What is freedom worth to you?

[Skinview]

No, just the greedy ones.

Do you really think Apple and Nike couldn't make profits if they returned to domestic manufacturing? ... And if we had trade policies like China, Korea, Malaysia and others that protect their domestic markets, wouldn't those profit margins be just as high?

Somebody's profit margins are going to drop, because if stuff costs more, we are going to be buying less stuff.

[Kouak]

No, just the greedy ones.

Tough to argue such self-fulfilling arguments...only the greedy ones are the greedy ones!

[Naturist Mark]

Somebody's profit margins are going to drop, because if stuff costs more, we are going to be buying less stuff.

Consumers represent 70% of US economic activity. Most consumer spending is by the bottom 90%. When US companies make products for the US inside the US, they will employ US workers. Unemployment will go down, wages will go up. Consumers will have more money to spend, and they will spend it. Increased demand will result in increased profits. This isn't an untried theory - this was the economic policy of the USA for nearly 200 years, it built the largest and strongest economy and the largest middle class in the world until it was abandoned in the 1980s. It is the same industrial policy now being followed by the 'Asian Tigers'.

[Naturist Mark]

Tough to argue such self-fulfilling arguments...only the greedy ones are the greedy ones!

There are lots of reasons besides 'greed' (in this case meaning a race to the bottom in exploiting cheap labor and lax safety and pollution laws) for a company to manufacture overseas. In many instances it is the only way to enter foreign markets - China now follows the industrial policy that America abandoned and protects its domestic markets - in order for GM or Chrysler to sell products there they have to build products there. GM has a big stake in Germany, where it's Opel division is one of the top manufacturers. Labor is not cheaper in Germany. Environmental laws are not weaker in Germany. Worker safety laws are not lax there. Why oh why does GM manufacture in Germany? Because they make a lot of money selling those cars to well paid Germans. I suppose if they were really greedy they could make a lot more money building Opels in Bangladesh and selling them to the Germans ... but the Germans won't go for that.

[sdcal]

No, just the greedy ones.

Do you really think Apple and Nike couldn't make profits if they returned to domestic manufacturing? ... And if we had trade policies like China, Korea, Malaysia and others that protect their domestic markets, wouldn't those profit margins be just as high?

If they can't profitably make things here, why do Japan, Germany and many others have assembly plants here? What do they know that our own manufacturers don't?

[Skinview]

When US companies make products for the US inside the US, they will employ US workers. Unemployment will go down, wages will go up. Consumers will have more money to spend, and they will spend it. Increased demand will result in increased profits.

When foreign workers make products for the US, they make money, which they use to buy US products made in the US that are better than the products made in their country. That "will employ US workers. Unemployment will go down, wages will go up. Consumers will have more money to spend, and they will spend it. Increased demand will result in increased profits."

They make shoes, and buy Boeing 777s with the money. The money goes round and round, and we are all richer when we buy stuff from the guy who makes it with the best combination of quality and price. Buying $100 domestic sneakers and jeans is NOT going to make us richer.
Most economists are in agreement with that.

[Naturist Mark]

When foreign workers make products for the US, they make money, which they use to buy US products made in the US that are better than the products made in their country. That "will employ US workers. Unemployment will go down, wages will go up. Consumers will have more money to spend, and they will spend it. Increased demand will result in increased profits."

Then why didn't that happen in the decade before the crash?

In fact, foreign workers will buy products made in their own countries because their governments protect their domestic industries. Oh sure, they'll buy some 'American' products ... but most of them aren't made here - they are made in other foreign factories. That may put some profit in the pockets of wealthy investors, but it doesn't put anything in the pockets of American workers. The circle doesn't close. American workers become poorer and income inequality increases.

[Gloria]

Then why didn't that happen in the decade before the crash?

In fact, foreign workers will buy products made in their own countries because their governments protect their domestic industries. Oh sure, they'll buy some 'American' products ... but most of them aren't made here - they are made in other foreign factories. That may put some profit in the pockets of wealthy investors, but it doesn't put anything in the pockets of American workers. The circle doesn't close. American workers become poorer and income inequality increases.

American workers do not have to become poorer. This is a free country. They are free to better themselves (education, training....if they want) They are free to work for someone else for higher wages. If Free Trade with other countries was really Free Trade there would be no "income inequality."

American workers should not be brought down to some common denominator like income EQUALITY. If they are exceptional workers they should be rewarded for their achievements.
But as long as unions demand income equality, American workers will remain mediocre and foreign workers will outperform them.

[OZJames]

Hypothetically, just suppose that, say, freedom of speech, caused the random deaths of x number of people each year in your country. How big would x have to be before you would outlaw freedom of speech?

I think the answer is, no matter how many people died, freedom of speech should never be outlawed because - The more a country moves away from total freedom of speech the more oppression and death.

If there were many deaths and freedom of speech were outlawed the deaths would not stop because people would continue to make speeches.

[barelynude]

American workers do not have to become poorer. This is a free country. They are free to better themselves (education, training....if they want) They are free to work for someone else for higher wages.

And just were are these employers who will pay more money? They are hiding their millions overseas to avoid paying their fair share of taxes!

And just when are these people working for $12 dollars an hour suppose to find the money and time to get this training? And can you enlighten us on what training will guarantee someone will actually get a job and one that will pay enough to let one repay the cost of the training? In the years past it was possible to get an entry level job with a company and work your way up through the company but seems like now days more companies are downsizing and outsourcing so even those that have been with a company for several years are seeing their jobs going overseas or south of the boarder all in the name of higher profits for people who don't think they have to pay back to the ones who worked for them for years.