I mean, if it's going to go on forever, then I might just as well get in my 2 cents.

FIRST, in regards to genital piercing, you have stated that you would prefer the clubs you go to to not allow genital piercing and would like it if beaches could make similar restrictions (I'm paraphrasing). And now you are stating that part of the reason that you're against it is because you view it as another piece of clothing. By that logic, you would feel that people with their ears pierced are also just trying to cover up more. Also, they would be conducting more forms of body mutliation.

THEN, there's the issue of body shaving. More paraphrasing here, you're against that as well due in part to the fact that it's exhibitionism as well as another form of body shame. By that logic, any one who gets a hair cut or shaves daily is a facial exhibitionist in addition to being ashamed of his true facial features by shaving.

And on both counts, you can't claim societal norms, because, I hate to break this to you, nudism isn't a societal norm. In addition, there are FAR MORE instances in the Bible stating that shaving and cuting of hair is against God than genital shaving and piercing.

I'm with Cyn on this one. You have to state the facts and have an arguement with fewer holes if you don't want to appear to just be close minded.

In my opinion, be proud of who you are and celebrate your body's beauty. Respect others and their individuality. And be happy being nude!

Bartamus

07-29-2003, 10:04 PM

Folks let's all remember what this thread was about..Genital piercing.
It has nothing to do with religion. Those that
love discussing religious beliefs on every subject can please go to the religion and naturism thread
Thank You
The Mgt.

GO AWAY

07-29-2003, 10:23 PM

Right On TIdoubleGrr...

And to the Management guy...the reason is keeps turning into a religious discussion is because TrailScout and others are trying to use the Bible to justify their invalid points...

It's acutally pretty embarrassing to hear the stuff they say, from a so-called CHristian point of view...but if they were true Christians they would know what they are doing is actually against their religion...HELLO THE DEVIL KNOWS THE BIBLE TOO...AND HE ALSO KNOWS HOW TO USE IT OUT OF CONTEXT...GET SOME REAL POINTS...AND STOP TRYING TO HIDE BEHIND RELIGION BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING THE RELIGION LOOK BAD...

Anyway, not to continue on the subject...POST ON PEOPLE...

LOVE YA ALL LIKE PLAY COUSINS...LOL

PIECES...

J

Dave M.

07-30-2003, 03:41 AM

Trailscout---The sparkly things on my penis /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif would like the facts and please stop hidding behind religion /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif My brain would like to know what religion your promoting so I can stay the H-E-L-L away from it !!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Naturist Mark

07-30-2003, 04:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
And to the Management guy...the reason is keeps turning into a religious discussion is because TrailScout and others are trying to use the Bible to justify their invalid points... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Where did Trailscout or anyone else do that in this thread?

I think people are confusing this discussion with others in the religion section.

Trailscout made one(1) ill tempered remark about swinging being an abomination. No Bible quotes, no theology.

I don't think this discussion is serving any purpose any longer. Trailscout has made his position perfectly clear to everyone. His opponents have made their opposition clear. Now it is just both sides sniping back and forth, increasing personal rather than on the points - which have all been made, each side rejecting the other's views.

This is no longer a respectful discourse, it is playground bullying.

-Mark

Dave M.

07-30-2003, 05:46 AM

The problem is Trailscout is the bully and that management guy won't do his job and remove and ban Trailscout from the playground as for everyone else they are just defending themselfs or what they know is right. BTW-- this is not the first time this situation has happened!! I guess Trailscout will be till he gets his goal-- to destroy this forum?!!!!!The shame is that management guy is just going to let him and do nothing!!!

greyhair

07-30-2003, 06:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
And to the Management guy...the reason is keeps turning into a religious discussion is because TrailScout and others are trying to use the Bible to justify their invalid points... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Where did Trailscout or anyone else do that in this thread?

I think people are confusing this discussion with others in the religion section.

Trailscout made one(1) ill tempered remark about swinging being an abomination. No Bible quotes, no theology.

I don't think this discussion is serving any purpose any longer. Trailscout has made his position perfectly clear to everyone. His opponents have made their opposition clear. Now it is just both sides sniping back and forth, increasing personal rather than on the points - which have all been made, each side rejecting the other's views.

This is no longer a respectful discourse, it is playground bullying.

-Mark <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>May I quote a portion of a TrailScout post in this thread, where he comments on clubs that allow piercings?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Thankfully, sincere Christians and people of other faiths who believe in wholesome family nudity need not subject themselves to Sodom and Gomorrah II. There are still good camps aplenty that do their utmost to provide non-sexual family recreation and root out sexual perversion whenever it rears its ugly head. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Looks to me like he is bringing in religion and making the statement that any club or camp that doesn't meet up with his personal view is "Sodom and Gomorrah II"

Since you seem to understand the boy, could you tell us why he fails to back up any of his statements when asked to prove something?

07-30-2003, 06:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dave M.:
The problem is Trailscout is the bully and that management guy won't do his job and remove and ban Trailscout from the playground as for everyone else they are just defending themselfs or what they know is right. BTW-- this is not the first time this situation has happened!! I guess Trailscout will be till he gets his goal-- to destroy this forum?!!!!!The shame is that management guy is just going to let him and do nothing!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Great post dude! /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

07-30-2003, 06:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:

I don't think this discussion is serving any purpose any longer. Trailscout has made his position perfectly clear to everyone. His opponents have made their opposition clear. Now it is just both sides sniping back and forth, increasing personal rather than on the points - which have all been made, each side rejecting the other's views.

This is no longer a respectful discourse, it is playground bullying.

-Mark <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It never was a respectful discourse on Trailscout's side. He's been purposely taking digs at the rest of us for weeks now and the moderators don't do a damned thing about it.

His language is highly inflammatory, using words that hurt intentionally, which is what a troll does.

The moderators are not doing your job by letting him continue to post that way and it hurts this forum to let him post that garbage and not make it very clear to those that peek in here that nudists don't as a rule believe anything like he does.

As long as he posts garbage it is our duty as nudists to make sure the truth is known so people don't get the wrong idea about nudism by believing what he's posted here.

As such, the moderators are the one perpetuating these threads that used to be discussions by allowing Trailscout to continue unchecked.

07-30-2003, 06:36 AM

To find facts to support ones opinions means one has to do some basic research. If one cannot use facts to support ones self it looks to me as if one of several things may be occurring....1) basic reserach is not being done for what ever reason, (maybe lazy and not wishing to pursue research, maybe unwilling to face facts counter to ones opinion, or does not know how to do basic research), or 2) unable to find facts to support arguements.

I think when one cannot find facts to support oneself one grasps at straws and instead of appearing intelligent and informed one appears quite the opposite.

I truly think all we are asking is to use, as Joe Friday would say..."Just the facts," to support ones arguements in this forum or any other forum.

I have said it repeatedly....not to base an opinion on facts is prejudice and we know how dangerous prejudgements are and can be. Gosh, do I sound like a broken record, or in todays tech...a scratched cd. (Some say repitition can lead to learning.)

IMHO, I really don't think it, religion, would be discussed so much in this forum if it was not consistently used to support ones opinions. Again....basic reserach is not being done...so fall back on the "crutch". It really saves having to open up ones mind and challenge ones belief systems. Was it Marx or Lenin....and I don't mean Groucho or John who said something to the effect that religion is the opiate of the masses(I am not sure if he meant catholics or not). Maybe we have a steady poster who is steadily drugged? I don't know...was just wondering.

Dave M.

07-30-2003, 06:49 AM

Maybe thats why he hides like a coward-no facts just being mean and hatefull /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

07-30-2003, 05:15 PM

Hey fellow posters......

I just checked out my play book....there are 10 big plays. They focus on love and respect. Not one of the 10 plays says "Thou Shalt Not Pierce Thy Genitals". I guess that should solve some of the concerns we have here. I guess if it doesn't explicitly say you cannot do something.....it is good to go.

07-30-2003, 05:57 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:

I don't think this discussion is serving any purpose any longer. Trailscout has made his position perfectly clear to everyone. His opponents have made their opposition clear. Now it is just both sides sniping back and forth, increasing personal rather than on the points - which have all been made, each side rejecting the other's views.
This is no longer a respectful discourse, it is playground bullying. -Mark
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It never was a respectful discourse on Trailscout's side. He's been purposely taking digs at the rest of us for weeks now and you don't do a damned thing about it.
You are not doing your job as moderator <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>cyndiann am I missing something here? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Is naturistmark one of the moderators here? I thought it was Corky, Corey, and Bartamus. Now I do admit their avatars do look quite a bit alike.......please set the record straight for me and any others who might be confused. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now for everyone either for or against piercings, it is a matter of choice. "Live and let live", life is too short to get so angry over another person's choice. Everyone have a great evening. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Trailscout

07-30-2003, 08:33 PM

Bob,

Bart reminded us to confine our discussion to sexual piercings, so I must comply. We can take up the other issues elsewhere.

"I will condemn any and all behaviour that will have a negative effect on me or is hurtful to someone else. That would encompass most behaviours where there is a real victim."
Sexual piercing victimizes all nudists by casting sexual connotations to social nudism. So you would be justified in condemning genital piercing.

"You are so hopelessly wrong about the GP issue." I thought I was specific enough later on in that post. I will explain any ambiguous remarks if you wish.

Bob sez: "Sometimes people just put a ring on their penis because they want to" Not so! Everything is for a reason. It takes a lot of deliberation before you stick a jaggy metal thing in there. And please don't tell me a penis is just another body part. If someone comes up to you and squeezes your hand and smiles is that the same as someone coming up and squeezing your penis and grinning at you?
................................................
I believe the Taelons are among us, so many have the implants already!

GO AWAY

07-30-2003, 08:42 PM

SICK SAD LITTLE MAN...

AND THANKS DUDE FOR SHOWING HIM HOW HE BROUGHT RELIGION INTO IT...AND KEPT DOING SO...READ THE WHOLE THING BEFORE YOU START MAKING COMMENTS PEOPLE...

ANYWAY...

I AM OUTTY...
HAHAHAHAAHAA

GET IT GET IT ... GET IT GET IT..OOOO

Trailscout

07-30-2003, 08:48 PM

Tidoublegerpb4,

My objective on this thread is not to malign all piercing (I'll do that elsewhere).
I am only willing to address the practice of piercing one's genitals.

Quite a few resorts ban it and with good reason.

It is creates one more hurdle that marginalizes the nudist community from open-minded textiles who are considering our lifestyle.

It really is disgusting, creepy, ugly, offensive, anti-nudist, narcissistic, sexually obsessive, and a waste of time and money.

Again I will be glad to address other body modification issues elsewhere. Sexual jewelry is uniquely perverse and deserves special treatment. Not only that, it is widely banned in nudist resorts.

I can accept your admonition to respect others, but I have to laugh if you think that means respecting their behavior regardless of what they do. Have you ever seen the television show Jacka$$? Do you respect the characters Johnny Knoxville portrays?

Trailscout

07-30-2003, 08:56 PM

Miami,

I can tell you disagree with some of what I said, but you haven't really criticized anything in particular so I kinda think you are just blowing smoke

I could use religious arguments but I won't.

Not getting pierced is just common sense.
1. It costs nothing not to do it.
2. You won't get infected by not doing it.
3. Your friends will still love you even if you never get pierced.
4. You will have fewer obstacles to getting admitted to resorts.
5. Our human body is lovely just the way we are born.
6. Security screening at the airport will be a breeze without the metal.

greyhair

07-30-2003, 08:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Bob,

Bart reminded us to confine our discussion to sexual piercings, so I must comply. We can take up the other issues elsewhere.

"I will condemn any and all behaviour that will have a negative effect on me or is hurtful to someone else. That would encompass most behaviours where there is a real victim."
Sexual piercing victimizes all nudists by casting sexual connotations to social nudism. So you would be justified in condemning genital piercing.
[QB] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Real victim? Sorry, but that some people choose to see sexual connotations in jewelry does not make it harmful. By your "logic", those conservative textiles that see sexual connotations in simple nudity are thus justified in working to ban nudism because they see it as harmful to the community at large.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>[QB]
Bob sez: "Sometimes people just put a ring on their penis because they want to" Not so! Everything is for a reason. It takes a lot of deliberation before you stick a jaggy metal thing in there. And please don't tell me a penis is just another body part. If someone comes up to you and squeezes your hand and smiles is that the same as someone coming up and squeezing your penis and grinning at you?
................................................
I believe the Taelons are among us, so many have the implants already! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is nothing jagged about a piercing. They are very smooth and well-crafted surgical steel.

BTW, could you explain why you condemn people you have never met as perverts? I have asked you this before, but your cowardice seems to make you ignore the request.

greyhair

07-30-2003, 09:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Tidoublegerpb4,

My objective on this thread is not to malign all piercing (I'll do that elsewhere).
I am only willing to address the practice of piercing one's genitals.

Quite a few resorts ban it and with good reason.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Most resorts and clubs, WORLDWIDE, do not ban them. It is only in the US that you find such provincial thinking.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
It is creates one more hurdle that marginalizes the nudist community from open-minded textiles who are considering our lifestyle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Please provide proof that it does what you claim.
Failure to provide such proof will show you to be a liar and a hate-ridden twit.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
It really is disgusting, creepy, ugly, offensive, anti-nudist, narcissistic, sexually obsessive, and a waste of time and money. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is your opinion, one that is not shared by most intelligent people.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Again I will be glad to address other body modification issues elsewhere. Sexual jewelry is uniquely perverse and deserves special treatment. Not only that, it is widely banned in nudist resorts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>False! Why do you keep lying?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
I can accept your admonition to respect others, but I have to laugh if you think that means respecting their behavior regardless of what they do. Have you ever seen the television show Jacka$$? Do you respect the characters Johnny Knoxville portrays? [/QB] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't watch much TV, but I can say that I don't have much respect for hate-mongering liars who won't prove any of their statements.

Trailscout

07-30-2003, 09:09 PM

Greyhare,
Genital jewelry is an addition to simple nudity. Simple nudity has been sufficient for 100 years, so why are some nudists drifting away from simple nudity and toward a look at my sparkly penis attitude?

You don't have to be a pervert, you can just wear jewelry like one and people will mistake you for one.

greyhair

07-30-2003, 09:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
[QB] Miami,

I can tell you disagree with some of what I said, but you haven't really criticized anything in particular so I kinda think you are just blowing smoke <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You haven't proven any of your claims and ducked almost every request for you to back up your opinions with facts. So who is blowing smoke?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> I could use religious arguments but I won't.

Not getting pierced is just common sense.
1. It costs nothing not to do it.
2. You won't get infected by not doing it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You won't get infected if you practice proper hygiene.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> 3. Your friends will still love you even if you never get pierced.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Has nothing to do with having your friends love you. It is a personal decision made by each individual.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
4. You will have fewer obstacles to getting admitted to resorts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>FALSE!
Only in certain resorts in the Uptight States of America will you have problems. In most of the world(ATTN: TrailScout! there is a world full of other countries outside the borders of the USA)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
5. Our human body is lovely just the way we are born.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again, that is the decision of the individual.

greyhair

07-30-2003, 09:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mj:

Trailscout....who gave you permission to speak for most nudists....looks as if there is only one of ......
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let's be fair, Trailscout didn't claim to be speaking for anyone.

Most of what he wrote was clearly identified as opinion. He did make one broad statement:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Most nudists find genital piercings contrary to the spirit of non-sexual public nudity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which can only be construed as representing his impression of the opinions of those nudists he is familiar with.

I'd have to say I think he is right on. Most of the practising real world (as opposed to online) nudists I've met feel that way too. Many are also very tolerant of it (to each his own, etc.) but I've heard what is said.
-Mark <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Looks like Mark has never looked at the world outside the corner of the USA that he inhabits. North of the border, Mark, is a large country. It is called Canada. I haven't found ONE(1)! nudist club in Canada with a policy prohibiting genital piercings. They are common enough here that they raise no comments from real meatspace nudists. The only complaints that I have seen about piercings come from online nudists. Check around the world and see how many European clubs and resorts ban piercings. Think globally and realise that the internet and nudism are global and not just American things.

Trailscout

07-30-2003, 09:24 PM

Monkey see monkey do.

Individuals would not suddenly decide by the hundreds to skewer their penises.

Lemmings make decisions like that, jumping off a Norwegian cliff because the lemming in front of him just jumped.

The burden is on the piercing victim to justify the holes he punches in his perfectly good body.

I support all resorts with the good taste and the respect for the beauty of the human body to keep the holy men outside the gate.

GO AWAY

07-30-2003, 09:27 PM

AW too bad for you TrailScout I am too mature to stoop to your level..

Have fun at the bottom...with your attitude that is where you will stay...

OOO OO OOO OO OOOOO I GOT A NEW ATTITUDE...

YA'LL READY...YEEEAAHHHH...

LET'S DO THIS...

FREEEDDDOOOMMMM FREEEDDOOOMMMM FREEEDDOOOMMM OH FREEEEEEDDDDOOOOMMMMM....

J

GO AWAY

07-30-2003, 09:34 PM

way to disect it Greyhair...

see i don't even have to waste my time on him...
fun people like you make it soo much fun to sit back and laugh...

KEEP EM ROLLING

GO AWAY

07-30-2003, 09:35 PM

oH YEAH...AND STAINLESS STEEL DOESN'T SET OFF AIRPORT DETECTORS...

BLAH BLAH BLAH

YOU ARE DOING THAT...I WANT YOU TO DO THIS..shh shh shh....LOL

Trailscout

07-30-2003, 09:38 PM

Miami,
Does Dr. Laura know that you stole her song?

You know if you swim in the salt water long enough your jewels will turn green and drop off?

People will like you for who you are. I gotta admit you can make people laugh with your sense of humor. You don't need no glitter and tinsel to be important and respected!

GO AWAY

07-30-2003, 09:43 PM

Piercings are part of who I am...and i have been in salt water for three days straight...

look...they aren't green...oh darn...mine must be fake...

LOL...

it's over you're being shut down...SORRRY..

bye bye now...

greyhair

07-30-2003, 10:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Monkey see monkey do.
[QUOTE]
Individuals would not suddenly decide by the hundreds to skewer their penises.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Prove your statement. BTW, I am still waiting for you to explain why you said that my wife, among others is a pervert.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Lemmings make decisions like that, jumping off a Norwegian cliff because the lemming in front of him just jumped.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just like lemming-like people tithe and worship a fictional deity and his son?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
The burden is on the piercing victim to justify the holes he punches in his perfectly good body.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The burden is on you to justify why you attack people who you have never met for simply choosing to wear jewelry. I bet you don't have the BALLS to confront someone, in the physical world, who is pierced.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
I support all resorts with the good taste and the respect for the beauty of the human body to keep the holy men outside the gate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The globally small fraction of resorts clustered in the Uptight States of America. Most of the world doesn't have a problem with piercings. So everyone else is wrong but a handful of rednecks living in the Southeast USA?

Please forgive my laughter at your country bumpkin-like attitudes.

GO AWAY

07-30-2003, 10:18 PM

LOL Greyhair I am from the COuntry...and it does sound like those type of places...set in their midevil ways...

KEEP EM COMING GREYHAIR...YOU ARE THE BEST DUDE...

greyhair

07-30-2003, 10:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
Piercings are part of who I am...and i have been in salt water for three days straight...

look...they aren't green...oh darn...mine must be fake...

LOL...

it's over you're being shut down...SORRRY..

bye bye now... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I am amazed by TrailerTrash's ability to lie and make up things as he goes along. Must be a different christian bible he follows. The ones that I have seen frowned on lying.

GO AWAY

07-30-2003, 10:36 PM

LOL...for real GreyHair...

I guess when in Doubt Lie it out...ALl his observations are basically biased one sided lies...

He tries to capitalize on theories and facts that don't exist...

But it's all GRAVY...

He isn't doing anything but digging his own ditch...

FREE FALLING....CAUSE I'M FREE....FREE-BALLING...

LOL
G

greyhair

07-30-2003, 10:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
way to disect it Greyhair...

see i don't even have to waste my time on him...
fun people like you make it soo much fun to sit back and laugh...

KEEP EM ROLLING <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Someone else will have to take over for me/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I am leaving tomorrow afternoon for 10 days of camping at Lilly Valley Park in Fort Erie. It's our club's 40th Anniversary on Saturday. The festivities will go on for the full weekend. My wife will be proudly wearing her 1-1/8" rings. Should be a fun weekend. The club may be getting a horse(confirmation was to come today) for some "Lady Godiva" photos, and there will be two classic cars for photo props as well('51 Mercury and a '57 Ford). Every site and rental trailer has been booked. A huge potluck supper for Saturday.

When we get back, I will post some pics at Cyndiann's site My Nudist Life (http://www.mynudistlife.com)

In the meantime, have fun and keep laughing.

GO AWAY

07-30-2003, 10:45 PM

Yo Dude that's awesome...
Have fun...and I wouldn't worry to much about
responding to trailscout...
he will probably get depressed because this is the only way he can get people to talk to him...

but it will definitely be less interesting without your TRUE INTELLECT...

ANYWAY..LOVE, PEACE, AND CHICKEN GREASE..

J

greyhair

07-30-2003, 11:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
Yo Dude that's awesome...
Have fun...and I wouldn't worry to much about
responding to trailscout...
he will probably get depressed because this is the only way he can get people to talk to him...

but it will definitely be less interesting without your TRUE INTELLECT...

ANYWAY..LOVE, PEACE, AND CHICKEN GREASE..

J <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just noticed that I messed up the URL for Cyndiann's site. it should read My Nude Life (http://www.mynudelife.com)

Oh well, that's what happens when you get tired.

Dave M.

07-31-2003, 03:51 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Miami,

I can tell you disagree with some of what I said, but you haven't really criticized anything in particular so I kinda think you are just blowing smoke

I could use religious arguments but I won't.

Not getting pierced is just common sense.
1. It costs nothing not to do it.
2. You won't get infected by not doing it.
3. Your friends will still love you even if you never get pierced.
4. You will have fewer obstacles to getting admitted to resorts.
5. Our human body is lovely just the way we are born.
6. Security screening at the airport will be a breeze without the metal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Since your so concerned about the cost of piercing why don't you pay for it? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
[/list]
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>You mean because I have genitlal piercngs they are the cause of any infections I piercings that they are the cause of ALL infections I may get? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
[/list]
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Friends love me with my piercings -so whats the difference? /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
[/list]
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>I have better things to do than hangout in airports- so no problem /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
[/list]
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Yes we are fine the way we are born but- whats wrong with a little decoration? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
[/list]
Since your NOT paying for it why worry?--No money out of your pocket!! If you take care of you piercings infection is not a probem. Trailscout why are you so worried about genital piercings ???? We with genital piercings can even have friends!! Trailscout you have stated your opinion MANY times and provide no facts to back-up the clams you have made with your opinion so why not move on? Besides It's not your body so you don't have to go thorough the piercing process so you can't claim pain nor can you have the joy of being pierced..

Naturist Mark

07-31-2003, 05:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by greyhair:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:
Most of the practising real world (as opposed to online) nudists I've met feel that way too. Many are also very tolerant of it (to each his own, etc.) but I've heard what is said.
-Mark <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Looks like Mark has never looked at the world outside the corner of the USA that he inhabits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Looks like Greyhair didn't read what he quoted.

I said that most of nudist's that I've met feel similarly to Trailscout, but that they also have a live and let live attitude about it.

As I've written before, the resort I most frequent, Turtle Lake, does not prohibit body mods. But the few visitors who do have noticeable genital mods do cause cause talk and opinions among the regulars. There is definately a prejudice out there even among the 'liberal' clubs like Turtle Lake, and Trailscout represents their views very well. You don't have to agree with him, I don't, but he is quite right about how some people in this little corner of the world (and probably beyond) feel.

Now, why do you keep flogging a dead horse? You know Trailscout's views, he knows yours. Neither is going to change. Neither of you is contributing anything new.

-Mark

Dave M.

07-31-2003, 06:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by greyhair:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:
Most of the practising real world (as opposed to online) nudists I've met feel that way too. Many are also very tolerant of it (to each his own, etc.) but I've heard what is said.
-Mark <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Looks like Mark has never looked at the world outside the corner of the USA that he inhabits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Looks like Greyhair didn't read what he quoted.

I said that most of nudist's that I've met feel similarly to Trailscout, but that they also have a live and let live attitude about it.

As I've written before, the resort I most frequent, Turtle Lake, does not prohibit body mods. But the few visitors who do have noticeable genital mods do cause cause talk and opinions among the regulars. There is definately a prejudice out there even among the 'liberal' clubs like Turtle Lake, and Trailscout represents their views very well. You don't have to agree with him, I don't, but he is quite right about how some people in this little corner of the world (and probably beyond) feel.

Now, why do you keep flogging a dead horse? You know Trailscout's views, he knows yours. Neither is going to change. Neither of you is contributing anything new.

-Mark <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>PREJUDICE (any kind) IS WRONG AND MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO PRVAIL!!!!! THIS IS ABOUT PERSONAL CHOICE AND MUST PREVAIL!!I ask are you willing to make decisions on ingnorance and intolorance??? Are you against personal choice and willing to be denied personal choice?? If so your willing to live under tyranny how inhuman!!

greyhair

07-31-2003, 06:39 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by greyhair:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:
Most of the practising real world (as opposed to online) nudists I've met feel that way too. Many are also very tolerant of it (to each his own, etc.) but I've heard what is said.
-Mark <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Looks like Mark has never looked at the world outside the corner of the USA that he inhabits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Looks like Greyhair didn't read what he quoted.

I said that most of nudist's that I've met feel similarly to Trailscout, but that they also have a live and let live attitude about it.

As I've written before, the resort I most frequent, Turtle Lake, does not prohibit body mods. But the few visitors who do have noticeable genital mods do cause cause talk and opinions among the regulars. There is definately a prejudice out there even among the 'liberal' clubs like Turtle Lake, and Trailscout represents their views very well. You don't have to agree with him, I don't, but he is quite right about how some people in this little corner of the world (and probably beyond) feel.

Now, why do you keep flogging a dead horse? You know Trailscout's views, he knows yours. Neither is going to change. Neither of you is contributing anything new.

-Mark <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I am still waiting for the SOB to explain why he labelled my wife, among others, as a pervert when he has never met her.
He also has made a number of claims, but has never backed them up.
Could you explain why you kiss his arse, but chide others for disagreeing with him. He can make attacks on others, but you call any posts disagreeing with him, "beating a dead horse".

07-31-2003, 08:13 AM

This is off thread but please bare with me...

Folks...the way I see it....

We have let one individual take over OUR Forum. Have you noticed how much time and energy we spend responding to him rather then sharing our ideas and opinons. HE has taken OUR forum. How can we reclaim OUR forum. Ignore him. Ignore his rants. Ignore his posts....after all many of us see them for what they are.....prejudiced opinions, not based on fact. We also see he is unwilling, or unable, to support his statements with facts. (Is he too lazy to do basic reserach to support his opinions....or maybe he cannot find any research to support his feeble attempts at a feeble logic.)

Maybe we need to feel pity for the individual. Maybe the only attention he gets is from us folks here. (Remember bad strokes is better then no strokes.)

I shunned him in one area for comments he made....and will be shunning him here also. I ask my fellow members to do the same. Ignore the individual and we will not have to spend our time on him and his prejudices. We will be able to reclaim OUR forum.

Trailscout

07-31-2003, 09:28 AM

Grayhair,
Before the thread gets buried, let me set the record straight. I did not say you wife or anyone with genital jewelry is a pervert.

I have no reason to believe that she isn't a fine lady and the joy of your life.

I do believe that some people will misjudge her or anyone for their choice of wearing jewelry that is commonly associated with perverse sexual practices. The same way a man with an earring is assumed to be a homosexual, even though he may not intend to send that message.

NaturistMark is quite right. We have fully debated this topic and I will move on to other things.

greyhair

07-31-2003, 10:02 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Grayhair,
Before the thread gets buried, let me set the record straight. I did not say you wife or anyone with genital jewelry is a pervert.

I have no reason to believe that she isn't a fine lady and the joy of your life.

I do believe that some people will misjudge her or anyone for their choice of wearing jewelry that is commonly associated with perverse sexual practices. The same way a man with an earring is assumed to be a homosexual, even though he may not intend to send that message.

NaturistMark is quite right. We have fully debated this topic and I will move on to other things. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let me quote your own words back to you.

You said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some character traits are hidden and some we wear on our sleeves or in some cases nipples. I have no problem condemning disfiguring ornaments, particularly those that are on the genitals, but to a lesser extent the nipples because of they are not randomly placed, but are deliberately positioned to send a sexual invitation to all who see it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you asked my wife if her intent is to send a sexual invitation?
Why do you wish to slander people you have not met?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So why would you insist that she is sending a sexual invitation? I asked you previously as you can see from the quote, and you failed to respond.
You sir, are a lying, self-righteous bigot.

BTW, now that many people have asked you to prove your statements, you are quite anxious the drop the thread. Looks like you are not only a liar, but you are also a coward. You are certainly not a christian.

Trailscout

07-31-2003, 10:30 AM

Grayhair,
You can send out an invitation without realizing it. It happens all the time.

greyhair

07-31-2003, 10:39 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Grayhair,
You can send out an invitation without realizing it. It happens all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I see, so you assume that she is sending out an invitation. Even if her intent is not in that direction. It would appear that you are seeing it as an invitation. That would indicate that it is your own perception that is at fault. The lust is in your own heart and mind, not in the wearer. Why are you attacking others when you have the problem. Blaming others for your own spiritual and moral weakness... for shame!

Better look deeply at your own self and pray for strength to fight your own personal demons.

greyhair

07-31-2003, 10:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Grayhair,
You can send out an invitation without realizing it. It happens all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>BTW, I found yet another example of your slandering of people whom you do not know and have no knowledge of:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> If your assertion is true, I pity your club manager's decision to ignore blatant immorality by claiming that as long as he doesn't "see" it it didn't happen. It is absurd that you try to extrapolate the behavior at your swinger/sex club to that of all Canadian nudism.

While I deplore all piercings and tattoos as anti-nudist in effect if not sentiment, the particular concern of this thread is sexual jewelry. Your survey sounds contrived, but even if true, it simply proves that you frequent a sex club that claims to be nudist and that the patronage seems to be evenly divided between exhibitionist sadists and people who have abandoned all respect for love, chastity, marital fidelity and moral decency and apparently your resort manager finds it profitable to claim that this den of iniquity is a nudist venue.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Please explain this, you *****, **** **** ******.

GO AWAY

07-31-2003, 12:34 PM

Is it me or are all of TrailScouts Opinions based on far gone stereotypes...

Men with both ears pierced are considered homosexual...

whoa it's too bad just about every male you encounter now-a-days have both ears pierced...

And it's also a cultural African and SOuthern AMerican Tradition...

Man, it is better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all DOUBT>..

OOOPS TOO LATE FOR TRAILSCOUT...

WOOF WOOF

LOL

Jeff Samuel

07-31-2003, 01:08 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by flash:
im just now getting into the whole nude thing and have looked at tons of web sites and talked to folks at the aanr and other places..and it seems genital piercing is frowned upon...you guys know why? later <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Genital modifications such as piercing are rooted in the pornographic industry. They have made their way to naturism because both share a love of nudity. If one major selling point of naturism is a return to natural living, then piercing and its cousin shaving really are a corruption of what is natural. Anyone who pierces, shaves, tattoos, or otherwise modifies their genitals is not a true naturist in the traditional sense of the word. Now many modern naturists do these things, so maybe naturism has evolved and this is now considered a natural lifestyle. Non-naturists who enjoy social nudity are often put off by this piercing stuff. Anyone who genuinely wants a return to more natural living would naturally be opposed to it. I stand with Trailscout in renouncing the general immoral tone that pervades naturism, of which piercing is definitely a major factor.

GO AWAY

07-31-2003, 01:16 PM

BLAH BLAH BLAH

CRY ME A RIVER, BUILD ME A BRIDGE, AND GET OVER IT

HEE HEE

07-31-2003, 02:37 PM

For pete's sake...Genital mods rooted in the porn industry.....what are your facts.....all we ask is you use facts here. Genital mods go way back in time....and were around long before the porn industry. There are primitive societies who have never seen porn that practice genital mods....and they certainly predate the porn industry. It appears you are new here...please check out www.bmezine.com (http://www.bmezine.com) to learn more about body mods and get some first hand information about various body mods. Also a general search on the web will refer you to plenty of sites.

Next....and I am sure I will catch some flack here for being "immoral"....but...I stopped at a porn shop the other day...and spent some time in a viewing booth. Know what...in the films I saw...there was not a single pierced genital...and not even a pierced nip. By the way I didn't get my genital piercings done to emulate a porn actor.

I really do not see how GP can be a major factor influencing the general immoral tone pervading naturism. Upon what citeria do you base "immoral" and remember when we start to judge others we have to accept the awesome responsibilty of being perfect.

I have said this in other posts and repeat it here. Opinions not based on fact are prejudices. We know how dangerous pre-judgements can be. Be objective,do some research and base your opinions on fact.

Jochanaan

07-31-2003, 02:43 PM

Children, children! Fight nice, now! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Seriously, I am amazed at the "flaming" passions I've just read. Especially from some who claim to "live and let live." Whatever one person has said, there's no need for another to call him intolerant or worse simply because he has strong opinions and expresses them strongly. But there's also no call to denigrate the tone of an entire movement because of the decorations of a few, or even a substantial minority, especially since many piercers specifically disassociate themselves from perversion and promiscuity.

My suggestion (I'm not a moderator so I can only suggest) is not to post anything on this thread (why are they called "threads" since most of us don't like to wear any? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) for twenty-four hours. Then, if there is still something to be said, perhaps the words used will be more respectful, perhaps even with apologies if necessary.

I pray that God (or Goddess, or what you will) will heal wounded spirits and restore relationships on this forum.

Jeff Samuel

07-31-2003, 03:44 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mj:

Next....and I am sure I will catch some flack here for being "immoral"....but...I stopped at a porn shop the other day...and spent some time in a viewing booth. Know what...in the films I saw...there was not a single pierced genital...and not even a pierced nip. By the way I didn't get my genital piercings done to emulate a porn actor.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We are all entitled to our opinions. So naturism is not tied to porn, at least through piercing. But, you are pierced, and you do enjoy porn. Is this just a coincidence?

07-31-2003, 03:47 PM

Thank you Jochanaan! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

07-31-2003, 04:31 PM

in response....I viewed porn long before I was pierced....and see no correlation between my gp and occasional veiwing porn. BTW I have never judged folks for their viewing interests or habits. Also never claimed to be a saint. Also stated while viewing I did not see any piercings...this is first person observation. Granted I did not go into the booth to see if the folks were pierced.......but with genitals on parade and view there it is easy to see.

I hate to put you on the spot but have you ever viewed any porn and able to base your opinion on first hand observation..or is this just another prejudiced conclusion not based on any fact.

07-31-2003, 04:39 PM

Apologies are in order...

I am sorry there are some here who personally attack others...calling them pervs and other nasty names. I am sorry folks do not do basic research to support their opinions and "debate".

I am sorry I have wasted my time and energy reading these vile posts accusing others of misdeed and misconduct and having no knowledge of the folks they are accusing. I am sorry there are folks out there who are unable to see past our pierced genitals and see the goodness of all of us. I am sorry there are folks here who do not have a heart big enough to welcome all, and enjoy our differences. I am sorry ....but there are folks here who are sorrier then I am.

Trailscout

07-31-2003, 05:44 PM

Jeff,
Your words are a breath of fresh air in this stale room.

Naturist resorts, clubs, camps, etc. need to take the moral high ground and call nudists to that higher standard. Strict admissions policies will show people what true natural living is all about.

And there are still lots of us who live the original naturist way and a lot of us cherish the Christian faith and see perfect harmony between wholesome family naturism and a Biblical worldview.

Jeff, I just want to encourage you to do what it takes to find the good side of nudism. There are still resorts aplenty where you could take a young family and not see indecency and you could even invite your pastor if he were educated to the goodness of family naturism.

You are absolutely right that "Non-naturists who enjoy social nudity are often put off by this piercing stuff". Those places that are "broadminded" about it will only marginalize themselves from mainstream society.

If we set a good example, a lot of folks will respect nudism and the ranks of nudism will swell with clean-living family folks and honorable singles, and naturism can throw its doors open to the critics and win public approval like we have always dreamed.

Stand firm on our traditions and dream big, my friend! I keep looking for the day that big church buses will routinely stop in front of nudist resorts and unload a busload of kids, teens or singles for a day of fun and relaxation as God intended. It's up to us to bring that to pass.

Dave M.

07-31-2003, 06:29 PM

Piercing was here long before porn- mj is right about that!!! so Jeff, Trailscout I see what your saying you want naturism to be linked to bigotry . Well shame on you!!! PLEASE get some REAL facts!!! Maybe... then you two won't sound like bigots.

GO AWAY

07-31-2003, 08:11 PM

HAHAHHAAHAHA

PIERCINGS RUUULLLEEEEEEE

LET'S ALL GET OUR FEET PIERCED AND WALK AROUND ON METAL ALL DAY...

OH WAIT...THAT'S TOO SEXUAL

LOL CRY ME A RIVER AND DROWN IN IT...MONGOS

Croydon

08-01-2003, 04:11 AM

I just realized Trail is from the South, now that explains A LOT about the things that comes out of his mouth

Trailscout

08-01-2003, 06:49 AM

I will confess to possessing the advantages that come from being tutored in the social graces that were first given birth on these salubrious southern shores, but many a midwestern farmer, western rancher or lumberjack, northeastern sophisticate and mellow west coast denizen has also seen the wisdom of not skewering himself like a hog primed for the barbecue spit. And many folks throughout this fair land have no desire to diminish the splendor of their "family jewels" by bedecking them with any lesser jewels. T'would surely be guilding the lily!
Wisdom, good sir, although born here, now has no geographic limits.

Dave M.

08-01-2003, 09:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
I will confess to possessing the advantages that come from being tutored in the social graces that were first given birth on these salubrious southern shores, but many a midwestern farmer, western rancher or lumberjack, northeastern sophisticate and mellow west coast denizen has also seen the wisdom of not skewering himself like a hog primed for the barbecue spit. And many folks throughout this fair land have no desire to diminish the splendor of their "family jewels" by bedecking them with any lesser jewels. T'would surely be guilding the lily!
Wisdom, good sir, although born here, now has no geographic limits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes the south the land of hate, intolorance,ignorance and bigotry what a proud history!!! Need I say more?
Wisdom No!!

08-01-2003, 09:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mj:
This is off thread but please bare with me...

Folks...the way I see it....

We have let one individual take over OUR Forum. Have you noticed how much time and energy we spend responding to him rather then sharing our ideas and opinons. HE has taken OUR forum. How can we reclaim OUR forum. Ignore him. Ignore his rants. Ignore his posts....after all many of us see them for what they are.....prejudiced opinions, not based on fact. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We didn't do that... the moderators have. They have made it our job to show the people who come here to learn about nudism that trailscout's views are an anomoly when they should have taken away his posting ability weeks ago.

If we ignore him it will create the impression that nudists think like him and let's face it, very few do thank goodness.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> We also see he is unwilling, or unable, to support his statements with facts. (Is he too lazy to do basic reserach to support his opinions....or maybe he cannot find any research to support his feeble attempts at a feeble logic.)

Maybe we need to feel pity for the individual. Maybe the only attention he gets is from us folks here. (Remember bad strokes is better then no strokes.)

I shunned him in one area for comments he made....and will be shunning him here also. I ask my fellow members to do the same. Ignore the individual and we will not have to spend our time on him and his prejudices. We will be able to reclaim OUR forum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That would not be reclaiming it.... that would be abandoning basic nudist principles of acceptance.

It is a shame we are forced to do what the owners/moderators should be taking care of but as it is we have no choice.

bertirolioliolo potatolioliololiolo

08-01-2003, 09:27 AM

Gor blimey, this is all familiar!
Throw some percieved pro -homosexuality and percieved anti -religion in and see if you can get the topic removed !!
I'm so glad the worlds such a huge place! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

08-01-2003, 09:30 AM

Dave M...could not agree with you more. I have known some of those southern gentlemen....and those I have know have been given to the traits you describe. I thank God I am a Yankee. Seems as if most the Yankee gentlemen I know take are offended by what passes as southern gentility.

TS....family jewels refers to the testicles....and as we all know the testicles are a pair of glands, similar in function to ovaries, not an organ. And BTW, the testicles are not pierced for a decoration, a scrotum maybe...but testicles no. I have had a testicle pierced, but that was a medical procedure to drain a hydrocele. Again....let us get our facts straight before we open our mouth and prove our ignorance. I still have to see anything which even remotely passes as wisdom in your posts.

cdg-fr

08-01-2003, 10:43 AM

As someone up north of the border of the USA, I can tell you that I don't think of any guy with an earring as gay, and am shocked by the intolerance expressed about this topic. Surely this is a personal choice...not for me, but I can accept it is a choice made by others and don't know why it needs to be about sexual orientation, sexual choice or anything like that.

08-01-2003, 12:54 PM

dudes and dudettes....I just read cyndianns post in response to mine....and you know what....she is right. It is OUR forum....to maintain hold on. We do have a responsiblity to let others know while his opinion is his, and he may be very vocal....it is in reality in the minority.

BTW.....as i expalined to Dave M. in a pm...i am accepting of all.....lets just say there are some folks here who i think would not be a lot of fun to hang out with.

Jeff....you have done a real good job of evading my question.....have you viewed any porn and have first hand knowledge with which to back your obviously very biased opinion? Just wondering........again....no facts=prejudgement.

08-01-2003, 03:37 PM

For those of you who might be interested here are some sites on the history of body piercings.....

www.tonguerings.net/history.htm (http://www.tonguerings.net/history.htm)

www.guns2roses.com/piercing_history.htm (http://www.guns2roses.com/piercing_history.htm)

there may be some duplication of information on the sites.

Trailscout

08-01-2003, 04:39 PM

cdg-fr,

I had to laugh when you called it intolerant! A few years back, men in the local gay community used an earring in one ear as a cue to others in the community that he was gay. It was not a well-kept secret and I don't see as much of it as I used to. For a while the gays took to wearing hospital orderly shirts, kind of a fad within the community. I pity the guys who weren't gay who were hospital workers and got razzed about that too.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cdg-fr:
As someone up north of the border of the USA, I can tell you that I don't think of any guy with an earring as gay, and am shocked by the intolerance expressed about this topic. Surely this is a personal choice...not for me, but I can accept it is a choice made by others and don't know why it needs to be about sexual orientation, sexual choice or anything like that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

08-01-2003, 05:47 PM

ts....what does that have to do with gp's. you really are stretching it to link a pierced ear with a pierced genital....now i realize some folks here have their head up their a**...but that doesn't make the ear a genital...you really are grasping at straws to make yourself look stupid...and intolerant.

Did you go to the links I posted? They cover the history of body piercings and you just might learn something. Ears were one of the first body parts ancient man pierced. Only in recent times has it been adopted as a sign of sexual orientation. And it appears only in the USA has it been that. Do some research....in fact the research has been done....all you need to do is click on a link and read. Maybe that is asking too much of you.

Hey did you check out the new National Geographic? I got mine in the mail yesterday. It has primitives in the Amazon jungle. You don't need to look to close to see they have adorned/decorated their bodies with natural dyes...and if you look real careful...one of them has done something unnatural with his penis. Are these folks gonna go to hell because they aren't Christians, and have decorated thier bodies? Do you think they are ashamed of their bodies and that is the reason they paint them? I bet the have no idea of body shame.

Come on dude...get real and move into the 21st century. I will admit you might, in fact most likely will, experience a deal of culture shock. Also need to become more ethnocentric and adopt a world view. I will grant you the USA is, in my opinion, the best nation on earth....but we have much to learn from others....but then to learn from others requires something some of us in this thread don't have....an open mind.

I guess my next question is...how did you know the pierced ear was a sign....did you ask a guy wearing an earring to find out for sure...or you just going on heresay? Do you ever base anything you say on facts or do you just open your mouth based on heresay and prejudgements? The same goes with the hospital shirts.....how do you KNOW...did you ask, did a guy wearing a hospital shirt hit on you or just going on heresay again?

Gosh, if you don't have anything based on fact to say and all you have to say is based on heresay and third hand information...why don't you just keep your hands off the keyboard? If you can add facts to the discussion I welcome the discourse...it you can't add facts or opinions based on facts....please keep your prejdices out of here. I am not speaking for all in here..nor would I presume to do so...but I am sure there are several in here who would agree with me.

Dave M.

08-01-2003, 06:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mj:
dudes and dudettes....I just read cyndianns post in response to mine....and you know what....she is right. It is OUR forum....to maintain hold on. We do have a responsiblity to let others know while his opinion is his, and he may be very vocal....it is in reality in the minority.

BTW.....as i expalined to Dave M. in a pm...i am accepting of all.....lets just say there are some folks here who i think would not be a lot of fun to hang out with.

Jeff....you have done a real good job of evading my question.....have you viewed any porn and have first hand knowledge with which to back your obviously very biased opinion? Just wondering........again....no facts=prejudgement. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>mj is right--LETS BE ACCEPTING OF ALL!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

08-01-2003, 07:05 PM

I accept all the individuals here...It is the BEHAVIOR I cannot accept. I have said it repeatedly to post opinion not based on fact...is prejudiced..and that is behavior I would like to see stopped. (And is behavior I abhor.) Personally have seen first hand results of prejudiced behavior. I remember being in 'nam at the time MLK was assassinated. I was a machine gunner, my assitant gunner black. We were standing with another gun crew, both of whom were black. My squad leader, a southern gentleman from GA, came up to us and stated in no uncertain terms...."They ought to shoot all you f**king ni***rs." Southern gentility at it's best...I doubt it. (by the way I did not stand idly by but it is a long story.) I have also seen prejudiced behavior against other races and nationalities. IMO, if we were all accepting we would not have prejudical bigoted statements being made here. I do not see prejudgements as being accepting, or acceptable,
behavior.

Trailscout

08-01-2003, 08:55 PM

mj,
Ain't nothing wrong with being black or white or yellow or brown, or freckled.

It's all about behavior. True nudists don't need to punch holes in their bodies to feel good about themselves.

I've met plenty of Yankees who are prejudiced against southern folks. How about you? Are you trying to say that all people from the south are one thing or another?

I am not saying that all people with sexual jewelry are evil. A lot of them are not, they just look like perverts without meaning to.

Jeff Samuel

08-01-2003, 09:31 PM

Trailscout,
We will have to be patient while we are called all sorts of names. Bigotry is found when people do not accept others, and it can go both ways.

As for the rest, If the obvious has to be explained to them, they would not understand. Let's keep them in prayer. Maybe someday nudity will return to a more natural representation in society.

To answer the question have I seen porn. Yes, and that is why I know its effects on people. I have been around a lot of people hooked on it and I see a common element which parallels piercing and similar behaviors. Since I am a non-naturist person who enjoys social nudity with my family I cannot pretend to follow all of its tenets, especially the apparent acceptance of pornography among many naturists. MJ is not the only one.

Naturism attracts all kinds of wierd people. I cannot accept them because they are misrepresenting themselves by masquerading as some good intentioned person when actually they are a wolf in sheep clothing. They are all around us. You know who you are. As for the true naturists, please apologize if your strange behavior causes someone to mistake you for one of them. You should be more careful.

Trailscout, it appears we are in the middle of a very pro-piercing group. We may be old fashioned and we may be traditional. I do not know why naturism has had to adopt such a free thinking mentality, and why it appears to have taken on so called 'hippie' values. I don't know why traditional values are denigrated so much in 2003. You would think by now that porn and its manifestations would have been eradicated, especially within a movement that constantly is found to say that nudity does not equal sex. We may have to take our message elsewhere, just like the Master had to.

GO AWAY

08-01-2003, 09:48 PM

I am starting to seriously thing that Trailscout is emotionally and socially retarded...

he freaking said people have to put holes in themsevles to feel better about themselves... and he talks about others talking bullcrap...that is definitely out of his butt...

Oh well...i guess he is just behind like a few other people...

Let's all just realize he has some issues...lol...more than most...but issues all the same...

LOL

We all hate piercings...NOT
We all think piercings are sexual..NOT
We all wish they would ban piercings...NOT
We all think trailscout is a genius...???

(does everyone catch on to the pattern)

LOL I need to stay off of here...laughing this much cannot be healthy

08-01-2003, 10:09 PM

Miami, I appreciate a good joke but don't you think you all could lighten up a little on Trailscout? Everytime someone posts something negative about what he says it seems to put you in the same catagory that you are putting him in. Is this really what you want people to think of you too? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Remember the reason we are here in the first place. Not everyone is going to agree on every topic. I thought the true nudist/naturist was more accepting of others. Am I wrong? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Have a great weekend.....everyone...pierced or not! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bob S.

08-01-2003, 10:19 PM

Hey, hey, wait up for me! I don't come here for two days and suddenly there are more than two pages more of messages that have shown up!

Trailscout, I will argue what the topic is. I don't know why we can't go off on tangents, but hey, I'll follow the arguments.

"It takes a lot of deliberation before you stick a jaggy metal thing in there."

Yes. It does take some thought before someone pierces any part of their body. And they have as many reasons to do it as there are body parts to pierce. Some parents have their very young duaghters' ears pierced. That is apparently due to both soietal pressure as well as how they feel. Other parents have their daughters wait until they are at least double-digit aged before getting permanent jewelry.

Now the same arguments can be made for any piercing, except that all of the other piercings are done by those who are at least 16 years of age. I could list some of the reasons why, but I would inevitably leave out some important ones. And seeing as how I don't have any piercings and do not have any want to get any, I am probably not the best one to list any.

"And please don't tell me a penis is just another body part. If someone comes up to you and squeezes your hand and smiles is that the same as someone coming up and squeezing your penis and grinning at you?"

Well, what is a penis if it isn't just another part of the body? For nudists, we accept the whole of the body as fine to allow others to see. We don't make a stink because the penis or vagina is not covered. In nudist environments, the penis, vagina, buttocks, and female breasts jujst blend into the rest of the body.

And no, someone shaking your hand is not the same as that person shaking your penis, of course it also isn't the same as shaking your nose, or your leg, or a clump of your hair. Giving a high five to someone is not the same as smacking them in the face. You still see the penis and vagina as too sexualized. I see them as just another part of the body.

And just like the riddle goes: What is red, moist, and comes out during sex?

The tongue.

Bob S.

Prometheus

08-02-2003, 12:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jeff Samuel:
Non-naturists who enjoy social nudity are often put off by this piercing stuff. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You and Trailscout keep saying things like this. Would one of you care to provide your sources for this? Is this opinion coming entirely from the Reject Shame website (and your own opinions) or do you know other people who think this way? I have never heard anything of the kind as a reason why someone I know wouldn't want to be around nudists. As I have said before, even the socially conservative people in my area don't comment about things like this.

Jeff and Trailscout, you both must realize by now that many of us consider your opinions old-fashioned. If you know resort owners who share your opinions, please feel free to go to their resorts (or not, I suppose, in Jeff's case). Just don't be surprised if you become unpopular when you try to push these beliefs onto the rest of us. But you don't seem to mind a fight, so I'm sure you'll find plenty of people around here who will give you one.

I'm going to get out of here and find a more interesting thread, though I might drop by occasionally with a quote like "Are you guys still going on about this?" http://www.clothesfree.com/ubb/icons/icon46.gif

GO AWAY

08-02-2003, 03:03 AM

HW- I am sorry to have upset you...and I will apologize on your behalf...(unlike other people in this forum)...but

you have to admit it did bring about a chuckle...

PUT A SMILE ON YOUR FACE...MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE..

08-02-2003, 04:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
HW- I am sorry to have upset you...and I will apologize on your behalf...(unlike other people in this forum)...but
you have to admit it did bring about a chuckle...
PUT A SMILE ON YOUR FACE...MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Miami no need to apologize to me, ask anyone here where I spend most of my time....Off Topic Fun Stuff. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I do have a rare moments of voice-activated serious posts. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

For something really serious see my poll on Off Topic Miscellaneous.....it is called "Other Reasons". Not a fun topic, but it is my way of understanding the people here.

Now if you don't mind some advice...awww too bad, you didn't say no so I'll take that as a yes. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Have fun, play nice, go get something pierced this weekend if it makes you feel better. Live and let live, life is too short for all the fighting. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

08-02-2003, 05:48 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by hw:
Miami, I appreciate a good joke but don't you think you all could lighten up a little on Trailscout? Everytime someone posts something negative about what he says it seems to put you in the same catagory that you are putting him in. Is this really what you want people to think of you too? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Remember the reason we are here in the first place. Not everyone is going to agree on every topic. I thought the true nudist/naturist was more accepting of others. Am I wrong? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Have a great weekend.....everyone...pierced or not! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>First of all there is no such thing as a "true nudist". It is an imaginary figure in some bigots' minds of what they consider to be someone with their own personal morals.

Second point is that this is way past being about agreeing on every topic. It has become a mission of decent nudists against bigot nudists. If you had read more about why we continue you'd know that we are stuck with this situation because the moderators won't step in and stop the ignorant comments of one person that seems to be mentally challenged when it comes to social attitudes. Do you really want new people peeking in here to think we are like ts? Not me!

Dave M.

08-02-2003, 06:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Prometheus:
[QUOTE] Just don't be surprised if you become unpopular when you try to push these beliefs onto the rest of us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Their is the problem in a nutshell ( Trailscout-Jeff.... BTW - Yes you are entitled to your opinion)--------- /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

GO AWAY

08-02-2003, 07:20 AM

Lol I am not fighting I am just watching a closed minded man dig himself a deeper ditch...LOL>..what goes around comes around and all that he has done and said has already been done to him...

YEAH YEAH GOD IS GOOD...YEAH YEAH GOD IS GREAT...

oh wait i thought the point of being a Christian is to lead a life in which someone would be drawm to follow...hmmmm...doesn't sound like trailscout...no wonder people don't want to be Christians, people like trailscout judge them before they have a chance to give it a try...

I am so glad GOD isn't like that...

J

and i wasn't apologizing to anyone specific...just for personally attacking trailscout...but now that i think about it...I wasn't doing anything anywhere near what he has done...just because I don't like someone doesn't mean I have to fake like i do...but there is no need to stoop to his level, that is too far of a fall..

anyway...

"THE MEAN THINGS YOU SAY DON'T MAKE ME FEEL BAD...HOW CAN I LOSE A FRIEND THAT I'VE NEVER HAD...I'VE GOT JESUS AND THAT'S ENOUGH...THAT'S MORE THAN ENOUGH"

J

Trailscout

08-02-2003, 07:45 AM

Miami Nudist,

This is a thread about people who perniciously pierce their penises, so I want to stick to the point as much as I can, but do you think everyone who disagrees with you is being mean? If you do, your life will be full of mean people.

This thread is Clown College and you are just about to step into the wide world and leave the clowns behind. All I am saying is that you should take some cold cream and wash the clown off your face before you make a fool of yourself out there in the real world. The Bozo wig, the nose, all that stuff is gonna get you laughed at or at least ostracized, no matter how cool the other clowns at the circus think you are.

Now whenever I feel like piercing something, I go out to the hog pen and find me a little pig that hasn't got a ring in his nose and put a big pretty gold ring right on his snout so he can't root his way out of the pen. Then I wash the pig blood off my hands and walk back to the cabin thinking, "better him than me". That piercing stuff is not meant for human beings.

08-02-2003, 08:15 AM

ts.. what is a "true naturist?" what facts do you have to back your statement "True naturist....to feel good about themselves" What facts can you cite to show piercing is done to feel good about one's body. Please get specifc sources we can read.

I am not prejudiced against anyone.....it is behavior I dislike, not the individual. Also am not saying all southern folks are one thing or another.

Again, who defines perv. and what one looks like. Got facts?

GO AWAY

08-02-2003, 12:10 PM

LOL....you are not meant for Human Being Trailscout...

and stop trying to read into things further than they are...I just don't like you because you are biased and mean...People can disagree with me, that is fine, but you are just grotesquely emotionally retarded....I have come to that conclusion that is why I don't care what you say anymore...

You are just a muse of entertainment for me, because you always have some stupid PIGHEADED thing to say...(no pun intended to your last POST)...

TrailScout is a Genius...NOT...

Keep me laughing dude...I rather enjoy it...

LOL...J

08-02-2003, 05:26 PM

jeff....i am extremely upset with one of your statements....and tells me much of your character and prejudices....

Naturism attracts all kinds of wierd (sic)people. I cannot accept them.....

It is all about accpetance of individuals. What recognized branch of Christianity promotes non acceptance? Is this your and TS branch of Christianity? Your statment tells me you have issues that need to be dealt with. If you expect others to accept you....you best accept others. It seems to me such behavior is very hypocritical. I just call em the way I see em. If I am wrong please correct me.

08-02-2003, 07:55 PM

mj I think you are very right!

GO AWAY

08-02-2003, 08:00 PM

and i think you both are right...

08-02-2003, 08:36 PM

there is one other thing i do need to address in Jeff's post..

wierd(sic)people....who died and put you in charge of judging weird/not weird. some folks might see you as weird....lets be careful...ok.

i am sure you don't like others judging you..so please have enough decency not to judge others.

Bob S.

08-02-2003, 10:28 PM

OK, I'm all caught up; for now.

First let me just state that a nudist/naturist can have any kind of peripheral activities/hobbies beit porn, photography, stamp collecting, juggling, community servie, etc. We cannot decide what kind of a nudist one will be be just simply looking at what they do in their spare time. If they behave appropriately in a nudist venue, that is really all that matters.

Second, I want to comment on Jeff's statement that "Naturism attracts all kinds of wierd people." He is right. It attracts all kinds of people. I can't image that Trailscout and cyndiann have anything in common except for their love of nudism. It can also attract those unmentionables of society and we must be on guard for them.

Third, as cyndiann and mj asked, what is a true nudist? For me, I think of a true nudist as someone who enjoys being naked at home and/or nudist venues. Adding morality does not make anyone more or less of a nudist. Heck, you are deciding upon your own morality and introducing it to others who may not agree with you. Again, that is tantamount to arguing against nudism.

Trailscout, you are free to not get a piercing. I don't understand why; however, you feel that no one else should become pierced and are mounting your moral high horse suggesting that you are better than everyone else who has any kind of body adornment. So it's not for you. Good! Let others make their own decision and rely on their own morals to make those decisions. You do know that we all live by our own moral codes, right? That we are all living good lives without your definitions of morality? That being a Christian is not a guarantee of being a moral person?

Answer me this, Trailscout, why is this topic so important to you?

Bob S.

GO AWAY

08-02-2003, 11:29 PM

yes yes yes....YOU GO BOB...

WHOOP THERE IT IS...WHOOP THERE IT IS...

GET IT GET IT GET IT GET IT...

WELL SAID BOB....BRAVO..ENCORE...

LOL

Prometheus

08-03-2003, 12:24 AM

Are we still discussing this?

There, I promised I would say that. Now, on to other things...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mj:
what is a "true naturist?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>"True naturist" means whatever the person who said it wants it to mean. In debating circles, this is an example of the "No True Scotsman" (http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?NoTrueScotsman) argument:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>MacDougal: You know, laddie, no Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge.
You: Is that so? I seem to recall my cousin Angus puts sugar in his porridge.
MacDougal: Ah... but no true Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trailscout

08-03-2003, 07:02 AM

Bob,

You haven't a clue what naturism is, but I will only respond to your remarks about piercing because of the constraints that this thread imposes on the subject matter of our discussions.
I would be happy to explain your other errors elsewhere in full detail.

If I am wearing genital jewelry and attempt to enter a resort which has a policy against genital jewelry, by definition I am already behaving inappropriately if I am nude and do not remove the jewelry. If it proves too difficult to remove the jewelry, one can simply wear shorts during his visit, although he may be denied access to the pool area.

What you seem to be exploring is the practical limits of ethical diversity. If a nudist community (on their own private property) agrees that certain behaviors or appearances are unbecoming a nudist, their consensus will put limits on the behavior of a few. You seem to imply that the decisions are arbitrary, but we have access to the thoughts of the founders of FKK and the guidance of Ilsey Boone and his contemporaries, and resorts where a Christian climate is desired have the guidance of scripture and for some the tradition of the church.
AANR has had a mission statement and published policies freely available to guide resorts as they determine their admission policies and in extreme cases, a resort might lose AANR affiliation if it deviates from the best interest of American social nudism.

I have individual opinions about sexual piercing and other topics. I am not in a position to directly influence resort policy, but I can use this forum to affirm the goodness of the human body before the slightest modification has been made to it. I do not apologize for having strongly held opinions because opinions supporting genital piercing is in general indicative of one's willingness to allow a sexually-charged atmosphere at nudist venues. This is not merely my opinion, but many people in a position to set resort policy regard genital piercing as clearly linked with perverse sexual practice, grotesque, macabre, inappropriate in a non-sexual atmosphere.

From time to time we hear protests from some here who claim no perverse intent, and others who delight in perversity and want to divert social nudism into debauchery. In either case the appearance is the same and so is the effect.
I applaud nudist resorts that continue to ban this grotesque display and I want to reassure people considering nudism for the first time that there are plenty of places where they will not have to expose their families to this freak show.

Perhaps those who are not content with non-sexual nudity and the simple beauty of the human body should break away from AANR and form a network of clubs where they can strut about on their private campgrounds and compliment one another's shiny instruments of torture proudly dangling from their erect penises.

A lot of us are working hard to create a family of resorts where middle America, young families, people of faith, and all people of good will can be free to enjoy nudism at resorts that adhere to traditional nudist expression.

To those who are looking for a decent place to take your families, we are there for you! If social nudism isn't everything it ought to be at every resort, work with us to make things right!

Dave M.

08-03-2003, 10:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Bob,

You haven't a clue what naturism is, but I will only respond to your remarks about piercing because of the constraints that this thread imposes on the subject matter of our discussions.
I would be happy to explain your other errors elsewhere in full detail.

If I am wearing genital jewelry and attempt to enter a resort which has a policy against genital jewelry, by definition I am already behaving inappropriately if I am nude and do not remove the jewelry. If it proves too difficult to remove the jewelry, one can simply wear shorts during his visit, although he may be denied access to the pool area.

What you seem to be exploring is the practical limits of ethical diversity. If a nudist community (on their own private property) agrees that certain behaviors or appearances are unbecoming a nudist, their consensus will put limits on the behavior of a few. You seem to imply that the decisions are arbitrary, but we have access to the thoughts of the founders of FKK and the guidance of Ilsey Boone and his contemporaries, and resorts where a Christian climate is desired have the guidance of scripture and for some the tradition of the church.
AANR has had a mission statement and published policies freely available to guide resorts as they determine their admission policies and in extreme cases, a resort might lose AANR affiliation if it deviates from the best interest of American social nudism.

I have individual opinions about sexual piercing and other topics. I am not in a position to directly influence resort policy, but I can use this forum to affirm the goodness of the human body before the slightest modification has been made to it. I do not apologize for having strongly held opinions because opinions supporting genital piercing is in general indicative of one's willingness to allow a sexually-charged atmosphere at nudist venues. This is not merely my opinion, but many people in a position to set resort policy regard genital piercing as clearly linked with perverse sexual practice, grotesque, macabre, inappropriate in a non-sexual atmosphere.

From time to time we hear protests from some here who claim no perverse intent, and others who delight in perversity and want to divert social nudism into debauchery. In either case the appearance is the same and so is the effect.
I applaud nudist resorts that continue to ban this grotesque display and I want to reassure people considering nudism for the first time that there are plenty of places where they will not have to expose their families to this freak show.

Perhaps those who are not content with non-sexual nudity and the simple beauty of the human body should break away from AANR and form a network of clubs where they can strut about on their private campgrounds and compliment one another's shiny instruments of torture proudly dangling from their erect penises.

A lot of us are working hard to create a family of resorts where middle America, young families, people of faith, and all people of good will can be free to enjoy nudism at resorts that adhere to traditional nudist expression.

To those who are looking for a decent place to take your families, we are there for you! If social nudism isn't everything it ought to be at every resort, work with us to make things right! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm gald to like to recycle!!!!!!!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Rerunscout where ARE the facts to base you clams on we are waiting!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif PLEASE stop try to force you views on us!! WE WANT FACTS!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

08-03-2003, 10:54 AM

all we are saying is give facts a chance...

all we are saying is give facts a chance....

not quite Lennon but I think we get the drift don't we....

maybe it should be..

all we are saying is give us some facts..

all we are saying is give us some facts

unfounded opinions=prejudices=lack of appreciation or valuing of differences=nonaccpetance of others=danger (can we follow the logic there)

Back in the 30's in Germany there was a dude who wanted all the people to be the same...no jews, no catholics, no one different from his ideal race. Do we have someone here who cannot value/appreciate and accept differences? Some one who wants all to fit his brand of Christianity, his brand of social nudism, his opinions.

Where is the acceptance of differences Christianity expects but then maybe your offshoot of Christianity does not espouse accpetance. Is that really Christianity then...

The choice is yours.....opinions based on fact vs opnions based on pre-judgement

I suggest you do some research, links have been provided in some of my previous posts, and upon completing reasearch reach YOUR conclusions and form YOUR opinions.

Parrots are somtimes pretty but most folks get tired of them saying the same thing over and over and over. They say only what their master taught them and because of limited brain functioning and capacity are unable to come up with new ideas. Do we happen to have a parrot in here?

Informed discourse/debate is welcome....but please use and cite facts to support yourself.

I cannot say if the shoe fits wear it..becuase most of us in here do not wear shoes.....but if you see yourself reflected here....

GO AWAY

08-03-2003, 12:13 PM

HAHAHAHAHAA...MJ CALLED TRAILSCOUT THE NEXT HEE HEE...NOT EVEN GONNA SAY IT...

BUT IT'S SOOOO TRUE...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA...

YOU GUYS ARE SOOOO FREAKING FUNNY...

1 FOR THE MONEY...2 FOR THE SHOW...

GO AWAY

08-03-2003, 12:15 PM

LOL...

has anyone ever noticed that TS repeats himself over and over and over...he must be reading from a book that he wrote...lol...

He never has any solid evidence for anything...

yup emotionally retarded...THAT'S WHAT THE DOCTOR ORDERED...

08-03-2003, 06:16 PM

seems as if i remember ts saying he was not going to post here anymore.

why does he keep posting...why is he so fascinated with the topic....why is he so fascinated with genitials...especially male genitals...why does he talk about erect penises....why does he talk to female dates about getting an erection on the date with her. I am in my 50's and never once did I ever talk to a date about the fact I had an erection while on the date. What kind of person talks about that on a date. Have any of you dudes ever told the dudette you were with you were sporting an erection....and dudettes...has any guy ever told you he ws sporting an erection. Dudette's if a dude told you that....how would you react. Maybe he sports an erection so infrequently it is a moment to remember and celebrate. Now, I am not one to judge....but it does seem to be an inapproprtiate topic of converation on a date.
I have done some things many consider inappropriate behavior...but nothing like that.

Dudes and dudettes....you think that might be one reason he is unmarried.

Bob S.

08-03-2003, 07:27 PM

OK, then please explain to me what exactly naturism is? According to Steve Myers at Netnude, "The only qualification needed {to be a naturist} is a genuine desire to enjoy a clothes optional lifestyle!" I'll tell you what. I am going to start a new topic entitled "What is a naturist" after I am finished writing this one. That way, we can all share our own definitions and not be confused any more when we use the terms naturism/nudism.

You know what, I much prefer debating stu seeing as how he never put down anyone as you have (others have also been guilty of that here, as well. Please stop it). And at least when he debated his side, he actually had a debatable position. You are simply throwing at us your own moral stance, backing it up with your opinion. stu debated using concrete logic. And yet the moderators were publicly much more harsh on stu. Why?

Trailscout, I, nor anyone else here that I recall, have NEVER stated that parks cannot have any type of policy that they want on the books regarding piercings and tattoos. We also have NEVER stated that they have the right to turn anyone away because of violating that policy. What we have been arguing have been the policy itself and the prejudicial attitudes that some, yourself especially, have in regards to how you view others who have piercings ("genital piercing as clearly linked with perverse sexual practice, grotesque, macabre, inappropriate in a non-sexual atmosphere...I applaud nudist resorts that continue to ban this grotesque display...where they will not have to expose their families to this freak show.") And these are not only prejudicial, but mean-spirited, hateful, and downright unChrishtian. I know that Bart has said about keeping on topic, but hey, maybe there is another topic to be created. WWJT What would Jesus think about your attitude of those who pierce themselves? You need not answer me, just think about it.

As far as the AANR goes, when filling out the application, I was never asked if I had any piercings. They do not have any membership policy regarding that. I believe that is one of those decisions that they leave up to the individual clubs. The main thing that the AANR would go against would be a club that promotes adult activities or open sex too often (or ever).

You need to take a chill pill. It's easier to attract flies with honey than vinegar and it is easier to get people on your side when you do not call them stupid.

Bob S.

Bob S.

08-03-2003, 07:35 PM

Incidentally, the new topic, "What is a naturist" will be the "Fun of Nude Recreation" forum.

Bob S.

GO AWAY

08-03-2003, 08:08 PM

Rap on BOB RAP ON....

Trailscout

08-03-2003, 08:21 PM

Bob,
You aren't stupid, or I would not enjoy discussing issues with you. You are incorrect about many of the issues we have mentioned and I look forward to helping you come to see things the Trailscout way. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My grandmother found that honey was too sweet and vinegar too sour, but together it made a good cough remedy. I will try to find her recipe. It's somewhere on this dusty shelf..... /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Bob S.

08-03-2003, 09:22 PM

How can my opinion be incorrect? Am I also incorrect because I am not Christian? Why are you suggesting that I am incorrect just because I disagree with you? Maybe you are incorrect, after all, most of the people who have argued this topic have not been on your side.

Now tell me what FACTUAL issues that I have gotten wrong. What one beleives does not count as factual. You have every right to see someone who has piercings as sexual, but know that others do have other opinions and they are not wrong when their views are different from yours.

My biggest issue with you right now is that you are telling me that my beliefs are wrong and incorrect and do not even back up your statements with any kind of argument. Debate if you are going to debate. What you are doing right now is called flame bait and if you do not stop, I will do something that I have never done before, and that is complain to Bart.

Bob S.

GO AWAY

08-03-2003, 09:51 PM

Everybody plays the fool (SOMETIMES) there's no excpetion to the rule (TRAILSCOUT), it may be factual may be cruel...but Trailscout always plays the FOOL...

LOL

I LOVE MUSIC

08-04-2003, 09:07 AM

all we are saying is give facts a chance...

all we are saying is give facts a chance....

not quite Lennon but I think we get the drift don't we....

maybe it should be..

all we are saying is give us some facts..

all we are saying is give us some facts!!

I don't think ts knows what a fact is...can't imagine him being able to define naturism.

08-04-2003, 09:09 AM

Miami.....the real problem is not playing the fool...but being the fool.

Do like the choice of lyrics..... we could borrow from the Beatles too....something from the sgt pepper album,or maybe it's the magical mystery tour, anyway the point is... the fool on the hill, would be appropriate at this point. It has been too long since I have heard the song but something to the effect the fool sits on the hill and watches the world going round....

Hey J.....stay nakey......

Trailscout

08-04-2003, 07:57 PM

Bob,
I will try to enumerate as many as possible of the specific issues of controversy over genital piercing.

This is not a comprehensive treatment of the issue, but let's open the dialog to these observations:

1. I contend that resorts that ban genital piercing are simply being consistent with historic nudism. (details following)

2. I contend that AANR should dissociate from resorts that allow it in order to remain true to the concepts of Frei Korper Kultur and social nudism as envisioned by Rev. Ilsey Boone.

3. I think it is common knowledge that genital piercing was introduced to naturism by people who commit deviant sexual practices.

4. The ongoing history of nudist daily life is well documented.

5. One core tenet of nudism throughout its history has been affirmation of the unadorned, nude body.

6. Photodocumentation of nudism over the years shows that this tenet was uniformly observed. Literally thousands of nude photos exist over many decades in which no piercing or shaving can be found. To keep our promises to the admins, let's limit our discussion to the piercing issue on this particular thread.

7. Can we take a dispassionate look at nudism as it was defined (not by me, but by its founders) and not see a difference between the traditional nudist ethic and what some on this forum advocate? I think the variance involves far more than piercing, but it is emblematic of an overall divergence from historic nudism, even from what was nearly universally true about it 40 years ago.

I am happy to discuss specifics with you in a respectful manner. It may take a little time, but I assure you that I look forward to scrutinizing any topic relating to nudist ethics you would care to present, in its appropriate thread.

GO AWAY

08-04-2003, 09:22 PM

BLAH BLAH BLAH...
BLABITY BLAH

1. BLAH
2. BLAH BLAH
3. BLAH BLAH BLAH
4. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
5. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
6. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
7. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

no one cares...BLAH BLAH BLAH...still don't care...BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

blabbity

08-04-2003, 09:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>2. I contend that AANR should dissociate from resorts that allow it in order to remain true to the concepts of Frei Korper Kultur and social nudism as envisioned by Rev. Ilsey Boone. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nudism is nothing like what it was back then. It has evolved into something that fits the times and that includes a losening of piercing policies. You are out of your tree if you think we should move backwards.

08-05-2003, 07:59 AM

"It is common knowledge that genital piercing was intoduced to naturism by those who commit deviant sexual practices"....... and where did you do your research to determine that fact. all we are saying is do your basic research and cite some studies we can go back and read.

and again....who is to define a deviant sexual practice. (who put you in charge of deciding what is deviant and not deviant?) What proof do you have all folks who have pierced genitals engage in deviant sexual practices. You need to watch your very biased, dare I say prejudiced, over generalizations.

Also...assume you shave your face.....why not go natural....after all shaving is unnatural...and isn't natural what it is all about.

if shaving=unnatural, and
genital piercing=unnatural

then unnatural=unnatural

what is the big deal.

If you expect folks to overlook your unnatural acts, why are you not willing to do the same? You expect others to accept you, but you are not willing to accept others. (Maybe we need to have a big heart...I think I read that in a post of yours on another thread.) Gosh, sounds like a hypocrite to me. I can accept your shaving which is an unnatural act...why can you not accept my gp? But then I shave my face too...does make 2 unnatural acts..and you are willing to accept one unnatural act but not two? does get kind of complicated doesn't it.

Oh well...I am not here to judge. I just like to point out inconsistencies in "logic", and remind us to do our basic homework, or research.

p.s. could you please provide links to the individuals you cited in bullet point number 2 of your most recent post so i can go to them....ty

GO AWAY

08-05-2003, 12:37 PM

IN OTHER WORDS TRAILSCOUT IS CONSTANTLY CONTRADICTING HIMSELF...

...DAAHHHH....BLLAAHHH...

J

RIVERRAT

08-05-2003, 06:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by greyhair:
While you are are entitled to find genital piercing repundiant and replusive that is your your opinion and I respect it! I'm dismayed that you see anyone with a genital piercicing as a sexual prevert or exhitionist or a wack-job.I'm none of the above!! Nor are the people I know who are "pierced" I find we are normal resonsible people. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If you look I'm sure you will find the same!!!!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ---Normal resonsible people who just happen to have a genital piercing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>BULLS--T [/QB][/QUOTE]

So 'rat, are you saying that the poster is a pervert because he wears a piercing? Do you have knowledge that he is a pervert, or are you basing your claim simply on the fact that he wears a piercing? If a pervert removes his ring, does that make him a non-pervert?

BTW, if you come to Lilly Valley, or any other Canadian club, you will find that many people wear piercings, including my wife.

Oh, and here is something else to consider...
there is a word for people who spend their time staring at other people's genitalia. It's called a gawker. [/QB][/QUOTE]
The whole perpose of this gem is to draw attention to the place where it is, if that is to draw attention to his or her genitals then that is obscene, you figure it out, if I want you to notice a certain part of my body why not make it more obvious, hence low cut gowns and bikini cuts,come on, a nudist resort with young people around shouldn,t have to be directed to the genitals by advertising. Use your head instead of whatever. I mean the head at the top of your body. You figure it out.

GO AWAY

08-05-2003, 07:17 PM

oh goodness...SATAN IS BACK...

THE DEVIL WENT DOWN TO CLOTHESFREE...HE WAS LOOKING FOR A SOUL TO STEAL...HE WAS IN A BIND ALWAYS BEING UNKIND, AND NO ONE LIKED HIM AND WANTED HIM TO CHILL...

LOL

I LOVE IT

RIVERRAT

08-05-2003, 07:51 PM

This may be my last official post, my membership is running out and so am I, MJ you continue driving studs through whatever. As for my spelling, oh, well.About this subject. You will never convince me that the whole perpose of genital decorations is not to draw attention to them. it is only to draw attention to the genitals, also tatoes, it is to make you look at the tattoo, if you want someone to notice something addvertise it, don't say it's just a desplay of jewerly, if thats the case hang it from your nose, people look at your face anyway. I don't even wear a watch, I'm not that pretty I don't want people to look at me, why would I adorn myself with bobbles to make people look at me, much less my genitles. This has no place in a nudist setting. If you want to show of your genitals or whatever, go on MTV, not at a family beach, once again MJ forgive any spelling errors, I'm not here to stand out or put my genetals out with an add on them (hey look at this). I'll still be a member but pretty much silent. Please no tears. Later

Bob S.

08-05-2003, 07:57 PM

Miami, please be constructive. The sideline cheerleading was fine, but just closing your ears to whatever Trailscout is saying is being hypocritical when you are saying he is doing the exact same thing.

Trailscout,
1. Again, nobody has said that clubs cannot decide their own rules and act accordingly. They are free to make those rules and those with piercings and tattoos are free to not attend.

2, 4-7. OK, you think that nudism should return to the days of yore, those "Golden Days." Fine, but think about what else you will be returning to: segregation. I don't think too many nudist clubs back then (probably termed colonies) accepted African-Americans. Heck, they weren't called that back then. I think they had a worse term for them. The concept of nudism was more of a "more healthy lifestyle" with morning aerobics, no drinking, smoking, etc.

Also back then, the technology of piercings was not great and anywhere else that someone wanted to get a piercing had a greater risk to their health than today. Sterilazion procedures weren't great back then just as the thoughts and breakthroughs of antiseptic medicines. Ears, yes. And those who were lucky just didn't get an infection.

It is tough comparing social ideals from 50 years ago to today's. Technology, other social avances, world events, etc. always get in the way of true comparisons. Today's nudism is much different than yesteryear, and for me, it is much better. We have made great strides in social nudism, such as nude beaches, much more parks, and more positive media coverage just to name a few. Would nudism of 40 years ago have a summer camp for children? The whole philosophy has actually changed in small ways and I just don't see that going back to Rev. Ilsey's nudism ideals as really going forward. Use his ideals, but apply them in today's society.

3. That is so prejudicial that it will be hard to even touch. Devient is a tricky word as you are defining it using your own moral code. It also assumes that those who got the piercings did so because of the "debauchery" of others. Why are you so intent to assume that you know what others are thinking or were thinking when they got their piercing? Those who get piercings are not lemmings as you have implied. They may see someone else have a piercing and think that it looks cool. No sex implied in it, just a fashion.

And just so we know, who was the first person to introduce the genital piercing to nudism? You seem to know as you describe him as "devient" so you must know him enough to be able to know his sexual life. If you don't, then why use such language?

Riverrat,

It is a reguar anecdote that nudists put out suggesting the five-minute rule for new nudists, where after five minutes at a nudist venue, the nudity just becomes a part of the background. If that's the case, then why wouldn't that work for piercings? It works for earrings, other facial piercings, tattoos, colored hair, so why not with genital piercings?

Bob S.

08-05-2003, 08:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RIVERRAT:
This may be my last official post, my membership is running out and so am I, MJ you continue driving studs through whatever. As for my spelling, oh, well.About this subject. You will never convince me that the whole perpose of genital decorations is not to draw attention to them. it is only to draw attention to the genitals, also tatoes, it is to make you look at the tattoo, if you want someone to notice something addvertise it, don't say it's just a desplay of jewerly, if thats the case hang it from your nose, people look at your face anyway. I don't even wear a watch, I'm not that pretty I don't want people to look at me, why would I adorn myself with bobbles to make people look at me, much less my genitles. This has no place in a nudist setting. If you want to show of your genitals or whatever, go on MTV, not at a family beach, once again MJ forgive any spelling errors, I'm not here to stand out or put my genetals out with an add on them (hey look at this). I'll still be a member but pretty much silent. Please no tears. Later <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ain't no crying going on here...

how many last posts can you make? LOL!

since we are nudists and there are no "dirty" body parts then there is no harm in drawing attention to any part of the body. If you think genitals are obscene you need to hand in your nudist membership card and secret decoder ring.

GO AWAY

08-05-2003, 08:20 PM

UM NO...

TrailScout chooses to always be rude..so I choose to ignore him...He has his freedom of speech...and I have my Freedom of FUN...

FREEEEDOOOMMM...FREEEEEEDDOOOMMMM...FREEEEEDOOOOMM MMM....OOOOOOHHH FRRRRRREEEEEDDDDOOOOOMMMMM

j

soundman

08-05-2003, 08:25 PM

Riverrat,
Are you not posting because a few people wear that kind of jewelry? I've never seen it myself and I've been to a few nudist resorts and nude beaches. But I have heard rumours that someone had it at a resort I was at. But, I am definately not going to let it ruin MY day. It fact, after this, it is the last thing I, myself, want to talk about. What people wear, clothes or jewelry, is optional and as a nudist, I am not going to try to force a dress code on anyone.
Stay happy and be a friend to all!

GO AWAY

08-05-2003, 08:34 PM

AWESOME SOUNDMAN....AWESOME!!!

Jochanaan

08-05-2003, 09:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mj:
Apologies are in order...

I am sorry there are some here who personally attack others...calling them pervs and other nasty names. I am sorry folks do not do basic research to support their opinions and "debate".

I am sorry I have wasted my time and energy reading these vile posts accusing others of misdeed and misconduct and having no knowledge of the folks they are accusing. I am sorry there are folks out there who are unable to see past our pierced genitals and see the goodness of all of us. I am sorry there are folks here who do not have a heart big enough to welcome all, and enjoy our differences. I am sorry ....but there are folks here who are sorrier then I am. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That wasn't exactly what I meant.

Trailscout

08-06-2003, 09:01 PM

Bob,

I would have to do some digging, but there have been postings on past INA threads expressing indignation that some clubs ban sexual jewelry. Would these people go so far as to launch some campaign demanding that all AANR resorts should be forced to admit anyone without past legal problems? I hope it doesn't come to that.

I think that AANR does not exert enough control as it is on their constituent resorts. I would like to see AANR take decisive action to make all their member resorts non-intimidating wholesome family settings.

We can pick and choose what new technology we adopt and what customs from the past we retain. I do not have a blind belief in "Progress", that society will continually grow kinder and more enlightened. It is entirely unnecessary to assume that a return to the best values of old time nudism would bring back racial segregation.
Bob I am not all white myself. I look white, but I have some Asian heritage and you will not get very far trying to persuade me to accept segregation.

And dispite what some of my accusers say, I never said that everyone who has punctured his privates is a pervert. There are some to be sure who simply stumbled into this without realizing the consequences.

I believe that genital piercing clearly orginates from deviant sexual practice, that its widespread acceptance in certain circles is because humans can be like lemmings, stupidly following one another, even to death. And I believe that Riverrat is right on target when he said that these genital piercings visually draw the observer to the part that is pierced. Any art instruction or photography class you take will teach you about focal points in images.

You seem to be fully aware of what old-time nudism was like when you said, "The concept of nudism was more of a "more healthy lifestyle" with morning aerobics, no drinking, smoking, etc."
Isn't that great! I would love to see nudists quit smoking and start taking care of their bodies, and respecting the dignity and beauty of the nude unadorned human body. Piercings simply have no place in Frei Korper Kultur!

Why are people so eager to mutilate their bodies?
I can't imagine what inspires them to endure such pain and the health risks of infection, possibly puncturing the urethra, and rejecting the nude body and pursuing some macabre, scarred visage.
Do they want to frighten people with their ghastly metal spikes? I realize that you have also chosen to avoid this monstrous practice, so my questions are merely rhetorical, not personal.

Again, I can't presume to know everyone's thoughts behind piercing, but if a kid who didn't know the evil symbolism of a swastika, innocently wore one to a synagogue which had holocaust survivors, wouldn't there stil be a powerful emotional impact on those who saw his "innocent" decorations?

GO AWAY

08-06-2003, 11:22 PM

OOO LOOK MOM...MORE TRASH TO THROW INTO THAT FIRE...

SO WARM AND SNUGGLY...

LOL

bertirolioliolo potatolioliololiolo

08-06-2003, 11:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Bob,

I think that AANR does not exert enough control as it is on their constituent resorts. I would like to see AANR take decisive action to make all their member resorts non-intimidating wholesome family settings.

You seem to be fully aware of what old-time nudism was like when you said, "The concept of nudism was more of a "more healthy lifestyle" with morning aerobics, no drinking, smoking, etc."
Isn't that great! I would love to see nudists quit smoking and start taking care of their bodies, and respecting the dignity and beauty of the nude unadorned human body. Piercings simply have no place in Frei Korper Kultur!

but if a kid who didn't know the evil symbolism of a swastika, innocently wore one to a synagogue which had holocaust survivors, wouldn't there stil be a powerful emotional impact on those who saw his "innocent" decorations? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And so the connection is finally made.

Your argument has become garbelled psuedo - empathy.

The pathetic 'Asian' line (come on people, is there a single 'American' on the forum that has pure 'American' blood !! ?? ) and your last paragraph are designed to make it look like you are really just an aware liberal concerned for family values and the protection of others weaker than yourself. By trotting out the swastika symbolism you are trying to cloud the issue.
Old time Nazi -ism more like. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dave M.

08-07-2003, 01:04 AM

SICK!!! SICK!!! SICK!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Bob,

I would have to do some digging, but there have been postings on past INA threads expressing indignation that some clubs ban sexual jewelry. Would these people go so far as to launch some campaign demanding that all AANR resorts should be forced to admit anyone without past legal problems? I hope it doesn't come to that.

I think that AANR does not exert enough control as it is on their constituent resorts. I would like to see AANR take decisive action to make all their member resorts non-intimidating wholesome family settings.

We can pick and choose what new technology we adopt and what customs from the past we retain. I do not have a blind belief in "Progress", that society will continually grow kinder and more enlightened. It is entirely unnecessary to assume that a return to the best values of old time nudism would bring back racial segregation.
Bob I am not all white myself. I look white, but I have some Asian heritage and you will not get very far trying to persuade me to accept segregation.

And dispite what some of my accusers say, I never said that everyone who has punctured his privates is a pervert. There are some to be sure who simply stumbled into this without realizing the consequences.

I believe that genital piercing clearly orginates from deviant sexual practice, that its widespread acceptance in certain circles is because humans can be like lemmings, stupidly following one another, even to death. And I believe that Riverrat is right on target when he said that these genital piercings visually draw the observer to the part that is pierced. Any art instruction or photography class you take will teach you about focal points in images.

You seem to be fully aware of what old-time nudism was like when you said, "The concept of nudism was more of a "more healthy lifestyle" with morning aerobics, no drinking, smoking, etc."
Isn't that great! I would love to see nudists quit smoking and start taking care of their bodies, and respecting the dignity and beauty of the nude unadorned human body. Piercings simply have no place in Frei Korper Kultur!

Why are people so eager to mutilate their bodies?
I can't imagine what inspires them to endure such pain and the health risks of infection, possibly puncturing the urethra, and rejecting the nude body and pursuing some macabre, scarred visage.
Do they want to frighten people with their ghastly metal spikes? I realize that you have also chosen to avoid this monstrous practice, so my questions are merely rhetorical, not personal.

Again, I can't presume to know everyone's thoughts behind piercing, but if a kid who didn't know the evil symbolism of a swastika, innocently wore one to a synagogue which had holocaust survivors, wouldn't there stil be a powerful emotional impact on those who saw his "innocent" decorations? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>SHAME ON YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif HIGHLY OFFENSIVE POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

GO AWAY

08-07-2003, 01:38 AM

what do you expect from someone like him...

he was deprived as a child...now he is mad at the world...

hahahah

HATE US BECAUSE WE ARE ORIGINAL...WELL WE DON'T LIKE YOU EITHER...WE'RE BODY PIERCERS WE ARE BODY PIERCERS...

ROLE CALL..

"CALL ME NIPPLESPIERCED RED"

LOL

nudefather

08-07-2003, 03:19 AM

I have read these posts long enough! I have brought my family to many resorts & camps & most of the great people that my family have met are so much like Trailscout. Religion aside......& also TATTOOS to the wayside.....It is already a known fact that most "Family" resorts or camps do not allow genital piercings...due to children on the grounds.......

What I feel this means is that alot of todays nudist families have already some concern about bringing their children into the lifestyle.

Imagine: These families that finally get the children to agree on getting through the gates, these families have explained to their children that it is ok to be in the nude around others and that the nude body is not shameful. To alot of nudist families this part is really simple...esp...dealing with 5-9 yr olds....

But, these families enter the grounds with the thoughts in their kids heads that being natural is ok and that showing their natural state is ok! (because that is what their parents teached them about nudism) What do nudist parents do when their children get this far & see some male or female with noticable loops, balls, cow rings, hanging from those parts! What do these parents do if their child asks why?

There is a reason why this is not allowed. Please remember, its called "Family Nude Recreation" for a reason......

Does AANR or TNS Read These Posts?
Does Anyone Watch Nudes In The News?
They Were AT A Youth Camp!
"I didn't see anyone jumping in the background yelling, LOOK AT MY COW RING!!"

bertirolioliolo potatolioliololiolo

08-07-2003, 03:28 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nudefather:

What do these parents do if their child asks why?

errrr.... just tell them its's because there are many different kinds people in the world? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

flash

08-07-2003, 03:28 AM

hell im almost sorry i started this post..everyones fighting and arguing..i thought the nude way was complete , unconditional acceptance..i just want to get naked and not have to modify the way i am .by me taking out my jewelry im changing so i can take my clothes off that dosent sound right to me..anyhow its no big deal ...cant we all just get along? everyone get naked give everyone a big hug and lets go grab a cold one! later

nudefather

08-07-2003, 04:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by bertie e. potato:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nudefather:

What do these parents do if their child asks why?

errrr.... just tell them its's because there are many different kinds people in the world? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...I feel todays children know about all kinds of different people...race..color..etc..due to the different national races in todays schools. My children know that there are many different kinds of people & children. But, how do you explain to a young child...or teen that has been brought up with the real teachings of nudist family values (BODY ACCEPTANCE!), That it is ok to do this and feel happy with BODY ACCEPTANCE!.

Right now, I just feel comfortable with my children enjoying nudism and not asking me, the why questions! Thanks to my family resort that does not allow this...its made for a safe nude place for my family.

08-07-2003, 04:26 AM

Piercing has nothing to do with a lack of values. It is just a body decoration like a belly piercing or eyebrow piercing. I'm not sure what horrible thing you think might happen if they see a gp or ask about it.

Do you keep your kids from going into public stores just in case they were to see a nose piercing?

Croydon

08-07-2003, 04:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by flash:
hell im almost sorry i started this post..everyones fighting and arguing..i thought the nude way was complete , unconditional acceptance.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Whoever told you that is a liar. Nudism has never been about "unconditional acceptance". Trailscout (as well as many others) has shown that time and time again in many of his posts. Furthermore, during civil rights days, many nudist venues barred African Americans from entering (read the nude in the news article). Even today, I have heard and read about resorts in south and midwest "discreetly" barring blacks from entering. The one point that has to be remembered that nudists are no different than "textiles". They hold the same views and ignorance.

Croydon

08-07-2003, 04:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nudefather:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by bertie e. potato:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nudefather:

What do these parents do if their child asks why?

errrr.... just tell them its's because there are many different kinds people in the world? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...I feel todays children know about all kinds of different people...race..color..etc..due to the different national races in todays schools. My children know that there are many different kinds of people & children. But, how do you explain to a young child...or teen that has been brought up with the real teachings of nudist family values (BODY ACCEPTANCE!), That it is ok to do this and feel happy with BODY ACCEPTANCE!.

Right now, I just feel comfortable with my children enjoying nudism and not asking me, the why questions! Thanks to my family resort that does not allow this...its made for a safe nude place for my family. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You have just answered your statemenmt. You feel comfortable w/ your children enjoying nudism and not asking YOU, the why questions. The keyword is is YOU. You do not want to be asked these Qs, don't speak for other parents b/c it can be a fact that these parents do not care for the piercings. You state some "family" resorts do not allow piercings, well what resorts? You need to state the facts, not what YOU think is going on.

flash

08-07-2003, 06:26 AM

well croydon im sorry i havent met any nudists with pre concieved prejudices or stereotypes..i guess now i really think about it im sure youre right ..those things probably still do exist it just hasnt crossed my path yet..i would like to think the majority dont have those stereotypes and such.anyhow thats my 2 cents..later shane

theoldman

08-07-2003, 08:53 AM

Over 200 posts on this topic already !! I really think enough is enough. Reason: people coming to this site can well get the wrong idea about the nudist lifestyle. A lot of what's been put up here is not part of "the friendliest people" concept.

How about it? Isn't it time to move on to something else? No one, & I mean NO ONE, is going to change his/her attitude over anything posted here.

GO AWAY

08-07-2003, 09:08 AM

It's a HardKnock Life for us...

It's a hardKnock Life for us...

Instead of treated...WE GET TRICKED

Instead of Kisses...WE GET KICKED...

Too many people are kicking others while they are down...it's bad enough we have the KKK and other prejudice around here...too bad nudist also have to be that way...oh well...

What you people have done and said about others, has already been done to you guys...The jail you have condemned others to, is the jail you will sure ROT in...

There's my 10 cents...My two cents were free..

J

GO AWAY

08-07-2003, 09:10 AM

surely* rot in...

Dave M.

08-07-2003, 09:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
It's a HardKnock Life for us...

It's a hardKnock Life for us...

Instead of treated...WE GET TRICKED

Instead of Kisses...WE GET KICKED...

Too many people are kicking others while they are down...it's bad enough we have the KKK and other prejudice around here...too bad nudist also have to be that way...oh well...

What you people have done and said about others, has already been done to you guys...The jail you have condemned others to, is the jail you will sure ROT in...

There's my 10 cents...My two cents were free..

J <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Just think about it.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Dave M.

08-07-2003, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Dave M.: /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Just think about it /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif -----open your mind to see prejudice and hate are wrong..........think about it........Lets have acceptance and understanding...........

08-07-2003, 01:52 PM

do some digging....give us the links...or is this wishful thinking or selective remembering?

More control....hints of....what does this remind any of you of......we aiming for your idea of perfection to the exclusion of diversity. I do not frequent resorts....and if ts is a walking advertisement of the thinking that pervades such places....i will never be going there.

....growing more kinder and enlightened.....we really don't have to worry about you doing either do we

ts....in this thread and another you have called me a perv...and i know you have also called others pervs. Is your memory that short or that selective?

What proof do you have to support your belief gp "clearly originates from deviant sexual practice...." got proof? btw, I am not a lemming. Know what, gp do not always draw the eye to the piercings.....ie...one day at my local Y a buddy of mine mentioned mine....and asked about...I explained I had had it for several months before he noticed. It was then he told me about one he had. If you were to check out the sites i have recommeded you would learn about the history of gp, and piercings in general. You would also have the opportnity to view some, and see not all are readily visible. It sure would be nice if you would do some research and see for yourself. Is failure to do so an example of a closed mind?

Not even pierced ears....please provide a link so I can do some reading.

I have never seen anyone with spikes in the gentials.....barbells, and rings yes...but spikes no. Puncturing the urethra....again do some research....you will find out exactly how many types of piercings puncture the urethra. Have you ever talked with anyone who has a gp, or pm one of us here who has a gp....or you afraid our pervertedness while rub off on you. Risk of infection...minimal....you ever stepped on a nail.....not much difference pain/care wise. I am speaking from experience....only difference to me....nail not sterile. If one practices good hygiene risk of infection is, in my opinion, minimal. I have 12 total piercings....and have really never had a problem with infection. Wash it, dry it, and keep it clean. Pretty hard to do isn't it? I am sure fellow posters who have gp's can reaffirm this. Pain...have you ever donated blood....the puncture from the needle is about the same. Nothing really bad. Do you know what mutilation is....peircing is not mutilation.....mutilation, according to my dictionary, is "to deprive...of a limb or other essential part." Now, how does a gp deprive me of the use of a limb or other essential part? Guy with a gp is still able to pee. Have you checked out the sites I have recomended....got facts???

I am a member at a Family Y....and use the adut mens locker room. Kids are not supposed to be in there. I have had several kids in the locker room ask me about my gp's. I have looked at the adults with them for some guidance. Each time this has happened the adults have given me the nod to go ahead. The questions don't focus on why....how much did it hurt. The same questions I recieve from adults. How much pain... The questions do not focus on sex...and never have recieved a question about sex with gps. Several folks have asked where I had them done. I tell them I did them myself...but have told them of studios where they can have the work done. I have explained the procedure I followed to pierce myself. I cannot tell you how many folks have asked because I really don't keep track. I am very open and honest with them. You know what....not one has turned away and gotten sick, not one has said it is disguting, not one has said it is perverted and none have called me a name. BTW, a couple of folks who have talked to me about them are ministers. Now, ts read the preceding carefully, I said they are ministers, I did not say they are my ministers, and note I said ministers, not preachers. Know what not one of the ministers has condemned me or called me a perv. You think they might know something about acceptance of all, and seeing the person for what he is.

08-07-2003, 03:15 PM

Hey all, I've been reading these posts and they just keep getting deeper and deeper. But I do have a quick question for all of you.
First off I will say I have my ears pierced but do not have any tattoos, and I don't care one way or the other if you choose to have gp's or tattoos. Not my business or problem. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
So my question is this: Would a vibrating tongue ring be considered sexual pleasure jewelry ? I noticed a display of these tongue rings at the mall one time. Seems to me it wouldn't be for the purpose of giving a tongue pleasure so surely it must be for some other purpose. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Ok, I've said enough.

08-07-2003, 04:23 PM

well...a tongue is not a genital.....so might be hard to derive sexual pleasure from that....I have my tongue pierced...and was not done for sexual purposes. Some of us are very oral....i.e. chew, smoking, eating a lot. I was the latter...I would go through several bags of cinammon, gummi type, bears in an hour...any chewy food. And was putting on weight I did not need. I got it pierced...and now impossible to do the chewy candy stuff....know what I mean. Takes care of oral cravings etc..have something in my mouth....and no one knows unless I tell them.

nudefather

08-07-2003, 04:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Croydon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nudefather:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by bertie e. potato:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nudefather:

What do these parents do if their child asks why?

errrr.... just tell them its's because there are many different kinds people in the world? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...I feel todays children know about all kinds of different people...race..color..etc..due to the different national races in todays schools. My children know that there are many different kinds of people & children. But, how do you explain to a young child...or teen that has been brought up with the real teachings of nudist family values (BODY ACCEPTANCE!), That it is ok to do this and feel happy with BODY ACCEPTANCE!.

Right now, I just feel comfortable with my children enjoying nudism and not asking me, the why questions! Thanks to my family resort that does not allow this...its made for a safe nude place for my family. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You have just answered your statemenmt. You feel comfortable w/ your children enjoying nudism and not asking YOU, the why questions. The keyword is is YOU. You do not want to be asked these Qs, don't speak for other parents b/c it can be a fact that these parents do not care for the piercings. You state some "family" resorts do not allow piercings, well what resorts? You need to state the facts, not what YOU think is going on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Notice alot of people here talk alot about FACTS & more FACTS. Grab a listing of AANR or TNS resorts and start dialing through all the lists of resorts and ask them there policy on genital piercings below the waist..Although AANR & TNS has no policy about this issue, they will both tell you that all most of US resorts have some sort of policy about it (about being below the waist line). All you have to do is call AANR or TNS for yourself and they will tell you the same thing. Once again we are talking about "FAMILY NUDE RECREATION RIGHT?" Why do you think rsorts do this then? Maybe resorts should lift all the rules and policies and just let everybody do what they want...then lets see if we could still call it "FAMILY NUDE RECREATION"

08-07-2003, 05:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mj:
well...a tongue is not a genital.....so might be hard to derive sexual pleasure from that....I have my tongue pierced...and was not done for sexual purposes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I get what you are saying ...but back to my question.
So my question is this: Would a vibrating tongue ring be considered sexual pleasure jewelry ?

08-07-2003, 06:48 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nudefather:
Notice alot of people here talk alot about FACTS & more FACTS. Grab a listing of AANR or TNS resorts and start dialing through all the lists of resorts and ask them there policy on genital piercings below the waist..Although AANR & TNS has no policy about this issue, they will both tell you that all most of US resorts have some sort of policy about it (about being below the waist line). All you have to do is call AANR or TNS for yourself and they will tell you the same thing. Once again we are talking about "FAMILY NUDE RECREATION RIGHT?" Why do you think rsorts do this then? Maybe resorts should lift all the rules and policies and just let everybody do what they want...then lets see if we could still call it "FAMILY NUDE RECREATION" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We are going around in circles now... please, this is the third time the same premise has been brought up and here I go answering it for the third time. I suggest you read the entire thread before causing us to repeat ourselves again.

That our resorts are for "family recreation" has no bearing on genital piercings. I don't see a tie of one to the other at all but anyway....

You are looking at piercing policies in a static way by looking at current policies of our clubs. If you were to look at those policies over the last ten years or so you'd find that the clubs are slowly loosening up to allow more and more piercings in more and more places. Many used to ban nipple piercing but most have done away with that. Some that allow genital piercing didn't allow it ten years ago. Ten years from now most clubs will probably allow them and it won't be an issue. Time allows fashions to change and become more acceptable.

nudefather

08-07-2003, 11:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nudefather:
Notice alot of people here talk alot about FACTS & more FACTS. Grab a listing of AANR or TNS resorts and start dialing through all the lists of resorts and ask them there policy on genital piercings below the waist..Although AANR & TNS has no policy about this issue, they will both tell you that all most of US resorts have some sort of policy about it (about being below the waist line). All you have to do is call AANR or TNS for yourself and they will tell you the same thing. Once again we are talking about "FAMILY NUDE RECREATION RIGHT?" Why do you think rsorts do this then? Maybe resorts should lift all the rules and policies and just let everybody do what they want...then lets see if we could still call it "FAMILY NUDE RECREATION" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We are going around in circles now... please, this is the third time the same premise has been brought up and here I go answering it for the third time. I suggest you read the entire thread before causing us to repeat ourselves again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't even recall that I was talking to you. Did I ask you to reply to my post? Did I ask you anything? This is like my 2nd day here and already someone is telling me what to do....

That our resorts are for "family recreation" has no bearing on genital piercings. I don't see a tie of one to the other at all but anyway....[/QB][/QUOTE]

I am sorry......

You are looking at piercing policies in a static way by looking at current policies of our clubs. If you were to look at those policies over the last ten years or so you'd find that the clubs are slowly loosening up to allow more and more piercings in more and more places. Many used to ban nipple piercing but most have done away with that. Some that allow genital piercing didn't allow it ten years ago. Ten years from now most clubs will probably allow them and it won't be an issue. Time allows fashions to change and become more acceptable. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Good point you make...just hope by then children are still allowed as well. By the way, I am now talking to you! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

08-08-2003, 06:48 AM

Gosh isn't someone touchy. When you post in a public forum you should expect, and be ready for, anyone to read and respond. After all it is a forum isn't it. Let's grow up and not be so testy.......

08-08-2003, 09:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nudefather:
I don't even recall that I was talking to you. Did I ask you to reply to my post? Did I ask you anything? This is like my 2nd day here and already someone is telling me what to do.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This is a public board. The idea of a public board is that anyone can join in the discussion. I'm so sorry you don't understand this but it isn't my job to teach you how to participate on messageboards.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Good point you make...just hope by then children are still allowed as well. By the way, I am now talking to you! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Children are most certainly allowed at resorts that allow piercings now. There is no reason they shouldn't be.

And by the way, anything you post here I can and will respond to.

Jeff Samuel

08-08-2003, 10:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Bob,

5. One core tenet of nudism throughout its history has been affirmation of the unadorned, nude body.

6. Photodocumentation of nudism over the years shows that this tenet was uniformly observed. Literally thousands of nude photos exist over many decades in which no piercing or shaving can be found. To keep our promises to the admins, let's limit our discussion to the piercing issue on this particular thread.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>BRAVO!

Trailscout has articulated the core of the issue well.

There is nothing natural about piercing, so it has nothing do do with traditional naturism. Naturism has been hijacked by frauds who are ashamed of their unadorned bodies and must add to (piercing) or take away (genital shaving--not the core of this thread, I know) from what God gave them.

To borrow a phrase often used by non-Christian naturists:
If God had wanted man to go nude, he would have been born that way.

Now apply it to this thread:
If God had wanted people to pierce themselves, then they would have been born with hardware attached.

Frank R

08-08-2003, 01:40 PM

I believe most, if not all of us, would like for non-nudist to accept us just as we are. May I again suggest that we should make every effort to get along with everyone here. Not to say we can not or should not disagree but let's at least do it in a polite and respectful manner.

If we cannot accept each other for what we are, why should we expect any one else to accept us?

08-08-2003, 02:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Frank R:
I believe most, if not all of us, would like for non-nudist to accept us just as we are. May I again suggest that we should make every effort to get along with everyone here. Not to say we can not or should not disagree but let's at least do it in a polite and respectful manner.
If we cannot accept each other for what we are, why should we expect any one else to accept us? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well said Frank R....very well said! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bob S.

08-08-2003, 11:06 PM

Trailscout, nobody here says that all nudist parks have to allow anyone in. We have, to the best of my knowledge and memory (at least I) not said that nudist parks cannot create any rules they want. If they want to only admit nudists named Jane or John, that is fine. If they want to admit only those over 65 years of age, more power to them. The thing we are arguing is the rule itself, and the attitudes behind the rule and thinking. Actually, it is you and others who have been arguing that nudist parks should change their rules to disallow piercings.

As fot the photogenic history of American naturism, lets really look at it. No or very few African Americans, hirsute women, really bad haircuts, etc. Compared to today, I really see no big difference save for the decorations on the body, which can either be gaudy or great looking. When deciding whether sexual reasons were involved in the decision, I watch the people, look at their behaviour, find out the old-fashionde way and do not just make rash assumptions. And if someone's piercing looks sexual to you, that is really your problem. If someone uses that piercing to make sexual overtures, that becomes a problem for them.

And you know what, I do not know why anyone would want to put a hole anywhere so sensitive. But that's just me. If someone else wants to do that, more power (and pain) to them.

For your swastika example, the swastica is a symbol of extreme hatred and represents the murder of millions of Jewish people in an attempt at genocide. A genital piercing camnnot cause that kind of reaction in anyone.

As for the "Family Nudism" term, piercings have nothing to do with family nudism. There may be families where a parent has a piercing or two.

nudefather, when your child asks you why, you answer them with your own beliefs. Here is a good why question, why would you want to alter society just so you don't have to answer your children's questions? I remember when a father brought his young daughter to a local art exhibition here down at the Oceanfront. There was a painting of a naked man and the young girl asked her father what was in the picture. The father became embarrassed and enraged that his daughter had to ask such a question!

If you cannot answer your children's simple questions now, then you are not going to make a good parent when they are going through puberty. Dad, what's marijuana? Dad, why can't I get an earrring? Dad, is there a G*d? Dad, what really happens to us when we die? It will only get harder as they age. You need to lead by example, be honest when your children ask questions, and impart upon them your own value system and beliefs. Don't ever tell others that they must alter their behaviour to accomodate everything you believe in because of your kids. That will be harmful for them in that you would be sheltering them too much (this is more for the teen set) and make them spoiled in that they will think they are the center of the world.

Bob S.

Trailscout

08-09-2003, 03:24 AM

Bob,

I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I may not see everything your way, but you have contributed much to this discussion.

Piercing below the waist is a fad in some areas. It is not an innate human characteristic like being male, Asian or single.

Because it is contrary to core nudist values, we have to take a firm stand against it. A laissez faire policy is simply wrong. The piercing fad is strongly akin to the increasing practice of nudists wearing clothes when they are not necessary. People who are new to nudism need some guidance and they get that from resort policies.
Because we affirm the nude body, we require nudity in the pool area, etc...

Bob, you don't have to wait for behavior to emerge before you take action, piercing is a behavior. If genital jewelry didn't draw the eye to the genitals people would not wear it in great numbers in social settings. Nudists do not ignore the genitals, but they don't make that area a focal point. We seek to integrate all parts of our bodies into a harmonious whole. And of course you may not be sheepishly following every whim of fashion, but a lot of people do, especially those new to nudism and looking for direction on what it is all about.

Bob, I don't think either one of us are asserting that nudism is largely unchanged from the old days except for a few "decorations".
Old fashioned nudism is alive and well, but there are far too many people who think nudism is about self-indulgence and some vague notion of acceptance. Acceptance, should not mean that the leaders of organized nudism cannot have goals, set examples and have rules. We accept the goodness of the nude unadorned human body in all its physical diversity and we will strive to maintain nudist venues as egalitarian societies for people of a wide variety of viewpoints.

Also please remember my argument is not about promoting my newly minted definition of nudism, but my promotion of what nudism has always stood for.

I have no vested interest in whether people pierce themselves. I merely harbor a private sense of regret that they feel some compulsion to do so. This whole thing becomes an issue when resorts decide that they don't want this sort of thing in their midst or when a forum to introduce people to nude recreation embarks on one-sided advocacy of putting holes in a perfectly good nude body.

I am the great grandson of a European Jew and I am careful to avoid invoking the horrors of Nazi symbols without due cause. I must respectfully disagree with you on this point and assert that genital piercings have very evil symbolism that strike against the very core of some of our most cherished values, and even the very notion of body acceptance whether the wearer fully comprehends it or not. And no, it does not represent the full depravity of the swastika, but it is still a very evil hideous thing.

Croydon

08-09-2003, 07:23 AM

As I sit here and read all the messages, esp. ones by Trailscout, I am unable to figure how someone can be so closed minded and ignorant AND NOT EVEN KNOW IT. Reading Trail's messages, all I can picture is him standing in front of the church along with Jerry Fawell's after Matthew Shepard's funeral yelling "God Hate ***s" or at a white power rally or some other extreme organization.

What is sad is time after time, many here have made excellent points that clearly refutes and show flaws in Trailscouts ignorant beliefs but he doesn't seem to take a moment and investigate or think about his flaws; just dismiss the other commenst as false and untrue and yours as correct. Psychology shows that when people have a deep belief, they like to hold onto them. If they come across information that shows the flaws in their belief, they quickly dismiss that information because they can not handle the embrassment, dissapointment of knowing their beliefs are false.

Back to the issue of piercings. I personally do not understand why anyone would pierce their genitals but if they do, that is their prerogative. By no means are these people deviants, immoral, or evil as trailscout has labeled them. Like everyone else, they are entitled to respect and to quickly make an assumption about their character before getting to know them shows a pure IGNORANCE on your half Trailscout. You call yourself Christian but through your views, I don't see anything Christian about you. As my uncle who is a pastor (and has and earing and tattoo and NOT gay) says "Christians are to let others live. We make decisions and choices but it is not up to OTHERS to judge but for God to. As a Christian, all you have to do is LOVE, RESPECT, and UNDERSTAND your fellow brothers and sisters."

You say we should return to the way nudism used to be as you have seen in old pictures. Have you actually done some research on nudism back in the old days? If you say we should return to nudism used to be then I guess African Americans and minorities should be banned, as well as women and fat people. In the old days, the idea of black nudists was pretty much unheard of because many were banned from resorts and beaches. In those pictures, I am sure you have NEVER seen a black person. Women too would be banned. From the 30s on, a woman being nude/nudist was socially unacceptable; that would have been immoral and unthinkable. Up until the 60s and 70s, women had to be fully dressed at the beach. Fat people too would not be welcome b/c nudism then was very much about physical health. I am sure in the many pictures the men were quite toned and had great bodies. So Trailscout, a picture doesn't tell the whole story and sometimes a picture is JUST A PICTURE.

I feel nothing but pity and sadness for you Trail. As long as your harbor those closed minded beliefs of yours, you will only do yourself a disservice by closing yourself to new ideas, thoughts, and especially PEOPLE.

Dave M.

08-09-2003, 07:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Croydon:
As I sit here and read all the messages, esp. ones by Trailscout, I am unable to figure how someone can be so closed minded and ignorant AND NOT EVEN KNOW IT. Reading Trail's messages, all I can picture is him standing in front of the church along with Jerry Fawell's after Matthew Shepard's funeral yelling "God Hate ***s" or at a white power rally or some other extreme organization.

What is sad is time after time, many here have made excellent points that clearly refutes and show flaws in Trailscouts ignorant beliefs but he doesn't seem to take a moment and investigate or think about his flaws; just dismiss the other commenst as false and untrue and yours as correct. Psychology shows that when people have a deep belief, they like to hold onto them. If they come across information that shows the flaws in their belief, they quickly dismiss that information because they can not handle the embrassment, dissapointment of knowing their beliefs are false.

Back to the issue of piercings. I personally do not understand why anyone would pierce their genitals but if they do, that is their prerogative. By no means are these people deviants, immoral, or evil as trailscout has labeled them. Like everyone else, they are entitled to respect and to quickly make an assumption about their character before getting to know them shows a pure IGNORANCE on your half Trailscout. You call yourself Christian but through your views, I don't see anything Christian about you. As my uncle who is a pastor (and has and earing and tattoo and NOT gay) says "Christians are to let others live. We make decisions and choices but it is not up to OTHERS to judge but for God to. As a Christian, all you have to do is LOVE, RESPECT, and UNDERSTAND your fellow brothers and sisters."

You say we should return to the way nudism used to be as you have seen in old pictures. Have you actually done some research on nudism back in the old days? If you say we should return to nudism used to be then I guess African Americans and minorities should be banned, as well as women and fat people. In the old days, the idea of black nudists was pretty much unheard of because many were banned from resorts and beaches. In those pictures, I am sure you have NEVER seen a black person. Women too would be banned. From the 30s on, a woman being nude/nudist was socially unacceptable; that would have been immoral and unthinkable. Up until the 60s and 70s, women had to be fully dressed at the beach. Fat people too would not be welcome b/c nudism then was very much about physical health. I am sure in the many pictures the men were quite toned and had great bodies. So Trailscout, a picture doesn't tell the whole story and sometimes a picture is JUST A PICTURE.

I feel nothing but pity and sadness for you Trail. As long as your harbor those closed minded beliefs of yours, you will only do yourself a disservice by closing yourself to new ideas, thoughts, and especially PEOPLE. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well put Croydon.....very well put!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Dave M.

08-09-2003, 08:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Bob

I am the great grandson of a European Jew and I am careful to avoid invoking the horrors of Nazi symbols without due cause. I must respectfully disagree with you on this point and assert that genital piercings have very evil symbolism that strike against the very core of some of our most cherished values, and even the very notion of body acceptance whether the wearer fully comprehends it or not. And no, it does not represent the full depravity of the swastika, but it is still a very evil hideous thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>IS PIERCING REALLY "DUE CAUSE" After all piercing is just HARMLESS body decoration(s)despite what you may say.!! Nor does it strike at body acceptance.!! Piercing a beautiful thing!! The only thing evil and hideous is you(Trailscout) invoking Nazi symbols and reminding people of there horrors...and over something so trivial as..piercing....now thats a travesty!!!

greyhair

08-09-2003, 03:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RIVERRAT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by greyhair:
While you are are entitled to find genital piercing repundiant and replusive that is your your opinion and I respect it! I'm dismayed that you see anyone with a genital piercicing as a sexual prevert or exhitionist or a wack-job.I'm none of the above!! Nor are the people I know who are "pierced" I find we are normal resonsible people. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If you look I'm sure you will find the same!!!!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ---Normal resonsible people who just happen to have a genital piercing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>BULLS--T <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So 'rat, are you saying that the poster is a pervert because he wears a piercing? Do you have knowledge that he is a pervert, or are you basing your claim simply on the fact that he wears a piercing? If a pervert removes his ring, does that make him a non-pervert?

BTW, if you come to Lilly Valley, or any other Canadian club, you will find that many people wear piercings, including my wife.

Oh, and here is something else to consider...
there is a word for people who spend their time staring at other people's genitalia. It's called a gawker. [/QB][/QUOTE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> The whole perpose of this gem is to draw attention to the place where it is, if that is to draw attention to his or her genitals then that is obscene, you figure it out, if I want you to notice a certain part of my body why not make it more obvious, hence low cut gowns and bikini cuts,come on, a nudist resort with young people around shouldn,t have to be directed to the genitals by advertising. Use your head instead of whatever. I mean the head at the top of your body. You figure it out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Incoherent response as per your usual, 'rat.

Funny thing, our club celebrated its 40th anniversary on August 2, and no one among the past-members and current members that attended had any complaints or comments on the many tattoos and piercings worn by the members. There was even a display of body jewelry with a piercer present to do piercings at the club. Three nipples piercings were performed and numerous people purchased jewelry. And!!! I know you will find this hard to believe, but no one... Not a single person became sexually aroused or tormented by the sight of this jewelry. Instead, the people there (at this place, called by your buddy Trailscout, "a sex-club") enjoyed pony and horse rides, water balloon tosses, badminton, trail hikes, swimming and other activities. Could it be that you and the other Prudists are wrong, and that people with piercings enjoy the same wholesome activities as "True Nudists" do?

greyhair

08-09-2003, 03:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
[QB] Bob,

[QUOTE]And dispite what some of my accusers say, I never said that everyone who has punctured his privates is a pervert. There are some to be sure who simply stumbled into this without realizing the consequences. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now he hedges his words.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
I believe that genital piercing clearly orginates from deviant sexual practice, that its widespread acceptance in certain circles is because humans can be like lemmings, stupidly following one another, even to death. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Could you try and post proof rather than a lame "I believe..."

Let's see.... piercings have been around in many cultures for 1000's of years. Prove that all those cultures were sexually deviant. Please explain what you consider deviant.

greyhair

08-09-2003, 03:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nudefather:
Notice alot of people here talk alot about FACTS & more FACTS. Grab a listing of AANR or TNS resorts and start dialing through all the lists of resorts and ask them there policy on genital piercings below the waist..Although AANR & TNS has no policy about this issue, they will both tell you that all most of US resorts have some sort of policy about it (about being below the waist line). All you have to do is call AANR or TNS for yourself and they will tell you the same thing. Once again we are talking about "FAMILY NUDE RECREATION RIGHT?" Why do you think rsorts do this then? Maybe resorts should lift all the rules and policies and just let everybody do what they want...then lets see if we could still call it "FAMILY NUDE RECREATION" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good for the Uptight States of America. But if you notice, the world extends past the borders of your country, and many more nudists exist beyond those borders. Those nudists don't seem to get their panties in a knot over piercings. And many of those clubs outside the borders of the USA are very family oriented. Could it be a cultural thing? That there exists in the US a very narrow-minded view of anything that varies from the "norm"?

greyhair

08-09-2003, 03:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
And no, it does not represent the full depravity of the swastika, but it is still a very evil hideous thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, your blind bigotry is a very evil hideous thing. Too bad you don't have the guts to prove your statements, or to respond to anyone after they call you on your slanderous statements about people you have never met. You like to toss the word moral around, but you act in the most immoral fashion. That is typical, I have found, amongst the devotees of a fictional deity. You and your campfollowers tote around your biases, bigotry and hatred and rather than defend it, excuse your own behaviour by ascribing it to the teachings of some fictional deity.

FLslimguy

08-09-2003, 06:45 PM

I don't find any bigotry here... just opinions. Varied and interesting. I think people should do whatever they wish...and others be less politically sensitive. We all enjoy nudity here (I presume), and the differences in us all make it interesting. In fact, they make it wonderful. I don't get upset if someone is pierced, or fat, or erect, or shaved....just amused at the variety that one species can exhibit.

Bob S.

08-09-2003, 10:01 PM

This will be my last comment on GPs here on this thread. I am tiring of the topic. But before I go, I am going to make some final comments.

Trailscout, piercing is contrary to your core nudist values, not everyone's, and not even the organizations (although I have never asked. If you want to ask them, feel free and post their reply here). My core nudist values have to do with behaviour. How people treat others and me and how they treat others and me. Actually, that is part of my core values, nudism or not. I look past how others look, and that includes clothes, tattoos, and piercings (unless the tats or clothing are in bad taste).

Piercings are not behaviour. I remember arguing about whether nudity was a behaviour. Nudity is simply a state of dress, piercings are just jewelry sticking out of holes in the body. Getting pierced is a behaviour, having them is not. And you are singling out genital piercings over all others. People get nipple rings, tongue rings, nose rings, earrings, and many other body rings. People not used to seeing body rings may look at them for a bit longer than others who are used to it, but soon, the piercings just become a part of the body. Just like when new nudists have their first social nudist experience. They may be overwhelmed seeing all of the naked bodies, but soon, the newbie becomes acclimated and the nudity is old news.

Actually, the problems occur when people who are totally against piercings go to places where the type of thing is permissable. When the reverse is in effect, the pierced person just accepts the rules and either leaves or removes the piercing. And we are not telling people to pierce themselves, we are answering questions saying that if one wants one, then that person can get one. And this whole thread was started when flash asked why genital piercing was frowned upon. The whole first page was either helpful or just humorous.

Now how a GP can have evil symbolism is something that only you will understand. For me, it is a GP. Again, I use behaviour as my determining factor in judging people.

And actually, this topic should be put to rest now. I know for me, it is.

Bob S.

nudefather

08-10-2003, 01:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nudefather:
I don't even recall that I was talking to you. Did I ask you to reply to my post? Did I ask you anything? This is like my 2nd day here and already someone is telling me what to do.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This is a public board. The idea of a public board is that anyone can join in the discussion. I'm so sorry you don't understand this but it isn't my job to teach you how to participate on messageboards.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Good point you make...just hope by then children are still allowed as well. By the way, I am now talking to you! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Children are most certainly allowed at resorts that allow piercings now. There is no reason they shouldn't be.

And by the way, anything you post here I can and will respond to. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well good for you!! I am so glad you you feel like you have so much power here....just don't complain when you start typing on your keyboard to posts that were not even to you......by the way..who are you?? I am new here, but yet, people tell me to ingnore you.....

Post what you want to me I guess..just don't complain about it lady.....FOR REAL....GET REAL!

nudefather

08-10-2003, 02:24 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by greyhair:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nudefather:
Notice alot of people here talk alot about FACTS & more FACTS. Grab a listing of AANR or TNS resorts and start dialing through all the lists of resorts and ask them there policy on genital piercings below the waist..Although AANR & TNS has no policy about this issue, they will both tell you that all most of US resorts have some sort of policy about it (about being below the waist line). All you have to do is call AANR or TNS for yourself and they will tell you the same thing. Once again we are talking about "FAMILY NUDE RECREATION RIGHT?" Why do you think rsorts do this then? Maybe resorts should lift all the rules and policies and just let everybody do what they want...then lets see if we could still call it "FAMILY NUDE RECREATION" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good for the Uptight States of America. But if you notice, the world extends past the borders of your country, and many more nudists exist beyond those borders. Those nudists don't seem to get their panties in a knot over piercings. And many of those clubs outside the borders of the USA are very family oriented. Could it be a cultural thing? That there exists in the US a very narrow-minded view of anything that varies from the "norm"?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>To quote Adam Sandler in "Anger Management" this is why I am glad to be AMERICAN! You can state your opinions here just like I can...the only difference is you have stated on the net where you bring your children......I have not....I know you post somewhere else on the net......Ever Heard Of HAIRDYE! You Can Get It @ Wal-Mart! Have you ever noticed on this board that the logged in users is always lower than the roamers......why is this!