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**Im Naked, are You** · 08-04-2002, 07:07 PM

Hello gang.
To begin with I am a little heated at the moment, so I apologize if it shows up in this post.
My original posts that I wrote were to the effect of wanting to go to Laguna Del Sol for a wonderful weekend with some of you fine folks, some fun, and to meet new freinds. After talking with some of you, I started getting the ball rolling. I was getting ready to sighn up for INA (to be a member) and I wanted to make sure that I could make my reservation with Laguna Del Sol. I had a rather unpleasant conversation with the manager as all that she would tell me was that I had to come with my wife, that is the policy. But it is ok to come if your not married, because your not married . This is discrimination. My wife does not share my desire to be clothes free and I respect that. I will not lie to the resort and say I am not married to get in because I Love my wife and I am proud she is my wife (not my slave, in other words I will not force her to go to something she doesnt want to go to). Everybody preaches how clothes free is awesome and we need to try and promote it, yet when it comes down to it, If your married and your spouce has plans or doesnt share your choice, well then by golly SLAM. The door is slammed in your face! I was truly looking forward to this event, and now I see it is apparently for an elite group. Again I must say this is descrimination. Please someone prove me wrong. If you cant then perhaps we can band together and stop this stupid policy, not just for me but for all married folks.
Respectfully yours,
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

**nudeatheart** · 08-05-2002, 01:04 AM

Now you have some idea of the way we single men feel. We are also discriminated against. The reason being given is that people are afraid that we are there only to look, rather than to enjoy being clothes-free. We are limited to nudity at home. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

**Im Naked, are You** · 08-05-2002, 03:06 AM

Nudeatheart,
Thanks for the reply. I do have an idea as to what you are feeling, however in this case,you as a single male would be allowed access, because you are not in a "committed relationship" according to their policy. What is the problem here? According to an email sent to me from them, and by the way this is on their web site as well I believe:
"This is a clothes-free resort and the philosophy is "unclothed when possible, clothed when practical".
I understand this, I have no problem with this.
"If it becomes apparent that a person is more interested in "sightseeing" than participating, this is not the place for them, and they will be asked to leave...
Obviously, voyeureism, unwelcome remarks, comments, solicitations or behavior of a provocative or sexual nature are prohibited".
Ok first off this would not be my intent nor would I do any of the above, but what about other people? Does it not state that if you are doing this offense you would be asked to leave??? By golly if I am doing this kick me out, because I dont belong there.
I talked to my wife about it and she doesnt understand either. her thought is mabey they dont want guys their looking at women. A good and valid point, but if I may direct you to some of your posts, by your own admissions you to tend to look. Women are just as guilty in this case. Are they afraid that they might get a sexual preditor? Ok, well then they need to up their security measurs, because sexual preditors come in all walks of life, from your homeless to your pastors from your police officers to your lawyers and your judges. Married or not they exist in all walks of life. I am married to my childhood sweetheart, I have three children of my own. My point being you dont know who is walking through the gate, married, single, straight or gay. We are their to enjoy the festivities, the fellowship among freinds new and old alike, and above all the freedom of choice. Why then is that freedom being taken away from certain individuals, yet being given freely to others? I am sorry to be long winded about this, it not meant as a personal attack on anyone except those clubs that want to discriminate against people like myself or people like Nudeatheart for no logical explanation. Sorry again, Im just really steamed over this and personally I feel it is an injustice and it should stop or perhaps the clubs shouldnt exist. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

**splitfeather** · 08-05-2002, 03:43 AM

Sorry to hear of your unpleasent experince with Laguna Del Sol, and of others who are singles and experince the same.
I am married and my wife and I both are members of a club in Oregon that welcomes singles (both genders), and we have made friends with number of them. A married spouse may attened with out the other as the club understands the situations that many come up against.
It is sad that some clubs discriminate as stated as they are loosing a warm and contibuting part of the wonderful life of nudism. Know that many of us who are married and enjoy being able to go nudist clubs as a couple do understand and care about the single situation. It is unfair and we do speak up for the situation when we can.
Even as a couple, we have recived no response to some inquires. So it does happen to all of us. But there is a push by NNRA and others to resolve this problem. But it may take a while but a change will come.
So keep the faith as it would be, keep asking and stay courteous in your inquiries as a negitive response back only fuels their reason to be stubborn on the issue. I belive that INA will be big part in seeing doors begin to open in clubs and respond with favor to the single and married single issue.
Wishing you all the best in your pursuit of the social nudist life.

Tom (florence Oregon) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

**Im Naked, are You** · 08-05-2002, 04:11 AM

splitfeather,
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
I was wondering if perhaps I was alone.
Peace to you and yours,
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

08-05-2002, 06:29 AM

I'm a divorced 56-year-old dad and granddad. The only thing negative I've experienced so far was to be told that I would be "watched" when I joined a nudist club about 58 miles from me. I'm sure they have never said that to any married man who came with his wife.

I'm in a way "glad" that the discrimination isn't just against unmarried men. Though of course I'm not actually glad of the discrimination. Discrimination of all kinds needs to stop.

There needs to be more trust and the acceptance that nudists "preach" but seldom practice. I've only been into social nudity for just over a year, and I'm getting very discouraged with it. I feel like I don't belong because I'm alone. I would love to find an unattached middle-aged nudist lady who isn't too particular since I'm no prize catch, but how do I do that? As a "single" I'm not trusted, and my motive, like yours, is suspect. I hate clothes and love being nude. I go to Turtle Lake Resort when I have the money and haven't had any problem getting in, but I feel as alone as I actually am. If I meet another male who's there alone, I often find he's "gay". The couples keep to themselves, and I feel like a fifth wheel and out of place.

Apparently, as I've said before, social nudism is only for married couples who come together and preferably with their children. In some cases it's only for the rich because the cost is so high.

Of course, the reason the cost is so high is because they discriminate so much against married men who want to come but their wives don't, and against unmarried men who are often refused admittance. Even the places that accept unmarried men do it on a limited basis, and the men are under suspicion. I'm not really surprised to find that married men who go alone are treated the same way or even refused admittance entirely. The belief is that you're there without your wife's knowledge like one man I met who was, and he tried to get a woman at the resort to rent a cabin with him for the night. That kind of behavior makes it difficult for other well intentioned man who just want to enjoy being nude with other people instead of having to stay home and run around nude in their homes. One married man told me I should only go to a club with other unmarried men. I have no intention of doing that.

Also, as I've said before, clubs and resorts will never grow until they cease being so suspicious and mistrusting. They talk about body acceptance, but they don't practice acceptance. Only certain people are allowed in, and the rest of us are either rejected or "watched" very closely. This is also a sore spot for me. Instead of rejecting someone simply because he's alone, let him in and "watch" his behavior. I understand my having been watched for inappropriate behavior. What I don't understand is being told that I would be watched. That made me very self-conscious and feeling as though I was only being tolerated but wasn't wanted there.

I understand watching for inappropriate behavior, but EVERYONE should be watched not just the men who are alone. Despite a common belief among married people, not ALL unmarried men are perverts. In fact, many child molestors and rapists are married. However, married men whose wives accompany them are fully trusted. No man, whether married or not, is trusted if he goes alone.

When will the discrimination end? Probably never as long as people have such suspicious minds. Certainly never as long as they are so paranoid. I understand being careful and protective, particularly of the yound and innocent, but leave out the suspicion, mistrust, paranoia, and discrimination, and add a little more security to weed out the undesirables by keeping an eye on everyone and not just certain men who are alone. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

**Bob S.** · 08-05-2002, 06:39 AM

What I believe is the reason for such discrimination of married, but unaccompanied men (unaccompanied wives may be the same way) is that they do not want to become a liabilty in a divorce case.

Don't take my word for this as I am not sure, but it seems reasonable. If the couple divorces, nudism may be brought up as an issue and if the husband visited a nudist park without his wife's permission or knowledge, that might come out and the mnagement may be dragged into the case, especially in a divorce case with children involved in a custody dispute.

Just a hypothesis.

Bob S.

**Im Naked, are You** · 08-05-2002, 06:42 AM

Nude Always,
Well said. You have hit the nail on the head. Less suspicion, more security. As with you I am becoming discouraged. In an effort to curb the issue I want to learn what it takes to run a club, then mabey some day a resort. I tell you what though if I am lucky enough to have it work, everyone will be welcome! You know I called a local club this morning and I got the same "couples only" routine. Thats pathetic. Thank You for your Post it means alot to me. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

**Im Naked, are You** · 08-05-2002, 07:03 AM

Bob S.
First of all, I respect what you say, I have been reading these posts for the last couple of days and I see your name pop up constitly. I look forward to your replies.
You bring up a valid point, one that I could argue, but I wont right now. I will say this though, if that is what they are hiding behind then they need to rework their registration paperwork (assuming they use some form of registration form? I have never been to a resort)to include the fact that they will not be liable in the event of such maritle (sp)disputes. I am not a lawyer, but surely their is some form of protection. Thanks Bob S. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

**nudeatheart** · 08-06-2002, 01:41 AM

I'm Naked, are You,

I have just read your response making reference to my posts in which YOU have stated my desire to go to resorts is for the purpose of "looking".
In the few posts that I have made I have never stated this as my purpose for wanting to go to these resorts or clubs. I do not "tend" to look. As a matter of fact, as a single male, not being welcome in these places, my nudism experinces have been the stay-at home variety.

08-06-2002, 09:17 AM

Hi Im Naked R U .... I agree with you completely. It seems the answer is more security not discrimination.This was suggested as a way to eliminate undesireable behavior at CO beaches and should be the policy at private resorts. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

**Im Naked, are You** · 08-06-2002, 02:33 PM

Nudeatheart,
PLEASE ACCEPT MY MOST HUMBLE APOLIGIES. I just finished rereading my post, and it was poorly written. When I said you I was not referring to you, it was a blanket statement. I have read many posts where men have admitted they like to look, This was not meant to offend anybody and I apoligize for making it sound like I was attacking you, I am sorry.
Thank you OUTDOORBARE, I appreciate your support.

I want to ask a question here: If we, we being single, or married, or even gay men are having trouble getting into these clubs and resorts, is there nothing we can do? I mean can we band together and go to INA or whoever is supposed to be supporting us and helping us out, cant we go to them in mass, you know with signed petitions or something and see if this discrimination can stop? I was just wondering, because it seems to me that their are alot of us out their with the same problem.
Ok just one other question then I will back out for now: Ladies, Do you have any problems getting into either clubs and or resorts for the same reason?
And again, Nudeatheart, I am really sorry, it is never my intent to hurt or offend anyone in my posts.
Thanks folks,
Respectfully yours, [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]
Ok, I know I said one more question, but I have to ask:
Before finding out that I was not a welcome guest at Laguna Del Sol, I was getting the credit card out so I could become an official INA member. At this point it seems kind of like a mute issue. Is thier any logical explanation why I should become a member if I cant even get into clubs or resorts?
Thanks for your input.
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] Peace

**Bartamus** · 08-06-2002, 05:55 PM

Dear I.N.A.Y....I think you should know by
now there are a host of reasons why you
should join INA. For precisely the reason
why you were discriminated by Laguna Del Sol.
INA is linked with the Naturist Action
Committee to fight these prevailing attitudes. NAC lobbies Congress to keep nude
areas open. As for resorts, its a tougher
issue because it involves private property.
Laguna has recently recognized INA as a
legitimate representation of the naturist
movement. Obviously our goal is for
established resorts and movements to realize
that our group is dedicated to bringing
younger people into naturism and the majority
of those folks are single! You are a young
person even though you are married.
Remember we're still a young organization
we've only been around since 1999. It takes
time to change attitudes. By joining with
us you're helping achieve that change

**nudedude** · 08-06-2002, 07:46 PM

Bartamus,
Finally! It's about time Laguna del Sol recognized INA. Are they now offering the same discounts to INA members as they do to AANR and other clubs? See you guys there for Nudestock.

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