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One of the things that I like about nudism is that it is un-Islamic.

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  • One of the things that I like about nudism is that it is un-Islamic.

    Don't get me wrong. I fully support the right of a person to choose whatever religion they like, including Islam, as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me. For myself, I love bacon and ham, and I enjoy an occasional glass of beer or wine. I also thoroughly enjoy skinny dipping. I've been watching the news reports about Boko Haram and ISIS, but even if I didn't know about those organizations, I've seen enough about life in conservative Islamic societies to know that it is not for me. Of course, I also do not want to be affiliated with any of the more conservative Christian denominations. The fact that nudism is incompatible with these belief systems is one more reason for me to want to be a nudist.

  • #2
    I agree about nudism, but even though I am a Christian, I have strong feelings against any society that kills off anyone who lives different or believes different than them.

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    • #3
      I've met nudist Muslims, and there are plenty of people who will explain to you that nudism is unChristian. It really isn't incompatible with either faith, because when nudists separate nudity from lust, it is separated from sin. Both faiths suffer from fundamentalists who use their God as a weapon to oppress - I think that is a worse problem in Islam, but many so-called Christians are doing their best to keep up.

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      • #4
        ^^ There is no doubt that you can find Muslims who are comfortable with nudism just as you can find Muslims who eat bacon, drink beer, buy lottery tickets, and have interest bearing bank accounts. All these things are prohibited by the Qur'an in language that is unambiguous. Regarding nudity, the Qur'an states the following.

        Qur'an 24:30 - "Tell the believing men to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what they do."

        Qur'an 24:31 - "And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed."

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        • #5
          I tend towards atheism myself. The fact that it is compatible with nudism is purely coincidental.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mosquito_Bait View Post
            ^^ There is no doubt that you can find Muslims who are comfortable with nudism just as you can find Muslims who eat bacon, drink beer, buy lottery tickets, and have interest bearing bank accounts. All these things are prohibited by the Qur'an in language that is unambiguous. Regarding nudity, the Qur'an states the following.

            Qur'an 24:30 - "Tell the believing men to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what they do."

            Qur'an 24:31 - "And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed."
            Yes, and we could also cite chapter and verse from Christian scriptures that have no place in Christian practice - for instance stoning a disobedient child to death, raping the women of your fallen enemies, requiring women to be silent in church, etc.

            Those two verses from the Koran are about avoiding the sin of lust. When nudity is separated from sexuality it is no longer a cause of lust.

            To be certain, fundamentalism is stronger in Islam than most of Christianity, but there is nothing intrinsic in nudism that would prevent devoted followers of either religion to practice nudism - despite the contrary opinions of their fundamentalist factions.

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            • #7
              ^^ Baloney! The statement "guard their private parts" is unambiguous. There isn't even an exception for single-sex situations such as locker rooms. In order to justify nudism, Muslims must use common sense and set the Qur'an aside.

              The Qur'an is not like the Bible. The Bible is a compilation of multiple sources translated from various languages. There is no consistency. One Bible passage directly conflicts with another and the whole thing is a garbled mess. I actually like this since it makes it difficult for fundamentalists to build a solid case to condemn anything based on Biblical passages. In comparison, the entire Qur'an is from one source. Since many contemporary followers speak Arabic, there aren't the major arguments over translation that exist with the Bible.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by marko486 View Post
                I tend towards atheism myself. The fact that it is compatible with nudism is purely coincidental.

                Yeah, I would probably be an atheist if I didn't have a strong family and cultural connection to my church.

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                • #9
                  I counter call bologna! You acknowledge that Christian scriptures are just as bad, or worse, than the Koran, but somehow not as bad in practice because fundamentalist Christians are somehow not as credible. Tell that to the victims of the inquisition - or the crusades - or the puritans . The problem is fundamentalists, not the text they use, there is always a text they can use.

                  Personally I'd never become a Muslim, or a Southern Baptist. But I know very good people of each faith - and some of them are even nudists.

                  Don't fool yourself that being anti-Muslim is somehow better than being anti-Chistian or anti-gay or anti-black. You can always point at bad people and claim they are the problem with a whole group. Any group.

                  Now imagine if this thread had started with "What I like about nudism is that it is not compatible with negroes. Not that there is anything wrong with negroes, some of my best friends are negroes."

                  And then we could have a whole discussion about how we know black people who are nudists. How being black is not incompatible with nudism, even though there are far fewer black nudists than as a proportion of the population.

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                  • #10
                    ^^ I never made the claim that Christian fundamentalists aren't as bad as Muslim fundamentalists. The point I was making is that the Qur'an is much more direct in its prohibitions than the Bible, especially concerning nudity.

                    The standard Internet response to introducing a statement about Blacks into an argument to make a point about stereotypes is to introduce a statement about Nazis. Just as we can say that not all Muslims oppose nudism we could say that not all Nazis hate Jews. Both statements are probably true, but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of both groups fit their respective descriptions.
                    Last edited by Mosquito_Bait; 08-23-2014, 06:03 AM.

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                    • #11
                      "Last week my wife came back from the playground. She told me that my two-year-old, three-foot-tall son, Abraham, walked up to a woman in a hijab and asked “What’s your name?” The woman told him her name. Then he put out his little hand and said, “Nice to meet you!” Everyone laughed, and he smiled. He shared with her his firmest handshake, like I taught him."
                      -- From "How to Be Polite"

                      Polite tolerance of each other is the essential first step. Then we can have an informed, friendly, and maybe lively conversation, not just on the Qur'an, but on how it gets interpreted in the hadith and tafsir and then translated into localized customs, rules and laws, in comparison to other religious and humanitarian traditions as well as all of the complex and often conflicting attitudes toward nudity.

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                      • #12
                        ^^ Next time you see the nice lady in the hajib, start a conversation with her and ask if she has ever been to a nude beach.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mosquito_Bait View Post
                          ^^ Next time you see the nice lady in the hajib, start a conversation with her and ask if she has ever been to a nude beach.
                          You might be surprised. The hijab is often more a cultural style than an indication of fundamentalism. I mentioned that I've met Muslim nudists - including a Turkish couple, the fairer half of which said she would often wear a version of the hijab - it is the cultural norm where they live. But guess what, she doesn't wear it all the time, including at their nudist beaches (apparently there are a number of nude beaches in Turkey).

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                          • #14
                            1. There are no official nude beaches in Turkey. There are a few beaches that are sufficiently remote that a person could get away with being nude, but don't expect to see any beaches with throngs of nudists. A few years ago, there was an attempt to open a nudist resort in Turkey. Local officials closed it down based on a building code violation a few days after it opened. I have not heard that the place ever reopened. If you want to visit a nude beach in that part of the world, go to Greece.

                            2. About 20 years ago, I worked in the same office as a lady from Egypt. She always dressed very nicely with knee-length skirts and high heals. It was evident that she took pride in her body and worked out a lot. She told me she was a devout Muslim, but evidently the practice of her religion did not necessitate wearing a hajib at that time. I saw her a few months ago at a work function. She was wearing a black hajib that revealed just her hands and part of her face. I was only able to identify her via process of elimination. I spoke with her, but the conversation did not extend to the reasons she had decided to start wearing the hajib. This leads me to suspect that the wearing of a hajib in western countries is more a matter of fashion than religious devotion.

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                            • #15
                              Mark: " Tell that to the victims of the inquisition - or the crusades - or the puritans . The problem is fundamentalists, not the text they use, there is always a text they can use."

                              These are history in Christian parlance. In Islam, they are today. Christian Fundies of today are incomparable to the Islamic Fundies. The biggest problem with the Islamic Fundies of today is that, like the Christian Fundies of yesteryear, they are leading countries. They have money and power and bloodlust against Christians and Jews particularly, but also against anyone who is not their brand of Islam. Christianity no longer has the convert by the sword mentality. Fundamentalist Islam does.

                              I don't believe nudism is applicable for any of the most Fundamental of the Abrahamic religions. I wonder, though, if the more Fundamental Wiccans demand skyclad ceremonies while the more liberal Wicca sects don't require it.

                              Bob S.

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