Art teacher in hot water over topless photos

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  • Sanslines
    Supreme Member
    • Jun 2005
    • 7118

    #46
    "Unfortunately, all the photos of the teacher are off the Internet and most of the people expressing their opinion here are doing so without firsthand knowledge."

    True and we can only go by what we read or see in videos and speculate as to how accurate our information is.


    "Based on what I saw, the teacher should not be disciplined, the photos are mostly tame, not all nude or topless, and playful in nature. I think just about anyone would consider them art and not pornography. Even the school district is not calling the photos porno, Hoover is being charged with "failure to meet the District's standards of professional conduct," and engaging in an activity that "because of the publicity given it, or knowledge of it among students, faculty and community, impairs or diminishes the employee's effectiveness in the district.""

    If the district feels that these photos are so innocuous, then they would issue a disciplinary letter or even dismiss her. They would not try to have her banned from teaching in the entire state of Texas. This would spill over and ruin her chances of teaching anywhere in the USA.

    Note: Due to typo, I mistakenly included the letter 'l' in the word innocuous. I have corrected the spelling above.

    Comment

    • jon71
      Platinum Member
      • Jun 2004
      • 3849
      • Adam Smith is my favorite socialist.

      #47
      Hopefully she will contact the A.C.L.U. and get some great legal representation. I hope this backfires and the people on the school are destroyed.

      Comment

      • NakedGary
        Platinum Member
        • Feb 2003
        • 3740

        #48
        From what's been brought forth from rumors, fact, and investigational reporting, I cannot see anything she has done wrong on or off her job of being an art teacher.

        Any Teachers in our group that can explain code of conduct standards for teachers of underage students on and off the job?

        Comment

        • OldFrog
          Junior Member
          • May 2002
          • 40

          #49
          The only reason that this case will even see a court is that Ms Hoover had recently signed a three year contract renewal with the Austin School District. Had that not happened they could have simply declined to renew the contract in which case she would have had no legal recourse. Teacher contract renewal in Texas is at the discretion of either party and no reasons are required.

          The Austin School District does not have the power to revoke her teaching certificate as that is issued by the state. In this particular case I really doubt that certificate revocation is a significant factor. Given the notoriety of the case and the fact that there will, apparently, be a challenge to the dismissal the public record will be available to any district to which she may apply in the future.

          If she manages to win the legal challenge the best that (I think) she can hope for is to serve out the three year contract period at which point she is almost guaranteed non-renewal. At that point I would imagine her chances of being hired by another district would be very minimal.

          I have been particularly interested in this as both my exwife and I have taught in Texas and raised two children that attended Texas schools. That has resulted in my doing a good deal of digging into the case and while I was initially inclined to support her cause and decision I am far less so inclined now. I realize that sounds judgemental but I really have to ask if this is someone that I would want influencing my minor child.

          Comment

          • usmc1
            Diamond Member
            • Nov 2005
            • 4357
            • If you tremble indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine! We all warm our hands at fires others have built and drink from wells dug by those who came before us. We, each of us, have a moral obligation to keep those fires brightly burning and those wells flowing!

            #50
            quote:
            Originally posted by OldFrog:
            The only reason that this case will even see a court is that Ms Hoover had recently signed a three year contract renewal with the Austin School District. Had that not happened they could have simply declined to renew the contract in which case she would have had no legal recourse. Teacher contract renewal in Texas is at the discretion of either party and no reasons are required.

            The Austin School District does not have the power to revoke her teaching certificate as that is issued by the state. In this particular case I really doubt that certificate revocation is a significant factor. Given the notoriety of the case and the fact that there will, apparently, be a challenge to the dismissal the public record will be available to any district to which she may apply in the future.

            If she manages to win the legal challenge the best that (I think) she can hope for is to serve out the three year contract period at which point she is almost guaranteed non-renewal. At that point I would imagine her chances of being hired by another district would be very minimal.

            I have been particularly interested in this as both my exwife and I have taught in Texas and raised two children that attended Texas schools. That has resulted in my doing a good deal of digging into the case and while I was initially inclined to support her cause and decision I am far less so inclined now. I realize that sounds judgemental but I really have to ask if this is someone that I would want influencing my minor child.


            Would you please expound on that last sentence of yours? It is open for interpretation in a lot of ways.

            Comment

            • Sanslines
              Supreme Member
              • Jun 2005
              • 7118

              #51
              There was also another incident in Florida a couple or so years back. A school district in Florida wanted to fire a teacher who was 'caught' going to a swingers club on a Friday night (on her own time). I am not sure what the eventual resolution of this case was. Back to this case, fairly extensive background checks are performed on potential teachers around here before they are hired. If this Texas teacher has her teaching certificate revoked, then she won't be teaching up here (and possible in many other states). She will have to find a new line of work and get out of teaching altogether.

              Comment

              • NakedGary
                Platinum Member
                • Feb 2003
                • 3740

                #52
                quote:
                I realize that sounds judgemental but I really have to ask if this is someone that I would want influencing my minor child.


                OldFrog, In effect you’re saying the Austin school district doesn't spell out or put into writing or contract terms of personal or on the job codes of conduct for teachers of any or underage students?

                You should ask yourself why you’re being judgmental on pure speculation, rumor, media reports, and investigational journalistic reporting.

                What I have seen and read from (AP) Associated Press [the article initiator]:
                [Partial Quote Associated Press]
                quote:
                AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Austin High School officials considered Tamara Hoover an excellent art teacher with a knack for helping students find their creativity.


                Do you have reason to believe she did something wrong, illegal, or violated this "Assumed" code of conduct the district board has for all and/or teachers of minor students on and off the job of teaching?

                .

                Comment

                • NakedGary
                  Platinum Member
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 3740

                  #53
                  Sanslines

                  She has not had her teaching certificate revoked and according to "OldFrog" the Austin School District does not have the power to do that as that’s a function of the State of Texas.

                  The media reports say she was suspended for a week by the District upon learning of the topless photographs, and now the whole district is on summer break.

                  .

                  Comment

                  • OldFrog
                    Junior Member
                    • May 2002
                    • 40

                    #54
                    quote:
                    Would you please expound on that last sentence of yours? It is open for interpretation in a lot of ways.

                    Okay, this is a tough one. I trolled through a lot of Google cache stuff to find files, (specifically .mpg's) that are no longer publically available. Since they aren't I don't feel that I should make them so. To me they demonstrated a level of maturity that seemed to me more preteen than adult. Again, that is highly judgemental and is only my own personal opinion.

                    Comment

                    • OldFrog
                      Junior Member
                      • May 2002
                      • 40

                      #55
                      quote:
                      You should ask yourself why you’re being judgmental on pure speculation, rumor, media reports, and investigational journalistic reporting.

                      I am not being judgemental on any of those, only on what I have seen with my own eyes, archived, and viewed several times. Nothing that I have seen in the, so far, public record has caused me to think that she was guilty of anything but bad judgement.

                      Comment

                      • NakedGary
                        Platinum Member
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 3740

                        #56
                        I see where [AP] quoted "Austin High School".

                        So these students are within 2-3 years of being of legal age or adults?

                        So "OldFrog" you feel she was not guilty of anything but bad judgment in knowing that art topless photo's would eventually be seen by students, parents, or the school district or administration?

                        You have seen these; do you feel any are other than art model topless poses? Or reach the threshold of being pornographic or sexually explicit?

                        After the media blitz, its seems that she did have her own flickr and the photographers flickr art photos removed or password protected on the net. Her MySpace page is very ordinary and straight forward.

                        .

                        Comment

                        • Sanslines
                          Supreme Member
                          • Jun 2005
                          • 7118

                          #57
                          quote:
                          Originally posted by NakedGary:
                          Sanslines

                          She has not had her teaching certificate revoked and according to "OldFrog" the Austin School District does not have the power to do that as that’s a function of the State of Texas.

                          The media reports say she was suspended for a week by the District upon learning of the topless photographs, and now the whole district is on summer break.

                          .


                          The last I read was that the Austin School District was appealing to the state to have her teaching certificate revoked. Yes, it is true that the request comes from the school district and then it is the state that actually revokes the certificate. Perhaps this request is media 'hype' or maby the school district is only making 'tough sounding noise' to appease some parents with this get tough stance. This whole issue will probably quiet down this Summer.

                          Comment

                          • Sanslines
                            Supreme Member
                            • Jun 2005
                            • 7118

                            #58
                            quote:
                            Originally posted by NakedGary:

                            ........So "OldFrog" you feel she was not guilty of anything but bad judgment in knowing that art topless photo's would eventually be seen by students, parents, or the school district or administration?.........



                            Many art teachers have posed nude for art life figure drawing, painting, and sculpting classes in the past. Nudes are part of the classic tradition and this tradition is very, very old. With today's conservative craziness going on, will nudity in art be the next in line to be 'cleaned up' out of existence? Perhaps it is time to say 'welcome back to the dark ages'.

                            Comment

                            • OldFrog
                              Junior Member
                              • May 2002
                              • 40

                              #59
                              Austin High School was the employing school but her contract would have been with the Austin School District.
                              quote:
                              You have seen these; do you feel any are other than art model topless poses? Or reach the threshold of being pornographic or sexually explicit?

                              I have only seen eleven of the originally reported images and all of them either show her fully clothed or at least demonstrate an "intention" to be artful. I did not think any of those to be salacious although it has to be said that she was fully nude in at least three of the ones that I saw. I attribute this to bad judgement as I don't think that she really considered the possible ramifications of a student or school board official finding them. The photographer doesn't seem to be all that prominent in the art world and she likely never anticipated the site being viewed beyond the small group of admirers that it enjoyed before the photos became public.

                              Existing images on Ms Hoover's own Flikr page, at least as of yesterday, showed the two of them fully clothed in a homoerotic pose. There were also at least four photos on that site containing "We Three" in the title and showing one or both of the two females with a male companion. One of those was mildly suggestive of a "group" relationship (at least to me).

                              The things that really caused me to question her were the videos. These were not salacious either, and only one contained even partial nudity, but the behavior depicted reminded me of people I had known back in the 60's who were totally drugged out and out of control. It was certainly not that of a 29 year old woman whom I would want influencing my adolescent children.

                              Comment

                              • Sanslines
                                Supreme Member
                                • Jun 2005
                                • 7118

                                #60
                                What is really sad here is that individual harmless expression is crushed. The message of 'conform or else' rings loud and clear.

                                Comment

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