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Are there any legal gurus out there that could help in making up a petition to present to the Army Corps of Engineers, in Oklahoma for a nude or clothing optional beach? I'd like to see one developed on Lake Texoma.
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Are there any legal gurus out there that could help in making up a petition to present to the Army Corps of Engineers, in Oklahoma for a nude or clothing optional beach? I'd like to see one developed on Lake Texoma. -
good luck, It ain't gonna happenComment
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Don't know as I'd go so far as to say that, but the odds are not in favor of the desired outcome. If it does happen it will provide a precedent from which others can work from.Comment
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If it's so darn hard to accomplish, I wonder how there's a place called HIPPIE HOLLOW, on Lake Travis in Austin, Texas. Never got a chance to check it out, but figured it to be a state owned area, maybe not....Comment
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I think that you need at least two of three things to be successful in getting a beach recognized as officially clothing-optional:
1. A beach with a long history of nude use.
2. A lobbying group with some political clout.
3. Proof that a clothing-optional beach will be a tourist draw.
Case in point: Toronto has now designated part of Hanlan's Point Beach as permanently clothing-optional. This beach is part of Toronto Islands, which are located in Toronto Harbour due south of the downtown area.
This beach has had nude use for many years, mostly from the gay community. TNT!Men (Totally Naked Toronto Men Enjoying Nudity), a gay men's nudist group, with help from other nudist groups, lobbied successfully to make the beach officially clothing-optional, and won.
Toronto has a strong gay community, with gay life being centred in one particular area of downtown. The local councillors, one of whom is gay himself, recognize this group as having considerable power, both politically and economically.
They need the gay vote to get reelected. In addition, gay tourists bring a lot of dollars (including those wonderful $1.50 American dollars) into the city.
These councillors backed the group's request at city council. The request was granted, first on a one-year trial basis, after which the beach was approved on a permanent basis.
GaryComment
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I assume you are in southern Oklahoma, since you are concerned with Lake Texoma. In 1985 we used a beach on the north end of Lake Lawton (between Lawton and Altus). I realize it's been nearly 18 years, but you never know. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]Comment
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I emailed the Army Corp of Engineers that control the facilitys at Lake Texoma, and told them about this Lake Travis, in Austin, Texas. Here is what they came back with. Am I optomistic or could he be saying, why not see how they got it passed at the state level, and submit something?
Subject: RE: Designating a Clothing Optional Beach - Lake Texoma
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 10:45:08 -0800
Have you contacted Travis County, TX to see what procedures they required? It appears the Lake Travis area is a county operated entity as opposed to Lake Texoma being operated by the U.S. Army, Corps of Engineers. As a federal agency we are generally bound to accommodate all comers without consideration for race, color, creed, national origin, sexual preference.....etc. In other words we don't set aside special areas for special people for special activities. All local, state, and other federal regulations are in affect and enforced by the appropriate agencies. Attire requirements are consistent with local rules and are enforced accordingly. There are no federal regulations pertaining specifically to nudity that we enforce.
James B. Vandergriff
Lead Ranger
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So does that sound like, if we could somehow get a rule inserted, or changed that would allow clothing optional in a designated area, would it be conceivable that they would allow it? , as long as no one was discriminated against.Comment
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I wouldn't get your hopes up but bearing in mind that you asked for it to be designated "clothing optional" and not "nudist" you could argue that you are not asking for them to set aside a special area for special activities but rather that you want them to "accommodate all comers without consideration for race, color, creed, national origin, sexual preference or clothing preference".
Originally posted by fordmustang:
[qb]As a federal agency we are generally bound to accommodate all comers without consideration for race, color, creed, national origin, sexual preference.....etc. In other words we don't set aside special areas for special people for special activities. [/qb]
You could also argue that nudism is not an activity (special or otherwise) - it's simply a state of being naked.
RikComment
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Your right to be nude rests in the hands of the county officials, not the Army Corps of Engineers.
Contact the county commissioners privately one by one and ask each of them their opinion on allowing skinnydipping at one place. Most politicians don't want to come right out and create an officially sponsored county nude beach, but they might agree to tell the sheriffs not to make any arrests for simple nudity on a certain section of beach. In Florida, the signs on the beach say, "Beyond this point you may encounter nude sunbathers".
Then it would be up to you and your friends to show up nude in big numbers. You want so many nude people that they spill over the margins of the offically clothing optional zone.
Even if you don't get permission, your county may openly tell you they don't have the time to enforce dress code on the beach. If so, that's your chance to set a precedent, which often a first step toward official recognition.
Don't try to do all this on your own. Contact all the non-landed nudist clubs in the area and ask them to help.
Why not get in touch with the Naturist Society's local chapter? They have a legal wing called the Naturist Action Committee.
I wish you well.Comment
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Someone from that legal advisory group recently posted detailed hints on finding a place to hold nude swims and I thought there were several helpful hints. One was to make and have several couples when you approach officials, or owners so they do not get the wrong idea of the intentions. If I can find this again I will respond but that was one idea that I think is a must for your success in this area.
Maxx [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]Comment
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Latest response from the Army Corp of Engineers:
It goes without saying that if there were no rules against nudity there wouldn't be any problem! Public nudity is a felony offense in Oklahoma. I don't know about Texas. Corps parks are regulated by 36CFR part 327. Those regulations do not contain any reference to nudity. I am unaware of any regulation governing other federal agencies that contain specific rules regarding nudity. The National Park Service, Bureau of Land Management, Fish and Wildlife Service and Bureau of Reclamation are other Federal Agencies that administer parks and recreational activities. Typically they are large areas within states where jurisdiction may lie entirely on the Federal Agency. I suspect that if local laws did not cover the local areas position on nudity, there would be a push to cause us to address the issue. There is no doubt it would be quite an attraction for those who are drawn to public nudity. I have serious doubts that any programs will be worked out with the Corps. Our changes in policy, rules and regulations, and general operating procedures are strongly influenced by congressional actions. That's what the U.S. Army, Corps of Engineers does for a living!
Jim Vandergriff, Lead Ranger
Texoma Lake Office, Tulsa District, COEComment
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Where I go the legal people kinda turn there heads, thats not to say on one day or the next, they won't write you, we go from day to day, if they want me, I will be nude on our "sometimes nude beach" be nude and enjoy when you can???Comment
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Oklahoma has passed a religious freedom restoration act which might provide relief. Given the US Supreme Courts interpretation that religion is any strongly held belief system that hold the equivilent place of traditional belief systems, it should be considered. The BEACHES meeting in Miami is planning on discussing the possible uses of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act in various counties in Florida. Also look onto the Legal links at www.naturist-christians.org for more information.
Bill Martin
www.naturist-christians.org
[email protected]Comment
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