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What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made?

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  • What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made?

    To me it sounds very Gestapo. Maybe we should put arm bands on the legal Hispanics so that they can tell the difference with the illegal ones?

  • #2
    Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

    I know I should stay out of this thread, however, could you tell me of another country that doesn't require a passport or visa to enter?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

      Papers please,.... This is one of the obligatory lines from almost every WWII movie I ever saw. I know it's Fascist but it's a dry Fascist.

      Oh by the by America does require a Visa or passport to enter the country. What we don't require is showing proof of citizenship to walk down to the corner store. Now if all the FREEDOM LOVERS in Arizona want to have to go to that level all I can say is start practicing your goose step and stiff arm salute.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

        There are many problems with the Arizona law. The worst being that it targets LEGAL CITIZENS with the requirement to "prove" their legal status upon demand.

        Clearly any true conservative would vehemently oppose a requirement that any citizen always carry proof of their citizenship (birth certificate plus legal ID, or passport) in order to produce it on demand at a moments notice or be placed into detention.

        I don't have any problem with having those who are arrested or legally detained for other reasons and then found not be in the country legally get turned over to ICE. Fortunately, that is already the law - even if Arizona chooses not to always enforce it.
        Naturist Mark
        Supreme Member
        Last edited by Naturist Mark; 04-28-2010, 09:54 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

          Originally posted by baregreg View Post
          I know I should stay out of this thread, however, could you tell me of another country that doesn't require a passport or visa to enter?
          We aren't talking about requiring a passport or visa to enter the US or Arizona. We are talking about the police having the power to stop and detain anyone already in Arizona they suspect might be in the country illegally - and to immediately detain them if they can't prove their legal status. That means American Citizens who for some reason or another fall under "suspicion" MUST have PROOF of their citizenship ON THEIR PERSON, or will be taken into custody.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

            I do not understand. Isn't being in this country illegally already a crime? Or does being here illegally just mean that you will be deported? Is it technically not a crime, just against the law?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

              Just for starters...

              I worked with cops on a regular basis. They had more crap thrown on their plates, as did the FD, because politicians and Administrators didn't have the money to add more people to do the job they needed done so...they used a broad umbrella with regards to responsibiliites of the PD and FD.

              People ***** about crime all the time. "There's too much", "there's never a cop around when you need one", "how come he's giving me a ticket when there's some real crime going on under his nose." Now in Arizona...not only will they be expected to fight real crime but are now the state's "Imigration Enforcement." If I was a cop....I have to ask these jackasses...."which job do you want me to do first?"

              They can't put enough cops on the street to deal with real crime...so now lets give those we got more crap to do on top of all the crap they don't have time to do.

              How many people here....truthfully now.....how many people here with young kids at home (working age) are gonna tell their kids to go out and get a job... picking fruit, washing our cars, dry cleaning our clothes, digging ditches, mowing our lawns, busing our tables at restaurants, cleaning the dirty dishes we leave in the restaurants, manning every drive thru fast food place, cleaning offices, cleaning our homes..........Need I continue to list all the crap jobs these people are willing to do for the crappy wages they are willing to do them for?

              Does anyone realize that most of these people don't know what the hell a day off is....cuz...if they took one....there's no money for that day. How many weekends off do you think they get? How many weekends are your working age children willing to work? How early are they willing to start work, how long are they willing to work and how hard do they work?

              These people come here illegally...yes,.... to do the jobs that no one here in the US wants to do.....that's plain and simple. I don't see anyone other than these people standing on the corners hoping someone will pick them up and give them some work for the day so....they can pay their rent and put food on the table for their families.

              And....if by chance...some of these legal American citizens do decide to take on one of these jobs....they don't stay with it for long before they're crying the blues about working too hard, too many hours and too many weekends....so they quit.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

                Has anyone actually read the law?

                Contrary to the talk, it is a reasonable, limited, carefully-crafted measure designed to help law enforcement deal with a serious problem in Arizona. Its authors anticipated criticism and went to great lengths to make sure it is constitutional and will hold up in court. It is the criticism of the law that is over the top, not the law itself.

                The law requires police to check with federal authorities on a person's immigration status, if officers have stopped that person for some legitimate reason and come to suspect that he or she might be in the U.S. illegally. The heart of the law is this provision: "For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency…where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person…"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

                  Originally posted by Naturist Mark View Post
                  We aren't talking about requiring a passport or visa to enter the US or Arizona. We are talking about the police having the power to stop and detain anyone already in Arizona they suspect might be in the country illegally - and to immediately detain them if they can't prove their legal status. That means American Citizens who for some reason or another fall under "suspicion" MUST have PROOF of their citizenship ON THEIR PERSON, or will be taken into custody.
                  You are wrong, Mark.

                  For example:

                  Arizona already has a state law on human smuggling. An officer stops a group of people in a car that is speeding. The car is overloaded. Nobody had identification. The driver acts evasively. They are on a known smuggling corridor. (That is a not uncommon occurrence in Arizona, and any officer would reasonably suspect that the people in the car were illegal.) Under the new law, the officer would get in touch with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to check on their status.

                  But what if the driver of the car had shown the officer his driver's license? The law clearly says that if someone produces a valid Arizona driver's license, or other state-issued identification, they are presumed to be here legally. There's no reasonable suspicion.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

                    Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                    You are wrong, Mark.

                    For example:

                    Arizona already has a state law on human smuggling. An officer stops a group of people in a car that is speeding. The car is overloaded. Nobody had identification. The driver acts evasively. They are on a known smuggling corridor. (That is a not uncommon occurrence in Arizona, and any officer would reasonably suspect that the people in the car were illegal.) Under the new law, the officer would get in touch with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to check on their status.

                    But what if the driver of the car had shown the officer his driver's license? The law clearly says that if someone produces a valid Arizona driver's license, or other state-issued identification, they are presumed to be here legally. There's no reasonable suspicion.
                    An Arizona driver's license is not proof of citizenship or legal status. A fact that was exploited by the current governor, Jan Brewer when she was the AZ secretary of state. She noticed that a lot of people who were being called for jury duty were being dismissed because they weren't citizens.

                    She said AHA! That proves that they are voting illegally and used that as an excuse to purge 100,000 Hispanic citizens from the voter registration rolls. However, in Arizona (and many other places) people are called for jury duty from the rolls of the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, NOT voter rolls, so this was not evidence of illegal voter registration, it was evidence that many licensed drivers in Arizona are not citizens.

                    The BBC noticed the disconnect between the disenfranchisement of voters and the reasons justifying it, and asked for a list of the people who had illegally registered to vote even though she claimed they were not citizens. She refused the list. They asked if she had turned the list of supposed illegals over to ICE for deportation (registering to vote when not a citizen is a major crime - subject to prison and deportation even if they are in the country legally) - they had not notified ICE or made any effort to turn them in. The BBC reporter then asked for just one name, so they could go and make a citizens arrest and turn them over to ICE for deportation. They refused.

                    And what of out of state drivers? Better have your passport.

                    Pima Country Sheriff will refuse to enforce new law:



                    Phoenix mayor suing to stop bill:

                    Naturist Mark
                    Supreme Member
                    Last edited by Naturist Mark; 04-29-2010, 05:03 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

                      The one good thing I can say about this law it has effectively spit the Republican Party in two.

                      While most of them are squirming in their seats like a hemorrhoid sufferer on a riding lawn mower the few who have come down on either side of this thing are catching hell from all sides. There are those with large minority population in their voting districts who are saying it is a bad thing and there are those who are so in bed with the rabid wing of the party that they support it. Even those who I thought would never say it was a bad idea had like Lindsey Graham who basically said it would not stand the test of the Supreme Court.

                      Answer me this, if racism isn't the driving force behind this bill then why are those who claim to want less government not more, i.e. the Tea Baggers, supporting this so called anti immigration measure? Hmmmm?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

                        Originally posted by Naturist Mark View Post
                        An Arizona driver's license is not proof of citizenship or legal status. A fact that was exploited by the current governor, Jan Brewer when she was the AZ secretary of state. She noticed that a lot of people who were being called for jury duty were being dismissed because they weren't citizens.

                        She said AHA! That proves that they are voting illegally and used that as an excuse to purge 100,000 Hispanic citizens from the voter registration rolls. However, in Arizona (and many other places) people are called for jury duty from the rolls of the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, NOT voter rolls, so this was not evidence of illegal voter registration, it was evidence that many licensed drivers in Arizona are not citizens.

                        The BBC noticed the disconnect between the disenfranchisement of voters and the reasons justifying it, and asked for a list of the people who had illegally registered to vote even though she claimed they were not citizens. She refused the list. They asked if she had turned the list of supposed illegals over to ICE for deportation (registering to vote when not a citizen is a major crime - subject to prison and deportation even if they are in the country legally) - they had not notified ICE or made any effort to turn them in. The BBC reporter then asked for just one name, so they could go and make a citizens arrest and turn them over to ICE for deportation. They refused.

                        And what of out of state drivers? Better have your passport.

                        Pima Country Sheriff will refuse to enforce new law:
                        Read the law...Mark.

                        We are not talking about voting.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

                          Originally posted by NudeAl View Post
                          The one good thing I can say about this law it has effectively spit the Republican Party in two.

                          While most of them are squirming in their seats like a hemorrhoid sufferer on a riding lawn mower the few who have come down on either side of this thing are catching hell from all sides. There are those with large minority population in their voting districts who are saying it is a bad thing and there are those who are so in bed with the rabid wing of the party that they support it. Even those who I thought would never say it was a bad idea had like Lindsey Graham who basically said it would not stand the test of the Supreme Court.

                          Answer me this, if racism isn't the driving force behind this bill then why are those who claim to want less government not more, i.e. the Tea Baggers, supporting this so called anti immigration measure? Hmmmm?
                          Al, you make a valid point.

                          Let me expand it.

                          Republicans want illegal immigrants here so they can placate the employers who benefit from the cheap labor.
                          Democrats want illegal immigrants here so they can provide more votes to keep them in power.

                          Let us all keep in mind that this is NOT a human rights issue.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

                            Originally posted by baregreg View Post
                            I know I should stay out of this thread, however, could you tell me of another country that doesn't require a passport or visa to enter?
                            What countries ask you to show paperwork if you're not the dominant skin color?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What do you think about the law towards illegal immigration that Arizona has made

                              Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                              Al, you make a valid point.

                              Let me expand it.

                              Republicans want illegal immigrants here so they can placate the employers who benefit from the cheap labor.
                              Democrats want illegal immigrants here so they can provide more votes to keep them in power.

                              Let us all keep in mind that this is NOT a human rights issue.
                              Illegal immigrants can't vote so that is NOT a reason for Democrats to want illegal immigration. Democrats support LEGAL immigration and aren't uncomfortable if the people immigrating aren't w.a.s.p.s. We are support taking reasonable steps to deal with people who are already here illegal, not reactionary extremism designed to appeal to racist primary voters in a 30 second tv. ad.

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