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do vegetarians Really respect animals as much as they say they do?

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  • do vegetarians Really respect animals as much as they say they do?

    I have as many pets that you can imagine. I have a dog, 3 lizards, a leopard gecko,a turtle, red bellied newts, frogs, and the koi that live in my water garden outside. do you think I respect animals? you bet I do. yet I am not a vegetarian. Humans are animals. Many animals eat flesh. Vegetarians in my belief do not accept themselves as animals. Life isn't like a disney movie. Things have to die so you can live.

  • #2
    I have as many pets that you can imagine. I have a dog, 3 lizards, a leopard gecko,a turtle, red bellied newts, frogs, and the koi that live in my water garden outside. do you think I respect animals? you bet I do. yet I am not a vegetarian. Humans are animals. Many animals eat flesh. Vegetarians in my belief do not accept themselves as animals. Life isn't like a disney movie. Things have to die so you can live.

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    • #3
      I once knew a guy from Boulder who was a vegitarian, and when asked why, he stated,"It's not that I feel sorry for the animals, it's because I despise plants! I have to eat them all!"

      Any true thinking vegitarian would understand that their bowl of salad is worth it's weight in blood.
      The farmer needs to kill countless rodents and insects (and other varmits) to keep that lettuce safe and edible.

      My daughter who is only 8yrs. old is a self proclaimed vegitarian mostly because she doesn't like the taste of most meat items. That's o.k. because she dang near eats her weight in broccoli and spinach.But she NEVER turns her nose up at a McDonalds' cheeseburger.

      I am kinda in the middle line on animal rights.
      I will not wear the skin of an animal that I don't eat!

      BTW Does anyone have a recipe for coyote?

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      • #4
        Some years ago I was hiking in the wilderness area of Tasmania and the vegetarian guide accidently trod on a lizard, squashing it and several babies. She became very upset and was unconsolable for a long time.

        I know another vegetarian who will not come into the countryside because when she sees a cow she is upset because it will end up as hamburger meat.

        JAMES

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        • #5
          several babies? or was it eggs? most lizards are egg laying.

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          • #6
            Tiny baby lizards - they must have hatched.

            Down the Lizard thread - last year I saved the life of a Frilly Necked lizard that fell in my pool. It must have been there overnight. When I pulled it out with the pool scoop it was dead. No breathing, no movement no life. As I was carrying it to put on a nearby rock to look at, thick clear fluid started coming out of its mouth. I shook it a bit and put it , seemingly dead, on the rock. An hour or so later I went back and check and saw an eye lid move. I held up its tail and shook it some more and more sticky clear liquid came out of its mouth. An hour or so later it had moved a bit. I shook it again and a bit later it was gone.

            This begs the question from you smart .... guys "did I give it mouth to mouth resusitation" NO I DID NOT. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

            By the way I love vegetables (and meat). I would like to try some Aussie bush tucker - Goanna lizard cooked on a BBQ and snake similarly - has anyone tried them ?? Maybe Rex from WA ????

            JAMES

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            • #7
              Being a vegetarian myself, I can feel quite able to answer.

              Vegetarians have numerous reasons for becoming so, not just loving bambi and his furry friends.

              "Humans are animals. Many animals eat flesh. Vegetarians in my belief do not accept themselves as animals."

              Your first two statements are correct. Your last statement misses a few things, but you are free to have your belief. It might apply to a few odd vegetarians.

              I will start first from my point of view and expand to other views. I am a vegetarian because I think most meat production methods are bad for the environment. Large-scale farming deforested most of my country's forestry, put effluent into the rivers and lakes killing them and the fish in them, overfishing of seafoods have unbalanced the oceans ecosystems. And I don't want to be complicit in such a crime.

              I also think that we shouldn't make the whole world serve for the sole purpose of humans continuing expansion, that we should recognise the "right" to live of all creatures to live. Enslaving most of a species, homogenising it and then systematically killing it doesn't appeal to me. We are just dictators to this Earth and I personally want to renounce some of that domination. As much as I can, at least.

              I don't think I love animals any more than anyone else. I just want my lifestyle to be responsible.
              We have one advantage over other animals though. We have choice and freewill. Eating animal flesh is not necessary.

              There are some rather extreme vegetarians/vegans who release caged animals and the like. I think their views are probably very logical for their particular values. They are probably more on the animal rights thing than I am, and I think that is reasonable too.

              Matteo, do you really respect where your meat comes from? Could you kill the animal it came from? Maybe you could. I could kill an animal, but I know many meat-eaters who couldn't. Too repelled by the idea of killing.

              Yet, they eat the meat very easily. Even if they own a cat or a dog, I don't think they really respect animals because they ignore where the meat has come from.

              I do eat meat on occasion, when I don't have a choice, or the meat-eaters are wasting it.
              A scavenger.


              Mountain Goat

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              • #8
                for my first argument, humans are not the rulers species on earth.

                Bacteria have gone for billions of years without us. They purify our water and digest our food, and many other things. and when the world ends, they will be there, not us

                and what about plants? plants are living. Did we not "enslave" plants on farmms to eat them.

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                • #9
                  plant harvesting methods are worse for the environment than meat processing methods. cut and burn tecniques to harvest from the rainforest are the worst.

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                  • #10
                    " I am a vegetarian because I think most meat production methods are bad for the environment. Large-scale farming deforested most of my country's forestry, put effluent into the rivers and lakes killing them and the fish in them, overfishing of seafoods have unbalanced the oceans ecosystems. And I don't want to be complicit in such a crime."

                    Most vegetable growing methods are also bad for the enviroment. They allow pesticides and fertilizers to run off into our water supplies and cause all sorts of problems including killing fish.

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                    • #11
                      Cyndiann,

                      Indeed, you are correct about horticultural chemicals. Although there is more than one way to grow vegetables. "Organic" growing, which I support when I can, is a way that uses no artificial chemicals to grow vegetables.

                      Agriculture has far more negative effects. And your argument is void in the states, where most of the livestock are fed grains grown with extensive use of pesticides and fertilisers.


                      Mountain Goat

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                      • #12
                        Mateo,

                        Could you elaborate on what specifically you are talking about? You can say these things to justify your position on meat-eating, but does it correspond to reality?

                        The Amazon forest is being cut down for both beef production and soy-bean production.

                        http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0409-05.htm

                        But a square kilometre of vegetable/grain production makes much more than a square kilometre of agriculture. And if you are aware of where the food you get comes from and how it was made, then you can eat with awareness of the consequences of your consumption.

                        You can point to modern horticulture if you wish. But to say that you should have a look at what you eat, before you can point to anything.


                        Mountain Goat

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                        • #13
                          Hmmmm. Sorry about this. I only saw Cyndiann's post last night then noticed Mateo's last post an hour ago, but didn't see his first post in response. So at risk of fragmenting things even more I will respond to his first response (the one about us not being rulers of the earth).

                          Yes, the bacteria were here before us and will probably always be here etc. But that is completely unrelated to my point.

                          I don't mean controlling everything, but rather the mindset that everything is for us, and that what should be controlled by us should be.

                          My point: we subvert the largest proportion of the ecosystem of the world for our needs. Only recently has the idea of sustainability been conceived (a good thing, especially with fisheries).

                          The only ground we leave to nature is that which is unproductive for us. Suburban areas are only stopped spreading by geographical obstacles.

                          If you want an interesting read: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn.

                          Yes, we do cultivate/"enslave" plants but if we stopped agriculture, aquaculture and horticulture simultaneously we would head for starvation with a week or two as we have raised our population beyond a level that could sustainably maintained.

                          Horticulture by itself can feed the world with less damage to the rest of the world and needs less productive space and when I do get my own home I will cultivate as much as I can for myself.

                          Mateo, you don't need to take my opinions as global assertions of truth. You can eat meat. I am happy for you. I was explaining to you exactly what a particular vegetarian thought and how your statement "Vegetarians in my belief do not accept themselves as animals" was not correct as a general statement for all vegetarians (and I would say most).

                          I don't mind keeping debating this topic if you like. But don't take it as an attack on your way of life. My decision to be vegetarian was only for me to be responsible for what I ate, and not be part of the "dictatorship" that I perceive acting on the world.


                          Mountain Goat

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OZJames:

                            "I would like to try some Aussie bush tucker - Goanna lizard cooked on a BBQ and snake similarly - has anyone tried them ?? Maybe Rex from WA ????"

                            No James, only roo-tail stew, which was very nice and I've no particular wish to try some of the others. How about witchetty grubs [for the uninitiated, a kind of maggot the size of a man's finger, eaten either raw or cooked].

                            On a previous thread, I posted what I thought was a smart [smartass?] comment that I only eat vegetarian animals, but of course it was immediately pointed out that many supposed "vegetarian" creatures are actually omniverous [like most people].

                            Speaking of goannas, the bob-tails [blue tongues] are usually infested with ticks, under their scales, but especially in their ears. If you gently remove these ticks with tweezers, you have a "friend for life", the happy little creature will follow you around! Eating one of those would be like eating a friend's nice friendly dog!

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                            • #15
                              mountain goat, what are you talking about? do you just randomly say things without reasearch? The largest ecosystem is the ocean.

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