Topfree was popular in England back in 1600's

So much for stu claiming things don't change! LOL!
There are pictures of these dresses at the URL.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2004210606,00.html

By TIM SPANTON
PAGE Three Girls have been around a lot longer than anyone thought ? since sixteen hundred and phwoar.

Historians have discovered that the first topless pin-ups appeared 400 years ago. And queens of England led the way by baring their breasts in court circles.

Of course, the camera had not yet been invented. But in early-day versions of Ye Soaraway Sunne, craftsmen carved wooden print blocks showing Page Three Wenches baring their breasts.



The popular publications were called ballads ? 17th century song sheets which reported and commented on current events.

Today we have got our own winsome wench, Nicola T, to wear a costume of the time.

Unlike classical paintings that often depicted the nude female form, these woodcut prints were downright saucy. They were inspired by two Queens who exposed their own boobs.

Charles I?s wife Henrietta Maria had a nipple-revealing dress specially designed by celebrity architect Inigo Jones. Later her husband went topless too ? when Oliver Cromwell cut off his head.

Mary II, who jointly reigned with Dutch-born husband William of Orange after the Glorious Revolution of 1688, was often shown topless.

Professor Angela McShane Jones, 40, of Warwick University, said yesterday: ?In the 17th century it was fairly common for women to bare their breasts in public.

?The fashions were initiated by court members and queens, then replicated by ordinary women and common prostitutes.

?Rather than demeaning women, 17th century fashion could be empowering.

?The extremely low-cut dresses were designed to encourage men to look but not to touch. They empowered some women to use their sexuality.?


Famous diarist Samuel Pepys collected more than 2,000 ballads ? many with Page Three poses.

Professor McShane said: ?Ballads with woodcuts were double the price of those without and had to be constantly updated.

?Pictures of buxom women could be a selling point for a male audience ? and a female one too if they described the latest fashions.

So much for stu claiming things don't change! LOL!
There are pictures of these dresses at the URL.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2004210606,00.html

By TIM SPANTON
PAGE Three Girls have been around a lot longer than anyone thought ? since sixteen hundred and phwoar.

Historians have discovered that the first topless pin-ups appeared 400 years ago. And queens of England led the way by baring their breasts in court circles.

Of course, the camera had not yet been invented. But in early-day versions of Ye Soaraway Sunne, craftsmen carved wooden print blocks showing Page Three Wenches baring their breasts.



The popular publications were called ballads ? 17th century song sheets which reported and commented on current events.

Today we have got our own winsome wench, Nicola T, to wear a costume of the time.

Unlike classical paintings that often depicted the nude female form, these woodcut prints were downright saucy. They were inspired by two Queens who exposed their own boobs.

Charles I?s wife Henrietta Maria had a nipple-revealing dress specially designed by celebrity architect Inigo Jones. Later her husband went topless too ? when Oliver Cromwell cut off his head.

Mary II, who jointly reigned with Dutch-born husband William of Orange after the Glorious Revolution of 1688, was often shown topless.

Professor Angela McShane Jones, 40, of Warwick University, said yesterday: ?In the 17th century it was fairly common for women to bare their breasts in public.

?The fashions were initiated by court members and queens, then replicated by ordinary women and common prostitutes.

?Rather than demeaning women, 17th century fashion could be empowering.

?The extremely low-cut dresses were designed to encourage men to look but not to touch. They empowered some women to use their sexuality.?


Famous diarist Samuel Pepys collected more than 2,000 ballads ? many with Page Three poses.

Professor McShane said: ?Ballads with woodcuts were double the price of those without and had to be constantly updated.

?Pictures of buxom women could be a selling point for a male audience ? and a female one too if they described the latest fashions.

And in direct contrast....

PAEDO FEAR OVER ADVERT May 12 2004








ADVERTISING watchdogs have banned a clothes ad featuring a topless child because of fears that it could encourage paedophiles.

The Advertising Standards Agency said the ad for Armani Junior clothing was offensive and that it 'sexualised children'.

The ad, which appeared in a magazine, received 74 complaints. It featured a long-haired, topless boy wearing baggy jeans and a necklace.

Cyndiann

"The Sun" isn't a newspaper - it's a sort of grown-up comic over here. There may have been some "bawdy" outfits in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries but they were for bawdy parties or for women who worked in brothels. If you look in any costume book you will see that they certainly weren't the norm.

Stu

[S.M.A.]

I think I once read something in a history book that might actually back up this article. I do recall that in the 1600's, women more many dresses with low necklines, and sometimes that would they accidentally contort and bare the woman's bosum. I'll have to look for that book.

[Rex]

Body Packaging, subtitled A Guide to Human Sexual Display, by Julian Robinson, ISBN 0 333 50157 8 is worth having a look at.

"In the early 1800s, for instance, there was a fashion in France for transparent clinging dresses worn with no underclothing."

There's a lot more about women between the 14th and mid 17th centuries "who could afford to wear a fashionably-cut dress" leaving it open all down the front.

Richard Burton in 1621 and "many other contemporary commentators" talk about "women's insatiable lust" at "most of the European royal courts between the 15th and 18th centuries; the court at Versailles, the English court and the court of the Hapsburgs were particularly notorious."

And, by the sound of it, a good time was had by all. All, that is except Sir Stu, who preferred to retire to his chambers and work on his legal manuscripts.

[Naturist Mark]

quote:

---

Originally posted by stu2630:
[qb] Cyndiann

"The Sun" isn't a newspaper - it's a sort of grown-up comic over here. There may have been some "bawdy" outfits in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries but they were for bawdy parties or for women who worked in brothels. If you look in any costume book you will see that they certainly weren't the norm.

Stu [/qb]

---

The Sun doesn't do original journalism. The article was cribbed from an academic paper from the University of Warwick:

http://www.newsandevents.warwick.ac....elease&id=1858

quote:

---

The study by Angela McShane Jones reveals fashions of women displaying their breasts were commonplace and breast baring was a style followed by many, from Queens to common prostitutes. High fashion was led by the court, and copied by all classes.

---

-Mark

[nacktman]

Another point to this topic is that the constriction of the bodice upon the lungs is terrible and by allowing the breast to remain free a woman could literally breath better and did not have to die for fashion, which many of the noble classes did with the prolonged wearing of such clothing.
I perform at area Renaissance Festivals (as well as many others do) and all the females in the cast dash for the backstage areas as fast as they can to "pop out" of their bodices as fast as they can...the sudden mass explusion of pent up air and the resulting mass intake makes for a delightful breeze at the end of the day...LOL
Back these serious...the fashion of bare breasts among women's clothing is a recurring one in the cyclical time that is history...it comes around every so often...the most recent cycle began in the late 1950's and is still climbing toward its apex today, where it will remain for a period and then begin to wane to the point of being "out of fashion" for the masses but it has never actually disappeared entirely and it never will.

[missouriboy]

nacktman, do you suppose those bodices and bustles are what created the need for those "fainting couches" and "smelling salts" of a century and more ago? Lack of steady oxygen to the brain can cause fainting; why was it that only the women needed the above-mentioned amenities back then, hey?

[hm0504]

FYI, here's a story about a pro-voting ad from the European Parliament being censored in Britain and Ireland because it shows a nipple:
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...6&section=news

Pics of the nipple in question can be found here:
http://www.20six.nl/meester_Ernst
(Scan down to the "22 mei 2004" blog.)

Now, I've noticed that some people on this board can find just about anything on the Internet, so kudos to anyone reading this board who can find and post a link here to the actual ad video. Any takers?