Don Imus & Eddie Robinson & Race in America

[usmc1]

I'm curious as to the thoughts others have concerning two recent stories in the news.

One is the death of Eddie Robinson, one of America's greatest coaches and a true mentor and life-guide to generations of young African-American men at Grambling University. Despite winning season after winning, he mostly labored in obscurity while white coaches of lesser ability and moral fiber (some fielding outright criminals) achieved great wealth and headlines. His reward was his work and the fine young men whose character he helped develop.

He insisted that his players complete their degrees--on time! attend church, and conduct themselves as upright citizens. At one time it was all but impossible to find an NFL team that did not have one or more of his former players on its roster.

On Wednesday, Don Imus, a syndicaed curmudgeonly talk-show host whose schtick is lampooning and "fryin" everyone, with nothing held sacred, spoke of the Rutger's womens national champion contending basketball team as being "Nappy headed Ho's".

The world is demanding that he be fired, despite a near immediate apology. What many people do not know is that Don is a great humanitarian. He and his wife have done tremendous good for all races.

He went too far in an attempt to be funny, Way, way too far, and the attached link takes one to a clip in which he acknowleges this.

But, for me, the two stories have sort of convergence. How a marvelous and spriritual man who was one of the winningest college football coaches in the history could be so unknown outside the African-American community and sports cognizenti. Edited for clarification.

And, how a good and decent man such as Don Imus could utter such foul and hurtful words and confirm what so many African-American believe about whites--that no matter our words or politics, there always comes a time in which the truth comes out; that we "hate" them.

My personal belief is that we indeed are many separate nations and until we have real national dialogue and reconciliation, we will never be a whole country. I think our political leaders-of all persuasions, and our religious leaders--of all denominations, have failed us in not initiating such.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17999196/

[hm0504]

If someone makes a relatively quick, apparently sincere apology and makes an effort to help ensure an unfortunate statement is not repeated, then society should forgive and, to whatever extent possible, forget.

Frankly, I think hysterical knee-jerk reactions to people who've offended yet quickly apologized bring on greater division than having an attitude of reconcilliation.

BTW, as the topic of race relations has come up, I would like to recommend the movie "Amazing Grace", about William Wilberforce and the British slave trade, now showing in theatres:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Cv5P9H9qU

[nunne]

But, for me, the two stories have sort of convergence. How a marvelous and spriritual man who was one of the winningest collegge football coaches in the history could be so unknown outside the African-American community.

Unknown outside the African-American community? He has been praised by everyone for exactly the things that you pointed out. I have heard many, many sportscasters sing his praises, and I can't imagine that there is any other coach, regardless of race or where he coached, that is better known and respected than Eddie Robinson.

[usmc1]

Yeah, I understand. I should have modified that sentence to include "outside the sports world". I think many of us who follow sports knew of him and what he stood for, but I do not think that an awareness of him had gotten into the general cultural awareness that many more famous white coaches have.

I regret that my oversight has distracted from my points, and will proceed to edit accordingly.

[UpstateNYBill]

Originally posted by nunne:

quote:

But, for me, the two stories have sort of convergence. How a marvelous and spriritual man who was one of the winningest collegge football coaches in the history could be so unknown outside the African-American community.

Unknown outside the African-American community? He has been praised by everyone for exactly the things that you pointed out. I have heard many, many sportscasters sing his praises, and I can't imagine that there is any other coach, regardless of race or where he coached, that is better known and respected than Eddie Robinson.

I disagree that Eddie Robinson wasn't well known outside of his race. He ran a very successful mid level program that produced many NFL players such as Doug Williams, the 1st black QB to win a Super Bowl. Williams would succeed Robinson at Grambling.

[Ren]

It's so easy to "apologize" today, but what does it really mean? Do we ever see these people truly reflect on what they've done? It's hard, when millions of dollars are at stake, to take someone who apologizes after something they should have known not to do in the first place as we presume, mature, educated adults (and in Imus' case, racial insensitivity is nothing new) so quickly. Imus repents because he can see his career ending, not because he's sorry for saying something offensive. If he had that bone in his body, he wouldn't have said it in the first place.

As they said on Seinfeld, you can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister.

[nacktman]

Mr. Robinson was NOT well know outside of the sporting world even, unfortunately, among his own "race" (oh, how I despise that term), or at least with the current generation for the most part. Which is an outrage as he was and will continue to be a man to emulate and so many of the current generation need to look at him and how he stood in his life.

The Imus "thing" has been blown so far out of proportion as to have passed delirium long ago.
Should he have said what he did ... most likely not as he didn't know the girls on the team personally (or at least I do not think so, but they are scheduled to meet face to face), and to make a call as he did would require actual knowledge to be accurate.
But we do live in the United States of the Offended so simply being is offensive to someone.

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by Ren:
Imus repents because he can see his career ending, not because he's sorry for saying something offensive. If he had that bone in his body, he wouldn't have said it in the first place.

The way he said it made me think that it was something that he thought was cute or funny to say. For him to think that this was a natural thing to say, makes me not believe his apology.

[alfredr]

I don't know anything about Mr. Imus; USMC1 says he's a basically good guy. But it seems to me that if you run a 'talk' show, you are going to be doing a lot af talking, and if you talk long enough, sooner or later you're going to put your foot in your mouth. Most of us probably couldn't talk successfully for five minutes on radio, or is he on TV?

There is an old saying: "Better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

[missouriboy]

"Better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Mark Twain, was it?

[Naturist Mark]

Don Imus is a shock jock who thinks he's a comedian. He's really just a slightly better behaved, and less intelligent, Howard Stern. His humor is geriatric adolescence - too hip to be stale (or is that backwards?). What he said about the Rutgers women's basketball players was totally in character, he has a long (40 years) history of misogyny, racism and intolerance. But it's "OK" because he's only doing it for the laugh.

Count that last sentence as only half snark, because, although he really did reveal something ugly about the way he thinks, something that he probably doesn't even realize, it is also quite true that he didn't mean any harm.

Intent counts for something, and his intent was to be funny - even though he missed the mark by a mile.

Now contrast the outrage all over the mainstream media about IMUS with the lack of outrage over the legions of talk radio and cable newz neanderthals (yeah, I'm dissing neanderthals, whatcha gonna do about it) who say the most reprehensible things imaginable on a daily basis, not as humor, but as opinion leaders. Imus was just goofing, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Michelle Malkin, John Gibson, Michael (Weiner) Savage, Glenn Beck, and their ilk aren't kidding. And their advertisers are fine with that. Oh yeah, and Rush.

Those guys (and gals) deliberately inflate and incite prejudice in order to induce fear and drive people toward a Daddy Culture ideology where listeners will be kept safe from scary gays, brown people, people with turbans, or having to make their own decisions. Imus on the other hand was reaching for a laugh - and failing.

-Mark

[hm0504]

I should add to my previous comments that I am not a big fan of the shock jock style. I can understand inadvertent slips and weak moments, but doing rudeness as a style is something I'm keen to see and hear a lot less of.

[usmc1]

This is a tough one, and I've got a lot of thoughts--some of which conflict with each other.

I worked talk radio for years in a major market 50KW network affiliate. The environment is brutal, over-weaning egos, jealousy,hypocrisy, glib, facile words said for effect, and the knife always out, time pressures and on and on. Broadcasting is tough business and you're constantly fighting for the numbers.

I once remarked on my show that a banker will rob you quicker with a Mont Blanc than a car-jacker with a Saturday night special. The station's owning company was that of a prominent banking family. It took a year or so, I had good numbers, but I was out.

No big deal, we landed a TV gig and moved on to acting.

So one understands there is price to free speech. And there is my conflict.

Imus was exercising his freedom of speech. When you tune in Don, you know that no one escapes his acerbic, acid tongue..no race, no group, no person...his schtick is outrageous insults, gigging and gouging of everyone. This time, he way, way overreached by targeting people who did not present themselved before the public as figures of controversy, debate, or political issues..just a team of women b-ballers.

Anyone in broadcasting knows that at some point you're going to throw out a one-liner that you'll regret. Boy howdy, he sure done that.

But, if you don't like that sort of thing, don't tune in.

Here's what I don't like and that I find troubling. Al Sharpton lives in a glass house of hypocrisy and has a large supply of bricks to hurl. Sometimes Sharpton can be extremely articulate and right on the dime with his comments and criticisms regarding American politics and Society, but like Imus he sometimes exceeds himself: Tawana Brawley & his comments about the Duke Lacrosse players.

I think the good Rev has forgotten that thing about he who is without sin...

There is so much hypocrisy going on right now. Don't get me wrong, what Imus said was stupid, hurtful and deplorable. And he is right to ask for forgiveness. He needs forgiveness to made whole, and those hurt by him need to forgive so they can be restored to wholeness.

Time will judge whether he has constituted a change in himself through this experience.

But, I'm really disturbed by an even bigger issue. What have we become when every pejorative, racist thought or word, ignorant utterance, careless thoughtless gibe has to be rolled up and hidden from view. Why can't we say the man called another man a n****r, instead of the kindergartenish, "N-word"? I've a gut full of N, S, F, A and whatever words with the condescending little smirk of 'you know what I mean".

It is sophomoric, revisionist, cutesy and ultimataely silly and ineffective. The words exist, put them out into the open, stop pretending they don't exist and the the users of such live with the consequences of their use. It is also a form of badgering and trummeling us all into right-think and right speak and that is, for me, much more worrisome than some radio personality's stupidity.

What is the standard? No one gets offended? Is it that we all must listen to bland, bass voices playing Lawrence Welk or Percy Faith while we eat tapioca and sip green tea? Screw that man, I want kick-*** R&R while I slam down White Castles and Dos Equis.

Why can rappers use the basest language, and not draw the response that Imus has? Why do not those self-rightious advertisers flee those stations playing that music invoking those hateful demeaning images?

If the N-word (see) is so horrific, why can African Americans use it with impunity. Seems to me if its hurtful, it is universally hurtful--wasn't that what Cosby was trying to tell us awhile back. I don't think the explanation of "Well, I carry the card, and you don't so I get to say it" suffices. That is intellectual and moral laziness. I don't like double standards, either way they work to the disadavantage of someone.

Damn get a grip and toughen up. You don't like what someone says, fight back, prove them wrong, but do not try to shut them up. If their words are outlandish, ignorant and based on hatred, bias, fear, superstiton, or anger; they will soon wither and blow away.

Imus, who is as complicated a human and as full of self-contradictions as any of the rest of us, and who does some wonderful things for the good of many people(maybe mostly at the direction of his wife)also has the capacity to say some of the most juvenile, mean things for their shock value.

For that he is now paying a price. He's been around long enough to know what's at work. He'll survive.

But, the hypocrisy and thought-police element that no one ever hears an offensive word or is exposed to ugliness is bothersome.

[Ren]

Did you notice, Mark, that Bill O'Reilly, with all the vitriol that this xenophobe could muster post-fighting with Geraldo, he told his prejudiced xenophobic guest Michelle Malkin that by allowing Imus to be on MSNBC trafficks in "hate". Michelle Malkin has argued for the Japanese internment camps in the US during WWII!

I'm going to put this theory out there: The reason the mainstream media has not been as outraged about the people you mention is because Imus had in fact transformed himself to discussing the news of the day with people across the spectrum, so his words, so misplaced, so blatant, were actually kind of shocking. On the other side, the others you mention are so consistently offensive, the mainstream media and the buoy of the right-wingers and conservative corporations don't notice their offenses anymore. Maybe Ann Coulter says shocking things so the MSM is distracted and the others can continue with their under-the-radar smarm and hate manufacturing. Imus, simply stated, shocked with the offensiveness of his remark. And what's interesting is that he's probably not a racist in the active sense, though something lies beneath, while the outwardly prejudiced and racist and homophobic can be so, because it's more organic to them --- it is who they are. They are hiding in plain sight.

[Naturist Mark]

In case you all haven't heard yet, CBS Radio fired Imus today. MSNBC did so yesterday. As of tomorrow he is unemployed.

Intentions should count for something, and in this case Imus did not have bad intentions - just a lack of judgment and immaturity. That didn't matter, his real sin, the one that got him fired, was to scare off advertisers.

CBS has plenty to account for. They supported and promoted Imus for years, even though he has a multiple decade history of saying things just as dumb and offensive as last week's statement. The reason CBS Radio should have dropped his show years ago is because a 'shock jock' program where the host pretty much universally degrades any and all is not consistent with the public mission of the corporation. Instead his loss of advertisers was inconsistent.

Now let's see if the anti-Imus crusaders will turn their sights towards the real deliberate racists and bigots all over the AM dial and cable newz shows - the ones who are trying to spread hatred rather than just going for the laugh.

They got the dumb guy, are they going to let the evil ones alone?

-Mark