Public Nudity

MikeJB · #1 12-19-2003, 09:20 PM

Ok. This seems to be a big issue with nudists here, as I have seen several posts in the "legal" section here on Public Nudity so I thought id give my 2 cents worth about it since I wasnt here when people posted those things and some people might be new since then and I just think itd be nice to rehash the issue and see what people think.

That said, what do yall think about simple Public Nudity? Im just talking about your average joe type of person doing whatever they do clothed, except nude. Do you think this is right? Ive also read these posts and many people seem to be swayed by the fact that "well the majority dont like it" or "the law is against me" or "theres so many negative things that could happen to me that its not worth the consequences", so many people dont want to try to be nude or think its right simply for the fact that the majority is against you or the law is or its people's right to not see you and you oughta respect that. WELL, lemme give you a lil info, this same sorta thing happened with the black people and happens with lots of races and cultures *old people, special people, mentally ill people, people disfigured in wars, etc* and most of these people felt for a long time that they shouldnt be seen by the majority or fight for their rights because the people didnt accept them, the laws were the way they were and they just blatantly accepted it and thus got visualized as being different, wrong, bad and just lower than most of society. So thats my basis for being nude in public, should we not be nude in or in view of the public just because it offends them or because the majority is against us or because it might be "illegal"?

My biggest complaint about all of this is that everybody here seems to want society to accept nudism and they say there isnt anything bad about it, well if that was so then why dont you feel its your divine right to go n be nude out in front of people. Why shouldnt they be able to see you or why would something that is supposedly good for you and them be against their rights to force them to see? Also, who exactly is forcing them to see the nudity and also react in the ways they do? Those people CHOSE to look directly at a nudist and those people CHOSE to react violently or run to the cops and report something offensive. Wouldnt it be just as easy for these people to just ignore the fact that someone is nude, even if it bugs them? I mean alot of stuff BUGS us or is INDECENT or WRONG to us in life. Does this mean we oughta run to the cops every time someone does something we dont like? It gets really annoying when people get arrested merely for the fact that they OFFENDED someone. What exactly is offensive about nudism and why should they get to complain to the cops merely because they were OFFENDED? Shouldnt the person actually have to be doing something wrong or illegal before the police could take any action? I mean geez if people can get someone arrested because their nudity just offends the person, then couldnt they get someone arrested for being black because it offends them or talking about their religion because it offends them? Most of these laws say that nudity is indecent and if you are doing INDECENT EXPOSURE or are OFFENDING someone with your exposure then you get in trouble, most of the time the laws dont even say WHAT parts are indecent or what sort of ways someone needs to be offending anyone before the police can take action. Im just thinking that, you should be able to be nude almost anywhere unless you are causing some sort of crime or harming someone *physically*, not just offending them, just like a clothed person would be treated, nudity shouldnt be any different and it shouldnt matter who sees it either, kids, adults, old people, anybody. I know im probably gonna get flammed for this post but I just thought id put my two cents in.

MikeJB · #2 12-19-2003, 09:20 PM

Ok. This seems to be a big issue with nudists here, as I have seen several posts in the "legal" section here on Public Nudity so I thought id give my 2 cents worth about it since I wasnt here when people posted those things and some people might be new since then and I just think itd be nice to rehash the issue and see what people think.

That said, what do yall think about simple Public Nudity? Im just talking about your average joe type of person doing whatever they do clothed, except nude. Do you think this is right? Ive also read these posts and many people seem to be swayed by the fact that "well the majority dont like it" or "the law is against me" or "theres so many negative things that could happen to me that its not worth the consequences", so many people dont want to try to be nude or think its right simply for the fact that the majority is against you or the law is or its people's right to not see you and you oughta respect that. WELL, lemme give you a lil info, this same sorta thing happened with the black people and happens with lots of races and cultures *old people, special people, mentally ill people, people disfigured in wars, etc* and most of these people felt for a long time that they shouldnt be seen by the majority or fight for their rights because the people didnt accept them, the laws were the way they were and they just blatantly accepted it and thus got visualized as being different, wrong, bad and just lower than most of society. So thats my basis for being nude in public, should we not be nude in or in view of the public just because it offends them or because the majority is against us or because it might be "illegal"?

My biggest complaint about all of this is that everybody here seems to want society to accept nudism and they say there isnt anything bad about it, well if that was so then why dont you feel its your divine right to go n be nude out in front of people. Why shouldnt they be able to see you or why would something that is supposedly good for you and them be against their rights to force them to see? Also, who exactly is forcing them to see the nudity and also react in the ways they do? Those people CHOSE to look directly at a nudist and those people CHOSE to react violently or run to the cops and report something offensive. Wouldnt it be just as easy for these people to just ignore the fact that someone is nude, even if it bugs them? I mean alot of stuff BUGS us or is INDECENT or WRONG to us in life. Does this mean we oughta run to the cops every time someone does something we dont like? It gets really annoying when people get arrested merely for the fact that they OFFENDED someone. What exactly is offensive about nudism and why should they get to complain to the cops merely because they were OFFENDED? Shouldnt the person actually have to be doing something wrong or illegal before the police could take any action? I mean geez if people can get someone arrested because their nudity just offends the person, then couldnt they get someone arrested for being black because it offends them or talking about their religion because it offends them? Most of these laws say that nudity is indecent and if you are doing INDECENT EXPOSURE or are OFFENDING someone with your exposure then you get in trouble, most of the time the laws dont even say WHAT parts are indecent or what sort of ways someone needs to be offending anyone before the police can take action. Im just thinking that, you should be able to be nude almost anywhere unless you are causing some sort of crime or harming someone *physically*, not just offending them, just like a clothed person would be treated, nudity shouldnt be any different and it shouldnt matter who sees it either, kids, adults, old people, anybody. I know im probably gonna get flammed for this post but I just thought id put my two cents in.

nudeM · #3 12-20-2003, 04:31 AM

This subject has been brought up several times. It is the consenses that we like to do things such as everyday activities, only nude. But it's those certain "offendees" who don't like to see the naked body, especially the ones who have kids, who will call the police. All it takes is for an individual to call in a complaint, and the police must respond. It is up to the police to figure out if the nudity was being viewed as lewd or not. It is up to the police to either cite you, or give you a warning. If you are cited, then it is up to the judge. It's sad to say, but yes, you could be required to register as a sex offender.

The best way to figure out your neighbors, is to simply ask if your nudity offends them. That is how I was able to go nude in the backyard. I asked the neighbors, and they stated they would not be offended, so I am nude in the backyard constantly. Going nude in the front yard is different. Not only do you have to contend with the neighbors, but also with the general public i.e., paper boy, mailman, trash collector, utilities personnel (meter readers) and the traffic.

It is these organizations that are trying to get the word out, through educating the public, that pure and simple nudity is okay. Being nude is no way connected to wild and lavish "sex" parties. We just like to live life to the fullest and do things around the house, but only without clothes.

#4 12-20-2003, 05:56 AM

Mike

As you're new here you won't have seen all the previous discussion on this subject including all the points you have raised. So let me sum up the argument against public nudity from the point of view of a non-nudist. I apologise in advance to all those here who think I'm just repeating tired old arguments for the umpteenth time, but Mike has a right to know:

People have the right to dress as they wish, or not be dressed at all, on their own property or any other private property out of view of others. They have the right to be naked at naturist venues and on naturist beaches or other places set aside for naturist uses. According to a poll published on this site - by one of your fellow naturists - approximately 2% of the population would describe themselves as naturists. So naturists are a very small minority. Yet a significant number of people comprising many times that proportion - I would argue a majority of the population - find public nudity offensive, embarrassing, shocking and/or unacceptable for other reasons.

Public places belong to all of us. In many cases we pay to own them, we pay for their maintenance etc. The public have no choice but to use certain public places and they are ENTITLED to be as comfortable as possible when doing so. Indeed some public places are made purely to be enjoyed. So how do the authorities - as custodians of these public properties - ensure that they are comfortable and user-friendly? The answer is that they impose and enforce rules, and these rules have to be based on current attitudes, values, mores etc. So public sex is out, as is foul language, as is loud music, drunkenness and, of course, exposure of the private parts.

The point about black people etc is spurious. People don't choose their race or their sex or even their sexuality. They are what they are. No-one should be barred from a public place because of what they are. What is and should be prohibited in public is any wilful BEHAVIOUR that is likely to upset or offend a significant proportion of the populace who have to or want to use that place.

Naturists are as welcome as anyone else in my local park - just so long as they keep their genitals etc. out of sight of my family and myself. That means keeping a pair of shorts on - hardly an onorous requirement, is it? Your preference to be totally nude must be subjugated in favour of the preferences of many more people who would find your nudity so offensive that remaining in that place would be unbearable so they would either leave or call the police. If you want to take your shorts off then go to a nudist beach.

You said: "you should be able to be nude almost anywhere unless you are causing some sort of crime or harming someone *physically*, not just offending them". To me, you being nude in public is every bit as unpleasant and unacceptable as if you threw a bucket of sewage over me. I regard that as real harm in every sense of the word.

You can argue as much as you like that nudity is natural or that my reaction and my family's reaction is illogical but it doesn't change the reality of the situation andit doesn't lessen the suffering and angst.

If I went to a nudist beach then I could expect to see nudity. If I did so and suffered shock as a result then I would have nobody to blame but myself. So I keep away from nudist beaches. But that's not enough for you - or so it seems. You want an established right to expose your private parts to me and my wife and my kids and my elderly parents whenever and wherever it suits you. I hope you will see that I find that totally unacceptable. And I'm not alone in that.

NudeM

"It is these organizations that are trying to get the word out, through educating the public, that pure and simple nudity is okay."

But they know what nudity is. And it's not OK for them. So what are you going to educate them about? Do you think that once they realise that nudism isn't "connected to wild and lavish "sex" parties" they'll say: "Oh! OK then. In that case we don't mind if your stark naked in the local park where the kids are playing, or in the supermarket, or the centre of town"? Somehow I don't think they will.

The public DOESN'T need educating about nudity.

Stu

Rik · #5 12-20-2003, 06:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by stu2630:
[qb] The public DOESN'T need educating about nudity.[/qb]

Never underestimate the ignorance of the public.

Rik

soofreeemateomanian · #6 12-20-2003, 07:04 AM

if everyone was educated stu, There would be textile beaches instead of nudist beaches and if I see you with clothes in a public place in front of my family, I would call the police on you jk lol. The thing stu, is you can't see the big picture can you, you only think of yourself hmm?

magwolf · #7 12-20-2003, 07:07 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeJB:
[qb] Ok. This seems to be a big issue with nudists here, as I have seen several posts in the "legal" section here on Public Nudity so I thought id give my 2 cents worth about it since I wasnt here when people posted those things and some people might be new since then and I just think itd be nice to rehash the issue and see what people think.

That said, what do yall think about simple Public Nudity? Im just talking about your average joe type of person doing whatever they do clothed, except nude. Do you think this is right? Ive also read these posts and many people seem to be swayed by the fact that "well the majority dont like it" or "the law is against me" or "theres so many negative things that could happen to me that its not worth the consequences", so many people dont want to try to be nude or think its right simply for the fact that the majority is against you or the law is or its people's right to not see you and you oughta respect that. WELL, lemme give you a lil info, this same sorta thing happened with the black people and happens with lots of races and cultures *old people, special people, mentally ill people, people disfigured in wars, etc* and most of these people felt for a long time that they shouldnt be seen by the majority or fight for their rights because the people didnt accept them, the laws were the way they were and they just blatantly accepted it and thus got visualized as being different, wrong, bad and just lower than most of society. So thats my basis for being nude in public, should we not be nude in or in view of the public just because it offends them or because the majority is against us or because it might be "illegal"?

My biggest complaint about all of this is that everybody here seems to want society to accept nudism and they say there isnt anything bad about it, well if that was so then why dont you feel its your divine right to go n be nude out in front of people. Why shouldnt they be able to see you or why would something that is supposedly good for you and them be against their rights to force them to see? Also, who exactly is forcing them to see the nudity and also react in the ways they do? Those people CHOSE to look directly at a nudist and those people CHOSE to react violently or run to the cops and report something offensive. Wouldnt it be just as easy for these people to just ignore the fact that someone is nude, even if it bugs them? I mean alot of stuff BUGS us or is INDECENT or WRONG to us in life. Does this mean we oughta run to the cops every time someone does something we dont like? It gets really annoying when people get arrested merely for the fact that they OFFENDED someone. What exactly is offensive about nudism and why should they get to complain to the cops merely because they were OFFENDED? Shouldnt the person actually have to be doing something wrong or illegal before the police could take any action? I mean geez if people can get someone arrested because their nudity just offends the person, then couldnt they get someone arrested for being black because it offends them or talking about their religion because it offends them? Most of these laws say that nudity is indecent and if you are doing INDECENT EXPOSURE or are OFFENDING someone with your exposure then you get in trouble, most of the time the laws dont even say WHAT parts are indecent or what sort of ways someone needs to be offending anyone before the police can take action. Im just thinking that, you should be able to be nude almost anywhere unless you are causing some sort of crime or harming someone *physically*, not just offending them, just like a clothed person would be treated, nudity shouldnt be any different and it shouldnt matter who sees it either, kids, adults, old people, anybody. I know im probably gonna get flammed for this post but I just thought id put my two cents in. [/qb]

magwolf · #8 12-20-2003, 07:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeJB:
[qb] Ok. This seems to be a big issue with nudists here, as I have seen several posts in the "legal" section here on Public Nudity so I thought id give my 2 cents worth about it since I wasnt here when people posted those things and some people might be new since then and I just think itd be nice to rehash the issue and see what people think.

That said, what do yall think about simple Public Nudity? Im just talking about your average joe type of person doing whatever they do clothed, except nude. Do you think this is right? Ive also read these posts and many people seem to be swayed by the fact that "well the majority dont like it" or "the law is against me" or "theres so many negative things that could happen to me that its not worth the consequences", so many people dont want to try to be nude or think its right simply for the fact that the majority is against you or the law is or its people's right to not see you and you oughta respect that. WELL, lemme give you a lil info, this same sorta thing happened with the black people and happens with lots of races and cultures *old people, special people, mentally ill people, people disfigured in wars, etc* and most of these people felt for a long time that they shouldnt be seen by the majority or fight for their rights because the people didnt accept them, the laws were the way they were and they just blatantly accepted it and thus got visualized as being different, wrong, bad and just lower than most of society. So thats my basis for being nude in public, should we not be nude in or in view of the public just because it offends them or because the majority is against us or because it might be "illegal"?

My biggest complaint about all of this is that everybody here seems to want society to accept nudism and they say there isnt anything bad about it, well if that was so then why dont you feel its your divine right to go n be nude out in front of people. Why shouldnt they be able to see you or why would something that is supposedly good for you and them be against their rights to force them to see? Also, who exactly is forcing them to see the nudity and also react in the ways they do? Those people CHOSE to look directly at a nudist and those people CHOSE to react violently or run to the cops and report something offensive. Wouldnt it be just as easy for these people to just ignore the fact that someone is nude, even if it bugs them? I mean alot of stuff BUGS us or is INDECENT or WRONG to us in life. Does this mean we oughta run to the cops every time someone does something we dont like? It gets really annoying when people get arrested merely for the fact that they OFFENDED someone. What exactly is offensive about nudism and why should they get to complain to the cops merely because they were OFFENDED? Shouldnt the person actually have to be doing something wrong or illegal before the police could take any action? I mean geez if people can get someone arrested because their nudity just offends the person, then couldnt they get someone arrested for being black because it offends them or talking about their religion because it offends them? Most of these laws say that nudity is indecent and if you are doing INDECENT EXPOSURE or are OFFENDING someone with your exposure then you get in trouble, most of the time the laws dont even say WHAT parts are indecent or what sort of ways someone needs to be offending anyone before the police can take action. Im just thinking that, you should be able to be nude almost anywhere unless you are causing some sort of crime or harming someone *physically*, not just offending them, just like a clothed person would be treated, nudity shouldnt be any different and it shouldnt matter who sees it either, kids, adults, old people, anybody. I know im probably gonna get flammed for this post but I just thought id put my two cents in. [/qb]

I agree completely with all your comments. I just got a ticket for nudity in a state beach north of Laguna beach in the state park there. I have contacted aanr for help and am going to look into fighting the ticket. There was only adults at the beach (about 10 total people) and one couple (the cop said they were europeans believe it or not) complained. All I was doing was laying out nude and walking down to the water and back... I can't believe how screwed up people are about nudity. Every couple/person who walked by me when close would not look at me. they would look out at the water, down to their feet or straight ahead.. I know cause I watched as they passed. How can they be offended if they weren't even looking when they got close? Unbelievable...!!! I believe that it is the rights of the nude person that are being violated not the clothed who are complaining. If they don't like it, don't look - like if they don't like the shirt you have on they don't report it to the cops to be ticketed or arrested.... However, by complaining and the police giving me a ticket, they have violated my rights to be free and do or be what I want to..!

#9 12-20-2003, 07:18 AM

" I would argue a majority of the population - find public nudity offensive, embarrassing, shocking and/or unacceptable for other reasons.

And you've said that a million times without a shred of proof that it might actually be so. Even in that poll you had a friend do your views weren't supported.

Stop assigning your phobias to most of the population and there will be nothing to discuss.

aunaturelone · #10 12-20-2003, 09:57 AM

quote:
No-one should be barred from a public place because of what they are.

And we are ALL born naked. In fact, I'm naked right now. Therefore I should not be barred from a public place because of what I am. Just as you shouldn't be barred because you impair yourself with textiles.

quote:
The public DOESN'T need educating about nudity.

Not a matter of education. It is a matter of desensitization. Rarely seeing real nudity causes an unnatural and unhealthy hypersensitivity to it when it is encountered.

quote:
The public have no choice but to use certain public places and they are ENTITLED to be as comfortable as possible when doing so.

Not true. There is no entitlement to never be offended or to be at all comfortable. I am deeply offended by having pro-life demonstrators showing images of aborted fetuses in front of my children. However they have an absolute right to do so and I adjust my life accordingly.