A contentious question??

MaxUK · #1 01-02-2003, 02:42 PM

Hi,

This question may have no place on this forum but I'll ask it anyway - it isn't to do with nudity though, it's about religion.

A bad, wicked man becomes a 'Christian' two days before he dies while another man is the world's kindest person, always helping others, selfless and kind and dies without believing in God.

Who goes to heaven and why???

MaxUK · #2 01-02-2003, 02:42 PM

Hi,

This question may have no place on this forum but I'll ask it anyway - it isn't to do with nudity though, it's about religion.

A bad, wicked man becomes a 'Christian' two days before he dies while another man is the world's kindest person, always helping others, selfless and kind and dies without believing in God.

Who goes to heaven and why???

Rik · #3 01-02-2003, 03:22 PM

A contentious answer:

Neither - there is no heaven.

Rik

BillyD · #4 01-02-2003, 04:08 PM

Great question! The Bible gives us much insight on this point. Check out:
Romans 3.9-20. We are all sinners, no matter how "good" we might be.
Isaiah 64.6. All that we call good or righteous that we do is like filthy rags -- compared to the righteousness that God wants to give us.
Ephesians 2.8-10. We are saved by God's grace -- it is a gift. It is not by our works, so no one can be proud of their efforts.
Matthew 20.1-16. Jesus gives us a parable that shows that it is not by how much we have worked or how long we have been with Him, it is the graciousness of God.

So, yes, someone who accepts God at the end of his life (see Luke 23.40-43 for the thief who accepted Christ minutes before he died and received assurance that day, that he would be in heaven)will be saved. As for the other person . . . I can't judge. But if in truth he rejected God and chose non-God, then he did not allow God to be his substitute, he did not accept His gift of grace, so he chooses to stay with sin. And sin will ultimately be destroyed.

Quick answer. There's so much more. Keep seeking.

TXK NUDE · #5 01-02-2003, 05:41 PM

Good answer! A lot of people want to "blame" God for all the evil in the world, or to accuse him of being unfair in the arena of who gets into heaven. The truth is that evil is in the world because of men (See the Genesis account of the Garden of Eden) and that evil leads to death and destruction (Romans 6:23). God desired that none should perish (1Peter 3:9) so he devised a simple plan for redemption from sin and evil (John 3:16) by sending His only begotten Son, Jesus, to take the punishment of sin--death, for us.

All that a person has to do is believe in their hearts, and confess with their mouth that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior, thus accepting His work of grace on the cross, and they SHALL be saved! No ifs, ands, or buts!

Now, a person, no matter how good they are, who rejects this simple plan for eternal salvation, is condemned--on his own, not God's (John 3:17-18). God wants you in heaven with Him, according to John 14. There are MANY mansions in heaven! If you miss it, no one is to blame but yourself!

But the good news is that you don't have to miss out. God still extends His mercy to all who believe, and forgives all our unrighteousness (James 1). You may be the worst sinner, or the most gentle and saintly soul, but He will forgive all your sins, though they be as scarlet, He'll make them white as snow. This is that same God that is being blamed for all the evil in the world! He is so loving and forgiving! All you have to do is believe His word, and accept His plan to be saved!

Any soul lost to eternity is lost by their own free will, and choice. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Don't ignore God's warning. You've read the truth, how will you respond?

#6 01-02-2003, 10:30 PM

I realize how unfair it seems that someone who lives a good (by man's standards) life would not be accepted into heaven.

It seems equally unfair that a person can live a selfish rotten life and then die and go to heaven.

However, God is supreme and sets the standards to which He expects us to adhere. Of course, He will help us to reach the standard which He has set for us. He doesn't expect us to do something on our own that He knows we can't do--reach perfection. He has provided a way. Sin entered the world when Lucifer became prideful and said he wanted to be "like the Most High". Lucifer was an angel and was cast out of heaven. He was instrumental in bringing sin into the world, but I'm sure man would have done that without his help. Mankind doesn't want God interfering in his life. We tend to think that we can do it ourselves, like the child asserting his will and saying, "I can do it myself."

Since we have a God-given will to choose what to believe or what not to believe, we can choose to accept or reject that there is a God, to accept or reject the fact that God says we are all sinners, to accept or reject that there is a heaven for those who accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour and a hell for those who reject Him, to choose to live as we see fit or to live as we believe God wants us to live, and to accept or reject that we are eternal beings who will spend eternity SOMEWHERE. Just where is our choice.

God doesn't want puppets who serve Him only because they have no choice; we do have a choice. You can believe, disbelieve, accept or reject. You can accept the Bible as the word of God or as just a book written by ordinary men. Keep this in mind: the Bible was written by 44 men over a period of 1500 years. Yet it all fits together and points to one Person, Jesus Christ. Everything that was predicted in the Bible up to this point has come true. The rest of the events are future, and they will happen. Believe or it not. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

sojourner · #7 01-03-2003, 12:00 AM

Great question. The previous posts have had great truth to them as well. One thing I'd like to add to the mix is that when we look at others who may be "good people" we don't know their hearts, what is really going on inside of them. God judges the heart and our relationship with Him.
When we look at "Christians", we may be looking at folks whose hearts have not been made right with God but are "Christians" for show. Do they go to heaven? God knows their hearts and only He can answer. Many self professed Christians when they go to the judgment seat will be turned away because their hearts were never right with God.
When He was on the cross, Jesus had two criminals on either side of him . Initially both made fun of Christ, but one's heart changed and He was granted heaven as his reward.
Do we understand the mind of God? If you search for Him, He wants to reveal Himself to you. History is ripe with people turning away from Him then blaming Him when things go wrong. But those who turn back to Him will be saved.
One other thing to reflect on, He has told us it is not by our works that we are saved but by His grace and our faith and acceptance of Him.

Keep asking those great questions!

Soj

nudistwheelchair · #8 01-03-2003, 12:01 AM

Amen to that

Rik · #9 01-03-2003, 02:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Jon-Marc:
[qb]Since we have a God-given will to choose what to believe or what not to believe....[/qb]

You cannot choose what to believe. You either believe it or you don't: choice doesn't come into it.

Rik

fns · #10 01-03-2003, 04:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Rik:
[qb]You cannot choose what to believe. You either believe it or you don't: choice doesn't come into it.

Rik[/qb]

This really isn't true. Our beliefs are our choice. We choose what thoughts are in our heads. What we think about something then becomes part of our belief system. We choose from the variety of things to believe. I could easily choose to believe the sky is green, and ignore evidence to the contrary. People used to believe the earth was flat, maybe some still do. It's all a matter of choice, I don't believe our brains are pre-programmed.