What is freedom worth to you?

[jon71]

The governments in the mid east don't guarantee freedom of religion because they don't have a constitution that protects that freedom.

That's my point. Our Constitution gives us freedom of religion. They don't have that. Therefore we have that freedom and they don't. The idea that the freedoms just magically existed before it was made into law is a very nice fairy tale but it's sad to see supposed adults buying into that. If we did not have the first amendment either federal or state govt.s could establish or outlaw religions as they pleased. Some "tea partiers" would be happy to do this now. I don't live too far from Murfreesboro Tennessee where some people did all they could to prevent a mosque from being built. They claimed that Islam isn't a "real" religion, they committed arson and vandalism and even petty quibbling about city counsel by-laws. Only a commitment to the freedom of religion that the first amendment gives allowed that mosque to open. Public opinion in that town never would have.

[Skinview]

Our Constitution gives us freedom of religion... The idea that the freedoms just magically existed before it was made into law is a very nice fairy tale but it's sad to see supposed adults buying into that.

Adults like Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and every other signer to the Declaration of Independence?

[jon71]

Adults like Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and every other signer to the Declaration of Independence?

I don't know if you're right that any one of them believed that but if they did they were just accepting a popular fairy tale of their day. It's always fun to cite the founding fathers when they agree with you, or when you think you can spin it to make it look that way whether it's true or not, but taking a worshipful attitude towards them is foolish. Keep in mind more than half of them thought slavery was o.k. and not a single one considered letting women have the right to vote. Are you with them on those issues as well?

[Gloria]

The Constitution gave us the FREEDOM of religion.

No it does not. It PROTECTS that freedom and it is pretty clear on that.

If a freedom or a right was granted by the Constitution it would be written something like California's Constitution in the matter of education:

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 9 EDUCATION


SEC. 5. The Legislature shall provide for a system of common
schools by which a free school shall be kept up and supported in each
district at least six months in every year, after the first year in
which a school has been established.

Notice "shall provide". That gives everyone in California the RIGHT to a free education.

Compare that to the first amendment of the Constitution of the U.S.:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

"..shall make no law" PROHIBITS the government from doing something. So where did these rights come from if the U.S. government did not grant or give them to us???

Remember the word Unalienable........

"Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred." Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1523:

You can not surrender, sell or transfer unalienable rights, they are a gift from the creator to the individual and can not under any circumstances be surrendered or taken. All individual's have unalienable rights.

[Gloria]

That's my point. Our Constitution gives us freedom of religion.

No it doesn't. It protects that freedom......see my answer to Kouak above.

They don't have that. Therefore we have that freedom and they don't. The idea that the freedoms just magically existed before it was made into law is a very nice fairy tale but it's sad to see supposed adults buying into that. If we did not have the first amendment either federal or state govt.s could establish or outlaw religions as they pleased. Some "tea partiers" would be happy to do this now. I don't live too far from Murfreesboro Tennessee where some people did all they could to prevent a mosque from being built. They claimed that Islam isn't a "real" religion, they committed arson and vandalism and even petty quibbling about city counsel by-laws. Only a commitment to the freedom of religion that the first amendment gives allowed that mosque to open. Public opinion in that town never would have.

"If we did not have the first amendment either federal or state govt.s could establish or outlaw religions as they pleased." Now you are getting the idea. Our constitution was written to CONTROL the government.

The Murfreesboro Mosque incident has nothing to do with the U.S. Constitution because the U.S. government was not preventing a mosque from being built. While it is not nice to vandalize or burn down private property there is no federal law against it. I would hope that Tennessee law was very strict with those people because even private property that is masquerading as a religion should be protected by law.

[jon71]

No it doesn't. It protects that freedom......see my answer to Kouak above.



"If we did not have the first amendment either federal or state govt.s could establish or outlaw religions as they pleased." Now you are getting the idea. Our constitution was written to CONTROL the government.

The Murfreesboro Mosque incident has nothing to do with the U.S. Constitution because the U.S. government was not preventing a mosque from being built. While it is not nice to vandalize or burn down private property there is no federal law against it. I would hope that Tennessee law was very strict with those people because even private property that is masquerading as a religion should be protected by law.

Our constitution IS part of the govt. The constitution does not exist outside of the govt., it is the highest law of the govt.

[Gloria]

Our constitution IS part of the govt. The constitution does not exist outside of the govt., it is the highest law of the govt.

The Constitution of the United States is a legal document. Nothing more or less.

[Gloria]

No, Gloria. A non-existent God did give us no freedoms.

You are right, Kari.

It was an existing God who created us AND our freedoms.

[Yogi Bare]

"Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred." Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1523:

You can not surrender, sell or transfer unalienable rights, they are a gift from the creator to the individual and can not under any circumstances be surrendered or taken. All individual's have unalienable rights.

Tell that to the poor Africans who were forced into coming to this country aboard slave ships.

Tell that to those Africans' children, who were born on our soil.

Tell that to the current day slaves around the world, including those women forced into prostitution right here in the United States.

[Gloria]

You're getting passionate, Yogi......

Tell that to the poor Africans who were forced into coming to this country aboard slave ships.

Tell that to those Africans' children, who were born on our soil.

Tell that to the current day slaves around the world, including those women forced into prostitution right here in the United States.

Those poor Africans were forced into slavery by other Africans and mostly Arabians. Lets spread the responsibility where it belongs.
Remember slavery existed before the U.S. became a nation. Tell that to Great Britain.

The current slave trade (still existing in most Islamic countries) around the world does not really come under the protection of our Constitution. If it did, I'm sure our current president would ignore it....not wanting to offend Muslim pals.

Women forced into prostitution here in the U.S. and cross state lines are protected by Federal laws. These laws are mostly violated by illegal immigrants. Of course our current administration is more interested in providing amnesty for those who are enslaving women in our country. Tell that to the DOJ.