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does nudism = liberalism?

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  • does nudism = liberalism?

    Just it the general consensus that nudism is mostly practiced by liberals? If so, is it considered by most that conservatives are too rigidly uptight to even be taken seriously as a legitimate naturist? I'm a lover of spirited (and informed) debate and sometimes (ok,most times) I'll take the role of devil's advocate in a conversation and in most cases that role is one of the conservative view and, I've gotta tell ya', I've gotten my share of some pretty severe reprisal and some rather loud and violent reaction to any view not convivial to their own. What do you think, should I just keep my mouth shut and hold the peace or just continue playing?

  • #2
    Since the love of being naked has nothing to do with politics, I see no reason it should track more with one political philosophy than the other.


    • #3
      Owning the Spectrum

      I'd say that there really isn't any way to connect an open minded activity like nudism/naturism with an open minded political preference. There are plenty of conservatives who are nudists. I can see where you are going with this, though, because one would easily think that by being a nudist you are engaging in an activity that is off the norm for most people and therefore a more liberal activity. Anything connected with the term "freedom" is naturally more liberal since a conservative mindframe is less free. I appreciate your idea but I don't think you can quantify it in the group.

      For instance, I am a social liberal but conservative in things like finance and fiscal policy. Hands off me as long as I do no harm but help control policy and fiscal issues that effect the entire country.


      • #4
        I think that social conservatives are, by their very nature, opposed to those practices that are out of the mainstream, including naturism. I know that locally (by locally, I mean Kansas) conservatives - who, sadly, dominate local politics - tried to close down a naturist park and ban naturism statewide. Fortunately, the bill fell through. As I told fellow naturists one night at a swim, in my mind it's impossible to be a conservative and a naturist. So, following that logic, most naturists would be more inclined to be socially liberal.


        • #5
          does nudism = liberalism?


          There are plenty of social and political conservative nudists. I'd even suspect that as a group nudists are more conservative than the general public (at least in the USA). That isn't too surprising since active nudists tend to be older and wealthier, except for the seniors who tend to be more liberal again. In other words nudists are pretty much like everyone else.

          People are perfectly capable of being 'liberal' about nudity and conservative about other things.

          It is an election year, so you will have the easy opportunity to do an unscientific study of nudist political affiliation. At your next visit to a nudist resort go through the parking lots and tally up the different bumper and window stickers. I know that 4 years ago there were a lot more "W" than Kerry stickers. Although it may be hard to tell since a lot of conservatives this year are choosing Obama, then again they will probably not be putting up a bumper or window sticker.



          • #6
            it depends on how you define your terms. i am politically conservative, but also nudist.

            btw, naturist mark, no authentic political conservative would ever vote for obama -- he is without question the most radical, left-wing candidate ever nominated for president by either of the two major parties in the u.s. obama makes george mcgovern look conservative!


            • #7
              Liberals and nudists

              I would say that liberals and libertarians have less problems with nudism than conservatives christians.

              Of course, anybody can be a nudist, including the most radical christians, and many liberals may be quite prude, but I would suspect thoses who want to ban nude beaches to be mostly conservatives.

              I think that it is not a conincidence that nudism is more popular in Europe than in the rest of the World. Europe is more secular and rational (Western Europe).


              • #8
                Originally posted by CHICK View Post
                Just it the general consensus that nudism is mostly practiced by liberals? ... sometimes (ok,most times) I'll take the role of devil's advocate ... What do you think, should I just keep my mouth shut and hold the peace or just continue playing?
                By all means, Chick, keep challenging people's views! A lot of "conservatives" are actually "liberal" and viceversa though, so maybe the first thing is for all debaters to get naked, conceptually speaking

                I always enjoy this conservative/liberal debate since it is so era- and culture-bound. Sometimes politically radical leftists demand the freedom to be nude, other times radical conservatives think government is too big and intrusive and should be far away from personal choice, like what folks do or don't decide to wear. Old-fashioned Indian jains and sadhus are nudists while liberal modernists embrace western clothing norms. The French have one of the best organized national naturist groups but would be hard-pressed to comprehend what naturism has to do with choosing a political party. One of the things Spanish liberals and conservatives easily agreed on was deleting nudity laws. Traditionalists, like in the South Pacific and Caribbean, often have completely different clothing attitudes than compatriot conservatives for whom history starts with colonialization, so who is more conservative? FKK naturists in Germany like the status quo, but does that make them conservative?

                Political scientists will tell you that western liberalism was born out of the Enlightenment. As a reaction against the Divine Right of Kings and such, it emphasized personal liberty on the basis of a system of enduring basic rights. In other words, rights not tradition. Conservatism usually refers to favouring tradition, but there's a split between partisans of the status quo and partisans of going back to an even earlier era (sometimes with a selectively revisionist interpretation). This gets all mixed up because the liberals are also split between "conservative-liberals" who are partisans of laissez-faire (ie. small government, no welfare state) and "liberal-liberals" who are partisans of social responsibilty (ie. active promotion of rights and welfare). It gets more complex...

                Most naturists are probably against the Divine Right of Kings, but, to paraphrase Bertrand Russell's comment about cannibals who decided only to eat missionaries, that may not be sufficient to designate them all as liberals. Ultimately, there are good internal arguments for both liberals and conservatives to support the personal liberty to enjoy some healthful clothes-free time.


                • #9
                  To Agde

                  Well, Agde, if you live in France, particularly if you are French, you know very well that May 1968 was an extremely important date.

                  It was a big social revolution against conservatism. In that time, there was a lot of autorithy abuses, I mean children got physically beaten both by their parents and their teachers, women had far less rights than men, in the universities young men could not go to the rooms of young women, homosexuals were demonized and the lists goes on.

                  Even though the revolution did not succeed politically (Charles de Gaulle kept the power) but socially it was extremely big. Everything changed, and one of the biggest change was the one concerning values. Today, most people in France are secular and there is far more freedom than 40 years ago.

                  But in many ways, the USA is still like Europe was 40 years ago, children are not beaten (I hope), but religion is evrywhere, you have a "don't ask, don't tell rule" in the army, and many people (about 40 milions) do not have a proper health insurance (that part is worse than Europe 40 years ago).

                  So when we talk of conservatives, we are not talking about royalty, because a lot of countries with kings tend to be socialist or liberal like scandinavian countries, Belgium, Spain, the Netherlands...
                  Last edited by Eric6420; 06-11-2008, 12:25 PM.


                  • #10
                    Conservative nudists here

                    We enjoy nudism but are definitely social and political conservatives. We think it ridiculous that liberals often embrace an elitist mindset that they are more enlightened than conservatives. It's a worldview issue, not an elightenment issue. I believe most Americans don't want to become like Europe; we certainly do not. Enjoying the outdoors without clothes is completely separate.


                    • #11
                      I would say it's the trend for naturists to be more liberal.

                      I would say I'm conservative on some things but very progressive on others. For example, I'm pro-life but not just anti-abortion, but I'm against capital punishment and war in general as well. Truly PRO-life.

                      I'm also a big advocate for Fair Trade which is a generally "liberal" idea.


                      • #12
                        We should define "liberal" and "conservative". I consider myself a conservative and I note that many liberals actually have conservative attitudes and values-cf how voters in ertswhile "blue" states have rejected gay marriage and approved tax and spending limits which are usually labeled as conservative stances. I have often found "liberals" to be very narrow minded and dogmatic-they think there is one correct viewpoint and once that "Party Line" is adopted they accept no deviance and consider anyone who doesn't
                        agree with it to be either a heretic or an ignoramus and a bigot with a double digit IQ.
                        I will cite one of my favorite professors from college who introduced me to concept of "illiberalism"-neither liberal nor conservative, but rather narrow minded in a rather erratic fashion without rhyme or reason.
                        Many nudist venues still have a no singles-no single males policy. Is that a liberal or conservative position?


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nuovonudo View Post
                          it depends on how you define your terms. i am politically conservative, but also nudist.

                          btw, naturist mark, no authentic political conservative would ever vote for obama -- he is without question the most radical, left-wing candidate ever nominated for president by either of the two major parties in the u.s. obama makes george mcgovern look conservative!
                          There are quite a few prominent conservatives supporting Obama. But of course if you employ the 'True Scotsman' fallacy, they cannot be considered 'true' conservatives since they support Obama, but that just replaces analysis with tautology.

                          Obama is far from the most liberal, radical or left wing candidate. Indeed he is one of the most conservative of the Democrats by most objective measures. But of course the National Journal chooses who the want to smear as 'liberal' then choose criteria that supports their smear - such as the obvious 'lefty' issue of ethics reform in Congress (apparently only 'liberals' object to sexual harassment of minors by Congressmen). A recent progressive ranking according to a detailed analysis of voting records ranked Obama as 43rd out of 50 Democratic Senators - only 7 Democrats were more conservative than Obama, and 42 were more liberal. Clinton ranked 30.



                          • #14
                            obama the conservative?!?!? yeah right.

                            1. obama has the most liberal voting record of anyone currently in the senate -- a 100 percent "liberal" ranking (and, if i'm not mistaken, the rankings were done by a "liberal" organization, not right-wing reactionaries).

                            2. obama's ideas and policy pronouncements (which have been few and far between, by the way--mostly his speeches have been eloquent fluff void of substance) are blatantly leftist. his tax increase and spending increase proposals place him solidly in liberal territory.

                            3. regarding the reform of sexual ethics in washington, why is it that only conservatives get held accountable for transgressions in this area? rep. mark foley (a republican) is hounded out of office on the basis of some inappropriate emails. but rep. gerry studds (a dem) keeps his office despite having had sexual relations with an underage congressional page (he had the boy flown out of the country for the tryst so as to avoid violating the letter of the law). and what about barney frank, whose lover was running a prostitution ring out of franks's home -- supposedly with out barney knowing it.

                            perhaps there are some self-styled "conservatives" who, for God knows what reason, have thrown their support behind obama rather than the (not really conservative) john mccain. that does not alter the reality that obama is stereotypically, flamingly, radically liberal. he sees the solution to every problem as more and bigger government spending more of my (and your) money. it is an approach that has failed everywhere it has been tried (can you say "michigan"? "the soviet union"? "cuba"?). no society has ever taxed itself into prosperity.


                            oops, i erred on obama's liberal voting percentage; not 100 percent, but 95.5 percent in 2007, which was slightly higher than in his previous two years in the u.s. senate. the study was reported in the "national journal":

                            Last edited by nuovonudo; 06-11-2008, 04:50 PM. Reason: correction


                            • #15
                              I would really love to know what the current definitions of liberal and conservative are. I live in Canada and most of our politicians would be off the scale according to American definitions. By our standards, Obama is still quite conservative.

                              Having said that, I do not want to start a fight! I can neither label myself liberal or conservative by the standards I see out there these days. I am anti-opression.....I find it highly offensive when people oppress in the name of the church/faith group, or when governments oppress, or just when the more powerful opress the weaker members of society. I am in favour of wise spending as opposed to throwing money at things. Sometimes money does need to be invested into social programs such as education and health care in order for everyone to be able to succeed in this world. Oh, I could go on.

                              Perhaps nudism is a form of a freer thinker. Someone who is not necessarily constrained by dogma, social "norms" and such....though I suppose some nudism could be quite dogmatic.

                              I guess the bottom line is that nudists are people, and we are a variety of thinking styles and political viewpoints.

                              Thank goodness!

                              *please, just don't use the word liberal to shut down someone who disagrees with you.