Supreme Court Healthcare Ruling

[BinCo]

I checked both of your references, and you are both wrong. According to the CDC the number of gun deaths in 2009 (the latest year for which data is available) was 31,347. Interestingly you were both off by a factor of about 300%. The CDC develops all kinds of statistics relating to causes of mortality, and typically reports it as xx numbers of deaths per 100,0000 population, which is probably where the 100k number was erroneously picked up. In case you are wondering - the death rate from firearms in the USA is 10.2 per every 100k people, every year - more than twice the level in Canada.

A very good (and short) article in The Atlantic shows that gun deaths in the USA very closely track to how permissive guns laws are - the states with the most restrictive laws average the lowest gun death rates, and the ones with the most permissive laws have the highest rates. The Geography of Gun Violence

Isn't that the most fascinating statistic page? Now, the list also includes the gun deaths declared as suicides, accidents and homicides. The suicide rate used to run about 1/3 of the overall amount. As a suicide, I would not include those in the same argument about gun deaths. Someone willing to shoot themselves would be likely to just find another way to complete the task.

[Skinview]

Isn't that the most fascinating statistic page? Now, the list also includes the gun deaths declared as suicides, accidents and homicides. The suicide rate used to run about 1/3 of the overall amount.

Much more than that now.

"In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. "
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

As a suicide, I would not include those in the same argument about gun deaths. Someone willing to shoot themselves would be likely to just find another way to complete the task.

For sure. The suicide rate in Japan is something like twice the rate in the US, and guns are virtually unavailable there.

[Skinview]

I checked both of your references, and you are both wrong. According to the CDC the number of gun deaths in 2009 (the latest year for which data is available) was 31,347. Interestingly you were both off by a factor of about 300%.

Again, you are throwing in suicides, which are most of the gun deaths, and has nothing to do homicides.

In case you are wondering - the death rate from firearms in the USA is 10.2 per every 100k people, every year - more than twice the level in Canada.

And the rate is far lower in Switzerland, where the rate of gun ownership is much higher than either country.

A very good (and short) article in The Atlantic shows that gun deaths in the USA very closely track to how permissive guns laws are - the states with the most restrictive laws average the lowest gun death rates, and the ones with the most permissive laws have the highest rates. The Geography of Gun Violence

The article talks about gun deaths being correlated with "a culture of honor", and a laundry list of other correlations, and he is throwing in suicides, which makes the whole endeavour garbage.

Yup, Alaska has a high suicide rate. It gets dark up there for a long time. So how does a chart that shows Vermont, with no gun control and having a vastly lower firearms death rate than DC, where guns are virtually banned, prove your point?

[Naturist Mark]

Yup, Alaska has a high suicide rate. It gets dark up there for a long time. So how does a chart that shows Vermont, with no gun control and having a vastly lower firearms death rate than DC, where guns are virtually banned, prove your point?

DC and Vermont are outliers, the fact remains that on average those states with more permissive gun laws are the states with more violent gun deaths. And yes that includes suicide. Most suicide attempts are unsuccessful ... unless a gun is used.

Now if you recall my posts on guns in the past you know that I am not a gun-control zealot, but I don't like it when either side replaces fact with fantasy - like the idea that the solution to gun violence is more guns - that is empirically false.

[Skinview]

DC and Vermont are outliers, the fact remains that on average those states with more permissive gun laws are the states with more violent gun deaths. And yes that includes suicide. Most suicide attempts are unsuccessful ... unless a gun is used.

Now if you recall my posts on guns in the past you know that I am not a gun-control zealot, but I don't like it when either side replaces fact with fantasy - like the idea that the solution to gun violence is more guns - that is empirically false.

Well, actually, its empirically true. The number of firearms has been rising steadily in this country, while the murder rate has been dropping. And since 1981, a large number of states have changed their laws to allow concealed carry of a pistol. That experiment has been studied, and it showed a correlation between a drop in violent crime and more gun freedom.
I don't actually think there is a strong causal relationship there, but it does prove that gun control does not lower the murder rate, and gun freedom does not raise it. And those "outliers" are not outliers. They are consistant with the general correlation, and they are the purest examples extreem gun control, and no gun control, and they go exactly opposite of what the antigun people claim should happen.
The truth is that there are other factors that have a vastly greater effect on the murder rate than gun control. It makes it very difficult to get meaningful results by looking at correlations. Throwing in suicides, rather than looking at homocides alone, is just a ploy to manipulate the study to get the answer the gun control people are looking for. Suicide is a whole different issue, and though tragic, what people do to other people is a whole different level of bad than what people choose to do to themselves. We should be more concerned that people want to kill themselves than whether they actually do it. And even if you think its our buisness to stop people from killing themselves, as I wrote elsewhere, Japan has a far higher suicide rate than the US, and the Japanese don't have access to guns.

[jon71]

Isn't that the most fascinating statistic page? Now, the list also includes the gun deaths declared as suicides, accidents and homicides. The suicide rate used to run about 1/3 of the overall amount. As a suicide, I would not include those in the same argument about gun deaths. Someone willing to shoot themselves would be likely to just find another way to complete the task.

Suicides are far more common in households where a gun is present, it just makes it so much easier.

[Gloria]

The Congressional Budget Office released a revised report this week, reflecting the Supreme Court's ruling and indicating that business owners will pay some $4 billion more in taxes under ObamaCare than the previous estimate.

Individuals will be socked with another $1 billion in taxes.

But according to the weird accounting methods in Washington, the law will now cost $84 billion less over the next 10 years. How raising taxes reduces the cost of something is beyond me. Probably because the law will now cover millions fewer people. That's the original problem that was supposed to be remedied by the government's takeover of the health system....er I mean the "Affordable" Care Act.

[Naturist Mark]

Well, actually, its empirically true. The number of firearms has been rising steadily in this country, while the murder rate has been dropping.

There may be a higher number of firearms, but that is not really the vital statistic since it is skewed by the many owners with more than one firearm, not to mention hoarders.

The fact is that the percentage of people owning firearms in the US has been steadily falling, right along with the homicide rate.

[Naturist Mark]

How'd you all like Danny Boyle's tribute to socialized medicine in the Olympic opening ceremonies?

[Boreas]

http://queenofspainblog.com/2012/07/...ng-ceremonies/

Pride should be felt by a nation when they offer a healing hand to the sick. Shame should be felt by Americans who also seem to offer their hand, but only the palm-face up, waiting for it to be filled before they even consider the sick woman reaching up