Two Assumptions

[TreyS]

Assumption 1: Most people do not visit nude beaches or nudist resorts for reasons of sexual interest.

I would suggest that assumption one reflects what most nudists mean when they make distinctions between nudity or nudism and sex. I would also suggest that it is an assumption that most nudists, myself included, share.

Assumption 2: If sexual interest is part of the purpose of an activity then that activity is probably wrong.

I would suggest that most nudists and nonnudists agree with assumption two. This assumption is problematic with respect to nudism because sexuality is part of everything we do as people (for example, most of us are either male or female). Furthermore, sexual interest can occur in any situation (for example, you might notice someone attractive in front of you in line at the grocery store). I would argue that assumption two leads many nudists to overly dissociate nudity and sexuality. What I think should happen is that nudists should critique societal assumptions about sexuality as they critique societal assumptions about nudity.

[Naturist Mark]

Originally Posted by TreyS

Assumption 2: If sexual interest is part of the purpose of an activity then that activity is probably wrong.

The semantic problem here is that not all nudity is nudism. If the reason for the activity is sexual, it is by definition not nudist, it is nudity for sexual purposes.

That doesn't mean nudists aren't ever sexual, nudists can be sexual, they can also be golfers - but that doesn't make golf or sex a 'part' of nudism. It also doesn't make golf or sex wrong. Circumstances and intentions mean everything.

[David77]

I do not fault people who may enjoy seeing various nude forms at the beach. There may be some sexual overtones upon seeing some of the people on the beach, because the observer is alive and not dead. People are created that way!

The important consideration is the person's acceptable BEHAVIOR, and not his natural inward response (if sick, poor inward respond).

I have enjoyed the nude form for years and drew, painted and sculted the nude form, as well as led the group with nude models. Since I appreciate the nude form in the studio, I would enjoy the nude form at the beach, too.

All in our groups had excellent behavior toward the nude model.

[Agde]

We may be getting a little bit tangled up here. Nudity is a state of being. Sex is an activity. Sexual interest is, well, an interest. I can be interested in tennis, or play tennis, or play tennis nude, or be nude while interested in a tennis match on tv.

The sexuality thing with regard to nudism is that old gender assumptions make nude people, especially women, feel particularly vulnerable to undesired sexual attention or aggressive behaviour, People rarely feel aggressed, nude or not and regardless of gender, by someone's interest in tennis or even a strong desire to be your tennis partner. Sex as an activity is unique because of old values that in a perverse way winked at sexual aggression as somehow uncontrollable. There is consequently a unique need for a clear break with old value assumptions, and this needs to be verified by experience. It is why the slightest hint of sexual soliticatation (eg. by swingers) breaks the naturist compact of trust.

Any "assumptions" really revolve around thought, word and deed. Assumption 1 (that people are not there out of purient interest) handles thought and is a necessary part of the naturist trust compact, Assumption 2 in its current form mixes up intent, expression and action. It is perhaps really trying to say is that any expression of overt sexual intent breaks the trust compact, as does any actual activity with an outright sexual purpose. All this is not saying that sexual interest is not normal, it is just saying that naturist occasions offer a break from being constantly on the alert for Neaderthal behaviour

[Pete Knight]

Originally Posted by Naturist Mark

It also doesn't make golf or sex wrong.

That's only your opinion, personally I think golf is outrageous and should be outlawed.

Pete Knight

[walter05]

Pete;

Golf is holey?

[Pete Knight]

Originally Posted by walter05

Pete;

Golf is holey?

Yes and X18 too! Therefore holier than thou.

[Skinview]

Originally Posted by TreyS

Assumption 2: If sexual interest is part of the purpose of an activity then that activity is probably wrong.

Are you channeling Jerry Falwell??? I think most would think that if sexual interest is part of the purpose of an activity, then that activty is probably fun.

[richo]

Assumption 1 is probably true.

Assumption 2 isn't technically true - it's not that these activities are wrong, it's that they are innapropriate in certain (perhaps even most) settings. If we corellate the two assumptions, then we can state that activities with sexual interest as a primary factor are inappropriate in areas where individuals are explicitly not seeing such activities.

That doesn't make them "wrong", though, and I think it's an important distinction: I think it's very unhealthy (and completely impractical) for naturists to try an excise all forms of sexuality from their activities en masse just to escape some preconceived "bogey man" of sexual exploitation. Sexual activites in the proper setting aren't wrong - with the "proper setting" being some place where people are told to expect such and can pre-emptively opt in or out from experiencing it as they see fit.

I think that's the difference - someone being forced into a potentially sexual situation without prior consent. This *can* include unwanted advances or "oggling", and obviously goes all the way to flat-our rape. Those behaviors can obviously range from the inappropriate to the blatantly wrong, depending on the level of force being used.

But to say that all sexual activity, or activity where sexual interest is part of the purpose, is "wrong" is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I'll bet there are plenty of nudists who have sex at resorts - they just do it where it is appropriate, such as in their own rooms.

[OZJames]

Originally Posted by TreyS

Assumption 2: If sexual interest is part of the purpose of an activity then that activity is probably wrong.

Well if that were the case then almost ALL activities would by TreyS statement be "wrong". I think most men and probably most women (though I cant' speak for woman as I am a man). I understand that throughout a man's life he thinks of sex almost every minute of every day. Women are attractive to us because they are women i.e the opposite SEX. We go to parties, bars, the beach, almost every activity for the purpose of socialising with the opposite SEX. We dream of sex, we have sexual fantasies, we dream of getting married, we watch sexy movies and read sexy books.

If we accepted that any activity WAS WRONG where sexual interest was part of the purpose we might as well stay in bed all day (whoops that might become sexual too) so we would have no option but to commit suicide.

The world revolves around sexual interest. NUDITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.