Ritual nudity

skyclad85 · #1 07-09-2003, 10:28 PM

Hey all!

I am not Christian. I left the Christian Church as it wasn't quite for me (nothing wrong with it, just not me), and have recently found a new path that interests me - Wicca. There are different traditions within Wicca, just as there are different denominations within Chrisitanity.

Anyway, the group that I want to join and with whom I have been studying, practice ritual nudity. The idea is behind it is that people use clothes as a shield. When you enter the Wiccan religious circle, you must enter in perfect love and perfect trust. Shedding your clothes is an expression of perfect trust.

I haven't been initiated into the circle yet, so I have not practiced any ritual nudity as of yet, but the time it coming! My initiation calls for me to enter the circle 'skyclad' (nude) from the get-go. So, needless to say, my religious life does not in anyway conflict with my choice of lifestyle.

skyclad85 · #2 07-09-2003, 10:28 PM

Hey all!

I am not Christian. I left the Christian Church as it wasn't quite for me (nothing wrong with it, just not me), and have recently found a new path that interests me - Wicca. There are different traditions within Wicca, just as there are different denominations within Chrisitanity.

Anyway, the group that I want to join and with whom I have been studying, practice ritual nudity. The idea is behind it is that people use clothes as a shield. When you enter the Wiccan religious circle, you must enter in perfect love and perfect trust. Shedding your clothes is an expression of perfect trust.

I haven't been initiated into the circle yet, so I have not practiced any ritual nudity as of yet, but the time it coming! My initiation calls for me to enter the circle 'skyclad' (nude) from the get-go. So, needless to say, my religious life does not in anyway conflict with my choice of lifestyle.

BareInBare · #3 07-09-2003, 11:27 PM

Skyclad:

Be wary of certain Wicca groups. I am aware that nudity is practiced among some circles. My wife is Wiccan. She said that certain sects that do ritual nudity hold initiations whereas you have love ceremonies with EVERYONE in the group... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] but I also understand they are few. Other than that, Wicca is a great religion and I am exploring it as a solidary practioner whereas I would also exercise ritual nudity.

Vin · #4 07-10-2003, 05:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by skyclad85:
[qb]...When you enter the Wiccan religious circle, you must enter in perfect love and perfect trust. Shedding your clothes is an expression of perfect trust.[/qb]

MM Skyclad,

Congratulations on finding a spiritual path that fits your beliefs. I think there are several of us around here.

I'm a solitary Wiccan who practices skyclad. In my case, it's mostly about discarding the symbolic barriers to a more direct connection with the God and Goddess. Once you get rid of the various societal "hats" that clothing represents, that connection seems much easier to make.

If your initiation ritual feels right to you and if the group you're joining is a good match, enjoy it and what it represents. You only need to be wary of groups that require you to do things that feel wrong to you. The Great Rite is a part of some ceremonies, but I'm not aware of any groups that use it as an excuse for an orgy. Most don't even include the literal Rite as part of their group practice (and certainly not initiations); it's generally done symbolically with the chalice and athame. The literal act is typically reserved for private practice with a consenting partner. But if you're approaching initiation, you know your circle's stand on this issue.

Welcome home! MM, MP, and MM again!
Vin

Trailscout · #5 07-10-2003, 07:02 PM

In the first centuries of the early church, candidates for baptism were frequently baptised in the nude. It symbolized abandoning all trappings of your old life, being reborn.

In time, the Church assimilated a dislike for the material world and only saw virtue in the spirit realm. This came from Greek philosophy and body shame was the result. Shame had been patched into Christianity, which hithertofore had been a very body-affirming faith. Centuries later, the Christian Renaissance artists began to recognize the basic incompatibility of body shame with our other beliefs. There was considerable opposition to the restoration of nudity to its rightful place in our lives, but the door was at least reopened to a long process of restoration.
We have paid dearly for our long-held mistaken views.

Nudism in America has partially Christian roots by virtue of one of its founders, Rev. Ilsey Boone, but he was widely opposed by those who still did not "get it".

Christian nudism is growing rapidly, I think because we need it so much for healing our souls. Certain elements in the Christian community are putting up much of the resistance to social nudity. We who are part of that community of faith are working to change that, one person at a time. C.S. Lewis, one of Christianity's greatest thinkers in the past century, had a lot of positive things to say about nudity in his novel Perelandra, but few of the Christians who have been inspired by his books of faith have ever read his persuasive pro-nudity statements.

Maybe if churches get back to the ritual of public nude baptism that will be the sign that we have returned to where we are supposed to be.

Vin · #6 07-11-2003, 11:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Trailscout:
[qb] In the first centuries of the early church, candidates for baptism were frequently baptised in the nude. It symbolized abandoning all trappings of your old life, being reborn.

In time, the Church assimilated a dislike for the material world and only saw virtue in the spirit realm. This came from Greek philosophy and body shame was the result....[/qb]

That's beautiful symbolism. Nearly all religious initiation ceremonies seem to have some representation of breaking with the past and embarking on a new future.

I have a question, though (an honest one, not a rhetorical one to start a debate [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] ): why do you say that Christianity's taboo on nudity comes from the Greeks? I was led to believe (in church) that it grew out of the sense of shame engendered by Adam's and Eve's fall from grace. After all, the first mention of body shame in the Bible is in Genesis immediately after they eat of the Tree of Knowledge.

I wonder if there are any modern churches that practice nude baptism?

Vin

skyclad85 · #7 07-11-2003, 12:42 PM

I don't really think that its from the Greeks. Remember that the ancient Greek male use to train and compete in their form of the Olympics in the nude. I think women were banned from the audience, but I also think that the ancient Greeks admired the nude body.

I don't really know if Christian hangups came from the Genesis story in the Bible, or from Victorian times, when women weren't even allowed to show their lower legs.

Prometheus · #8 07-11-2003, 04:01 PM

From what I have read, the Greek connection came from a group known as the Gnostics who were part of the first-century Christian church. They believed that the second coming would come within a few years and they therefore urged Christians to put aside all worldly things to prepare themselves for spiritual reward. I remember one passage in the Christian Scriptures (somewhere in the Epistles I think) that urged people not to marry and similar things for this reason.

I don't mean to say that the Gnostics represented the beliefs of all contemporary Greeks, but it was a philosophy that was influential in the early Christian Church.

luvnaturism · #9 07-11-2003, 04:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by skyclad85:
[qb] Remember that the ancient Greek male use to train and compete in their form of the Olympics in the nude. I think women were banned from the audience. . . .

I don't really know if Christian hangups came from the Genesis story in the Bible. . . . [/qb]

Women were banned during the Olympic games, but I don't think it had anything to do with nudity. The Olympic games, held every four years at Olympia, were part of highly sacred?and secret to men only?worship rituals. There was a death penalty for any woman who might sneek in to watch.

Women also had their games held every 4 years (alternating between the men's games), and women also competed nude. Again, it was part of the worship ritual. However, men were allowed to observe.

I'm not convinced that "Christian hangups" can be traced to any specific theology or era. Christianity, as with any religion, has always been influenced by the culture of the place and time. Lots of variations have come and gone.

What is new in my lifetime is this strong fear among younger men that there is something wrong with men being nude together in locker rooms or when swimming in secluded places. That hasn't come from religion, at least not in any direct way.

Jochanaan · #10 07-11-2003, 04:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by luvnaturism:
[qb]What is new in my lifetime is this strong fear among younger men that there is something wrong with men being nude together in locker rooms or when swimming in secluded places. That hasn't come from religion, at least not in any direct way. [/qb]

I've noticed that too. At my old job, when we first moved into a new building, there were showers in the back of the men's restrooms. At first there were no curtains separating the shower area from the rest of the restroom, but I remember in a meeting someone, older than myself, suggested that more men would use the showers if curtains were added to separate the shower area. It wasn't long before it happened. Even back then, before I accepted naturism, I thought the whole issue was silly.

But from certain things I've read, a major cause of this fear among younger men appears to be a reluctance to be seen in the nude by possible homosexuals. To paraphrase what I wrote in another post, "Nudity equals sex; homosexuality is bad; therefore nudity among men is bad." And no, this doesn't come from Christianity; even though the Bible is distinctly down on homosexual sex, no theologian to my knowledge has condemned intra-gender nudity, male or female. Still, a lot of good people have been damaged by verbal pot-shots from rabid anti-gays and other antis.

Naturism is a reminder, once and for all, that we don't need to fear our bodies or be ashamed of them. Maybe a little ritual nudity would do everyone good!