Democrats Six-Point Plan - Does it reflect your vision for America?

[usmc1]

The Democratic Party is committed to keeping our nation safe and expanding opportunity for every American. That commitment is reflected in an agenda that emphasizes the security of our nation, strong economic growth, affordable health care for all Americans, retirement security, honest government, and civil rights.

Honest Leadership & Open Government
We will end the Republican culture of corruption and restore a government as good as the people it serves, starting with real ethics reform.

Real Security
We will protect Americans at home and lead the world by telling the truth to our troops, our citizens and our allies. We believe in a strong national defense that is both tough and smart, recognizing that homeland security begins with hometown security.

Energy Independence
We will create a cleaner, greener and stronger America by reducing our dependence on foreign oil, eliminating billions in subsidies for oil and gas companies and use the savings to provide consumer relief and develop energy alternatives, and investing in energy independent technology.

Economic Prosperity & Educational Excellence
We will create jobs that stay in America and restore opportunity for all Americans, starting with raising the minimum wage, expanding Pell grants and making college tuition tax deductible. We also believe in budget discipline that reduces our deficit.

A Healthcare System that Works for Everyone
We will join 36 other industrialized nations in making sure everyone has access to affordable health care, starting by fixing the prescription drug program and investing in stem cell and other medical research.

Retirement Security
We will ensure that a retirement with dignity is the right and expectation of every single American, starting with pension reform, expanding saving incentives and preventing the privatization of social security.

[usmc1]

The Democratic Party is committed to keeping our nation safe and expanding opportunity for every American. That commitment is reflected in an agenda that emphasizes the security of our nation, strong economic growth, affordable health care for all Americans, retirement security, honest government, and civil rights.

Honest Leadership & Open Government
We will end the Republican culture of corruption and restore a government as good as the people it serves, starting with real ethics reform.

Real Security
We will protect Americans at home and lead the world by telling the truth to our troops, our citizens and our allies. We believe in a strong national defense that is both tough and smart, recognizing that homeland security begins with hometown security.

Energy Independence
We will create a cleaner, greener and stronger America by reducing our dependence on foreign oil, eliminating billions in subsidies for oil and gas companies and use the savings to provide consumer relief and develop energy alternatives, and investing in energy independent technology.

Economic Prosperity & Educational Excellence
We will create jobs that stay in America and restore opportunity for all Americans, starting with raising the minimum wage, expanding Pell grants and making college tuition tax deductible. We also believe in budget discipline that reduces our deficit.

A Healthcare System that Works for Everyone
We will join 36 other industrialized nations in making sure everyone has access to affordable health care, starting by fixing the prescription drug program and investing in stem cell and other medical research.

Retirement Security
We will ensure that a retirement with dignity is the right and expectation of every single American, starting with pension reform, expanding saving incentives and preventing the privatization of social security.

[nudeM]

"Honest Leadership"?

Real security - We are on the way to tell too much of our intentions and the terrorists, and other nations will be able to monitor our activities. I'll wait to see what happens, but I don't think we are going to keep our intentions secret.

Energy independencs - No way with the Dems in charge. We are not allowed to drill, or even explore for natural resources on our own turf. We can't 'harm' the environment for creatures that are on the endangered list. Here in California, there are farms that cannot be used due to destroying the habitat of 'field mice'.

On the coast, the dunes are becoming more and more scarce because we will destroy the habitat of the Snowy Plover, a small bird. Such examples are reasons why we can't search for natural resources due to extreme 'environmental regulations'.

I disagree with the minimum wage. I believe employers should pay fair wages, but I don't agree with the government setting the standards via legislation. This should be left to the private sectors.

If you're talking about a government ran health care system, I am against that as well. True, there are guidelines that should be followed, but I don't agree with the government running the show.

Now making a healthcare system that works for everyone, sure. I'm all for that, but I don't agree with government intrusion.

Retirement system - I agree with you on that. But the Social Security system as it is now, will go broke due to the government 'borrowing' from it. If it would be ran by the private sector, the administrators will get in trouble by doing the exact same thing the government is doing right now. Privatizing the Social Security looks good now, the way the economy is looking good, but if the economy were to take a turn in the other direction, then that would be a disaster.

In short, I don't think the Dems are no better than the GOP, on these particular issues. The economy is looking good due to the GOP's handeling of the budget, but the GOP also got us in the hole deeper "budget deficits", than any other time in recent history.

Being a conservative Democrat, I just don't see the new Congress and Senate making things any better. The represenatives that are going to our leaders, are too far 'left leaning' for my satisfaction. If they run things like they promised, then I would give them the benefit of the doubt, but I just don't see that happening.

Don't get me wrong, the GOP did a lot of things that I disagreed with as well. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[LamontCranston]

I voted maybe, because the categories are right but the explanations lack detail. I'm hoping we can have a discussion here, and not a blow off. These areas do need work.

Energy Independence: does this include a discussion of nuclear power plants?

Retirement Security: FDR did this already. And 20 years ago congress established 401(k) plans for tax-deferred employer matched retirement savings. This is really a pledge that we'll do nothing. As is.

So, is Social Security funded or bankrupt? What's the truth?

Healthcare for Everyone - I'd like people to include a discussion of Medicare and Medicaid when they discuss healthcare issues. Those are government funded programs that provide free health care to people who qualify. So we have it already. Does it work? Effective? You want to expand it? Replace it? What does healthcare for everyone mean?

Honest Leadership and Open Government? Hasn't been one since... my mind reels back over 4,000 years and can't come up with an example. Why will this crop be different? Let's start with an accounting of who financed the campaigns this season. No? OK then, let's move on.

Instead of trigger phrases like, "tax the rich" and "raise minimum wage." please explain the economics behind it.

A person or family cannot get by on a quarter or even two dollar raise in minimum wage. So what does that accomplish?

What you need to do is sell folks on shopping for American made goods and services made using higher cost labor.

Is anyone willing to pay an extra buck for a Starbucks coffee because the barristers need a raise and free health insurance?

Will you pay an extra $1,000 for a Ford over the foriegn makes because labor needs a full retirement benefit and free health insurance starting at 55?

Will you pay me $80k, knowing I'll plow that money back into the local economy, charity, social security, health insurance premiums, and tax base or will you send my job to India for $40k and impress your shareholders?

I don't know the answers but the money must come from somewhere... other than "let's tax the oil companies and WalMart" without accompanying legislation.

These are each difficult problems and I hope we can make progress.

[Sanslines]

Originally posted by usmc1:
The Democratic Party is committed to keeping our nation safe and expanding opportunity for every American. That commitment is reflected in an agenda that emphasizes the security of our nation, strong economic growth, affordable health care for all Americans, retirement security, honest government, and civil rights.


Here we go again implying that the entire Democratic Party is the party of saints and the entire Republican Party is the party of devils. All of these platitudes sound so wonderful and reflect what any government should strive for. It is easy to post goals in simplistic and wonderful sounding terms but the reality is almost always very different from such simple and fantastically beautiful sounding platitudes.

Honest Leadership & Open Government
We will end the Republican culture of corruption and restore a government as good as the people it serves, starting with real ethics reform.

We should rid both parties of corruption. What we have been experiencing over the past few years is not reflective of the true Republican party. In order to rid corruption, it will takes efforts by moderates of both parties to come together and make things happen. The first thing that the Dems need to do is to control the extreme left within their party and allow the moderates and centrists in their party the freedom to come forward and get things done. They will need the cooperation of moderate and sensible Republicans to do this and they very well know this.

Real Security
We will protect Americans at home and lead the world by telling the truth to our troops, our citizens and our allies. We believe in a strong national defense that is both tough and smart, recognizing that homeland security begins with hometown security.

Sounds beautiful and makes for wonderful media sound bites. However, without specifics taken on a case by case basis, this really doesn't mean much.

Energy Independence
We will create a cleaner, greener and stronger America by reducing our dependence on foreign oil, eliminating billions in subsidies for oil and gas companies and use the savings to provide consumer relief and develop energy alternatives, and investing in energy independent technology.

Many states are already engaged in doing exactly that. States are conducting their own research and pursuing green technologies. The moderate Democrats at the national level might advance this by funding additional programs. The realquestion is this. Who will pay for this? Are people willing to pay more for gasoline to fund such programs?


Economic Prosperity & Educational Excellence


We will create jobs that stay in America and restore opportunity for all Americans, starting with raising the minimum wage, expanding Pell grants and making college tuition tax deductible. We also believe in budget discipline that reduces our deficit.

The unemployment rate is actually fairly low and we are definitely not in a recession. Who doesn't want to create jobs? The question is how will these jobs be created? As for budget discipline and balancing the budget this can only be accomplished by two means: raising taxes or reducing spending. How will our budget deficit be reduced? Will people of all income levels tolerate paying more taxes? Will the government ever be able to get a handle on out of control spending?

A Healthcare System that Works for Everyone
We will join 36 other industrialized nations in making sure everyone has access to affordable health care, starting by fixing the prescription drug program and investing in stem cell and other medical research.

What specifically is affordable health care? How does spending on research create affordable health care and who will pay for this research? Is not research presently being conducted and do not the pharmaceutical companies claim that one reason for such high prescription cocts is to cover the numerous legal and development costs of such drugs? Is not part of the problem the enormous lobbying effect and control that pharmaceutical companies have on the government? How about the hold that the insurance companies presently have on the medical system? How will reform the medical system to rid and protect it from frivolous lawsuits while allowing those who were actually hurt by doctors to seek appropriate compensation? How will we prevent lawyers from bilking the medical system as they presently do? How do we break the 'business' hold on the medical establishment and once again allow doctors to treat their patients and make appropriate decisions for those patients without 'business' interference that more or less dictates what a doctor can and cannot do?

Retirement Security
We will ensure that a retirement with dignity is the right and expectation of every single American, starting with pension reform, expanding saving incentives and preventing the privatization of social security.

Many people feel that Social Security funds should be protected by placing them in a 'lock box' where the funds can only be used for Social Security purposes. Al Gore promoted doing this but enormous resistance prevents this from occuring. How will this ever be accomplished? As it stands now, funds are given away all over the world. Will anyone ever go back to understanding the original purposes and reasons for Social Security as proposed in the 1930's - to provide for a level of retirement income for Americans? Privatization of Social Security will never happen as Social Security will never be allowed to be run as a 'for profit' business where there are winners and losers. Anyone who thinks that privatization will be allowed is living a pipe dream.

The bottom line with all of this is that it will be up to people themselves to decide what they want. They will have to make certain sacrifices and additional payments to achieve this. There are NO free lunches in this country and government's role in all of this is to establish goals, educate and motivate people, and get the people to make the changes themselves. The government is composed of both Republicans and Democrats. Hopefully, the more sensible Democrats will be able to force change on the Republican Party by motivating the Republican Party to clean up its' own ranks. In the end, the Democratic Party may do the Republican Party a favor by making that party a cleaner and more effective party. Finally we have a check and balance system that will bring the government back more towards the center and away from the extreme right.

[LamontCranston]

quote:

re: Retirement -- The bottom line with all of this is that it will be up to people themselves to decide what they want. They will have to make certain sacrifices and additional payments to achieve this.

Which already exists with the 401(k) and IRA provisions in the tax code. Money I control. If the Social Security Admin and the Congress cannot handle 12% of the U.S. payroll, then why would we give them control over more? Just don't spend what you have on things other than the intended purpose. Simple really.

quote:

re: Healthcare -- How does spending on research create affordable health care and who will pay for this research?

I'd go one further and ask why the pharmacuticals don't fund their own research. Are they willing to share the profits resulting from the research?

Instead of raising the minimum wage (to buy low income voters), how about price controls on drugs whose research was funded by public money (which will cost PAC money from lobbyists)?

[usmc1]

quote:

Originally posted by nudeM:
"Honest Leadership"?

Real security - We are on the way to tell too much of our intentions and the terrorists, and other nations will be able to monitor our activities. I'll wait to see what happens, but I don't think we are going to keep our intentions secret.

Elucidate please. How are we on our way to telling terrorist organization our secrets?

Energy independencs - No way with the Dems in charge. We are not allowed to drill, or even explore for natural resources on our own turf. We can't 'harm' the environment for creatures that are on the endangered list. Here in California, there are farms that cannot be used due to destroying the habitat of 'field mice'.

I really would like to see the proof of this assertion that there are California farms going unused to protect the environment of "field mice". C'mon dude, that's right in their with the three headed baby from mars that hass been shcked up with Elvis in Madonna's basement.

On the coast, the dunes are becoming more and more scarce because we will destroy the habitat of the Snowy Plover, a small bird. Such examples are reasons why we can't search for natural resources due to extreme 'environmental regulations'.

What is an extreme enviornmental regulation? And precisely what is wrong with our protecting endangered species and/or habitat? Frankly, don't we have enough Wal-Mart parking ltos as it is?

I disagree with the minimum wage. I believe employers should pay fair wages, but I don't agree with the government setting the standards via legislation. This should be left to the private sectors.

But, the private sector does not. If left to its own devices the private sector will pay the lowest wages it can, expand work hours past safe levels, work children, and ignore safety hazards. That is why the government has set regulations. Here's a basic simple fact that you should have learned your first year of college in U.S. Gov 101..The govenment only moves into an area of control when a vacuum exists!

If you're talking about a government ran health care system, I am against that as well. True, there are guidelines that should be followed, but I don't agree with the government running the show.

Now making a healthcare system that works for everyone, sure. I'm all for that, but I don't agree with government intrusion

This is arrant silliness.

The V.A. health care (Governemtn) runs damn well for most of us. Medicare, except for plan D, works pretty well, Medicaid did too. Look, universal, cradel-to-grave, single-payer healthcare is coming. Get used to the notion that we're not going to 45,000 uninsured kids, and taht everyone is entitled to affordable, high-quality health-care.

Retirement system - I agree with you on that. But the Social Security system as it is now, will go broke due to the government 'borrowing' from it. If it would be ran by the private sector, the administrators will get in trouble by doing the exact same thing the government is doing right now. Privatizing the Social Security looks good now, the way the economy is looking good, but if the economy were to take a turn in the other direction, then that would be a disaster.

One, Social Securty is not going broke in the near future. The simple fix is to raise the cap, vada-ving, badda-boom, problem goes away.

In short, I don't think the Dems are no better than the GOP, on these particular issues. The economy is looking good due to the GOP's handeling of the budget, but the GOP also got us in the hole deeper "budget deficits", than any other time in recent history.

Being a conservative Democrat, I just don't see the new Congress and Senate making things any better. The represenatives that are going to our leaders, are too far 'left leaning' for my satisfaction. If they run things like they promised, then I would give them the benefit of the doubt, but I just don't see that happening.

Don't get me wrong, the GOP did a lot of things that I disagreed with as well. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[nudeM]

quote:

Energy independencs - No way with the Dems in charge. We are not allowed to drill, or even explore for natural resources on our own turf. We can't 'harm' the environment for creatures that are on the endangered list. Here in California, there are farms that cannot be used due to destroying the habitat of 'field mice'.

I really would like to see the proof of this assertion that there are California farms going unused to protect the environment of "field mice". C'mon dude, that's right in their with the three headed baby from mars that hass been shcked up with Elvis in Madonna's basement.

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Living smack dab in the middle of the worlds largest food basket, it did happen. It happened in Bakersfield, California. A farmer got sued and was not able to plant his crop due to the endangered field mouse. Please read up on the history before posting your comment. I can't remember what year it was, but it did make the news, at least in the farming community.

[Liam]

quote:

Originally posted by nudeM:
Living smack dab in the middle of the worlds largest food basket, it did happen. It happened in Bakersfield, California. A farmer got sued and was not able to plant his crop due to the endangered field mouse. Please read up on the history before posting your comment. I can't remember what year it was, but it did make the news, at least in the farming community.

This kind of thing has indeed happened. A bigger problem for agriculture comes from building over much of the best farmland in the world. Fresno and Tulare counties are the most productive CA counties agriculturally. Both are loosing farmland at a great rate due to building. The formerly very productive farmland in San Diego and Orange counties have driven out almost all farming due to urbanization. Ventura county is possibly soon to go the same way.

[joeaguy]

Sustainability is a huge issue, and I think one the democrats understand better and I hope will take up. With globalization and privitization we've farmed out everything to the highest bidder, without looking at the long term consequences. We have deregulated energy markets where the rules are stacked so the supplier can set whatever price they feel like with no real incentive to increase supply or find new kinds of supplies. We send jobs overseas, and take other country's resources, and then demand cheap goods without realizing the political unrest we breed around the world by doing so. We overtake farmland to build mcmansions instead of being sure we are able to feed ourselves with healthily grown food, and instead of living in sensible compact communities.

These issues all effect the economey and security of our country. We need balance. We need to put America first and be sure we are able to provide for ourselves with our own resources, and do not squander them.

Some places fortunately have realized this already. Vermont for instance, has very strong movements for local agriculture and energy. In Italy and much of Europe, everyone lives in built up towns and cities, and the country is used almost exclusively for farming.

We need local and national pride and investment back. An end to the fear, reaction, and grabbing at shreds that has been going on in this new millenium so far. We need hope. That is why I vote for the democratic party. It is something I have seen them deliver on the local level, and is something I hope they can deliver nationaly.

[Sanslines]

quote:

The formerly very productive farmland in San Diego and Orange counties have driven out almost all farming due to urbanization. Ventura county is possibly soon to go the same way.

Mission Valley in San Diego is excellent farmland and also a flood plain but was all paved and built over years ago. Massive housing projects are now plannned for the Imperial Valley due east of San Diego (city) along the I-8 corridor. In the next 20 years, you can be sure that Imperial Valley will look more like a suburban paradise rather then the collection of farming communities that it has been for ages. I am not sure why anyone would really want to live there as it gets so hot and infested with huge mosquitos. However, if the projected increase in national population of 100 million over the next 35 years holds true, then all of these people will have to live somewhere and so it will be inevitable that we lose more and more farmland and other protected areas.

As for Orange County, well once upon a time there were acreas and acreas of orange and other citrus groves. Same thing with the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles. As recently as the 1950's the San Fernando Valley was full of citrus growing ranches and the air was full of the sweet smell of citrus. Now, the valley is suburbia and the air reeks of smog. (Just take the 405 fwy north from LA over the mountain pass and look down into the valley.) Progress has indeed 'paved over paradise and put up a parking lot' in those counties and areas too.

[Sanslines]

quote:

We have deregulated energy markets where the rules are stacked so the supplier can set whatever price they feel like with no real incentive to increase supply or find new kinds of supplies.

There presently are plans to vastly increase the USA power grid to bring electricity from where it is generated ie mid west coal and natural gas fired plants to areas where demand keeps increasing ie the east coast. Since it is virtually impossible to build new power plants (even the so called mini power plants) in congested urban areas like the east coast corridor, a viable solution is to string new power lines from coast to coast. Such plans are being strongly opposed as environmentalists do not want power lines strung through national parks and farmland. With an increase of 100 million people in the next 35 years, there will be an enormous need and pressure to expand services ie roads, schools, housing, energy, etc and it is likely that the environment will continue to degrade.

[usmc1]

quote:

Originally posted by nudeM:

quote:

Energy independencs - No way with the Dems in charge. We are not allowed to drill, or even explore for natural resources on our own turf. We can't 'harm' the environment for creatures that are on the endangered list. Here in California, there are farms that cannot be used due to destroying the habitat of 'field mice'.

I really would like to see the proof of this assertion that there are California farms going unused to protect the environment of "field mice". C'mon dude, that's right in their with the three headed baby from mars that hass been shcked up with Elvis in Madonna's basement.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Living smack dab in the middle of the worlds largest food basket, it did happen. It happened in Bakersfield, California. A farmer got sued and was not able to plant his crop due to the endangered field mouse. Please read up on the history before posting your comment. I can't remember what year it was, but it did make the news, at least in the farming community.

Really Nude M, since you're the one making the wild-eyed, unsubstantiated assertion based on something you heard or read from the "farming community" at one time or another, I think it is incumbant upon you to present proof.

But, to help you, and in the Democratic party's ecuemenical spirit of bipartisanship let me point you in this direction: Could you be referring to an instance wherein a farmer was sloshing warfarin in his fields as a rodent control measure and was restrained because this very powerful anti-coagulant poison was running off into streams, rivers, lakes and public water supplies?

See, I can play that game too. You know, put a plausible sounding assertion out there as fact and say, now you disprove that one.

Were I you, I would save my outrage and concern for the "farmer" and direct them at Con-Agra and the banks which have all but eliminated family farms in much of the country.

[hickory1945]

USMC 1

I don't know what you guys have been smoking lately, but you better ease off on a little bit. That must be pretty strong stuff to make you guys so paranoid and hallucinatory.
Hickory

[usmc1]

quote:

Originally posted by hickory1945:
USMC 1

I don't know what you guys have been smoking lately, but you better ease off on a little bit. That must be pretty strong stuff to make you guys so paranoid and hallucinatory.
Hickory

This thread, for me, is interesting in several ways.

1. Your wiseacre comment from nowhere which has no relevance or context or bearing on what is being discussed here. Just some gratuitous half-assed comment. I always wonder if this sort of post provides a safety-valve outlet, sparing us yet another gruesome headline.

2. A third of the respondees to the poll indicate that their vision of America does not include, either all of or in part:

1) Honest Leadership & Open Government
2) Real Security
3) Energy Independence
4) Economic Prosperity & Educational Excellence
5) A Healthcare System that Works for Everyone
6) Retirement Security

One-third, 33% voted that these things were not part of their vision for America. Stangely, or maybe not if you really consider it, that's Bush's current approval rating, and he sure as hell does not include these things in his vision for America.