Making naturism more acceptable

[Steve]

that's funny Mark, but I really dont think it would go that way.

I think the thing to remember is there are textiles (and I would define them as those who prefer clothing) and nudists who themselves wear clothing all the time-but like to be sans clothing from time to time.

because nudism is a activity and a form of recreation, it doesnt meet any other sort of definition.

likely would it would come down to is selected and segregated areas where one could go to be naked without any sort of legal penalty, and a much larger "textile" area.

likely be marked and fenced off from the main with signs designating the area c/o

really what is the problem with this?

[Naturist Mark]

that's funny Mark, but I really dont think it would go that way.

I think the thing to remember is there are textiles (and I would define them as those who prefer clothing) and nudists who themselves wear clothing all the time-but like to be sans clothing from time to time.

because nudism is a activity and a form of recreation, it doesnt meet any other sort of definition.

likely would it would come down to is selected and segregated areas where one could go to be naked without any sort of legal penalty, and a much larger "textile" area.

likely be marked and fenced off from the main with signs designating the area c/o

really what is the problem with this?

Yeah, the back of the bus is just as good as the front! Separate but equal (only much smaller). We got nothing against 'you people', just as long as we don't have to see you. And look, you get your own water fountains! Woot!

[Stu2630]

Mark

How about a 'Textiles Code' where they agree to segregate themselves, and agree to guidelines on how to behave themselves when in shared areas, and how to go to great pains not to offend naturists in exchange for a small portion of public space set aside for their clothing compulsive use (well out of the view of decent people)?

My suggested "code" would apply to everyone, and my intention was to make it in the interest primarily of nudists.

Textiles do segregate themselves, but as they constitute about 98% of the population, textilism is the default.

Yeah, the back of the bus is just as good as the front! Separate but equal (only much smaller). We got nothing against 'you people', just as long as we don't have to see you. And look, you get your own water fountains! Woot!

That is a dishonest analogy. Nudists are not banned from textile beaches, they are free to use them on the same basis as textiles, just as non-nudists are free to use nudist beaches so long as they follow whatever "Naturist Code"is in place (like no taking photographs etc). Beaches are segregated not according to who or what you are, but according to how you want to behave.

I sometimes wonder why you take this line, Mark. Do you really want to be able to behave in a way that upsets or offends people? Do you really want to force textiles to see you naked?

Stu

[NakedGary]

Quote from Post #1

On your site, in the pics section, there is one very interesting image which shows a large number of clothed spectators watching a nude rugby match in Dunedin.

Here is the full 25:21 Video of the Nude Rugby Match:

Video

http://www.wat.tv/video/rugby-all-bl...19_2exyv_.html

[Naturist Mark]

I sometimes wonder why you take this line, Mark. Do you really want to be able to behave in a way that upsets or offends people?

I want what people find offensive to change so that they can't use their prlckly sensibilities to oppress others. Failing that, yes, I'd rather have freedom even if it offends others.

[Stu2630]

I want what people find offensive to change so that they can't use their prlckly sensibilities to oppress others.

I'm sure you do want people to change their sensibilities to suit your own preferences, Mark, but you are in a very small minority and I think that's an unreasonable expectation.

I also don't share your notion of what constitutes "oppression". Saying "If you want to do A, then please do it in Place B" is not oppression, Mark. It is a pragmatic and reasonable sharing of the public environment.

Failing that, yes, I'd rather have freedom even if it offends others.

That's why we need there to be laws to protect the rest of us from you, because you clearly won't respect our sensibilities.

You are surprising me lately, Mark. I'm sure you didn't used to express such militant views - not as I remember.

Stu

[Steve]

unfortunately it is attitudes like Mark's that are a reason of why the nudist state is where it is.

nudists wear clothes all the time. Now that fall is coming, and then winter all nudists in these areas will wear clothes-even if there homes where private and they go outside sans clothes in better weather.

Mark definitely has freedom-free speech and the freedom to move.

[nimrod]

nudists wear clothes all the time.

I know I said I was going to ignore you, but this was too hard to pass up. Do you understand why I would point this out?

[nimrod]

Nudism is not a behaviour it is a chosen mode of "dress". Segregating those who choose to go nude is the same as segregating those who like to wear their hats sideways and their pants down below their butt cheecks. I find that mode of dress offensive because it is an insult to intelligence, do I have the right to tell them, "It is okay to dress that way as long as I do not have see it."? No, so why do a few textiles have the ability to dictate to us where nudity is acceptable?

[Stu2630]

Nudism is not a behaviour it is a chosen mode of "dress". Segregating those who choose to go nude is the same as segregating those who like to wear their hats sideways and their pants down below their butt cheecks. I find that mode of dress offensive because it is an insult to intelligence, do I have the right to tell them, "It is okay to dress that way as long as I do not have see it."? No, so why do a few textiles have the ability to dictate to us where nudity is acceptable?

You are confusing an aesthetic dislike of a particular dislike of a particular sartorial preference with something which is profoundly offensive to the extent that you are appalled at the prospect that your children would see it.

There are many aspects of someone's appearance which people like me find unsightly and even grotesque, but we are willing to tolerate them in the name of human diversity and because, while being visually displeasing, they are not actually offensive. Inappropriate nudity is. To many textiles, the sight of nudity outside of specific and limited circumstances is just as offensive as witnessing an orgy occurring in front of their eyes. We do not want it in our general and shared public environment.

Similarly, in the name of tolerance of human diversity, we should tolerate nudity - but we should do so by providing specific places for the tiny minority who wish to practise it in public.

Stu