Park Service won't say how old Grand Canyon is to cater to creationists.

[soundman]

HOW OLD IS THE GRAND CANYON? PARK SERVICE WON’T SAY — Orders to Cater to Creationists. See here.

When is the Park Service ever going to cater to nudists?!

[nacktman]

creationists are the modern day version of the 'world is flat' crowd and are laughed at by everyone with a brain just as the flat-worlders were in their day.

But, just as the PC of the times then, we humor them and pat them on their little heads and send them on to bed early, so we do not have to listen to their whinny drivel because they don't get their way just like any bratty two year old.

As far as catering to nudists ... the park service does in a way ... they usually leave us alone ... harassment comes from those that are the 'flat-worlder' types within and without the park service.

[missouriboy]

quote:

“In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. “It is disconcerting that the official position of a national park as to the geologic age of the Grand Canyon is ‘no comment.’”

"Political Correctness" writ large. I've always held that PC is just a euphemism for "denial of truth" or at least: "ignore the truth." With confirmation like this, I found it unnecessary to read anything beyond the quoted paragraph.

[kphoger]

i personally don't find saying how old the grand canyon "is" to conflict with creationism. god is infinite in power and intelligence; we were created in his image, and we have an inexhaustable thirst for knowledge. i therefore find it unthinkable that god would create the world without a history already attached to it. god created the soil, yet soil is composed of previous life. to me, this is all perfectly commonsense, yet it gets a lot of my brothers in christ upset. i feel the same way about darwinian evolution: just because we acknowledge god's authorship of the world, that doesn't mean it's somehow wrong to study science (even though i criticize darwinian evolutionism as being unscientific at times): it just means we understand that science doesn't give us the ultimate answers to life's root questions.

the park service really is caving in here. i mean, they're not just caving in to creationists in general, but they're caving in to a very specific segment -- the one that believes you can calculate, mathematically from the bible, the age of the earth. these are the "Six Day Nazis," who find it absolutely critical to their religious beliefs that the six days of creation must have been 150 hours, rather than a literary device used to describe god's brilliance, order, and authority in creation.

so, count me as a creationist christian -- yea, i don't even mind the label "fundamentalist" -- who thinks the park service went off the deep end.

[Unwired]

REPOST: I never know whether to laugh or cry when real life begins to resemble The Onion, but I thought this golden oldie was appropriate for the occasion.

BTW, there actually is such a place set to open outside Cincinnati.



Un

[usmc1]

quote:

Originally posted by missouriboy:

quote:

“In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. “It is disconcerting that the official position of a national park as to the geologic age of the Grand Canyon is ‘no comment.’”

"Political Correctness" writ large. I've always held that PC is just a euphemism for "denial of truth" or at least: "ignore the truth." With confirmation like this, I found it unnecessary to read anything beyond the quoted paragraph.

Quite telling, this post of yours.

One, you're confusing religious fantacism with political correctness.

Two, when confronted with something you don't agree with you stop reading.

I needn't write much more. You've self-described a reactionary closed mind.

[hm0504]

Great to hear of the Creationist success with respect to the Grand Canyon! Now, my Creationist friends we must not stop until we have beat back the evil, satanic, anti-Christian teaching that the Earth is NOT the centre of the Universe (and that all things revolve around it) which has become so engrained in our educational and scientific institutions.

For hundreds of years, the Roman Catholic and Protestant branches remained united in backing the Bible's teaching that the Earth is the centre of the Universe and punishing those who dared to oppose this Truth. As Martin Luther said 400 years ago [1]

quote:

"There is talk of a new astrologer (Copernicus) who wants to prove that the earth moves and goes around instead of the sky, the sun, the moon, just as if somebody were moving in a carriage or ship might hold that he was sitting still and at rest while the earth and the trees walked and moved. But that is how things are nowadays: when a man wishes to be clever he must . . . invent something special, and the way he does it must needs be the best! The fool wants to turn the whole art of astronomy upside-down. However, as Holy Scripture tells us, so did Joshua bid the sun to stand still and not the earth."

Alas, even the churches have become soft on this issue with the Roman Catholic church even recenlty stooping to let Galileo off the hook in 1991 for his insolence. [2] [3]

And so it is good to see the Grand Canyon victory; let us look forward to the day when the heresy that the Earth is NOT the centre of the Universe is expunged from modern life!

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism

[2] http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cg...iversity%20ave

[3] http://www.beliefnet.com/story/49/story_4914.html

[Naturist4Ever]

Who needs parkrangers anyway?? (as an European I always wondered about this, we do well without).

Base of canyon (river level) contains rock ~2 Billion years old.

The canyon itself was created over the last 5-6Million years, and mostly really only the last 2Myrs. This is known from the dated lavaflows that cut into the canyon and can only have happened after the canyon was already there.

There is some dispute about the exact datings of the rockformations but not in a way that changes much. It is certainly way before man arrived (this one can tell from the fossils found in the different layers).

It's time the US wakes up to common sense. Happy new year, new reality.

[P.J.]

Those of us who believe in creationism are not "the modern day version of 'world is flat' crowd."

In fact, the Old Testament of the Holy Bible actually teaches that the earth was sphere shaped. Scripture soes not teach that the world is flat.

I believe in God and science. There is no conflict between science and faith.

There is no solid proof that man originated by way evolving from apes.

Although I do not advocate expelling the teaching of evolution from schools, I believe that it should be presented as a theory and presented along with the teachings of creationism.

In secular academic institutions, education should be fair and balanced, with both sides presented, especially when subjects are wrapped in theory and dogma.

By the way, creationism is not exclusively a Christian teaching.

Until more proof is found, I doubt that we can really find clear fact about the origins of mankind. Personally, I don't really care exatly when mankind first walked the earth. There are far more important studies to tackle, such as algebra, biology and social studies.

[Guest]

I am one who believes in evolution. I do not believe in creationism. I am not a Christian nor do I belong to any other faith.

If evolution is to be taught in schools as a theory so should creationism if you want fair and balance.

However, public schools should stay clear of any religious teachings and the Church (any church) and State should be kept separate. I am a firm believer in this.

Allie

[Daveinct]

quote:

Originally posted by Unwired:
REPOST: I never know whether to laugh or cry when real life begins to resemble The Onion, but I thought this golden oldie was appropriate for the occasion.

I thought the same thing as I read the article, sounded like the Onion to me. It's so bizzare it has me wondering if this story is confirmed elsewhere.

Dave

[RalphVa]

I think this change in attitude of the park service is due to the new discovery of what happened after Spirit Lake broke free from its damn created by the Mt. St. Helens blow. A miniture of the Grand Canyon was created in about 20 minutes' time.

The Grand Canyon was carved out by dammed up water being released after the flood upon the earth, probably in 2 days or so time. This dam was probably the high point that the Colorado River now flows through. There's no way the river could have gone through that high point. Whereas, it's easy to have occurred with the mountains being pushed up by the fault in the middle of the ocean, and with the depths of the ocean dropping.

A good bit of the water from the flood came from subterranean water underneath. This shot up, caused the ocean basins to drop and later the mountains to rise. This water than came down as rain and a huge amount of snow in the northern and southern areas that created the ice age, which then resulted in linkages between the continents that went away when the ice melted some.

The fact of the flood is told in more than 200 legends of peoples all over the earth. The flood is what caused the layers of rock and earth that people theorize were geologic periods.

Subterranean waters' evidence is present in numerous underground caverns around the world.

All this, mainly the Spirit-Lake-created canyon, is what probably changed the park service's mind. Haleluyah.

[newton]

As a scientist, I can tell you that it is not possible to teach biology (and I agree that it should be taught) without teaching evolution as a part of the course.

quote:

Originally posted by P.J.:
Those of us who believe in creationism are not "the modern day version of 'world is flat' crowd."

In fact, the Old Testament of the Holy Bible actually teaches that the earth was sphere shaped. Scripture soes not teach that the world is flat.

I believe in God and science. There is no conflict between science and faith.

There is no solid proof that man originated by way evolving from apes.

Although I do not advocate expelling the teaching of evolution from schools, I believe that it should be presented as a theory and presented along with the teachings of creationism.

In secular academic institutions, education should be fair and balanced, with both sides presented, especially when subjects are wrapped in theory and dogma.

By the way, creationism is not exclusively a Christian teaching.

Until more proof is found, I doubt that we can really find clear fact about the origins of mankind. Personally, I don't really care exatly when mankind first walked the earth. There are far more important studies to tackle, such as algebra, biology and social studies.

[NudeAl]

Oh boy, here we go again.

I am not sure why but we seem to be more sensitive to the beliefs of the minority and afraid of giving offense than in years past the phrase kinder and gentler comes to mind. However I think it is neither kind nor gentle to give out or fail to give out information. If the job description, of the park ranger, includes answering questions about the canyon from the public then they should be able to do that. Now, if they want they could preface that info with, well according to the best scientific evidence,...etc. I just see this as another example of the tail wagging the dog and the squeaky wheel getting the grease. This from a Christian.

Let science do it's job and believe whatever you want. I myself have never felt closer to God than when out in nature even better if I am clothed as nature intended.

[hm0504]

quote:

Originally posted by P.J.:
Those of us who believe in creationism are not "the modern day version of 'world is flat' crowd."

In fact, the Old Testament of the Holy Bible actually teaches that the earth was sphere shaped. Scripture soes not teach that the world is flat.
...

Certainly, if the Earth was flat, it would make it much harder for it to be the center, as the Bible says, of a three dimensional Universe.

Like evolution, the idea that Earth is just a planet orbiting the sun in a solar system in some arm of a random galaxy among many should be treated as a theory, not fact. Indeed, when the Church lost its long-fought battle against heliocentrism (the idea planets revolve around the sun), it put mankind on the treacherous slippery slope of sciencism that has now resulted in talk of an Earth billions of years old and in the theory of evolution.