Hillary's Universal Health Care Plan

[Sanslines]

Here is the latest on Hillarys' Universal Health Care Plan:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20819827/

What an idea! Create universal health care by creating and passing laws that force people to have health insurance. If tax credits are not sufficient and poor people still can not afford to pay out even more money for health care coverage, we can fine and jail them for breaking the new laws. Brilliant!

[walter05]

Sanslines;

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. The MSNBC source is helpful. However, I have found a couple of others that provide more detail.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/featur...n/summary.aspx provides a summary of the plan. It is from the official Hillary Clinton For President website.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/am...ealthchoicesplan.pdf provides a link to the entire plan.

I think the plan shows some promise. Currently, large companies such as GM and Ford are spending large sums on health insurance. Paying for health care is one reason these automakers have a hard time staying in business.

Hospitals must treat all emergency patients. Trauma Centers are in danger of closing because they treat so many without getting paid.

Since hospitals must treat indigents, they apportion out the costs and paying patients pay them. This puts additional burden on insurance companies. As a result premiums paid by employers and private individuals go up.

Clearly the current system is broken. At this time, military personnel and retirees, federal government workers, state government workers, local government workers, teachers, retirees on social security, and poor people on Medicaid get government paid medical care. It is therefore clear that the government is already in the business of providing healthcare.

I would prefer a system that has incentives and penalties for healthy habits to control costs. Those who smoke and/or weigh too much and/or exercise too little should be required to pay more than those who take care of themselves.

I am also concerned for how it will be paid for.

While I think this system as proposed has serious problems, I think it is a good start. We really need to do something. The current system is bad for business and bad for healthcare.

[KNude]

Any health care provider can tell you how hard it is to work with many different payees ( insurance companies) each with their own set of rules and regulations and billing requirements. Much money can be saved by a using a central payer system. Also, although I can no longer cite the source, the government actually manages the process, more effectively and with less overhead, therefore less cost than the private sector.

I realize Insurance companies, billing services, computerized billing clearing houses, advertising agencies, etc. would take a beating or go out of businees but we no longer keep many buggy whip makers in business either.

[usmc1]

Senator Clinton's plan is a good starting point for getting this extremely important policy issue front and center in the presidential races.

As with all such "plans" the devil will be in the details and much negotiation, concession giving and compromise will take place before any final "plan" is put forth or takes effect.

The honorable lady from New York has demonstrated tremendous courage by taking the initiative on this issue after the whipping the Republicans and their paymasters: Big Insurance, Pharmaceuticals, and the HMOs rendered her on the last go around.

We'll see, but this is certain, aside from Iraq, this is the issue of 2008. Voters may really be given a clear cut choice on this overriding issue.

Personally, so far, I'm underwhelmed with all their "plans". Anthing less than cradle to grave, universal health care, including dentistry, mental health, annual check ups, cancer screening, vision and long-term, in-place care will be a sell out to the right wing.

Who pays? The military industrial complex and the extremely wealthy will share their fair share burden along with the rest of us who pay taxes.

[MJ_KC]

The current system for paying for medical care is seriously broken and Clinton's plan is a very good starting point.

This issue has become too obvious a problem for Republicans to dismiss if they have a single clue.

[Naturist Mark]

I'd make a few changes to Hillary's plan.

* Medicare as a base program for everyone. Every citizens qualifies, no matter what.
* Alternative programs would be allowed, funded by a capitation fee from the government equivalent to Medicare, plus whatever additional premiums enlistees are willing to individually pay for.
* Under no circumstance may these private plans provide less coverage in ANY category than Medicare. If private insurers are going to continue to divert 30 percent of premiums to overhead, dividends, and outrageous CEO compensation, they will also have to be far more efficient than Medicare at providing health care services.
* No cherry picking clients. No rejecting coverage for pre-existing conditions.
* The same Premiums for the same coverage for all comers. Insurance is supposed to be the sharing of risk, not discrimination on the basis of risk.
* There should an exemption to anti-trust laws to allow insurers to share risk for catastrophic expenses.

Some may complain that I've set up a system that won't allow insurance companies to make money on health care.

Too bad.

They are making fist fulls of money now, while degrading the quality of health care delivered to the public. America has the worst health care in the industrialized world - the overall quality of our health care system puts us firmly in the third world. More than anyone else, this is the fault of our health insurance companies. As far as I'm concerned they no longer have a right to exist. I'd prefer a pure single payer system of private health providers with government run universal health insurance, but I'm willing to let the private insurers participate if they have to play by the same rules as Medicare.

-Mark

[Sanslines]

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
The current system for paying for medical care is seriously broken and Clinton's plan is a very good starting point.

This issue has become too obvious a problem for Republicans to dismiss if they have a single clue.

The current system is very much broken. Over twenty percent of our population has no health care coverage and this ongoing serious problem is only getting worse. One of the most serious problems with our present system of health coverage is that the uninsured have no protection from being charged the full fee for services rendered. Those with medicare, medicaid, or private health insurance are protected with fee caps.

One of the major reasons why so many in our nation do not have health care is because they can not afford the health insurance coverage payments. The gamble and hope that they do not become ill for if they do become ill, then the costs of that illness can easily bankrupt them.

I am not sure offering tax credits to the poor is a good way to help them, as the poor do not earn that much money and therefore either do not pay income tax or pay very little and thus such credits will not be of much help to them. Also, any additional costs or fees to the poor (ie copayments and deductable excesses), are a burden that they can not afford. Those who can afford insurance most likely will have insurance to prevent them from being wiped out due to a catastrophic illness. Those who can not afford any health insurance will only be able to afford it if there is a means to charge them either a very small copayment or they receive free health care coverage.

I agree with Obama in that mandating health insurance and offering only tax credits will unfairly burden the poor and they are the ones who need health care coverage the most.

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
Some may complain that I've set up a system that won't allow insurance companies to make money on health care.

Too bad.

Sounds like an equitable plan.

Can you imagine the amount of money that would get tossed around by lobbyists to see that this never happens?

[Sanslines]

Some may complain that I've set up a system that won't allow insurance companies to make money on health care.

I think that the major event that ruined health care was to change it from a basic necessity of life to a for profit business. Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, medical establishments are making enormous amounts of money and can charge whatever they wish to the uninsured. Only those with medicare, medicaid, and insurance are offered some protections as these organizations set limits as to what they can be charged for services.

[chickenman]

there is simple way to solve the problem of the poor and indigent if they can not pay make them work off there bills or for them to pay taxes since the poor don't pay taxes now they will have pay. If poor need service take all there pay and provide there needs since they cannot do it themselves. If they are illegal make them pay up front. If they don't have jobs make people pick up litter or garbage on the streets. If are drug addict that OD no treatment just let them die since they want it that way. If wish to poison you self your out of luck. Mandate the food those the government cover eat since if taxes pay for you health care you have eat only healthy food. If you smoke your out luck. If you sick do to your own vices we make your relatives pay.

[Sanslines]

Mark,

This may be of interest to you. It is an article about how Americans are finding low cost and affordable dental care by traveling to Mexico. It appears to be all about costs.

http://www.dentistasdemexico.com/ind...newsstory.html

[nudenwv]

sure hope she knows what she is talking about!!

[nudebushwalker]

The health system over there is stuffed - that seems to be the one thing everyone agrees on...

It is stuffed because of the healthcare funds, pharmaceutical companies, and hospital operators - the costs they get away with over there are exorbitant - that's why it is always highly suggested that visitors to the USA are well insured..

It is those invested interests that seem to lead the fight against a national health system.
The USA is the only 'western' country that doesn't have a nationalised healthcare system.
Canada, Australia, Britain, Russia and Cuba have 'universal' health cover systems in place (even though there has been some 'dismantling' of the Australian and Canadian systems, they are still far superior to anything in the US..).
The fact that health cover hasn't bankrupted any of these countries puts the lie to the propaganda being spread around by those vested interests in the USA.

The USA is the only 'western' country where medical/health costs are a leading cause of bankruptcies, (as reported in another thread..).

[usmc1]

Somehow, not necessarily in this thread, there exists the notion that Medicare is somehow a charitable free ride for those who are on it---mostly older Americans.

It is not. To have "full" medical and hospital coverage the cost is about $260 per month per person. A retired couple would be paying around $520 in premiums. There are many gaps in the coverage so recipients are prudent to buy supplemental or "gap" coverage with premiums, depending on age, geography and various different plans, ranging from $100 to $180 or more. Our retired couple are now paying $720 per month for health care--before drugs.

Plan D drug coverage, again depending on your plan, can run from $20 to $100, with about $275 in deductible, a near $3,000 doughnut hole where coverage stops but premiums continue until you reach around $6,000 - $7,000 in total drug costs before coverage resumes. There is a 25% co-pay for the drugs up until the doughnut hole at which time the couple must begin paying full-price.

So, our retirees, who, let us say worked at Enron or any of the thousands of other companies who have bailed on their pensions plans, have valueless 401ks, and no retiree health benefits might be drawing $2500 (and that is a very, very high estimate) from Social Security each month.

Of that, nearly $1,000 gets zapped for health care protection which does not provide: Dental, Vision, Preventative, Cancer Screening, Orthotics, Long-term, in-place care, or Mental Health.

So, our retired couple are "getting by" on $1500 a month and living at the precarious edge of disaster. Let's hope they don't still have a mortgage, and their autos, appliances, and so forth are in good working order. Otherwise, catastrophe awaits them.

Folks, that is the scenario that our current Older Americans face, and which the so-called "boomers" have to look forward to. And, in truth, you can slice any demography you wish: suburban families, young singles, single parents, and you will find them facing similar impossible choices and situations.

Health Care reform which includes affordable, quality, universal, cradle-to-grave coverage which includes all the things now left out has to be the very basic demand of the electorate this cycle, or the opportunity will probably be gone for a very, very long time.

Bush was beaten back on his attempt to hand Social Security over to Wall Street, he has enough energy left and will make an attempt before he leaves office to privatize Medicare and Medicaid by turning them over to Insurance Companies and HMOs. Humana has already started their marketing campaigns to try to divert Medicare recipients into their deplorable and disastrous Medicare-Advantage plan.

Senator Clinton's putting the issue front and center in the presidential race gives We The People the opportunity to hear and see all the plans and to debate and learn more before we decide which plan we want.

But, don't let anyone shivvy you into thinking the money is not there. It's there--we're already paying for it, except with enormous gaps in protection for way too many good, decent people---that cost merely needs to shifted, in part, from the pockets of our older citizens and hard working families to from the over flowing coffers of the wealthy, corporations and military-industrial complex.

[Nu]

We have universal health care in Canada.
It works well, except for the long waits in some instances to see GP's, specialists, and to have operations.

I waited quite some time to have a specialist look at my hernia. In the end, my GP and specialist got me in on an emergency basis and my hernia was fixed.