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  • "Our entire economy is in danger"...

    says George W Bush. http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/0...v-bailout.html (the comments from readers are also interesting)

    Washington must take immediate action to pull the United States out of a financial crisis that has put its entire economy in danger, U.S. President George W. Bush said Wednesday night.

    He warned that reluctance to pass his administration's proposed $700-billion US financial rescue plan risks wiping out retirement savings, exacerbating home foreclosures, killing jobs, shuttering businesses and causing "a long and painful recession."
    Bush explicitly endorsed several of the changes that have been demanded in recent days, but warned that he would not support regulations he believed could hamper economic growth.
    I am not sure whether to be scared or hopeful. I have gotten halfway through Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism" and wonder if this is a crisis that will cover unpopular policies.

    I am also hopeful because people are supposedly rallying together. I am definitely cynical about this, though one can hope. Right? :confused:

    This is a time where Obama and McCain can show what they are made of. Will the debate go on and also be a forum to show who is more of a leader? Etc.

    Obama rejected McCain's call for a postponement of Friday's presidential debate. He said that, faced with the current financial crisis, it's more important than ever for the debate to go ahead.
    I pray that wise brains and good sense prevail.

  • #2
    May you live in interesting times, as they say.

    Comment


    • #3
      I remember once before when this dry-drunk sociopath and serial screw-up warned of dire consequences if we didn't take action. We took the action and have suffered five years of dire consequences.

      Maybe we ought not listen to him and allow the people to make their voices heard, and for congress to do something constructive for a change.

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      • #4
        Did you see who he was blaming? After I heard he was blaming the home builders for over building and causing the housing bubble to crash, I tuned him out. What a lying idiot. Republicans still can't take responsibility for their actions.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Qikdraw View Post
          Did you see who he was blaming? After I heard he was blaming the home builders for over building and causing the housing bubble to crash, I tuned him out. What a lying idiot. Republicans still can't take responsibility for their actions.
          Increase supply, and the price drops. Economics 101. Go howl at the grave of Adam Smith.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Skinview View Post
            Increase supply, and the price drops. Economics 101. Go howl at the grave of Adam Smith.
            Home builders were not overbuilding to cause a meltdown. The no interest loans came calling after their 3 years no interest clause, and all of a sudden mortage payments tripled. THIS is what caused the problem. All of a sudden there were thousands of foreclosures that came on the market, which was where the glut of houses came from, not from homebuilders. Then the mortgage meltdown of banks came in. Again having nothing to do with homebuilders.

            You know this, but you're being deliberately obtuse.

            I was also there, on the ground and talking with builders every day. I worked with about 10 different home builders and all of them didn't want a repeat of what happened in the late 80's early 90s. So they put houses out in phases and only after a certain amount of a released phase was bought, would they start building another phase. I worked with a cabinet company and I always asked when the next phase was being released, because it directly effected my business.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Skinview View Post
              Increase supply, and the price drops. Economics 101. Go howl at the grave of Adam Smith.
              So now that the new home construction industry has crashed & burned in much of the nation, why are home prices still falling?

              The housing bubble was never about simple supply and demand, and neither is its collapse.

              -Mark
              Last edited by Naturist Mark; 09-25-2008, 07:10 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Skinview View Post
                Increase supply, and the price drops. Economics 101. Go howl at the grave of Adam Smith.
                Howl at? Naw, "whizz" on would be more satisfying!

                Comment


                • #9
                  The 700 Billion Dollar Mugging

                  This was all premeditated.
                  This IS the "October Surprise".
                  It has been planned for years.
                  And yes ... they plan to steal us blind.

                  The proof is call-girl Ashley Alexander Dupre.



                  Ashley, or "Kristin" has no particular connection to the government plan to dump over a trillion dollars of taxpayer IOU's on Wall Street in order to reward Wall Street for it's irresponsibility. She just happened to be the tool used to take down New York governor Eliot Spitzer, who as governor, and previously as Attorney General of New York was one of the only grown ups in government willing to take on the corporate criminals on Wall Street during a time when the Federal government had abdicated its responsibilities and thrown in with the crooks instead.

                  Spitzer was unraveling the bailout mugging plot, so he had to be silenced. It is laughable to believe that random bank audits led to his exposure as a serial "John" as claimed - the eminent legal expert Alan Dershowitz sows overwhelming doubt upon that conceit in The Entrapment of Eliot. He was under intense domestic surveillance - probably of precisely the sort that Bush won't allow to be reviewed by the courts. You'll note that there are still no criminal charges against Spitzer - for good reason - it is doubtful that the evidence could be presented in court if it was derived as a result of surveillance without a warrant.

                  Just one month before he was taken down, Eliot Spitzer wrote a Feb. 14, 2008 Op-Ed for the New York Times titled Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime How the Bush Administration Stopped the States From Stepping In to Help Consumers in which he detailed the Bush Administration's efforts to prevent the States from taking any steps to forestall the current crisis.

                  Even as Spitzer was being taken down, in March 2008, the first $200 Billion dollar installment of the plan was being made. What? Whaddya mean you didn't know the bailout started back in March? Yep, the Fed's Bernanke loaned 1/5th of a trillion dollars to the very same villains we are now promising another $700 billion to. Greg Palast connected those dots back on March 14: Eliot's Mess The $200 billion bail-out for predator banks and Spitzer charges are intimately linked. Add to that the $300 Billion spent on the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, and Bear Stearns episodes. That's $1.2 Trillion in less than 8 months. Someone is cashing out their chips before leaving the casino.

                  Remember Deep Throat's imperative "follow the money", or "follow the honey" in Kristin's case ... she's the link that shows us that this mess was planned well ahead of time, and that even a US governor would not be allowed to stand in its way.

                  -Mark
                  Last edited by Naturist Mark; 09-25-2008, 10:03 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Naturist Mark View Post
                    This was all premeditated.
                    This IS the "October Surprise".
                    It has been planned for years...

                    Spitzer was unraveling the bailout mugging plot, so he had to be silenced.
                    You do love a conspiracy theory, don't you?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Qikdraw View Post
                      Home builders were not overbuilding to cause a meltdown. The no interest loans came calling after their 3 years no interest clause, and all of a sudden mortage payments tripled. THIS is what caused the problem. All of a sudden there were thousands of foreclosures that came on the market, which was where the glut of houses came from, not from homebuilders. Then the mortgage meltdown of banks came in. Again having nothing to do with homebuilders.

                      You know this, but you're being deliberately obtuse.
                      Of course the housing supply was not the only cause of the problem. Are you being deliberately obtuse? But obviously any house built is a part of the glut. Its not all of it by a long shot, but it contributes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Skinview View Post
                        Of course the housing supply was not the only cause of the problem. Are you being deliberately obtuse? But obviously any house built is a part of the glut. Its not all of it by a long shot, but it contributes.
                        Excuse me, but Bush was laying the blame on homebuilders, I said that was stupid, you came back with 'economics 101 increased supply', basically backing up what Bush said, and I called you on it. Now you are claiming it was only part of the problem, yet continuing the arguement about too much housing.

                        Home builders did not, in any way, cause the mortgage meltdown. They reacted to the market of more people buying homes by building more, but remembering the lessons of the last housing bubble, by watching the market. When the mortgage market came crumbliong down, they slowed building, and in many cases stopped building completely. The only reasons there are a glut of houses on the market right now is because of forclosures, not building too many homes.

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                        • #13
                          At the time the houses were being built there was a demand for them. When foreclosures started occuring in vastly greater numbers than anyone expected the demand dropped very rapidly and we have more houses than we currently can sell. Eventually the demand will catch up but until then there will be empty homes and home construction will suffer greatly.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Skinview View Post
                            You do love a conspiracy theory, don't you?
                            Yeah right and conspiracy require conspirators...oh wait!, there are some...

                            William Kristol, Elliott Abrams
                            , Gary Bauer, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush,

                            Dick Cheney, Eliot A. Cohen, Midge Decter, Paula Dobriansky, Steve Forbes,

                            Aaron Friedberg, Francis Fukuyama, Frank Gaffney, Fred C. Ikle,

                            Donald Kagan
                            , Zalmay Khalilzad, I. Lewis Libby, Norman Podhoretz,

                            Dan Quayle,
                            Peter W. Rodman, Stephen P. Rosen, Henry S. Rowen,

                            Donald Rumsfeld,
                            Vin Weber, George Weigel, and Paul Wolfowitz for starters.

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                            • #15
                              this event will affect all of us and generations to come.

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