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My Exchange Family, the Nudists

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  • #61
    Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

    Should it have been disclosed to the fellow from my high school who went to Japan that the household bathing facilities would not be completely private?

    Should it have been disclosed to the fellow from my high school who went to India that the household bathrooms would not be stocked with toilet paper?

    Should anyone even have considered it necessary to tell the student from South Africa who came to my high school that he would be expected to treat black students as equals?

    You might make judgments within the context of an American society regarding what should be disclosed. Within the context of other societies, these things might not seem so far from the norm that they would be require disclosure.

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    • #62
      Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

      Originally posted by WiiDoit View Post
      But they did give her a choice:
      "The nudist outings were going to be pretty much mandatory, my hosts explained to me—much like speaking the language or eating the food. The family felt strongly that, to properly explore their native ways, I needed to join in the nudist activities. If I closed my mind to nudism, I'd prove myself closed to the wonder of life itself. While there would be no punishment if I refused to participate, they implied that such a lapse of courage on my part would signal a deep moral failure—possibly a spiritual one.

      They explained how they felt but left her the choice because they did not say it was mandatory and there would be no punishment. We don't know what commutation there was with the parents but I would think someone would be keeping the parents updated about the young girl was doing.
      At the nudist venues I've visited, I have seen reluctant teenagers who cling to a pair of shorts or a long t-shirt. I think most adults understand that the absolute worst thing to do would be to try to coerce a reluctant teenager to go nude. To do so would simply reinforce the teenager's negative view of the situation.

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      • #63
        Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

        Originally posted by Stu2630 View Post
        Interesting that you have quoted in bold "While there would be no punishment if I refused to participate," - but not "The nudist outings were going to be pretty much mandatory" or "they implied that such a lapse of courage on my part would signal a deep moral failure"

        How is that possibly a genuine choice for a vulnerable 16-year-old in a foreign country? The very word "mandatory" is the antonym of "optional".
        You are right, Stu.

        I have a daughter who is now 18, just 4-months from her 18th birthday. At that age, so long as she was given notice and a choice, then that would be up to her.Stu
        Seems that we have daughters very near the same age. Mine is 18 years and 2 months.

        How is the age of 18 so magical? You should know that FKK doesn't mean adult activities. Is it really so that exposing your daughter to a different culture frightens you?

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

          jasenj: "When a person (adult) in authority says, "You can do this or not, but if you don't we'll think you're a horrible person", that's not really "no consequences". (Read the article, they made it clear not participating would be considered "moral failing" and other such things indicating they would think less of her and she would be a bad guest if she did not go.) That's emotional pressure."

          You are reading a lot into that statement. First, we have a fun article from a woman who felt the experience was positive. Second, she may have been facetious with that for humor. Was she pressured? Yes. Is it bad to be pressured to do something outside your comfort zone? No. They had a philosophy of naturism that they explained to her and then stated that to not at least explore that aspect of their lives with them was a moral failing. Was that wrong of them? Not any more than telling a Jewish teen that she had to attend a Christian Church with the host family.

          Bob S.

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          • #65
            Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

            Originally posted by Bob S. View Post
            jasenj: "When a person (adult) in authority says, "You can do this or not, but if you don't we'll think you're a horrible person", that's not really "no consequences". (Read the article, they made it clear not participating would be considered "moral failing" and other such things indicating they would think less of her and she would be a bad guest if she did not go.) That's emotional pressure."

            You are reading a lot into that statement. First, we have a fun article from a woman who felt the experience was positive. Second, she may have been facetious with that for humor. Was she pressured? Yes. Is it bad to be pressured to do something outside your comfort zone? No. They had a philosophy of naturism that they explained to her and then stated that to not at least explore that aspect of their lives with them was a moral failing. Was that wrong of them? Not any more than telling a Jewish teen that she had to attend a Christian Church with the host family.

            Bob S.
            Nowhere in the article did get a hint of any moral objection, by her or her parents, just she was uncomfortable with the idea. Why hasn't anybody complained about how she was pressured to speak the language or eat the food also? Oh. and Stu2630 I think there is a difference between pretty much mandatory and mandatory. Would you rather see a person pretty much nude (with their genitals covers) or nude?

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            • #66
              Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

              Originally posted by Bob S. View Post
              You are reading a lot into that statement.
              I think we're all reading a lot into the article, period. But it's still cold, speculating and judging on the Internet is a good substitute for sitting around a pool complaining about the government and the weather.

              we have a fun article from a woman who felt the experience was positive.
              Are we reading the same article? I got the sense that she thought the whole thing was ridiculous and boring. She tolerated it because it was expected and to refuse would have brought judgement (however mild) from the host family. I did not get the sense that she felt the experience was positive.

              - Jasen.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

                Originally posted by Mosquito_Bait View Post
                Should it have been disclosed to the fellow from my high school who went to Japan that the household bathing facilities would not be completely private?

                Should it have been disclosed to the fellow from my high school who went to India that the household bathrooms would not be stocked with toilet paper?

                Should anyone even have considered it necessary to tell the student from South Africa who came to my high school that he would be expected to treat black students as equals?

                You might make judgments within the context of an American society regarding what should be disclosed. Within the context of other societies, these things might not seem so far from the norm that they would be require disclosure.

                Ideally yes. I knew a few exchange students in high school and amongst other things I know there were taught American swear-words, in the classroom. It's useful information. For that matter all kinds of things are useful. An exchange student from Japan was killed years ago while looking for a Halloween party because he didn't know the word "freeze" and someone way too trigger happy shot him.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

                  I wonder if anyone here would be upset about a textile family "forcing" a nudist exchange student to remain clothed?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

                    jasenj: "Are we reading the same article? I got the sense that she thought the whole thing was ridiculous and boring. She tolerated it because it was expected and to refuse would have brought judgement (however mild) from the host family. I did not get the sense that she felt the experience was positive."

                    I don't know. Are we? First, yes, it was boring, at least just lying at the beach. I would find that boring. I also wouldn't have wanted to play basketball. We all have our preferred things we do, naked or not. I'd prefer swimming, walking around, reading. Nothing too physically involved but not just doing nothing.

                    As for her last paragraph: And yet, in the end, the Germans were absolutely right. The Free Body Culture gave me a gift I might never have received had I refused to play along. It left me with an acute sense of the absurd—one I still cherish—to be there among my fellow apes, awkward and less than half-willing, aiming and missing, leaping, landing and wincing. I view that as coming to the conclusion that she thought it was a positive experience. "Germans absolutely right", "I still cherish." Yes she found it absurd, but in a good way and was happy that she participated.

                    nimrod: "I wonder if anyone here would be upset about a textile family "forcing" a nudist exchange student to remain clothed?"

                    The Toronto family did that to the German girl. Did she complain about not going to a nude beach while visiting?

                    Bob S.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

                      I was a 16-yr-old exchange student to an Asian country. There were hundreds of large and small, amusing and disturbing differences to learn both within the family and socially. The usual route to learning was some incident of horrendous embarrassment! By the time I succeeded in adapting, everyone around me had also learned a lot. That is sort of the point of exchange programs. And that also applied to family and friends "back home" watching how much I chose to re-adapt when I returned from my "other home"! It was a wonderful experience! I liked Millet's article for her attempt to share the learning process with a "back home" audience by kind of taking them step by step through it.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

                        Originally posted by nimrod View Post
                        I wonder if anyone here would be upset about a textile family "forcing" a nudist exchange student to remain clothed?
                        Nudism is such a minority interest that textilism is the expectation - the default.

                        In spite of the comments on here, I believe that the vast majority of nudists would not behave like this. They would not browbeat a young visitor to their home to participate in nudism in the way the German family did - not unless they had notified the young person first. I don't believe most people on here would do such a thing - including those who are defending the hosts. So why are they defending the indefensible? I think the answer is because there is something of an "us" and "them" world view going on. As I said, nudists are a minority and often treated unfairly, often ignored but sometimes with derision and suspicion by a textile majority, so they instinctively stick together and defend each other against possible criticism by that majority.

                        There is nothing wrong with saying that the particular nudist hosts got it wrong in the way they treated this girl. We all make bad calls sometimes and, by recognising them, we learn from them.

                        Stu

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                        • #72
                          Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

                          Originally posted by Stu2630 View Post
                          Nudism is such a minority interest that textilism is the expectation - the default.
                          And your point is what? It is okay to "force" an exchange student to dress and not "force" one to be nude. But what else would I expect from one who continually defends hypocrisy.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

                            Originally posted by nimrod View Post
                            And your point is what? It is okay to "force" an exchange student to dress and not "force" one to be nude. But what else would I expect from one who continually defends hypocrisy.
                            My point is that if an exchange student comes to stay with you and you are nudists, you either refrain from nudism in their presence, or you inform them before they come that you are nudists and that, if they come, they will be expected to participate (so they have a choice not to come).

                            If an exchange student is a nudist, they should either stay with a nudist family, or refrain from nudism during the brief period of the exchange.

                            Quite simple, really. And no hypocrisy there.

                            Stu

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

                              Originally posted by nimrod View Post
                              And your point is what? It is okay to "force" an exchange student to dress and not "force" one to be nude. But what else would I expect from one who continually defends hypocrisy.
                              Easy now...I understand your frustration, but lets keep it calm and upbeat....

                              To Stu's defense whether we agree or not in our world today the "norm" or "default" as Stu put it is most people at the very least assume that wearing of clothes is expected unless otherwise suggested or mentioned before hand. So the statement that textilism is the default is fair and accurate.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: My Exchange Family, the Nudists

                                Originally posted by Stu2630 View Post
                                Nudism is such a minority interest that textilism is the expectation - the default.
                                Ahh ... but even when nudism is not the minority interest - such as within an FKK household, or at an FKK park - you still insist that textilism should be default rather than the exception. Even in those cases you argue that the nudists be the ones that yield rather than the textiles.

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