Superstition

[Rex]

My Funk and Wagnalls dictionary gives a definition of superstition as "a belief founded on irrational feelings, especially of fear."
Anti-nudism seems to fit that definition, so is it right that so many govts are so desperate to perpetuate a superstition?

[Rex]

My Funk and Wagnalls dictionary gives a definition of superstition as "a belief founded on irrational feelings, especially of fear."
Anti-nudism seems to fit that definition, so is it right that so many govts are so desperate to perpetuate a superstition?

[Guest]

Rex

"Anti-nudism seems to fit that definition,"

I'm not sure I would class anti-nudism as being a 'superstition', in spite of what your dictionary says. I get the impression that it is generally inspired by religiously-based convictions concerning morality. It seems to me that the religious groups that are vehemently anti-nudist are fundamentalists and as such they tend to hold extreme views on other topics as well.

Have you ever actually spoken to anyone who you would describe as anti-nudist, Rex? I must say that I haven't.

"so is it right that so many govts are so desperate to perpetuate a superstition?"

How do you arrive at the conclusion that governments perpetuate anti-nudist sentiments, Rex? In my experience both the people and the government in my country adopt a benign and tolerant attitude towards responsible nudist activity.

As an outsider coming here I get the impression that many nudists unnecessarily feel persecuted either by textiles or by the authorities.

Stu

[Kenny G]

quote:

---

Originally posted by stu2630:

As an outsider coming here I get the impression that many nudists unnecessarily feel persecuted either by textiles or by the authorities.

Stu [/QB]

---

Wait a minute...what's this...did Stu actually post something that I'd have to agree with??? I believe you're right that some feel serious anxiety and a real fear of being arrested and the possibility of being labeled a sex offender. (This DOES happen, by the way) Of course, the possibility exists that this anxiety helps create the good feelings associated with being naked in the great outdoors. After all, my mother was very "prudish" in that she would rather die than be seen naked. She not only slept in a nightgown, but put a robe over it before even going to the bathroom. I wasn't, as a child, let play without a shirt on. As a result, when I finally was old enough to stay without a babysitter, I played naked the entire time my parents wern't home. There's much more to this story than outlined here, but if it were the perfect world most nudist envision, would we really appreciate it or would it be taken for granted??? Sigmund Freud could have a field day with that question...

[Nude in the North]

Sorry Kenny,

Stu feels that nudists have no reason to feel persecuted.
You simply read what he wrote, wrong.

He feels that we need to Hide our nudity behind fences or walls, so it would be impossible for anyone to see us.
He feels any nudist that fails to hide his nudity from the general public deserves the full rath of the law. (even if no real law was broken)

Should someone peek through a crack in your fence and see you nude, it's your fault for having a crack in your fence.

Steve

[greensunshine]

Stuie,

I was almost thinking that you had opened your eyes for a moment and then I read Nude's posting, and realized I had once again been tricked again [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif[/img]

Oh, maybe one day you will become one of us [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] but for now, all some of us can do for you is continue to pray (Greensunshine kneals as she prays with all her might that this miracle comes true) that you will one day see the light and shed all your clothes in celebration of admitting we are a great bunch of folks and your body too is a great work of art [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

Greensunshine in the Pacific NW [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Female, Mormon and Proud of Both [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Steve,

"we need to Hide our nudity behind fences or walls, so it would be impossible for anyone to see us."

I do. And, after all, you as a considerate naturist wouldn't want to shock and offend people, would you?

"any nudist that fails to hide his nudity from the general public deserves the full rath of the law".

I have never said that. If someone is improperly nude in public then they should be dealt with appropriately. Some times a a request to cover up is all that is needed, other times a word of warning, but sometimes an arrest and prosecution is called for.

"Should someone peek through a crack in your fence and see you nude, it's your fault for having a crack in your fence."

If there are cracks in the fence the fault lies with the owner of the fence. If someone intentionally looks through it they have only themselves to blame.

greensunshine

How have I tricked you? I never cease to be amazed at how people here imagine that I'm anti-nudist. I can't think of what more I can say to convince you that I'm PRO-nudist. The ONLY thing I'm against is inappropriate PUBLIC nudity - nothing else. Some naturists agree with me about that and I thought you were one of them [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] .

"you will one day see the light and shed all your clothes in celebration of admitting we are a great bunch of folks and your body too is a great work of art"

I already know that there is a great bunch of people here - that's the main reason I keep posting. I know my body is a work of art - I just think it looks better clothed.

Stu

[aunaturelone]

It doesn't qualify as a superstition unless there is something of the supernatural about it.

In a nutshell, a superstition is a belief in the paranormal that can be proven false whereas religion cannot be proven either way. Many religious beliefs are rendered into superstitions when examined scientifically.

From The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition:

quote:

---

1. An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
2.
1. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
2. A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.
3. Idolatry.

---

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, ? 1996, 1998:

quote:

---

1. An excessive reverence for, or fear of, that which is unknown or mysterious.

2. An ignorant or irrational worship of the Supreme Deity; excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites not commanded, or of points of minor importance; also, a rite or practice proceeding from excess of sculptures in religion.

And the truth With superstitions and traditions taint. --Milton.

3. The worship of a false god or gods; false religion; religious veneration for objects.

[The accusers] had certain questions against him of their own superstition. --Acts xxv. 19.

4. Belief in the direct agency of superior powers in certain extraordinary or singular events, or in magic, omens, prognostics, or the like.

5. Excessive nicety; scrupulous exactness.

---

If an irrational belief is not of a paranormal nature, it is better catagorized as a prejudice or a neurosis.

[MikeJB]

The ONLY thing I'm against is inappropriate PUBLIC nudity - nothing else.
-------------------------------------------------

Hey Stu do you think there is such a thing as appropriate public nudity? Could nudity ever be found to be appropriate and decent in public? Do you think people could be convinced that it isnt a bad thing so thus they would have no reason to be shocked or offended? I mean I know thats the way it is now, but dont you think that could change or that it should change in any way? Im open for suggestions. Also about that fence thing, if someone *a peeping tom type* looked over someone's fence *assuming they had the proper privacy fence* and saw someone nude, would it be the nude person's fault for being nude or would it be the person's fault for looking over the fence? ive heard of on here of people getting arrested for that sort of thing just because someone did this and was offended by the person's nudity and im just wondering that if the person had the proper privacy precautions in place, wouldnt they be within the law and wouldnt it be wrong to arrest them just because someone invaded their privacy?

[MikeJB]

-------------------------------------------------
Stu feels that nudists have no reason to feel persecuted.
-------------------------------------------------

We do though, most of us want to enjoy our nudity in peace and comfort and way too many people look down on us, critcise us and treat us like petty criminals. I mean areint there enough criminals in this world without adding us to the list? Besides nudity isnt inherently a crime, whereas these other things are and there isnt anything really bad about simple nudity while these others things that people do are bad.

-----------------------------------------------
He feels that we need to Hide our nudity behind fences or walls, so it would be impossible for anyone to see us.
-----------------------------------------------

Yeah basically so we dont run the risk of him seeing us nude. I dont get his logic, if he thinks nudity isnt bad then why does the sight of it bother him? Why would something that he admits is good bother him in such a way. He has no real reason to feel that way besides maybe his experiences earlier in life but coming here and seeing all the doctors and psych people he did, youd think that wouldve helped him get over his paranoia.


------------------------------------------------
He feels any nudist that fails to hide his nudity from the general public deserves the full rath of the law. (even if no real law was broken)
------------------------------------------------

I think alot of so called prudes take our nudity way out of context and get very extreme about it. I mean its one thing to say its bad or illegal but when people say such vicious comments about it and go to great lengths to cause harm to our lifestyle I mean theres gotta be a point where you say enough is enough. We dont criticise him or those other prudes that harshly and he doesnt even deserve such treatment, I could go as far as saying that rocket guy doesnt even deserve such treatment, I mean he has issues but thats something totally different.

------------------------------------------------
Should someone peek through a crack in your fence and see you nude, it's your fault for having a crack in your fence.
------------------------------------------------

Yeah but everyone has cracks in their fences, even those of us who would take care of such fences, so its hard not to have a hole someone can peek in but unless its an unsually large hole, you usually have to work hard just to peek through it and thus you could give probable cause that this person intended to invade your privacy and see you nude, so they are at fault. I would say 90% of such cases would be the peeping toms fault, not the nudist. I think its a dumb thing to worry about and a very foolish thing to call the cops for.

[Guest]

We are expected to be absolutely sure that no one--particlarly children--can see us when we're nude. If they can then it's OUR fault--just as it was mine when someone looked in my uncovered window and saw me nude and called the police. It apparently doesn't matter HOW they see--just that they can.

I for one will NEVER understand people's aversion to the human body, and some, like Stu, go to serious extremes with their dislike of something so basic and normal as a human body. Their aversion to the human body doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with it though. They're the ones with a problem. While we have accepted our bodies and those of others as beautiful and NOT vile or obscene, many others have not. They find it "necessary" to hide their bodies from others and even themselves sometimes.

[Bob S.]

"As an outsider coming here I get the impression that many nudists unnecessarily feel persecuted either by textiles or by the authorities."

Please stu, come over here and you will realize just how we are made to feel persecuted. In Michigan, there was the reverend who harassed people going to the nude beach. In Vermont, the people voted to close down a beach that had been used for generations as nude use (it was later overturned by another ballot initiative). During last summer, a Florida representative tried to close down the nudist teen summer camps, and here in Virginia, there is a bill dealing with that as well (read "Anti-Nudism Alert: Virginia" in the Legal section). We have to watch what we take to the photo developers lest we have naked pictures of our children.

Is any of this feelings out of nowhere? We nearly have to justify our rights to exist every day.

"If someone intentionally looks through it they have only themselves to blame."

I'm curious stu, would you suggest prosecuting someone for being naked in theri backyard with a small crack in the fence and the neighbors uising that to see them?

Bob S.

[Naturist Mark]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob S.:
[qb]In Michigan, there was the reverend who harassed people going to the nude beach. [/qb]

---

That was Rev. Ralph Ovadal in Wisconsin.

-Mark

[Duneman]

"As an outsider coming here I get the impression that many nudists unnecessarily feel persecuted either by textiles or by the authorities."

Stu.... I had to make a comment on your above statement.

The "persection" felt by many nudists, is probably varied from country to country, but I can tell you about one particular unofficial c/o beach in Southern Ontario in Canada.

This particular beach is about 3 miles long, with the last mile totally unoccupied. This is the section that about 30 naturists (nudists) regular use. Couples, Singles, Families... there is at least 1/2 mile between the naturist beach & the textile beach.

I was there with my Wife one day last year, there were two other single men, and a young couple with their two children... probably 2 & 3 yrs old.

We saw two police officers (in flak jackets & armed!?) walking quickly down the beach towards us. (We get this from time to time!)

All of us put on our swim suits, including the couple with the kids. But they let the kids carry on skinny dipping.

The police then threatened this couple, that if they didn't put swin suits on the kids, they would charge them with child abuse, and report them to the "Childrens Aid."

The couple later lodged a complaint against the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) but of course nothing came of it.

We are continually being harrassed by the some of the local Park Rangers... and every year.... visiting "textiles" who walk miles out of their way to check us out, are also complaining. So please don't tell "many of us" that we are unnecessarily concerned about being persecuted by textiles or authorities.

[Kari P]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Duneman:
The police then threatened this couple, that if they didn't put swin suits on the kids, they would charge them with child abuse, and report them to the "Childrens Aid."

---

And they were two to three years old! Can it be child abuse if they are allowed to play naked? Is there any law or regulation that *allows* at least the tiniest children to be naked on a beach?