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  • Excuse me for asking, but...

    Where did we find the $85-billion lying around that we could afford to use it to front AIG?

    And, if we've got that kind of change under the sofa cushions and the change basket on our dresser, couldn't we, shouldn't we use to to develop some jobs for the 600,000 people whose jobs went away last year?

    Or maybe, to fund some health care for people without?

    I mean, well actually, I know, a billion is not what it used to be, right? But you'd think that $85-billion would go a considerable way toward solving some of the problems we have? Wouldn't you?

    And, you'd think maybe New Orleans, or the Mississippi Gulf Coast, or Galveston or Houston, would relish a little taste, now wouldn't you?

    Afterall, $85-billion while not all it once was, ain't exactly hay either, is it?

    And. If I might. Just one other question. Who in the name of holy screeching hell is going to bail out Uncle Sam?
    Last edited by usmc1; 09-17-2008, 01:46 PM.

  • #2
    You and I are going to pay for it. Where else does the government get their money?

    Comment


    • #3
      Daily Kos had an amusing blurb today...

      Long Live the New Union of Socialist Republicans

      Welcome news comrades! We the People are now We the Owners. The People's Insurance Company, formerly known as AIG, was saved for the time being from the forces of capitalism by the new Union of Republican Socialists, formerly known as the GOP. Somewhere in the great beyond, the ghost of Karl Marx is grinning while the spirit of Adam Smith forks over the one dollar bet with an invisible hand:

      Now that the People own a major insurance company, it's fair to ask how the People's Insurance Company, along with the People's Mortgage Companies and the People's Investment Banks, will benefit the People who Own them. Can we expect lower premiums, equity sharing, and corporate perks for our hundreds of billions of dollars? Should we start checking our mailbox for dividend checks? Who gets paid first, claimants, bondholders, stockholders, or we the new taxpayer owners? We the Owners, want to know, and the Union of Socialist Republicans better damn well tell us, fast.
      Humourous, but has some very good points.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CAMERA View Post
        You and I are going to pay for it. Where else does the government get their money?
        The Chinese.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Qikdraw View Post
          The Chinese.
          Since USA does not have adequite money in the coffers, we borrow foreign money, on which we will be paying interest for "ages".

          Comment


          • #6
            The Government and, in some way, US taxpayers will likely make a fortune from the dismembering of AIG which has profitable businesses in almost every country. Critics should also consider that their own home/auto/life/business insurer is almost certainly directly or indirectly interwoven with AIG. Insurance is about sharing risk and insurance companies trade risk with each other. The consequences of a player as large, widespread and complex as AIG failing would be cataclysmic. You should be thanking Hank Paulson et al.

            Comment


            • #7
              I understand it to be borrowed money, either directly or indirectly.

              By borrowed, I mean the U.S. Fed sells government bonds (i.e. collects the money which it is borrowing) in return for a promise to pay it back at maturity (the loan agreement), as well as monthly, quarterly or yearly interest payments (i.e. the carrying cost of the loan).

              Who is buying these bonds? Domestic investors, pension funds, financial institutions, as well as lots of foreign firms and governments. It would be interesting if the proportions of this distribution were available. Who is America indebted to?

              Comment


              • #8
                What I find scary/ironic is that this administration, and the republicans, keep talking about national security, but have added 4 TRILLION dollars of borrowed money onto the national debt. What happens if those countries that hold our debt decide to come collecting? What if they decide to sell that debt for pennies on the dollar? What would happen to our economy?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NudePete View Post
                  I understand it to be borrowed money, either directly or indirectly.

                  By borrowed, I mean the U.S. Fed sells government bonds (i.e. collects the money which it is borrowing) in return for a promise to pay it back at maturity (the loan agreement), as well as monthly, quarterly or yearly interest payments (i.e. the carrying cost of the loan).

                  Who is buying these bonds? Domestic investors, pension funds, financial institutions, as well as lots of foreign firms and governments. It would be interesting if the proportions of this distribution were available. Who is America indebted to?
                  Well here's a chart that answers part of that question. But, you know what, I think there's some very interesting stories buried in there.

                  Take for example Luxembourg. I've been there, nice place to visit, but not exactly a place you'd think of as being one of the primary lenders to the USA.

                  And Mexico? You'd think we be loaning them money. Of course they provide their citizens cradle to grave health, dental, vision care for about $300 a year, and have enough left over to lend to us at a profit.

                  No wonder we've become the butt of worldwide jokes.


                  Foreign owners of US Treasury Securities (April 2008)
                  Nation billions of dollars
                  Japan 592.2
                  China, Mainland 502
                  United Kingdom 251.4
                  Oil Exporters 153.9
                  Brazil 149.5
                  Carib Bnkng Cntrs 115.4
                  Luxembourg 84.8
                  Hong Kong 63.1
                  Russia 60.2
                  Norway 45.3
                  Germany 44
                  Taiwan 42.6
                  Switzerland 42.5
                  Korea 40.5
                  Mexico 38
                  Singapore 33.3
                  Turkey 31.1
                  Thailand 27.9
                  Canada 24
                  Ireland 18.5
                  Netherlands 15.5
                  Sweden 13.1
                  Egypt 12.7
                  Belgium 12.5
                  Poland 12.5
                  Italy 10.6
                  India 10.5
                  All Other 154.2
                  Grand Total 2601.8

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I hear so many people, including my father, talk about how LESS government involvement would be better for our nation and then I see the experts on television explain how AIG is tied into so many 401K retirement plans that its failure would have made Enron look like the collapse of a roadside lemonade stand! WOW!! What was Enron'ss tab? Lower in the billions. I seem to recall the MCI/Worldccom debacle as being only 7 or 11 billion and that it was just "financial misrepresentation". A little bit better I suppose but still very scary!

                    People complain about taxes, government regulation and "oversight committees" but these are the things WE THE PEOPLE have created or allowed to be created over time that allow bailouts to even be possible! I have no idea how this money will be repaid, how long it will take (how many generations) or whether the impact of taxes will be immediately painful or not, but MY FEAR is equal that society (our economy) as a whole would have been knocked farther into the "hurt locker" if this bailout had not happened.

                    I almost wish I had studied economics in school now (these days). I predicted things were going to get worse a few months ago, I didn't know how exactly but I think this sort of justification proves my "gut feeling" was right.

                    Gotta go contribute my effort to the rebuilding of America's economy right now, but maybe I will have time for additional comments later.

                    My BIG question is: "Who's going to be next?"

                    ~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Qikdraw View Post
                      What I find scary/ironic is that this administration, and the republicans, keep talking about national security, but have added 4 TRILLION dollars of borrowed money onto the national debt. What happens if those countries that hold our debt decide to come collecting? What if they decide to sell that debt for pennies on the dollar? What would happen to our economy?
                      Indeed very scary. The Dollar was originally backed by a fixed amount of gold, and exchangeable for same on demand. When that became inconvenient, the gold backing was removed. So what backs the currency now? Go out and buy gold, or something comparable of limited production and high and enduring value.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i'd like to sell my portion back to the government!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by atalanta View Post
                          The Government and, in some way, US taxpayers will likely make a fortune from the dismembering of AIG which has profitable businesses in almost every country. Critics should also consider that their own home/auto/life/business insurer is almost certainly directly or indirectly interwoven with AIG. Insurance is about sharing risk and insurance companies trade risk with each other. The consequences of a player as large, widespread and complex as AIG failing would be cataclysmic. You should be thanking Hank Paulson et al.
                          I agree that this is a case of the government making a huge expenditure which will probably NOT impose crushing debt on generations to come, as some folks in this thread seem to fear. But I can't help relishing the irony that it is the current, Republican, administration that is stuck with having to nationalize a number of big businesses this way.

                          And another thing: we should be asking some very hard questions about how any one player got so large, widespread, and complex that its failing would be cataclysmic. Perhaps it would be better if the economy were more strongly regulated--yes, according to classic economics, a strongly regulated economy is not as efficient at creating wealth. But perhaps we should ask whether efficiency at the price of periodic cataclysms isn't a bad choice. I for one would be happy with modest, steady growth with occasional small setbacks, rather than the screaming roller-coaster ride that a completely free market provides.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Centauri4 View Post
                            My BIG question is: "Who's going to be next?"

                            ~
                            Washington Mutual apparently, and if no one is around to buy it, and the FDIC needs to step in, the FDIC will need a bailout.

                            This is how bad it is, and we still have people claiming everything is fine!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Qikdraw View Post
                              Washington Mutual apparently, and if no one is around to buy it, and the FDIC needs to step in, the FDIC will need a bailout.

                              This is how bad it is, and we still have people claiming everything is fine!
                              Ironic isn't it?

                              Do you think that those people who proclaim that capitalism works best when the government can't interfere and that regulation is tantamount to socialism understand that we are now getting real socialism (our government OWNING a big portion of corporations) because it has to bail out firms that failed due to lack of proper regulation.

                              -Mark

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