Naked man arrested for causing 'an alarm'

[nimrod]

I suggest you study nudist history. Some of the early nudist leaders WERE ordained ministers.

I do not have to since we are saying the same thing, but you do not seem to see that since you want to make it an argument.

Because it's not a social issue, it's a recreational and chosen-mode-of-living issue. Not covered by the 14th Amendment. It's not the same as voting rights, housing rights, etc.

But it is a social issue, it is about rights. As I have said before, not the same as race, but closer to religious rights. Not a chosen mode of living, it is about not letting society dictate how to dress, or not as the case may be.

I really don't know about that. Closer to my home, around 17 months ago, there was a "topfree march" of women in Farmington, ME. Women can go topless in public in Maine, although private establishments can make their own rules, and, frankly, you rarely see a topless woman on the beach, even in the most liberal of communities. The media did poke fun at the demonstration -- but more so over the organizers' attitudes -- they didn't like being photographed, and they didn't like all the men staring.

It is sad to see that they tried once and gave up. One attempt will not work, it has to be many. Once is an abnormality, more trends towards normal.

Perhaps. But, I was making a point as to what reaction you'd probably receive from a community. This thread DID start out as one that described a young adult male's arrest - when he walked nude, and for some reason, chose a school area to do so.

The point I was trying to make from the start is that if nudity was more normalized it would not matter where he was nude. But him being near a school was incidental not intentional.

Let's answer your question, however, about walking nude where it's legal...

The situation at Brattleboro was one of some idiots taking advatage of a good thing. Two things that I can think of that went wrong there was the men coming into the town from out of state, and going into private business' nude. It should have been an example of what is right and using that example to try to change things in your own town.

Well, your assumption that I will do nothing is wrong. DEAD WRONG.

What assumption? I was asking a question.

How about taking nudist vacations to where it IS accepted, and there are nudist businesses, and you patronize those and also businesses in the textile world near there, letting some know that you're there for the nude beach, or nudist resort, or a nude gathering?

Good suggestions here and I think that everyone should do this. But, to me it is still reinforcing the idea that nudity needs to be hidden.

So how about YOU?

Why so angry? I do not have the money to do what you have done. My biggest contribution is trying to convince people that nudity is nothing to be ashamed of, it can be and often is non-sexual, and does not have to be hidden.

[Steve]

Nimrod

hmmm why dont you have the money? lol

you are all talk and no action.

almost 3200 posts and all you can say is "I tell people nudity is ok?" lol

people have their own opinions on nudity-some agree with yours-some mine-and then something else again and again.

[nimrod]

Wow. and you called me antagonistic?

Nimrod

hmmm why dont you have the money? lol

That is none of your business is it?

you are all talk and no action.

almost 3200 posts and all you can say is "I tell people nudity is ok?" lol

people have their own opinions on nudity-some agree with yours-some mine-and then something else again and again.

Before you criticize why do you not tell us what you do to promote nudism. Oh yeah, I forgot you try to tell nudists to stay hidden. You should also know a persons circumstances before criticizing what they do or, do not do. Sometimes it is a matter of can or can not, more then not willing.

[Steve]

Geeze Nimrod.

you really should spend less time posting and more time getting an education to get a better job.

if you literally "dont have the money" find away of doing a bit better to get a more comfortable life.

I did it-made sacrafices-so can you and anyone else. It's called drive and ambition.

regarding my promotion of nudism-I really have no interest. It appeals to a certain segment of the population but I really dont see it ever becoming a "mainstream" interest like baseball, cy cling, golf, etc. It's just not important to me that the general population embraces nudism and I really have other things like a family, house, employment etc that I would prefer to donate my time towards.

you fail to understand "hidden." Naturists certainly dont have to be hidden-they can advertise nudist clubs, get togethers in mainstream media. In fact, when I was in a major city I saw a billboard promoting a clothesfree club that was erected.

but if you think that "hidden" implies that nudists have the right to impose nudism on the larger majority against their will-then you are very wrong.

public areas are for the public at large and have to be comfortable for the majority. Organizing a "nude protest" as you say to overturn laws regulating indecent exposure will only get the group criminal charges, and a dismissal as "fruitcakes and nutjobs and exhibitionists".

[nimrod]

Geeze Nimrod.

you really should spend less time posting and more time getting an education to get a better job.

if you literally "dont have the money" find away of doing a bit better to get a more comfortable life.

I did it-made sacrafices-so can you and anyone else. It's called drive and ambition.

regarding my promotion of nudism-I really have no interest. It appeals to a certain segment of the population but I really dont see it ever becoming a "mainstream" interest like baseball, cy cling, golf, etc. It's just not important to me that the general population embraces nudism and I really have other things like a family, house, employment etc that I would prefer to donate my time towards.

you fail to understand "hidden." Naturists certainly dont have to be hidden-they can advertise nudist clubs, get togethers in mainstream media. In fact, when I was in a major city I saw a billboard promoting a clothesfree club that was erected.

but if you think that "hidden" implies that nudists have the right to impose nudism on the larger majority against their will-then you are very wrong.

public areas are for the public at large and have to be comfortable for the majority. Organizing a "nude protest" as you say to overturn laws regulating indecent exposure will only get the group criminal charges, and a dismissal as "fruitcakes and nutjobs and exhibitionists".

From your attitude I can see you are not worth my time or energy, I will ignore you from now on.

[usuallylurk]

Nimrod, a conversation I can engage in and enjoy.

I do not have to since we are saying the same thing, but you do not seem to see that since you want to make it an argument.

Nay, nay! Just mentioned it. This is not an argument, but a discussion and exchange of ideas.

But it is a social issue, it is about rights. As I have said before, not the same as race, but closer to religious rights. Not a chosen mode of living, it is about not letting society dictate how to dress, or not as the case may be.

But also, it's more than a "mode of dress" issue. Wearing a hajib, yarmulke, veil, clerical garb, even a necktie, is somewhat different than having the right to go nude in public. I might add -- that I know of no industrialized country where nudity is accepted anywhere. The rights for women to wear pants, or a veil, or short sleeves in school, and so forth, have to be contrasted against something that's prohibited nearly everywhere on planet Earth.

(re Farmington topless march
It is sad to see that they tried once and gave up. One attempt will not work, it has to be many. Once is an abnormality, more trends towards normal.

Or the media would ignore it a second time. Or, if it became repetitive, anti-topfree legislation would loom. Re Brattleboro.

The point I was trying to make from the start is that if nudity was more normalized it would not matter where he was nude. But him being near a school was incidental not intentional.

AND THEN ...

The situation at Brattleboro was one of some idiots taking advatage of a good thing. Two things that I can think of that went wrong there was the men coming into the town from out of state, and going into private business' nude. It should have been an example of what is right and using that example to try to change things in your own town.

OK, there's an inconsistency here. When a young man walks around town - and near a school - nude -- it's OK, but when someone comes in from out of town and walks down a Main Street - it's "idiots taking advantage of a good thing" ???? The only differences between the guy whose alleged actions started this thread off, and those who did similar things in Brattleboro, Vermont, are the ages of those who participated (and their residences).

You can't have it both ways. The reaction in Brattleboro was similar to that in the other place, except that in Brattleboro no laws were broken.

Why so angry? I do not have the money to do what you have done. My biggest contribution is trying to convince people that nudity is nothing to be ashamed of, it can be and often is non-sexual, and does not have to be hidden.

You might need money to take a nudist vacation -- that's true. Taking a week's vacation in Florida, or Palm Springs, or Jamaica, or Cuba, etc. does cost money. But you do NOT need money to do some of the things that mrslurk and did -- seeking out places to gather. While it does cost some money to do non-landed things, the cost of attending a typical nudist gathering for a day is not exorbitant. Most of the gatherings I get to go to cost $15 a person, or $25 a couple. If there's dinner, etc., involved, the cost goes up, obviously.

And other than a few gallons of gas, landing the site that has been used for 15 years cost us nothing. As far as promoting nudism, I might add that mrslurk and I staged an "Ice Breaker" dinner at an area restaurant - a non-nude event, inviting couples who might have a reluctant spouse to meet nudists in a clothed, no pressure, ordinary social environment. That cost us nothing, save for a few flyers printed on my laser printer, and our personal restaurant checks. And if someone couldn't afford dinner out, the cost of a soft drink, or coffee, or a brew, would likely be picked up by someone else.

These are things ANYONE can do -- and they're affordable. A day at a nudist resort is also affordable for most single people. In fact, looking at your locale, Yucaipa, CA is only 20 miles from Olive Dell Ranch ....where grounds fees are listed at $16 a day -- $10 for AANR members and students. That's not unaffordable - for nearly anyone. If you can't afford $16 once in awhile to go to a nudist park, or a similar fee to attend another gathering, I don't have an answer for you.

Except - perhaps - you CAN get together and have your own nudist group. We have pot luck gatherings here, and often accept invites to attend them at other people's homes.

Summary - ANYONE can participate in nudism, and the best way to advance it is to DO IT.

[Agde]

...I know of no industrialized country where nudity is accepted anywhere. ...there's an inconsistency here. When a young man walks around town - and near a school - nude -- it's OK, but when someone comes in from out of town and walks down a Main Street - it's "idiots taking advantage of a good thing" ???? The only differences between the guy whose alleged actions started this thread off, and those who did similar things in Brattleboro, Vermont, are the ages of those who participated (and their residences)... The reaction in Brattleboro was similar to that in the other place, except that in Brattleboro no laws were broken.

Quick reset: this thread is about a young Oregonian in Oregon where non-sexual public nudity is not illegal except in specific towns with specific ordinances. He was just in the wrong place.

[Sanslines]

Nimrod, a conversation I can engage in and enjoy.

Isn't it wonderful when someone can meet YOUR standards of conversation and conform to YOUR beliefs of what a enjoyable conversation is all about. Isn't your attitude also a classic example of intolerance towards those that you don't agree with? Just wait until Nim posts a source of information that does not meet your standards (really any source since you don't post sources of information and only present your opinions as gospel).............suddenly the conversation will not be so enjoyable..................

Now, are you done with the subtle 'digs' because I stood up to your arrogance, condescending attitudes, and closed minded opinions? You really are not the messiah of nudism that you think you are - too bad you can't see this.

I am willing to discuss nudism but I am not willing to have some difficult person ignore the facts of a source of information and instead casually dismiss the content as a 'mere student's term paper' because he has no way to dispute the facts of the article. You sir have insulted students everywhere and actually shown an attitude that drives young people away from nudism. This no doubt is a fact that you can't accept either.

[nimrod]

But also, it's more than a "mode of dress" issue. Wearing a hajib, yarmulke, veil, clerical garb, even a necktie, is somewhat different than having the right to go nude in public. I might add -- that I know of no industrialized country where nudity is accepted anywhere. The rights for women to wear pants, or a veil, or short sleeves in school, and so forth, have to be contrasted against something that's prohibited nearly everywhere on planet Earth.

Each case of what is being worn is different, even those your mentioned people will react in a different way depending on where your are, nudity is no different with the exception of where it is accepted.

Or the media would ignore it a second time. Or, if it became repetitive, anti-topfree legislation would loom. Re Brattleboro.

Anything is possible, why focus on the negative? Also women being topless is different from full nudity and is a equal rights issue.

AND THEN...

Nudity would be normal and we would not be having this conversation.

OK, there's an inconsistency here. When a young man walks around town - and near a school - nude -- it's OK, but when someone comes in from out of town and walks down a Main Street - it's "idiots taking advantage of a good thing" ???? The only differences between the guy whose alleged actions started this thread off, and those who did similar things in Brattleboro, Vermont, are the ages of those who participated (and their residences).

You can't have it both ways. The reaction in Brattleboro was similar to that in the other place, except that in Brattleboro no laws were broken.

No inconsistancy here, I never said that what he did was okay. Neither case had much thinking involved and that is the biggest issue. My problem is with you and other people who wish to belittle those who wish to expand nudity away from what society deems acceptable, and neither case was doing that.

If Brattelboro was known as a nudist vacation spot because of the liberal laws and attitudes about nudity, it would not bother me if those men went there for that, but it was not, and it is up to the locals to change those views and not outsiders.

You might need money to take a nudist vacation -- that's true...

You have some good ideas there.

[usuallylurk]

Each case of what is being worn is different, even those your mentioned people will react in a different way depending on where your are, nudity is no different with the exception of where it is accepted.

Agreed - the matter we've been discussing though, concerns how to expand the places where it's accepted. We have different opinions as to how it should be done. The ultimate "opinion shaper", I think, is money. If a community can somehow be convinced that having nude-friendly, nude-permitted areas, will bring in more money and generate more tax revenue, it's an easier sell. If not, the sensitivities of people living in a community would be followed. It's a political necessity and reality. If the majority of a community's residents don't want nudity, no pol is going to allow something they don't like.

Privately, many people DON'T object. Many neighbors don't mind their neighbors' backyard nudity -- but, that's "on an individual basis" situation.

Anything is possible, why focus on the negative? Also women being topless is different from full nudity and is a equal rights issue.

The "negative" is realism. Negative reactions in people who object to nudity can cause negative reactions toward nudists. As far as toplessness being an equal rights issue - I agree fully.

'No inconsistancy here, I never said that what he did was okay. Neither case had much thinking involved and that is the biggest issue. My problem is with you and other people who wish to belittle those who wish to expand nudity away from what society deems acceptable, and neither case was doing that.

If Brattelboro was known as a nudist vacation spot because of the liberal laws and attitudes about nudity, it would not bother me if those men went there for that, but it was not, and it is up to the locals to change those views and not outsiders.

Well - a few things here. The Beaverton situation was apparently NOT well thought out, but I can't get into the head of the guy who was stopped. The Brattleboro situation was - people apparently traveled to that town for the express purpose of being nude on the town's streets.

Brattleboro is NOT a nude vacation spot, but there are many areas in the state where nudity is accepted; as I said, several well-known skinnydipping spots, three nudist parks in a small state, and many places where nudity is tolerated, accepted, and even legal. But downtown Brattleboro - or downtown ANYWHERE in Vermont - uh, no.

You have some good ideas there.

Forgive me for my age. But back around 1979, when I first got into nudism, it was marketed differently. Nudist parks were advertised and promoted by the ASA (which is now called AANR) and its rival, now defunct organization, the National Nudist Council (NNC) as places to go that were ---

- relaxing
- offered a variety of accommodations
- were full of people of all ages (and they were]
- provided fun events, and effective escape for weekends or vacations

- AND THEY WEREN'T EXPENSIVE.

In fact, at a Naturist gathering, I offered the leaders my 1979 ASA Park Guide, which I still have. It just might offer some good ideas for rekindling a spark of interest in North American nudists - for twenty- and thirty-somethings and their families.

As I said, I was pleasantly surprised at an August long-weekend at La Pommerie in St. Antoine-Abbe Quebec. If you're willing to drive there, it's not expensive, there are people of all ages. While it's not luxurious, and in some ways is rustic, it's a VERY comfortable place. Most of all, it turned the clock back for me and mrslurk -- it reminded us of what nudism used to be back in the 70s and 80s, and there were people of all ages. I think it's what a lot of younger people would seek out but they're not finding in a lot of nudist venues.

Barring that -- you can ALWAYS try to get a group of people your own age together, if you're younger. In fact, if you get over to Olive Dell - I haven't been there in 31 years - but you might find a group there. They actively offer a student rate, so if you're a young person, I'd say try it out.