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  • Jock Sturges: Nudist art?

    I don't know if Jock Sturges has ever been brought up here. The last time he was brought up in another nudist forum, I was surprised to read a lot of negative reactions to his work; particularily about his choice of subjects/models. I once watched a french documentary on Jock Sturges; his models are in fact nudists (mostly the sons and daughters of nudist friends of his'), and the pictures are almost all taken on nudist locations. Still, many nudists actually do not consider his work to reflect the nudist way of life at all.

    Personally, I came accross his work in the early 90's, and it struck me more as art (almost in the tradition of the ancient Greeks) than a depiction of nudism; maybe because the poses are not quite natural enough.

    So, is Jock Sturges' work nudist art, just art, or not art at all?

    http://www.memosite.cn/article.php/318

  • #2
    I don't know if Jock Sturges has ever been brought up here. The last time he was brought up in another nudist forum, I was surprised to read a lot of negative reactions to his work; particularily about his choice of subjects/models. I once watched a french documentary on Jock Sturges; his models are in fact nudists (mostly the sons and daughters of nudist friends of his'), and the pictures are almost all taken on nudist locations. Still, many nudists actually do not consider his work to reflect the nudist way of life at all.

    Personally, I came accross his work in the early 90's, and it struck me more as art (almost in the tradition of the ancient Greeks) than a depiction of nudism; maybe because the poses are not quite natural enough.

    So, is Jock Sturges' work nudist art, just art, or not art at all?

    http://www.memosite.cn/article.php/318

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the photos. I think they, the photos, depict nudists in a positive way. I didn't see any poses that were 'over the line'. In fact, the poses are similar to the photos that are on other naturist web sites as well as this one. Thanks for the pics.

      Comment


      • #4
        quote:
        Originally posted by Nudony:
        maybe because the poses are not quite natural enough.



        That's interesting, especially since his technique for determining poses is to carry a polaroid camera with him, and then recreate the images he feels works well. As a portrait/nude photographer myself, I'm always interested in how to make the image seem natural, and how people see it differently.

        Comment


        • #5
          The police arrested more than 100 visitors on Spanish pedophilia pages. It was an European wide joint operation where police followed the vistors IP:numbers and then visited their homes and went thru the PC. Sturges pics have been popular on those sites in newsgroups.

          Comment


          • #6
            yes, also Jock Sturgis has come up here before, especially at a time that there was some turmoil about the choice of avatar of some girl (who as far as I recall turned out to be a fake afterall).

            As a photographer, JS may be delivering reasonably good work - opinions vary, there are soooo many acclaimed photographers of nudes around. Some make a name, but you wonder why. BUT, his subjects are nearly always young slim naked girls. THEN you wonder why.

            In one of his recent books (a look behind the scenes, cannot recall the title) he admits that his interest in naturism was because as a young man he felt aroused by all those young naked women. At least he is honest. That he makes his photos at naturist locations and feature naturists doesn't mean anything and is not relevant, other than for those who make it to mean that then it must be OK - for some reason....

            Is a overly photographic interest for young naked girls healthy. IMHO, no - even not if you are the greatest photographer on the world. Do his photos reflect on the naturist way of life. NO, they are just stills og young naked girls in various not always equally natural poses (see also comment nudony). Certainly his photos are not representative of the naturist "community".

            Is it art? Well, what is art. Somehow he made a name, probably more based on controversy then true skill. There are zillions of really good nude photographers around, and I don't mean glamour or "worse", but "fine art".

            Comment


            • #7
              You have to be careful photographing nude children. Just because you are a naturist doesn't mean you can't be exploited. In any nudist situation you can have a large group of people of all ages hanging out together nude having a great time, but as soon as a camera comes out a good experience turns suspicious. I think nude photography is great, but must be done in the proper context. I don't think these photos reflect naturism, but also don't have a philosophical problem with them either. They are non-sexual, but as was said before, depicting only young girls is suspicious. It is nice to see photos of families that are close and comfortable enough to frolic together in the nude. Photos of only posed nude kids is just kind of creepy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Nudony:"So, is Jock Sturges' work nudist art, just art, or not art at all?"

                Just because he takes pictures of nudists does not make what he does nudist art but simply nude art. What defines art is a whole other topic altogether.

                I simply take his photographs as they are presented and look deeper into them for a meaning. Personally, I like Sturges and have a few of his books.

                Naturist4Ever:"Is a overly photographic interest for young naked girls healthy. IMHO, no - even not if you are the greatest photographer on the world"

                How about an overly photographic interest in young clothed girls? Or for naked women? Sometimes, one person's muse at the time surrounds a particular subject interest. If the intentions of the photographer are purely artistic, why would his interst not be healthy?

                Bob S.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Look at any form of visual media and you will see an out of proportion representation of young women. Especially movies, advertising and 'womens' magazines. Nudists would be far more likely to choose models representative of reality, but Jock Sturges isn't alone in his choices, in fact he is positively mainstream.

                  What IS different is that his pictorial studies are not sexual or prurient - they simply present his models naturally. In that respect they are more nudist oriented.

                  I can appreciate them as pretty pictures. But I don't really consider them representative of nudism - nor do I consider them prurient.

                  -Mark

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bob,

                    Indeed - the same applies to naked women. For example, I would suggest you look up any arbitrary webpage about Gustav Vigeland, he was a norwegian sculptor (+ much more) 1st half of last century. He left the capital (where I live) with a very interesting sculpture park of nudes, in bronze and granite, that are unlike anything else you are likely to see ever. Unlike the so-called artist Jock Sturgis (who in my mind is not more than a skilled photographer), at least GV's nudes are VERY well posed, they present an extremely well composed mix of young and old, male and female, from baby to the old. It is incredibly fascinating, it is art that comes from the heart. Not concidentally, part of the park is used for nude sunbathing, and few bat an eye (other than certain groups of tourists)

                    PS - NaturistMark, JS pictures appear pretty much all 100% posed, and not all that natural. The thing with young women isn't it simply that "sex sells" - even if it is just a remote thought/suggestion of it?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:
                      Originally posted by Naturist4Ever:
                      PS - NaturistMark, JS pictures appear pretty much all 100% posed, and not all that natural. The thing with young women isn't it simply that "sex sells" - even if it is just a remote thought/suggestion of it?


                      Indeed they are posed. The photographer describes his process as taking candid polaroid shots and recreating the interesting ones for his posed portraits.

                      Beauty sells. Young sells. Sexy sells. Just look at Madison Avenue (meaning the advertising industry). Many artists - or skilled craftsmen - have long favored young, sexy and pretty subjects. Perhaps they find young, sexy and beautiful to be appealing - it's not as farfetched a concept as it sounds. That doesn't make it prurient - even if some people derive prurient pleasure from them - some people derive prurient pleasure from depictions of feet (so far we haven't been able to lock them all up). But that is not a reasonable basis to condemn Sturges.

                      Almost all the Jock Sturges photos I've seen feature young attractive women and girls, but none are posed provocatively or in a sexually explicit manner. Individually they serve as fine examples of nudist photography, but as a whole his oeuvre displays a very conventional bias towards feminine attractiveness and youth. Which means he is very talented but rather conventional in his own conception of body acceptance.

                      -Mark

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        a photo of a clothed model with 3 nude models looks a bit odd.

                        http://www.memosite.cn/article.php/318

                        http://www.zjphoto.cn/club/uploadIma...7124829589.jpg

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Naturist4Ever, as I mentioned above, it is a whole other topic to decide what constitutes art and I do notr want to get into that discussion right now.

                          Naturist4Ever:"at least GV's nudes are VERY well posed..."

                          Ah yes Naturist, but are his overt interest in nudes unhealthy? He posed them in specific ways to elicit a certain response in the viewer. The response to a sculpture may even be heightened as interaction is possible. All views can be seen.

                          What is so special about the subcategpry of a specific nude subject that would make the interest unhealthy?

                          Bob S.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i personally think all the photos are beautiful

                            the main problem is not with the pictures, its with the climate we live in today. there is so much "peodophilia" in the news a mother cannot get her holiday photos developed without a phone call from the local police (personal experience)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One man's art is another man's porn. I think perhaps J.S. is possibly pure in his vision (I hope), but what disturbs me is that his images are probably purchased and viewed more for the enjoyment of pedophiles than it is for the enjoyment of art coneiseurs.

                              From the photos I've seen...he's a good photographer, but he's not THAT good. What makes him famous is that he takes pictures of naked little girls that many consider inappropriate. It bothers me that he sells the photos.... I don't think I could sleep at night if I knew that my art and the subjects of my art (especially children) were being exploited by pedophiles world wide. I would withdraw all my books and focus on taking pictures of puppy dogs instead. I think J.S. could do good work as a pet photographer....I feel it would be better overall.

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