Christian Conservative Pat Robertson says to assasinate Venezuelan President Chavez

[hm0504]

Conservative Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson has called for the United States to assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/23/rob...vez/index.html

[hm0504]

Conservative Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson has called for the United States to assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/23/rob...vez/index.html

[Trailscout]

Chavez has become increasingly belligerent and demonstrably closer to communist Cuba. They look like Sandinistas all over again. Cuba hasn't had the resources to export communism for a number of years. Their recent alliance with oil-rich Venezuela is disturbing.

Maybe the CIA needs to take him out. Robertson is a man known for being blunt and a bit impetuous, but perhaps he is right on the spot this time.

And it certainly may be time for old Fidel to say farewell. Could we muster enough Cuba Libre patriots for a new Bay of Pigs invasion?

[ken0254]

Yeah, THAT'S IT, no need to have stopped with taking Sadam Hussein, we might as well go after Chavez, and while we're at it, let's go after Castro, then after we have taken Castro out, we'll go to North Korea and get rid of Kim Jong Il. After all, Bush said the world was better off without Hussein, wouldn't the world be better off without these other 3 too??

ken

[Trailscout]

quote:

Originally posted by ken0254:
Yeah, THAT'S IT, no need to have stopped with taking Sadam Hussein, we might as well go after Chavez, and while we're at it, let's go after Castro, then after we have taken Castro out, we'll go to North Korea and get rid of Kim Jong Il. After all, Bush said the world was better off without Hussein, wouldn't the world be better off without these other 3 too??

ken

Absolutely! These rogue states do not exist in isolation, they threaten their neighbors and the whole world. North Korea is arms merchant to the highest bidder, no matter how devilish the terrorist group. I'd love to see us finish the job General McArthur tried to finish, but was hindered by President Truman.

[roadrambler2]

Ah yes, are all right wing zealots this loony.
Now i know that i can sleep at night with these wacko's in charge! Only in America!
Run Well and Smooth---Roadrambler

[Qikdraw]

quote:

Originally posted by Trailscout:
Absolutely! These rogue states do not exist in isolation, they threaten their neighbors and the whole world.

Actually you're the one threatening your neighbours. Saying we should just off their leaders.

quote:

North Korea is arms merchant to the highest bidder, no matter how devilish the terrorist group.

Actually the US is the largest arms merchant on the planet. We keep selling arms to nations with terrorist links, and then wonder where the terrorists are getting their stuff.

quote:

I'd love to see us finish the job General McArthur tried to finish, but was hindered by President Truman.

There you go again, threatening our global neighbours. Apparently you're a rogue nation. Maybe we should 'sanction' you?

Just as an FYI. Bush tried to get Chavez out already. In 2002 money was funneled into Venezuela to help support a group trying to forcefully take over. They failed.
Chavez has caught American soldiers who are helping train their military in trying to incite the military into rebelling.
They've caught American soldiers taking pictures of electrical plants and other infrastructure buildings, and thrown them out as spies. He says next time he'll throw them in jail.

We've already been trying to undermine democracy in south America. In Haiti we helped overthrow a democratically elected leader and put in thugs who are human rights abusers and have no intention of holding real elections.

Now we have people saying we should just off a few leaders because we don't like what they say. What happened to a country's right to self governance? What made the US the only one on the planet who is allowed to be free to make their own choices?

Trailscout, you talk about bringing democracy to Iraq, but you are for taking away democracy in South America. Isn't that a tad bit hypocritical?

Its so nice to see "christians" advocate offing people. Sorry, but if you advocate that, you'r not a christian. You can get thrown in jail for death threats here, I'd like to see Robertson in jail for that.

What a discusting attitude.

Qikdraw

[Trailscout]

Qikdraw, you apparently can't argue the immediate danger that North Korea poses, at least you blew right past it. Even the liberal European states are shaking in their boots and feverishly negotiating with them to stop their nuclear program.

I do not support every deal the USA has ever struck with tin horn dictators in the name of national interest. Just the same, I am more than happy to see us institute regime change where there is a clear and present danger to our national security or to regional stability.

I do not know if assasination is as effective as total regime change. I would think that in the case of Venezuela, simply removing Chavez would put a similar tyrant in power. That would not be a concern here, except that Venezuela is flush with their oil riches and Chavez is on the verge of abolishing the token democracy and fully implementing a communist dictatorship and begin to undermine all the democracies of Central and South America in conjunction with Cuba.

I admit that assasination of Chavez is probably an insufficient response to the problem. We probably need to launch a full-scale military operation there.

[Qikdraw]

quote:

Originally posted by Trailscout:
Qikdraw, you apparently can't argue the immediate danger that North Korea poses, at least you blew right past it. Even the liberal European states are shaking in their boots and feverishly negotiating with them to stop their nuclear program.

North Korea is a problem, and yeah, I blew by it because I can't believe you advocated offing a head of state, and now you're for full scale invasion against a country that has done nothing to the US at all.
See we should be dealing with North Korea and not in Iraq. Iraq has done nothing but make the US a bigger target. Why aren't we dealing with Pakistan? Which as I have said before has WMDs, has terrorists in the country, helps terrorists, gives weapons to terrorists, and is a military dictatorship. All we are doing for Pakistan is giving them $100 million a month, and billions of American taxpayer dollars to give them weapons as well.

quote:

I do not support every deal the USA has ever struck with tin horn dictators in the name of national interest. Just the same, I am more than happy to see us institute regime change where there is a clear and present danger to our national security or to regional stability.

But at whose whim? This "pre-emptive" strategy we can just use to say that because Mexico will one day, maybe in a 100 years, will become a viable country with a great economy and large military that we should attack them now. (they do have oil too y'know)
Unless there is an immediate threat, that is verifyable, there is no reason to attack another country.

quote:

I do not know if assasination is as effective as total regime change. I would think that in the case of Venezuela, simply removing Chavez would put a similar tyrant in power. That would not be a concern here, except that Venezuela is flush with their oil riches

Do you know anything about how the income from the oil is disbursed? Because the majority of that money is not going to Venezueala. Its going to former dictators of Venezueala who ripped the country off,and are holding all its bank notes. The US and WTO help support this. One thing Chavez has done to piss off the US and WTO is he has said he FIRST wants to use oil revenues to help Venezuealans. Building schools, hospitals, etc... The US and WTO don't like that. They want Chavez to keep paying the former tin-pot dictators of Venezueala.

quote:

and Chavez is on the verge of abolishing the token democracy and fully implementing a communist dictatorship and begin to undermine all the democracies of Central and South America in conjunction with Cuba.

I'll need proof of that if you please. All I have heard is that Chavez has called on South American countries to band together economically to help fight the intrusions by the US. The US has messed up South Ameria by installing so many dictators in the past, and continues to do so. Look up "School of the Americas" to get an idea of what I mean.

quote:

I admit that assasination of Chavez is probably an insufficient response to the problem. We probably need to launch a full-scale military operation there.

Full scale military force based on what? He has no ties to terrorism, no WMDs, no threat against the US's national security. Other countries ARE allowed to exist and run their country the way they like. You and others like you are the ones threatening neighbours and threatening America's safety by making comments like that.

Also the US's policy concerning Cuba is idiotic at best. What has pissd off the US is that Cuba has grown economically, and is doing better every year, even with the embargo. The embargo is outdated and does absolutely nothing.

My father was going to head back to Cuba this year, (he says teh Caribbean during the winter months) two years ago he spent 3 months in Cuba and loved it. He wanted to go back, but the US government put out a policy that said ANY vessel, from ANY nation can be boarded and seized if they are seen leaving Cuba. (they don't have to be carrying illegals, or illegal goods) The US Coast Guard has come out and said they won't enforce it, but the policy is still there, and it makes people from other nations uneasy. The US has no right to threaten people from other countries this way.

Qikdraw

[namedun]

Does everyone remember how the first World War started? The assisnation of Arch-Duke Ferdinand was the spark, but the gas that supplied the entire explosion was mainly just nations rattling their sabres at each other. There was a documentable atmosphere of desire for conflict within Europe, and I now believe that national leaders and the media are trying to cultivate this exact same atmosphere in the US. What exactly am I talking about? Just watch the news, see the names of countries dropped with vague or non existant evidence, but quasi-accused of harboring terrorists, creating nuclear weapons, etc.

[Trailscout]

Pakistan is not an admirable country, but most of our problems there come from some renegade provinces near the Afghan border. We probably came close to declaring war on them, but looks like Musharaaf decided to cooperate with us.

Iraq has done plenty to deserve invasion. They were briefly occupying part of Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War, they were bombing Israel, they attempted to block the Straits of Hormuz. They were committing genocide just as Slobby Milosovich did (and which President Clinton saw fit to invade the former Yugoslavia).

The investors who built the oil infrastructure of Venezuela deserve to be paid for their efforts. I have seen no evidence that they are former dictators, but that would hardly disqualify them from receiving a fair profit for their labors. I have no problem with Venezuela imposing a tax on oil sales to fund social programs, but stealing the oil equipment from its owners is not justified.

Chavez is an undisputed pawn of Cuba and Cuba is well-known for international terrorism and exporting revolution and warfare. Chavez just signed his death warrant by his profession of solidarity with the last little evil empire of the Caribbean. The Monroe Doctrine is justification alone for war on both countries. I agree that the embargo against Cuba is a stupid useless gesture, when all-out war is the real solution.

Sorry about your Dad, but if he chooses to visit a hostile nation, he will have no one but himself to blame if he gets arrested or shot for treason.

[Qikdraw]

quote:

Originally posted by Trailscout:
Pakistan is not an admirable country, but most of our problems there come from some renegade provinces near the Afghan border. We probably came close to declaring war on them, but looks like Musharaaf decided to cooperate with us.

So did Osama Bin Ladin and look where that got us. So did Saddam.

quote:

Iraq has done plenty to deserve invasion. They were briefly occupying part of Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War, they were bombing Israel, they attempted to block the Straits of Hormuz. They were committing genocide just as Slobby Milosovich did (and which President Clinton saw fit to invade the former Yugoslavia).

So if commiting genocide is a reason to step into a country, why are we not in Sudan? I agree that that would be a good reason to go into a country and I would support such a measure, but oddly enough none of the reasons you mentioned were original reasons for going into Iraq. Genocide is a conveinient excuse now, but it wasn't used originally. Plus teh Reagan administration was shaking hands with Saddam while he gassed people, and supported him through that. In fact even stopped congress from passing measures to sanction Saddam for the gassing.

quote:

The investors who built the oil infrastructure of Venezuela deserve to be paid for their efforts. I have seen no evidence that they are former dictators, but that would hardly disqualify them from receiving a fair profit for their labors. I have no problem with Venezuela imposing a tax on oil sales to fund social programs, but stealing the oil equipment from its owners is not justified.

"Owners" who originally stole that ownership from Venezueala. I suggest doing some research on it.

quote:

Chavez is an undisputed pawn of Cuba and Cuba is well-known for international terrorism and exporting revolution and warfare. Chavez just signed his death warrant by his profession of solidarity with the last little evil empire of the Caribbean. The Monroe Doctrine is justification alone for war on both countries. I agree that the embargo against Cuba is a stupid useless gesture, when all-out war is the real solution.

How is stopping European expansion into the Americas a basis for all out war in South America?

quote:

Sorry about your Dad, but if he chooses to visit a hostile nation, he will have no one but himself to blame if he gets arrested or shot for treason.

Treason? What are you talking about? My father is Canadian, and as such is allowed to travel into Cuba without restriction. Even if the US is idiotic about it.

What you are promoting is why people around the world hate Americans, and is also the reason why Americans are in danger around the world. You are eroding national security and the lives of Americans by promoting all out war on nations that have done nothing to you.

You seem to have skipped by my request for information on Chavez taking away democracy as well.

Qikdraw

[Trailscout]

quote:

Originally posted by Qikdraw:
...Plus teh Reagan administration was shaking hands with Saddam while he gassed people, and supported him through that. In fact even stopped congress from passing measures to sanction Saddam for the gassing.


Treason? What are you talking about? My father is Canadian, and as such is allowed to travel into Cuba without restriction. Even if the US is idiotic about it.

What you are promoting is why people around the world hate Americans, and is also the reason why Americans are in danger around the world. You are eroding national security and the lives of Americans by promoting all out war on nations that have done nothing to you.

You seem to have skipped by my request for information on Chavez taking away democracy as well.

Qikdraw

I refer you to CNN for the scoop on Chavez's publically announced intentions to abolish democracy. It's all over today's news.

I voted for Jimmy Carter, not Reagan. I am a Democrat, just a conservative one.

There are millions of Cuban expatriates who hate Castro, having first-hand knowledge of his repression of freedom of religion, the press, and freedom to travel.
I hope that they will join forces with freedom lovers on the island to liberate Cuba someday.

JFK's dream took us to the moon before the decade ended. Let's help fulfil his dream of freedom for Cuba!!

Viva Cuba Libre!

[S.M.A.]

I'm going to make this short and sweet: even though I don't entirely agree with what he said, it does make a bit more sense that when he suggested that we nuke the Department of State.

Stuart

[Naturist Mark]

quote:

Originally posted by Trailscout:
Pakistan is not an admirable country, but most of our problems there come from some renegade provinces near the Afghan border. We probably came close to declaring war on them, but looks like Musharaaf decided to cooperate with us.

The nation of Pakistan is not our friend - although many of it's fine people are. Pakistan has traditionally been an American "ally", mostly just to annoy India (and to counterbalance India's former tilt towards the Soviets), but it has never been a good ally. Pakistan deliberately created the Taliban (with financing from Saudi Arabia)- they are not an indiginous Afghani movement.

Pakistan is the greatest proliferator of nuclear weapons technology ever - they sold it to North Korea, Libya, Iran, Iraq and apparently anyone else willing to pay. When they were forced to roll up A Q Khan's network (Khan is the "father" of the Pakistani Bomb), they made him make a public confession - then pardoned him. They are also involved in developing missile technology in cooperation with North Korea, which they funded by selling their advances to just about anyone.

Pakistan had a history of supporting and harboring terrorist groups - and not just in the 'ungovernable' border provinces. That has officially changed, but many of the now banned groups have resurfaced under new names stronger than ever.

Trailscout in undoubtedly correct that if Pakistan did agree to become an US ally, it would have become a target- for good cause.

Pakistan has been doing well for us as an ally, despite their past guilt. Most of the key al-Qaeda players caught to date have been captured by Pakistan. The system of virilently anti-American and extremist fundamentalist madrassahs (religious schools) in Pakistan (funded by Saudi Arabia) are being shut down or converted to mainstream Muslim schools (these madrassahs in Pakistan are where the Taliban movement was created among Afghani exiles during the Soviet occupation).

Because of its position at the heart of al-Qaeda operations and its long connections to vowed enemies of the US, Pakistan may very well be the most important and indispensible ally we have in the War on Terror. But we should not kid ourselves into believing they are reliable allies.

*******************

On a completely separate note, isn't it about time that we stop calling Pat Robertson a Christian?

-Mark