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  • #16
    I realy wish naturists would drop the expression "body shame"- it really is a misnoma. My own kids were taught that there is a time and place for nudity but generally speaking it wasn't in the presence of other people.

    They were taught that their private parts were just private, not something to be ashamed of. I'm not ashamed of my medical records or my bank statement or my sex life but they aren't things that I want all and sundry to have access to.

    Many nudists mistakenly and irritatingly conflate shame with a desire for privacy in certain things. They are NOT the same thing.

    Stu

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    • #17
      croydon,the only thing that worries me is that once you and i agreed on a point. now we have something else in common. but it did not take me long to realize,whatever is popular is the new "breakthrough". all i really remember is the woman who talked about having sex with the ups delivery man and how this was all o.k some how.[i am not joking here].never saw him before or again.

      having dealt with childern before even having my own,i can say beyond a shadow of doubt that two year olds will be two year olds,if allowed to be such.
      but there is always some bleeding heart out there who is trying to save everyone with their brand of justice. many would like to see a return to victorian times. we are all being watched even you croydon. so if you have childern just be careful. yes i do see a camera behind every tree,just look up sometimes,you will be amazed at what is wacthing. they are in stop lights,stores,streets,highways and forests,yes i said forests supposely to catch illegal fires and dump sites. which is a good thing of course,but they are doing much more then that. sound is not legal,falls under wiretapping,but video is. and then there are lip readers----

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      • #18
        hey stu,how are you doing? still seeing a dark cloud behind every silver lining? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
        i agree with that "body shame" stu.
        i think it should be "body pride"
        proud body,healthy body,healthy mind.
        please don't hate me because i am beautiful.

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        • #19
          quote:
          Originally posted by Croydon:
          [qb]Here we go again w/ Jon's usual "someone told him...." and his constant ranting of "society teaches....shame of body yadda yadda yadda." Jon, not every person who doesn't go around naked is ashame of their body. [/qb]
          Jon-Marc's observations usually make good sense. I happen to believe he is right that society constantly teaches body shame. And don't discount his experience as a parent.

          -Mark

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          • #20
            quote:
            Originally posted by Jon-Marc:
            [qb] Did someone hear a strange noise? Here's another "expert" in "pyschoogy" no less (whatever that is) who thinks he has the answer. I said "probably". That's the same thing as saying "maybe". I have no idea why a two-year-old would act that way. I DO know that body shame IS taught, and children who are born WITHOUT body shame are taught not just by their parents, but by society and their peers that their bodies are shameful.

            Anyway, anything I say is just an opinion. Unlike some people here, I don't claim to have the answers.

            Yes, anyone can ignore anything I say since it's just an opinion. Prattle on oh expert Croydon. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [/qb]
            Did I say I was an expert? What I said was, I am a psychology major and have taken two courses in child psychology. That is different from saying I am an expert.

            Yes, everything you say is just an opionion but it gets dull when you keep stating same response OVER AND OVER AND OVER, "society this, society that...body shame this body shame that..." that is your response to a lot of things

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            • #21
              "Body shame" is indoctrinated into the minds of children in the US. I'm happy for Stu's children that they escaped it. I doubt that Croydon's psychology courses even brush upon the subject that Jon-Marc speaks of. Of course, Croydon is still at the age where he "knows" more than those two and three times his own age... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

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              • #22
                You can be proud of your body whilst wanting to keep certain parts out of general public view.

                As a bodybuilder, I'm proud of my body. But there are intimate parts that I don't let other people see. That's not because I'm ashamed of them - it's because I feel they are intimate and private.

                Stu

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                • #23
                  The question about "body shame" is semantic. I believe all of us, also Stu, know approximately the intended meaning of these words. If we don't want to use them, could we use "body intimacy" instead, calling it unnecessary in the naturist viewpoint?

                  Kari P

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                  • #24
                    Kari

                    "body intimacy"

                    That's far preferable. I'd really apreciate it if people called it that. Thanks, Kari! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

                    Stu

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                    • #25
                      Stu is still in the adolescent stage of life, the stage when teens often assert their individuality by demanding privacy, but one can hope that he will reach adulthood mentally in a few years and with that milestone, perhaps a more rational perspective on nudity.

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                      • #26
                        Trailscout. That was mean and uncalled for. I am surprised at you. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

                        Stu

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                        • #27
                          Psychiatrist Eric Berne MD recognised that we are all capable of "adult" type responses, but some of us often resort to "child" type.

                          His book Games People Play makes very informative reading.

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                          • #28
                            Rex

                            "but some of us often resort to "child" type."

                            That's not what he had in mind. Eric Berne came up with a well-used analysis of human interaction that became referred to as "Transactional Analysis" or TA.

                            Everybody - and I mean EVERYBODY - periodically engages their "Child" ego state. That does NOT mean they become "childish" - it is merely a description of two particular frames of mind that are commonly seen in children ("adaptive" child and "free child"). The former implies respectful, referential and obedient mind states whilst the latter refers to creative, impulsive mind states. Neither of these have anything whatsoever to do with my aversion to nudity.

                            Trailscout seemed to be attributing my dislike for nudity to immaturity. As a 47 year-old reasonably successful married man and father of 3, I must say that I find that patronising.

                            Stu

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                            • #29
                              I know I have told this story before, but there are new people on this bb and not all of them read all the past posts.

                              A local nudist resort that I belong to had a nude bowling event. My wife and daughters and myself attended it. Had a lot of fun! Time goes by and we were watching a television show called "ED" that partially takes place in a bowling alley. My youngest daughter made one humorous observation and said,"They're not naked!"

                              Anyhow, don't you think that there should be a certain amount of shame when regaurding our bodies? I mean, if we were completely satisfied with it's state, we wouldn't bother changing it. Some of you lay out in the sun to darken it, some excercize to maintain it or trim it up. It is shame that compells us to do something about it.
                              If our homes had flaking and chipping paint, we'd feel somewhat embarrassed about it and would then paint it. If our homes are filthy, we spend a day or more cleaning and organizing.
                              I think shame could be considered a motivator to improve the situation or condition, otherwise we'd all be Jabba the Hutts'.
                              I am not talking about plastic surgery to improve what the maker has givin us, nor dangerous diets and such, but do naturally what we do to maintain a healthy body. A type of shame helps with that.
                              Just another oppinion!

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                              • #30
                                Stu,
                                I am not diminishing your achievements in other arenas of life. I simply offered an educated guess that you are being immature when it comes to your phobia.

                                Surely you aren't telling us that you are incapable of attaining further maturity in any aspect of your life? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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