Election 2016

[Skinview]

Who is your candidate for President?

[Mosquito_Bait]

A better question is which candidate is friendliest toward nude recreation. My guess is Bernie Sanders. Rand Paul tries to present himself as a libertarian, but he veers conservative on social issues.

[Skinview]

A better question is which candidate is friendliest toward nude recreation.

That would be a good question for another thread.

My guess is Bernie Sanders.

I could only guess what he would say, but even if he was the friendliest, I would never vote for a socialist.

Rand Paul tries to present himself as a libertarian, but he veers conservative on social issues.

Rand Paul clearly is a libertarian. Abortion is the only social issue that I am aware of where he is socially conservative. Since libertarianism doesn't try to answer the question of when someone is old enough to have a right to life, a libertarian might have any position on abortion and still be very libertarian.

[Mosquito_Bait]

^^ No, I'm not buying that Rand Paul is a genuine libertarian. On most social issues such as gay marriage and the legalization of marijuana, Rand Paul's position is that the federal government should have no role, but the state governments should be free to impose whatever laws they want. Rand Paul isn't a libertarian. He's a states-rights Republican.

[Biker]

Gary Johnson. https://www.garyjohnson2016.com/

[Skinview]

^^ No, I'm not buying that Rand Paul is a genuine libertarian. On most social issues such as gay marriage and the legalization of marijuana, Rand Paul's position is that the federal government should have no role, but the state governments should be free to impose whatever laws they want.

Rand Paul says that states have the power to do what they want, but he certainly does not want them to send people to jail for using drugs, and he thinks government should get out of marriage altogether. There is a world of difference between what the government has the power to do and what it ought to do. The Federal Government ought to be free to obliterate Canada with nuclear weapons, and it also really ought not to do that.

"I think that there's a religious connotation to marriage that has been going on for thousands of years I still want to preserve that. But I also believe people ought to be treated fairly under the law. I see no reason why, if the marriage contract conveys certain things, that if [a woman] wants to marry another woman, they can do that and have a contract. You could have traditional marriage, and then you could also have the neutrality of the law that allows [same-sex couples] to have contracts with one another. Source: CNN SOTU 2015 interviews of 2016 presidential hopefuls , Apr 12, 2015

Rand Paul isn't a libertarian. He's a states-rights Republican.

He is a states rights libertarian. The is nothing unlibertarian about defending the Constitution.

[Skinview]

Gary Johnson. https://www.garyjohnson2016.com/

He would probably make a good President, but the creation of the Libertarian Party was a dumb idea. It just helps elect Democrats by draining votes from the Republican candidates.

[usuallylurk]

He would probably make a good President, but the creation of the Libertarian Party was a dumb idea. It just helps elect Democrats by draining votes from the Republican candidates.

And the Libertarian Party is going to continue to gain any serious acceptance until they stop accepting anyone with really radical views - those who believe in repeal of age-of-consent laws, those who believe that all recreational drugs should be legalized, those who refuse to pay income tax, those who want prostitution legalized, etc.

Not all Libs subscribe to those things - but it seems that the LP has some elements within it that DO.

[Mosquito_Bait]

...
He is a states rights libertarian. ...

There is no such thing as a "states rights libertarian". Rand Paul has tried to appeal to both libertarians and religious conservatives by taking the position that the federal government should stay out of people's private lives, but the state governments should continue to pass whatever laws they want. The result has been that both libertarians and social conservatives find Rand Paul suspicious. If Rand Paul had focused on trying to appeal to one group or the other, his polling numbers might actually have been high enough to get a place on the main stage for the Republican debates. I expect he will be ending his presidential campaign very soon.

I do wish to thank you for starting a thread that has given this forum some life.

[atalanta]

Well, well - Skinview. There's a name that used to be very familiar on this forum. Perhaps been in hibernation since the last presidential election year? Anyway welcome back, and buckle up everyone for some serious arguments.
In regard to the marriage comment in post#6, there is indeed no reason for objection to contracts between persons of the same sex concerning material matters. Since dictionaries were first written, marriage has been defined as a union between a man and a woman for the purposes of procreation. To call a relationship between a woman and a woman or a man and a man a marriage is to chuck the dictionaries out the window. There are many terms that could be, and are or have been used. Why use one that means something completely different? This has nothing to do with rights and obligations - those can be dealt with. But it is like suddenly deciding to call a potato a banana - nonsensical.

[Mosquito_Bait]

... Since dictionaries were first written, marriage has been defined as a union between a man and a woman for the purposes of procreation. To call a relationship between a woman and a woman or a man and a man a marriage is to chuck the dictionaries out the window. There are many terms that could be, and are or have been used. Why use one that means something completely different? This has nothing to do with rights and obligations - those can be dealt with. But it is like suddenly deciding to call a potato a banana - nonsensical.

Social conventions evolve, and so do word definitions. I can remember a time when "gay" meant "happy".

[jon71]

Personally I support Hillary Clinton to be our next President, she is most prepared to be commander-in-chief on day one. As for Rand Paul he is a radical anti-choice extremist and viciously anti gay rights, two positions that are as un-libertarian as you can get. He is a CONSERVATIVE whether he wants to admit it or not.

[Mosquito_Bait]

^^ Yeah, I like Hillary Clinton's positions on most issues, and I agree that she is the best prepared to be president, but I would not hesitate to support Bernie Sanders or Martin O'Malley if either of them were to win the Democratic nomination. I'd still be interested to know if any of them, or any of the Republicans, would be tolerant of nudists on federally controlled beaches.

[Skinview]

^^ Yeah, I like Hillary Clinton's positions on most issues, and I agree that she is the best prepared to be president

I think she is the best qualified to be an inmate in a Federal prison.

[Skinview]

As for Rand Paul he is a radical anti-choice extremist and viciously anti gay rights, two positions that are as un-libertarian as you can get. He is a CONSERVATIVE whether he wants to admit it or not.

Same ol jon71...