Religious issues and nudity

[Aaron Adams]

If you have read my posts from early last month you know I have some issues related to nudity and nudism i am dealing with. I have thouroughly studied what the Bible says on the subject of nudity, read more information about nudism than most nonnudists, read what various websites, mostly nudist sites, have to say with respect to whether or not nudity is sinful and have still been unable to resolve my issues related to religion and nudity. The purpose of this topic is to see how some of you have resolved the issues I am dealing with in the hope that it knowing how you dealt with these issues will help me deal with them. I am a Christian and would prefer responses from Christians.

The first question is how the impression that most of the verses in the Bible seem to cast nudity in a bad light and that those verses which are pro nudity only seem not to be emphatically so can be reconclied with nudism.

[Aaron Adams]

If you have read my posts from early last month you know I have some issues related to nudity and nudism i am dealing with. I have thouroughly studied what the Bible says on the subject of nudity, read more information about nudism than most nonnudists, read what various websites, mostly nudist sites, have to say with respect to whether or not nudity is sinful and have still been unable to resolve my issues related to religion and nudity. The purpose of this topic is to see how some of you have resolved the issues I am dealing with in the hope that it knowing how you dealt with these issues will help me deal with them. I am a Christian and would prefer responses from Christians.

The first question is how the impression that most of the verses in the Bible seem to cast nudity in a bad light and that those verses which are pro nudity only seem not to be emphatically so can be reconclied with nudism.

[Vin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron Adams:
...I have thouroughly studied what the Bible says on the subject of nudity, read more information about nudism than most nonnudists, read what various websites, mostly nudist sites, have to say with respect to whether or not nudity is sinful and have still been unable to resolve my issues related to religion and nudity.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>First, I'm not Christian. But I'm at least passingly (is that even a word?) familiar with the Bible. What are some of the passages that you think condemn nudity? Which support it?

Vin

[Aaron Adams]

There are several passages which describe God metaphorically stripping Isael naked before her enemies because of Israel's disobedience. Although these passages don't explicitly say nudity is bad being violently stripped of your clothing before a crowd of perverted men, which is about the Biblical picture in these passages, doesn't convey the most positive view of nudity. On the positive side of the nudity issue God once commanded the prophet Isaiah to walk around naked for three years. This is problematic for two main reasons. The word used for naked in the passage, Isaiah chapter 26 if you're interested, can refer to either partial or total nudity. The context suggests total nudity. The other problem is that in other parts of the Bible God commands people to do things that otherwise would be horrible, namely commanding people to kill a group of people. Nudity and murder are of course quite different but the analogy illustrates for me the difficulty in drawing conclusions about nudity from Isaiah's experiences.

[Vin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron Adams:
There are several passages which describe God metaphorically stripping Isael naked before her enemies because of Israel's disobedience. Although these passages don't explicitly say nudity is bad being violently stripped of your clothing before a crowd of perverted men, which is about the Biblical picture in these passages, doesn't convey the most positive view of nudity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But what are some of those specific passages? This may be simply a question of considering alternate interpretations, but that's hard to judge without knowing exactly what we're talking about.

Is the stripping metaphorical or literal? If it's metaphorical, what does the "crowd of perverted men" (whatever that means) have to do with it? Also, keep in mind that a thing may sometimes seem unpleasant at the time, but it's actually a way to build strength of character (ie. requiring someone to apologize for wronging another; using your analogy, that wouldn't convey the most positive view of apologies).

If it makes any difference to your dilemma, I have a Christian friend who believes that the OT is a useful historical document, but that it doesn't apply anymore. Using that reasoning, you'd need to find a NT scripture that forbids nudity in order to be concerned. (And personally, I'd want it to be a more reliable source than Paul, perhaps a source that at least quotes those who actually knew Jesus. But that's just me. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

Vin

[Bob S.]

Aaron, think of the Bible as the Word of G*d as interpreted by Man. We are not going to get it straight all the time, especially with each translation. It is kind of like the game of telephone. One person tells another person a sentence, that person tells the next person what he heard, who tells the next person what he heard until by the time it gets to the last person, the sentence is usually messed up.

But with the Bible, we not only have different imperfect translations but also different agendas for some translations. Back in the early part of the last millenium, the church wielded immense power over both the citizenry and the government. So whatever they wanted to preach to the people, they could translate the Bible in such a way that it could be made possible to preach that. (yes, men do pervert the Word of G*d).

I wish you luck on your spiritual quest. But realize that finding religion is very personal. Your own relationship with G*d is what should be the driving force, not the words of others. You need to decide if nudity fits in with your spiritual relationship.

Bob S.

[Trailscout]

Aaron,

I am a Bible-believing Christian and a nudist. Before I came to accept social nudity, I had to look at the Bible verses that describe situations where nudity occurs and take a look at what God was saying through the story.

Try to keep the big picture in mind. When the Bible describes two perfect people living in a perfect place in perfect harmony with God, they were completely nude and it was good and sufficient.

When these perfect people sinned, they had a spiritual problem, but in their disturbed mental state, they tried to find a physical solution to a spiritual problem (wearing fig leaves).

Here's the controversial part: God did clothe Adam and Eve and this is where a lot of fundamentalists get off-track and say, "See there, God clothed us to cover our sins". Well, that's a wrong assumption.

Here's another way of looking at it:
From then on, sin required a blood sacrifice until Jesus the Messiah died in our place. However, God never said that we had to wear the skins of the animals that were sacrificed. After Jesus' death, we don't sacrifice animals anyway. There is no command in the Bible to wear leather. There is no commmand in the Bible to wear fig leaves or anything.

There are a few other Bible verses that need explaining in context, but if you will keep in mind that the climate of the Holy Land is not always a warm paradise like Eden was. People had to wear clothes much of the time, so some of the Biblical commandments reflect that reality. If you were too poor to afford clothes, your poverty was shameful (in the minds of the proud), but your nudity was not regarded as sinful.

There are several good Christian nudist Web sites out there, but one of the best Web pages to explain some of these issues is:
Boyd Allen's Web page (http://www.geocities.com/boydallen/)

I can also recommend a newsletter called . Fig Leaf Forum (http://www.figleafforum.com/) ; they discuss the biblical issues regarding nudity in depth.

The Web link will give you subscription information.

[George SoCal]

Here's a link you might find useful:

http://www.tekline.co.uk/natjesus.htm

Nudity is often used in the bible as a reminder of shame in the Garden of Eden. But the nudity is not the cause of the shame (since God created Adam and Eve naked and it was good). The shame was because of sinning, not being naked. Man, through Adam and Eve, made nakedness shameful, but in no way has God ever thought it as shameful or sinful nor has he ever commanded us to wear clothes. Shame is the domain of the serpent, this is his contribution!

Aside from the issue of the letting blood to provide skins that was redeemed through the Christ, God, in his mercy, was preparing them for life outside the Garden of Eden. No longer perfect temperature, thistles and thorns, life outside the Garden was going to be a lot tougher. But this act of love should not be confused as a commandment to wear clothes, but merely added protection against the elements and environment.

[William72]

This is a really good question, one I spent about a year answering for myself. Here are three things that figured prominently in my final decision.

Adam and Eve were created nude (Genesis 2:25). They did not commit the first sin until later (Genesis 3:1-24). Therefore, nudity cannot be sinful in and of itself.

God commanded the prophet Isaiah to wear no clothes for three years (Isaiah 20:1-6). According to Boyd Allen, the same word (Arom) is used for Adam and Eve's nudity prior to sin and for Isaiah's three years; "stripped and barefoot" seems to me to be describing total nudity. Elsewhere we are told that God does not tempt anyone to sin (James 1:13). Again we conclude that nudity cannot be sinful in and of itself.

Historical sources are clear that the Roman empire frequently used cruxification and that the person was naked during that process. This means that Jesus was almost certainly naked when He was put on the cross. We are told that his outer garment was torn in pieces and divided amongst the soldiers who performed the cruxification (John 19:23). They gambled for His undergarment (John 19:24). So Jesus was almost certainly naked on the cross. We know that Jesus was sinless (2 Corinthians 5:21). Again we conclude that nudity cannot be sinful in and of itself.

As you can see, we can find a wide range of scripture from throughout the Bible that shows nudity is not sinful. What you choose to do with nudity could be sinful. Unfortunately, humans have found a way to pervert every good thing given to us my God. But nudity as the vast majority of nudists practice it is not contrary to the Bible and is consistent with being a Christian.

Cheers

[Aaron Adams]

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far. Part of the problem is that although I know what the Bible says about nudity, specifically that it doesn't condemn it as sin anywhere, but it is hard to psychologically overcome the prevailing notion that nudity is bad. The prevailing view of nudty among many Christains makes it hard to get a clear idea of what the Bible actually says on the subject.

[Trailscout]

Aaron,

Most Christians do not say that nudity is bad, because that would be like saying that God deliberately made an evil thing. I think a better way of describing the attitude is that many of them feel that nudity is a source of temptation to sexual sin. And even this gets restricted to mixed gender nudity among people who are not married to each other.

It is easy to see why someone who didn't know about social nudism would assume that such nudity is bad. After all, parents often tell their daughters not to go out of the house wearing short-shorts and halter tops so the fellows won't assume that they are "easy". Many nudists tell their daughters the same thing! We have to be aware of the assumptions of the culture we inhabit.

When we watch television shows, when we see naked people, it is usually in the context of some sexual situation.

Porn magazines have photographs of naked women in sexual poses.

So if that's all you know, yeah I can see why Christian folks condemn nudity.

But that's not all there is to this and I think you know it. Social nudism creates a special environment for people to enjoy being the way God originally intended for us (nude) but in a wholesome context.

[NuTex]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Part of the problem is that although I know what the Bible says about nudity, specifically that it doesn't condemn it as sin anywhere, but it is hard to psychologically overcome the prevailing notion that nudity is bad. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Aaron, this is good self-knowlesdge on your part. I think many people experiance this sort feeling anytime they start to challenge how they were raised. It makes it more difficult when the person is going against the grain of the majority. Imagine how the first Christians must have felt?

I highly recommend being involved in the various Christian Naturist boards and forums. One very good one is The Fig Leaf Forum
web page (http://www.figleafforum.com/)
I've read this since it was brand new and I have all of the issues. I've also written several articles and letters for it. I highly recommend this.

You can also try a Yahoo group. A simple search turned up the following.
Nudist Christian (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nudist_Christian/)
(Note: I just found this Yahoo group and I just applied for membership,which is still pending. I can't vouch for it the way I can Fig Leaf Forum)

But ultimatly you will have to decide for yourself how you feel about participating in naturism. I recommend that you continue researching and talking to other Christian Naturists. And lots of prayer for guidance.

When all is said and done it's between you and God. No one else can decide for you.

If I can be of any help feel free to PM me.

God bless,
NuTex

[Vin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron Adams:
...I know what the Bible says about nudity, specifically that it doesn't condemn it as sin anywhere, but it is hard to psychologically overcome the prevailing notion that nudity is bad.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think you just answered your own question. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now, if the question was really "How do Christian nudists deal with other Christians' reactions to their nudity?" that's another kettle of fish.

Good luck. Spirituality is sometimes hard, but I think it's usually worth the work.

Vin

[Ben_m]

Aaron,

If you aren't already aware of it, another potentially helpful site is Naturist Life International (http://naturistlife.com/). Although the site itself isn't all that great, necesarily, I don't think, their words, philosophy, and the material that they publish is. And, essentially all of it is done from a religious/Christian perspective. It has certainly helped me to reconcile exactly what you're describing. Although, exactly how to relate to other religious individuals about the subject is often a bit more tricky. But, for myself, and within myself, the issue is resolved. Nudity, in the right context, and in and of itself is not a bad thing, in fact, I think it can be a very good thing.

There is also Naturist Christians.

[TJ Naturist]

Hi Aaron,

Another excellent site that I would recommend is http://www.rejectshame.com/. It is a great Christian-oriented site with excellent articles about nudity from a Biblical perspective. Another well-written (although long) article can be found at http://www.naturists.com/fig/. This article is written by the same person who does the rejectshame.com site.

~TJ

[Aaron Adams]

Thank you to everyone who has posted. Your comments and suggestions of links have been helpful. My issues are not fully resolved yet but I think I am headed in that direction.

[nudebynature]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron Adams:
If you have read my posts from early last month you know I have some issues related to nudity and nudism i am dealing with. I have thouroughly studied what the Bible says on the subject of nudity, read more information about nudism than most nonnudists, read what various websites, mostly nudist sites, have to say with respect to whether or not nudity is sinful and have still been unable to resolve my issues related to religion and nudity. The purpose of this topic is to see how some of you have resolved the issues I am dealing with in the hope that it knowing how you dealt with these issues will help me deal with them. I am a Christian and would prefer responses from Christians.

The first question is how the impression that most of the verses in the Bible seem to cast nudity in a bad light and that those verses which are pro nudity only seem not to be emphatically so can be reconclied with nudism. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If you are looking for a rule, you won't find one, either for or against. As Christians, we are no longer under the law, so it doesn't really matter. We live by the Spirit and have to follow His leading.

The Bible urges us to be discerning when we come across something that is not clearly prohibited.

First off, nudity is not sinful. It can lead us into sin, but it is not sinful in itself. We know that because God asked Isaiah to preach nude and God cannot sin or would not ask someone to sin. We also know that he had no problem with Adam and Eve's nudity in the Garden of Eden.

Not everybody is subject to the same temptation. What may lead you to sin, may have no effect on me and vice versa.

If nudity leads me to lust, then I should not become a nudist. If it does not cause me to sin, then it is acceptable for me. That does not mean that it is acceptable for everybody.

Most nudists do not find the naked body causes them to lust. In fact, you can probably make the case that partial nudity or being scantily clad is more enticing.

What this means to me is that nudism is fine, but it is not for everyone.

This may not help you with your quest for an answer, but it works for me.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
If God wanted us to be naked, we'd be born that way.

[nudebynature]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
Aaron, think of the Bible as the Word of G*d as interpreted by Man. We are not going to get it straight all the time, especially with each translation. It is kind of like the game of telephone. One person tells another person a sentence, that person tells the next person what he heard, who tells the next person what he heard until by the time it gets to the last person, the sentence is usually messed up.

But with the Bible, we not only have different imperfect translations but also different agendas for some translations. Back in the early part of the last millenium, the church wielded immense power over both the citizenry and the government. So whatever they wanted to preach to the people, they could translate the Bible in such a way that it could be made possible to preach that. (yes, men do pervert the Word of G*d).

I wish you luck on your spiritual quest. But realize that finding religion is very personal. Your own relationship with G*d is what should be the driving force, not the words of others. You need to decide if nudity fits in with your spiritual relationship.

Bob S. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it hard to believe that any translation is a perversion of the word of God. Perversion suggests that it has been twisted with intent. I don't think that this is the case.

Our language is a living language. It changes over time. Word meanings change. The original text will not change; the interpretation will change based on the language of the day.

The various interpretations of the Bible are remarkably similar. Some are harder to understand because we don't use that kind of language, but the substance of the text is the same. Nobody has been able to find any contradictions in the most widely read book in the world (Harry Potter notwithstanding).

Because interpretations differ, it doesn't make any one version better than another. If you can read Hebrew, Ancient Greek or Aramaic, then you would get more of the intent and the subtleties, but you would not find the translations wrong, just lacking.

I don't think that our difficulty in understanding can be rationalized by blaming translators.

We can understand only as much as our minds and experiences allow. It can be in the text, but we won't see it or make the connections until we are ready.

The Bible says that we see as though through a glass darkly. More will become apparent as God sheds light on it and reveals it to us. In the meantime, it is there just waiting for us to understand. I am sure that a number of us will slap our foreheads and say, so THAT is what it means!

BTW, You don't have to use G*d. It is not a swear word and we are big enough to use the grownup word.


/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
If God wanted us to be naked, we'd be born that way.

[Fresh Air]

Here's my perspectives on the matter. First I'll address my views of nudity in the bible, then I'll give my oppinion of what is and isn't bad.

To me, out bodies are creations of God. They are prefect and beautiful creations. Sin on earth changed everything. Beyong the nude body, there are many other examples of how sin has warped into "bad" what God intended as good and pure. Sex, family, love, religion and stewardship to name a few. In this light, I don't view nudity itself as evil or wrong.

I think how the body is shown matters alot too. In your example of being shamed before the crowd. I think even a nudist would find that shameful. The wrong I see in it is not the nudity but robbing someone of their will, choice, and in that situation their dignity.

I too questioned many of the texts about nudity. So I looked up and cross referenced all the texts that mention nude or nakedness. From my perspective many of them pointed towards "how" the body was displayed and often when checked against the hebrew or greek the words "naked and nude" meant sex, so were labled wrong (as in the big list of don'ts in leviticus).

Wheather something is bad or good is a different matter in my oppinion. I feel that if it is wrong to you, then you should not do it. It is my view that any sin we commit takes place in the heart and is not an act, but a violation of putting our own wills over Gods. If I thought it was wrong (not glorifying of God) and to chew gum and I did it anyway I feel that would be a sin. Each person has different views and does things for different reasons. Many Christians can practice nudity with a clean conscience, but many can not. I would advise that you study and pray about it and only act as your heart tells you too.

Fresh Air

[Captain Zen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron Adams:
If you have read my posts from early last month you know I have some issues related to nudity and nudism i am dealing with. I have thouroughly studied what the Bible says on the subject of nudity, read more information about nudism than most nonnudists, read what various websites, mostly nudist sites, have to say with respect to whether or not nudity is sinful and have still been unable to resolve my issues related to religion and nudity. The purpose of this topic is to see how some of you have resolved the issues I am dealing with in the hope that it knowing how you dealt with these issues will help me deal with them. I am a Christian and would prefer responses from Christians.

The first question is how the impression that most of the verses in the Bible seem to cast nudity in a bad light and that those verses which are pro nudity only seem not to be emphatically so can be reconclied with nudism. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The whole problem lays within. First: to be a Christian has nothing to do with your physical appearance. To be a Christian is to carry out Christ's teachings. Nothing else. If you think that to be a Christian is to be a member of a Bible reaading club that calls itself a Church, you are wrong. Jesus, who did not start a Church, who was a Christ, which means an Enlightened master, followed no church. He attacked the Torah [the old testament], was a rebel in his own religion and he was an enlightened teacher. He was the western most well known teacher of Love. Practise his teacings and drop the church.
BTW, Jesus was not the only Enlightened master to teach how to become enlightened your self.
All churches and religions will stop you by all means to find enlightenement, because once you see the Light, you need the church no more.

[Captain Zen]

Anybody tell me how to sart a new thread please, I look everywhere but do not see "start new", or "post a new thread".
I want to start a thread about becoming realy totaly naked, not only physical, but spiritual as well. To find true freedom and lay of the 'clothes' of the mind.

Right above your name click on "Post", and then click on "Topic". Be sure to type in a title.

[Aaron Adams]

I'm surprised that anyone bothered to post in this thread. I started it over a year ago and am much more secure in how I feel about nudity than I was then.

[Captain Zen]

CAn somebody explain me how you can "believe" in the Bible, or the Torah, or the Bagha vad Gita or the Koran??? These books are written in the times that people had no electricity, technology or safe health medicines, no plastic or cars. They are written in such different times that the few times less truths that they contain are amazingly well thought out, but most is just outdated. Men wrote these books to unite the sheeple that have fear of being independent thinking entities. wWhy do so many people want others to think for them? Priests tell you what to think, how to act, what to do, eat or drink and more. Please be your own self and drop these others who want to control you, be naked and forget about the rest.

[takeitontherun]

I am Christian and considering going to a park. I will be keeping shorts on the lower region and my 4 yr. old will be with me to my knowledge.......not real sure how the fallout of him telling his sunday school class all about some place he went where everyone was nekkid tho, lol........sorry, that doesnt put an answer to the actual question.

[jon71]

As you will discover there are many Christians here, myself included. Welcome.

[P.J.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by takeitontherun:
I am Christian and considering going to a park. I will be keeping shorts on the lowed region and my 4 yr. old will be with me to my knowledge.......not real sure how the fallout of him telling his sunday school class all about some place he went where everyone was nekkid tho, lol........sorry, that doesnt put an answer to the actual question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



If this is a serious question, then my serious advice would be to talk to your son about nudity before going to any nudist park.
Does anyone in your church or your son's Sunday school class have to be told?
Unless I was the son of my pastor, I don't believe that I'm in any way obligated to discuss my nudist lifestyle with him or for that matter, anyone in my fellowship.

[takeitontherun]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by P.J.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by takeitontherun:
I am Christian and considering going to a park. I will be keeping shorts on the lowed region and my 4 yr. old will be with me to my knowledge.......not real sure how the fallout of him telling his sunday school class all about some place he went where everyone was nekkid tho, lol........sorry, that doesnt put an answer to the actual question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



If this is a serious question, then my serious advice would be to talk to your son about nudity before going to any nudist park.
Does anyone in your church or your son's Sunday school class have to be told?
Unless I was the son of my pastor, I don't believe that I'm in any way obligated to discuss my nudist lifestyle with him or for that matter, anyone in my fellowship. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, he prefers to be naked and does so in my home (i think a bigger part of it is his excema and or sensitivity to clothing but it doesnt bother me in the least. No, his class wouldnt need to be told but he is 4 and well, you know children that age. This boy is particularly articulate for his age. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Captain Zen]

Tell the 4 year old person, your son, that the park you are going to is the Zoo for people, where everuybody is just like animals in the animal Zoo, natural........

[missouriboy]

Fine, but that doesn't address the point, which is about the 4-year-old spouting the same story to the adults conducting his Sunday school class...

[Trailscout]

I wonder if "having a serious talk" with a four-year-old about nudity might inadvertently make him too self-conscious about his natural state.

I have a textile friend whose daughter frequently ventured nude into the living room at bath time. She was among friends and family and her nudity didn't worry her at all. Most kids adjust quickly to places where nudity occurs and it doesn't occur to them to talk about it most of the time.

If you attend some legalistic church where nudity is regarded as a terrible evil, then there must be no possibility of a slipup. You and your family must always be on guard against discovery and the consequent ruin of your standing in that community.

[NudeAl]

We used to worry a lot that our young kids might let the cat out of the bag so to speak. But, to my knowledge they never did.

I think my wife just explained to them that there are some things that are private just for the family to know. We also have a five year old grand-daughter now and she is such a chatter box. We took her along recently on a family vacation seeing all her great-grand parents, aunts and uncles and cousins. We also incorporated some stops for a few days at several nudist resorts/clubs. Well my brothers and sisters all know about our nudist tendencies but I have never spilt the beans to mom and dad. So I was a little nervous that something might come out but I never heard a word of it. It is almost like kids seem to know who they can tell things to and who they can't. I would say don't worry to much about it it very likely won't ever come up.

[Captain Zen]

It seems that many here are mot living the[ir] life. They ask others what to do , how to think, how to behave. By being a nudist some personal initiative has been taken, a treshold has been crossed. But still, I see here in the forum all kind of small and big fears expressed, what if the church says this, what if the school says that....... I suggest you stand up for your own individual personal conviction. If you feel you are a nudist, be one. And don't give in to what others, neighbors, prieststs, teachers or politicians have to say about it. Those who still are afraid what others think or say in this here group of people I call them shorn sheeple......... Better be a wolf and dance in the nude!

[Captain Zen]

In this context I must mention that fear is the opposite of love. Where there is love, fear can not arise. Where there is fear, love is lacking, so just love yourself and let the world be what it is. You create your world, dont let others do it for you.

[David77]

Many others have expressed their views on this subject, so I, also, wish to say the following;

You can not depend on the Bible to give you complete instruction regarding nudity nor on all ethical/moral questions. There are many source of guidance, not the least being the exercise of one's own inate healthy intelligence, reasoning.

The Old Testament, although having many gems of healthy quidance, is too often an expression of the cruelty of bronze age warriors. Some biblical references are listed below, which are shocking to our modern mind and ethics.

<center>GOD AS REPORTED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT</center>
It is amazing that moral persons can completely overlook the concept of the cruelty of God of the Old Testament: worshiping the concept of this cruel God who performs acts such as world genocide by drowning, (except for Noah and family), who kills some babies during passover, etc.

If a person values morals/ethics in himself, would he not require a God, whom he worships, to be moral/ethical?

<center><hr width= "50%"</center>

Here is a list of Bible references of God's cruelty and evil deeds. This is a terrible concept of God in the "holy?" bible's Old Testament.

References in the Bible;

"I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children." (Leviticus 26:22)

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)

"The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women" (Ezechial 9:4-6)

"When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves." (Deuteronomy 20:13-14)

"You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you." (Deuteronomy 28:53)

"The Lord said to Joshua [...] 'you are to hamstring their horses.' " (Exceedingly cruel.)
(Joshua 11:6)

"... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the
women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." (Judges 21:10-12)

"This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and *** .... And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword." (1 Samuel 15:3,7-8)

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their women with child ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" (Jeremiah 48:10)

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<font size= "2"><font color= "red">Is this really the "word of God" or the cruel thoughts of Bronze age warriors?</font size></font color>


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In the Bible, God admits he performs evil acts.

(As if the above was not proof enough!)

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Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Exodus 32:14
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Joshua 23:15
Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things.

Judges 9:23
Then God sent an evil spirit

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

2 Samuel 12:11
Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house

1 Kings 9:9
...therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.

1 Kings 14:10
Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam

2 Kings 6:33
....Behold, this evil is of the LORD;

2 Kings 21:12
Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.

2 Kings 22:16
Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place

2 Chronicles 34:24
Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof...

Nehemiah 13:18
Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city?

Jeremiah 4:6
Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.

Jeremiah 6:19
Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people

Jeremiah 11:11
Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them

Jeremiah 25:29
For, lo, I begin to bring evil

Jeremiah 35:17
Therefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon Judah and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the evil that I have pronounced against them:

Jeremiah 44:2
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Ye have seen all the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, and upon all the cities of Judah

Jeremiah 45:5
...behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD

Jeremiah 49:37
...I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the LORD; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them:

Micah 1:12
.... evil came down from the LORD

Micah 2:3
Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil

<hr width= "50%>

So thit I may not seems like some rabid anti-religion forum menber, I will list some positives from the Bible, (from my good acquaintance, our Unitarian Humanist theologian, Dr. John Hoad);

<center>GUIDELINES FOR LIVING
fron the teachings of Jesus</center>

[LIST]
<LI>The times are critical for humanmity. Follow me in seeking first the Kingdom of love on the path of justice. The rest will follow.

<LI>Sow the good word of love for all, wherever you go, and have faith that it will grow. Anticipate opposition, and be prepared to stake your life on your faith.

<LI>Let your love be all inclusive, luike the sun shining on the good and the bad, like rain falling on the just and the unjust. Eat with anybody.

<LI>Treat with the respect with which you would wish to be treated.

<LI>Seek the good of your adversary.

<LI>Don't set yourself up as Judge of others; be prepared to forgive time without number.

<LI>Befriend the alienated, the troubled, and the needy. Human service is what the Kingdom's servece is all about.

<LI>Any person who seeks the good of the human family is an equal partner in the Kingdom of love.

<LI>Religion exists to serve humanity, not the other way around. The clean heart and eye and the plain word have priority, not correst creed or ritual.

<LI>Be a contributing citizen of both the Kingdom of law and the kingdom of love. But love is your one master.


<LI>Be aware and alert, trusting as the lily, gentle as the dove, streetwise as the snake.













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[David77]

So that I may not seem like some rabid anti-religion forum member, from what I have said in the above post, I will list some positives from the Bible, (list from my good acquaintance, our Unitarian Universalist Humanist theologian, Dr. John Hoad);
<center><hr width= "40%"></center><center><Font size= "2">GUIDELINES FOR LIVING
from the teachings of Jesus</center></font size>

<LI>The times are critical for humanity. Follow me in seeking first the Kingdom of love on the path of justice. The rest will follow.

<LI>Sow the good word of love for all, wherever you go, and have faith that it will grow. Anticipate opposition, and be prepared to stake your life on your faith.

<LI>Let your love be all inclusive, like the sun shining on the good and the bad, like rain falling on the just and the unjust. Eat with anybody.

<LI>Treat with the respect with which you would wish to be treated.

<LI>Seek the good of your adversary.

<LI>Don't set yourself up as Judge of others; be prepared to forgive time without number.

<LI>Befriend the alienated, the troubled, and the needy. Human service is what the Kingdom's service is all about.

<LI>Any person who seeks the good of the human family is an equal partner in the Kingdom of love.

<LI>Religion exists to serve humanity, not the other way around. The clean heart and eye and the plain word have priority, not correct creed or ritual.

<LI>Be a contributing citizen of both the Kingdom of law and the kingdom of love. But love is your one master.

<LI>Be aware and alert, trusting as the lily, gentle as the dove, streetwise as the snake.

[Captain Zen]

And here is a site that unravels the Bible and shows you facts that you must know before you accept all that it contains
http://www.bibleandporno.com/

[dekanmot]

I am a Christian, and a member of a Southern Baptist Church. While I am more Christian than nudist, I see nothing wrong with my limited public nude experiences. I have posed for an amatuer photographer. The pictures he wanted to take were non sexual poses. Not one time during the photoshoot was I aroused by him. If he was gay, nothing on that subject was discussed. He made no passes at me, so it appeared to me it was more about the art, and the experience than sensualism.

I am also a nude life model at a Community College nearby. Nevr am I sexually aroused, and I have no idea if the instructors. or students are or aren't.

The real truth about vulgar thoughts I may have come more often in worship service, looking at a woman's butt when we are standing, than me being nude in a secular art class.

The problem with too many fellow Christians, are they can't separate the nude from the sex. Too many times they make claims that some styles of clothing worn by women are too revealing, too sexy. They have as much presumed a woman wearing a tight sweater is as bad as if she was wearing nothing.

If you have the proper perspective you have to rely on the "Great Commission" found in Mattlew 28 near the end. When Jesus is saying, "Go ye therefore into the world..." he is stating to the entire world he makes no exclusions, for example "Go ye therefore into the world, except where people are naked.

I trust that as a sinner I do manythings in my life that he dislikes. Perhaps even the joy I have in my nude experiences. But by the same token he can't be real thrilled with me when my mind wonders from a sermon to sexual thoughts of the woman in front of me either.

I am not suggesting God sanctions nudity. But as I understand it God has no degree of what sin is worse. I strive to keep my nude lifestyle wholesome. I like being nude. I like my body, just as I like myself. For me it is not about sex. if it ever becomes about sex then I must decide to do what is pleasing in His sight.

BTW isn't it facinating that on any given Sunday Christians will sing an Invitation hymn called "Just as I am". I wonder if on a given Sunday while sing this song, and a naked person was to accept Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, and the Pastor would turn them away. If Christianity is about winning souls, then we as Christians can't determine some naked people excluded.

[sawdust]

Aaron! I would like to suggest look up the Fig Leaf Forum (FLF). This site is written by and for Nudist Christians. Many of the contributors are folks actively involved with church ministries and are active nudist. You might also ask FLF for a copy their publication #100 which would I am sure put your mind to rest as concerns the ballance between being a Christian and a nudist. Best wishes, Sawdust

[l2ltlarry]

Quote by dekanmot:
"BTW isn't it facinating that on any given Sunday Christians will sing an Invitation hymn called "Just as I am". I wonder if on a given Sunday while sing this song, and a naked person was to accept Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, and the Pastor would turn them away. If Christianity is about winning souls, then we as Christians can't determine some naked people excluded."

The movie, 'Norma Jean and Marilyn', has this very thing happen near its beginning, with Ashley Judd as young Marilyn going to the front of the church completely naked and accepting Christ. The pastor didn't act any differently toward her than he did toward the others. Wynonna, in a bio a couple of weeks ago, mentioned Ashley standing naked in front of the church.

[tinner666]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by takeitontherun:
I am Christian and considering going to a park. I will be keeping shorts on the lower region and my 4 yr. old will be with me to my knowledge.......not real sure how the fallout of him telling his sunday school class all about some place he went where everyone was nekkid tho, lol........sorry, that doesnt put an answer to the actual question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Being Christian will have nothing to do with being nude. And at 4 years old, the kid isn't going to pay any attention to the nude you or anybody else. Go fully nude. The child will look once, as a way of recognizing you, then go about it's business. The adaptation to full nudity will take a kid about 15 seconds, or less. Frank http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif