Arkansas anti-nudism law: sensible or silly?

[Steve]

Mark

why so upset? Rocket Man? lol dont know what you are talking about.

it is listed right there from the NAC in the section that pretains to obscenity.

now, I am certainly not suggesting that I believe nudism is obscene, but apparently they do in Arkansas.

if you feel so strongly about it, as I said, move there, and challenge the law. It's really what the people of Arkansas believe-not me-not you.

I am impressed by your qualifications so perhaps you could argue with these people:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/first_amendment

the 1st Ammendment does not protect advocacy of illegal action, fighting words, commericial speech and obscenity. As I stated, if nudism is linked to obscenity (and it appears it is) at least in Arkansas the law in has weight.

NudeM suggested much the same thing. Dont get mad at me for noting what the conditions maybe in Arkansas. As I said, I dont live there. I have visited the state. I have visited Toledo OH as well. Big airport there off the freeway-Chrysler factory etc.

[Naturist Mark]

perhaps you could argue with these people:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/first_amendment

the 1st Ammendment does not protect advocacy of illegal action, fighting words, commericial speech and obscenity. As I stated, if nudism is linked to obscenity (and it appears it is) at least in Arkansas the law in has weight.

You didn't read enough from your source.

Advocacy or promotion of nudism is certainly not 'fighting words' or 'commercial speech' (advertising). Now how about the other two - advocacy of illegal action and obscenity.

1) Advocacy of illegal action does not apply simply because the State declares nudism to be illegal. For the state to be permitted to proscribe such advocacy without running afoul of the First Amendment, such advocacy must be directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action. For example, Bill O'Reilly calling an abortion doctor "Tiller the Baby Killer" and opining that 'something' should be done to bring him to judgement before the law or God is not an incitement to imminent lawless action. But publishing Dr. Tiller's home and work addresses and schedules of where he will be at certain times as part of a 'hit list' is most likely over the line.

2) The legal definition of obscenity as established in the "Miller" test by the US Supreme Court has three parts:

(I) Whether ‘the average person, applying contemporary community standards’ would find that the work, ‘taken as a whole,’ appeals to ‘prurient interest’
(II) Does the work depict or describe, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by applicable state law
(III) Does the work, ‘taken as a whole,’ lack serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.

Clearly nudism, and the advocacy or promotion of it, fails the Miller test for obscenity on the first two criteria, and the third does not apply. For nudism to be legally obscene it would have to satisfy all three.

[Steve]

thanks Mark

now you be sure and contact the law makers in Arkansas and tell them that.

the law against nudism is right in the obscenity section so I will reserve judgement.

and i never said it was fighting words, etc. Nudism is clearly in the obscenity section.

[Steve]

Mark

I am not sure that the ban on nudism fails the miller test in Arkansas. You have to forgive me, but as I recall you wanted to walk around Toledo naked.

Been to Toledo-they would say that is obscene.

like it or not, nudity is linked to sex in the minds of many.

[Naturist Mark]

thanks Mark

now you be sure and contact the law makers in Arkansas and tell them that.

the law against nudism is right in the obscenity section so I will reserve judgement.

and i never said it was fighting words, etc. Nudism is clearly in the obscenity section.

Doesn't matter what is in the obscenity section, it fails the Miller test. Do I need to provide a lesson on Constitutional supremacy?

[Naturist Mark]

Mark

I am not sure that the ban on nudism fails the miller test in Arkansas. You have to forgive me, but as I recall you wanted to walk around Toledo naked.

Been to Toledo-they would say that is obscene.

like it or not, nudity is linked to sex in the minds of many.

I believe I said I would like to be able to go to my mailbox without having to cover up. But sure, let me have the freedom to wander the sidewalks too. Probably wouldn't ever do it, but it would be nice to have the option.

Now people who are ignorant of definitions might call such a stroll 'obscene', but they would be using the wrong word. It might fall under Ohio's public indecency law, but even that is arguable since I wouldn't have the intention to alarm or affront anyone, and the 'likelyhood' of that being an affront is diminished in an age when nudity is on every TV set, computer screen and public events like WNBR, but they can always get you under a "disorderly behavior" type charge. That being said, I'm not advocating anyone be a 'pioneer' by walking nude through the Ohio streets. Don't conflate 'obscene' with nudity, or even 'indecency'.

[Centauri4]

If you moved to the state of Arkansas and obtained the status of legal resident, then the other way to challenge this law would to be working on getting it repealed. Possibly this would be accomplished by creating a petition, spreading word of its creation and enlisting volunteers to gather as many signatures from other LEGAL RESIDENTS; as many of them as humanly possible.

A well written challenge, or legal position paper describing the reasons why the existing law does NOT serve the people of Arkansas could then be presented to state legislators with majority support. In my belief system even if the Legislator themselves did not agree with the idea of allowing social nudism, IF a majority of their constituents DO then they must step up and present the arguments to the legislative body.

Perhaps I am wrong about the way this works in our present system, or within the existing legislative framework of the State of Arkansas, but proving or disproving a law REPRESENTS the position of the people it serves "sounds like" a solid principle.

~

[WiiDoit]

If you moved to the state of Arkansas and obtained the status of legal resident, then the other way to challenge this law would to be working on getting it repealed. Possibly this would be accomplished by creating a petition, spreading word of its creation and enlisting volunteers to gather as many signatures from other LEGAL RESIDENTS; as many of them as humanly possible.

~

But wouldn't this in be a violation of the law?

(c) It is unlawful for any:
(1) Person, club, camp, corporation, partnership, association, or organization to advocate, demonstrate, or promote nudism;

By passing around a petition aren't you advocating for or promoting nudism?

[Naturist Mark]

But wouldn't this in be a violation of the law?

(c) It is unlawful for any:
(1) Person, club, camp, corporation, partnership, association, or organization to advocate, demonstrate, or promote nudism;

By passing around a petition aren't you advocating for or promoting nudism?

Technically that probably would be a violation of the law, on the other hand, the First Amendment says you have the right to petition the government for the redress of grievances. Yet another way the AR law is unconstitutional.

[Steve]

it doesnt fail the Miller test.

wow! Arkansas not only can prohibit nudism and ban any promotion of it.

I would never have guessed.