Naked man arrested for causing 'an alarm'

[tiger79]

This young man was stupid....

I got criticised for saying that!

[Sanslines]

Even Martin Luther King was selective in how he pushed the limits and made people angry.

Let's look at both Martin Luther King and James Farmer. Martin Luther King did not initially approve of the Freedom Rides. He believed that James Farmer and his group were pushing too much change too fast. James Farmer, on the other hand knew that he had to push harder and harder and from all angles until the system was forced to change. The Freedom Riders certainly pissed off may people in the process but they did force change - a change that Martin Luther King eventually agreed that he was wrong to initially oppose.

Let's also look at another group - the Black Panthers. The Black Panthers were a revolutionary socialist group that forced change upon society. They certaily resorted to radical means to achieve their goals BUT it is extrememly important to understand the conditions at the time under which they operated. Here is the history of the Black Panther Party for those interested in information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party


Let's look at Shirley Chisholm too. She was a black congresswoman from Brooklyn who ran for President in 1972. She knew that she had absolutely no chance of winning the election but she wanted to prove that black people could force change by exercising their right to vote. In the process of her election, she pushed grass roots black and minority voter registration drives and created a real challenge to the white power base. As a result she pissed off many people.

Let's look at the woman's right movements of the 1970's. In the early 70's women did not own credit cards that were issued in their names. The cards were issued in their husband's names because it was accepted that the husbands would pay off their wives bills. Auto insurance companies also charged single women the highest rates for insurance because it was believed that single women would allow their boyfriends to drive their cars thereby creating a higher risk. Women like Gloria Steinham rose up and challenged all of this. She, and other women (like Bella Abzug and others) forced change upon the system and in the process pissed off many people.

[Boreas]

I got criticised for saying that!

I'll probably get criticised as well....it does not seem to be the popular view around here.

[Naturist Mark]

I'll probably get criticised as well....it does not seem to be the popular view around here.

Oh, I called him an idiot myself. That doesn't mean I subscribe to an evidence-free certitude that he had some nefarious agenda.

[usuallylurk]

LURK,

With all due respect, I suspect that you are an older man with older thoughts and have forgotten what it is like to be young and free.

Not quite. 61 is "older" by some standards, but it's the thought process that's young. No, I haven't forgotten. If I had, I wouldn't have stayed in nudism for 32 years.

Young people are not going to conform to all of society's rules. Many will rebel one way or another.

Older people won't, either. How old is the current "hero" of some posters in these boards, Stephen Gough? According to Wikipedia, he was born in 1959, which would make him around 52. One-time activist / publicity-seeker Vincent Bethell was reported to be in his late 20s when he did his thing around 2000-01, but he has seemed to fade from the scene.

At my age, you CAN rebel! This is probably why you find so many older people at nudist venues -- camps, resorts, and skinny dipping holes -- and a dearth of twenty-somethings.

Young people are also not going to stop skinny dipping in illegal or inappropriate places (which include just about all naturist places except private AANR clubs or private property). If you wonder why so many young people do not join organizations like AANR, it is because they will not conform to grandpa's rules and would be bored to death in such places.

A bit of a problem here, Sanslines. Young people don't join organizations like AANR, to be sure. Older people don't either, or they're staying away (or dying off). If you've looked at AANR membership numbers of late, you'd know that.

BUT -- those "young skinny dippers" aren't to be found ANYWHERE. Sure, CFI can get them together for a video -- but I assure you, if you go to a nude beach, or a nude gathering -- you're not going to find very many, with very few exceptions.

Oddly enough - at the resort/club where the Canadian Naturist Festival was held, there were people of all ages there. Haven't seen that in a number of years.

But if you go to the Ledges, you won't find a lot of young people there, either. Or any nude venue.

There really is no mystery as to why youngsters will not become involved with alleged appropriate (whatever that is) nudism in AANR clubs. The only way to understand this rational is to either be young or young thinking. Youth is not only a number, but it is also a midset as I know several 80 and 90 year olds who have never stopped thinking young.

Agreed, except those youngsters won't get involved with ANY nudism, at all.

I bet at one time you were young and did rebel. Now that you are older, you criticize rebelling or anything that falls outside the narrow scope of appropriate nudism.

Oh I certainly did rebel. I don't criticize everything that is, whatever the hell you think is "appropriate nudism". Now appropriate BEHAVIOR -- that's something else. Walking naked by a school, driving through a Mickey Ds drive-up in the nude, is inappropriate BEHAVIOR.

But the reason I'd object -- people in the general public tend to associate us with these self-appointed "pioneers" with nudists. They do not help.

This is to be contrasted -- CONTRASTED, mind you -- with, say, civil rights and gay rights pioneers, who had not only the law of the land on their side, but reason, and public sympathy. Martin Luther King had supporters in all quarters. He reasoned, and engaged in high-profile civil disobedience, along with hundreds, and sometimes thousands of others. Stephen Gough ain't MLK.

Please, don't stereotype me as an old guy who doesn't understand. I **DO** understand politics, public opinion, and the art of persuasion in business and in politics.

And I do understand that a nudist park operator, or those who lobby for, or patronize a well-organized nude beach or venue, have a better chance of success of getting nudism accepted, or at worst, tolerated in the mainstream -- than some guy who walks around town naked or goes through Tim Horton's drive-up window with his pants down.

Rest assured that this is completely normal for throughout history the older generation has always criticized the younger generation - they dislike their music, clothing, language, dancing, attitude, etc and yet the younger generation always seems to grow older, conform to society's crushing standards, and become the next group to turn around and criticize the youngsters.

I don't think so. There aren't any nudist youngsters to criticize, even if I were in the mood to do so.

I'm not criticizing youngsters. I'm criticizing bad behavior. As I said, Gough is in his 50s. But if he were 75, I'd still criticize him. The guy who was arrested for walking nude near a school was not "youthfully rebelling" -- he was behaving badly.

[nimrod]

Now appropriate BEHAVIOR -- that's something else. Walking naked by a school, driving through a Mickey Ds drive-up in the nude, is inappropriate BEHAVIOR.

Yes it is considered inappropriate, but who ever stops to ask why it is? As I said before if it were not for those with perverted minds this "behaviour" would not seem inappropriate.

But the reason I'd object -- people in the general public tend to associate us with these self-appointed "pioneers" with nudists. They do not help.

But was it not self appointed pioneers that started the nudist movement?

[NudePete]

Just an aside.

How can a user who's nickname is usuallylurk get up to 2,317 posts? This of course is a rhetorical question (meaning no answer is necessary).

As you were.

[usuallylurk]

But was it not self appointed pioneers that started the nudist movement?

Yes - in groups, on private property, and they chose to NOT flaunt their nudity or force it on others. They didn't walk through the center of town to make their point, they chose to engage in nudism either on their own property, or in places where it was tolerated and accepted.

They didn't "make their point" through exhibitionism.

[ohioriver]

Yes - in groups, on private property, and they chose to NOT flaunt their nudity or force it on others. They didn't walk through the center of town to make their point, they chose to engage in nudism either on their own property, or in places where it was tolerated and accepted.

They didn't "make their point" through exhibitionism.

So, wouldn't be awesome if somehow we could change the world and someday there would be fewer people who are so judgmental that they view walking down the street naked as exhibitionism? At least in my life, there's nothing about nudism that's exhibitionism. It's about the naturalness of being nude, and the acceptance of my body and others just as we are.... And if ever I walked down the street naked, it wouldn't be about wanting anybody to see my nude body, it would be just because I believe it shouldn't matter whether or not people wear clothes or not... Humans are the only living creatures who seem to think they always must wear clothes. Wouldn't it be awesome if we wouldn't just live nudism as something we do away from other people, but we work to change people's views of nudity for good? So much of nudism is a disconnect from the rest of the world, it's no wonder that so many people don't understand it.

[ibrahim]

Humans are the only living creatures who seem to think they always must wear clothes.

Some dogs also wear clothes now and then - I wonder what they think about it?