skinny-dippers at Spence Hot Springs NM getting arrested?

[Tenchi]

http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/busi...ss_jdcol.shtml

Darn it! This makes me angry. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] I made a nudist friend. We were going to go up to the hot springs in the Jemez Mountains, and now I read an article about a Puritanical sheriff arresting people. Why doesn't the sheriff go after real threats like murdurers, pedophiles, drunk drivers, and drug dealers?

[Tenchi]

http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/busi...ss_jdcol.shtml

Darn it! This makes me angry. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] I made a nudist friend. We were going to go up to the hot springs in the Jemez Mountains, and now I read an article about a Puritanical sheriff arresting people. Why doesn't the sheriff go after real threats like murdurers, pedophiles, drunk drivers, and drug dealers?

[Tenchi]

http://alibi.com/alibi/2003-07-24/news_section.html

It's the second article to the last.

Hmmm. I hate to say this, but this shows another side to the coin. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] If people are doing horrible things up there, no wonder the police feel the need to enforce clothing up there? I wish those few people wouldn't ruin things for us true nudists.

[Rex]

If there's trouble with dangerous drivers, do the police try to apprehend the bad drivers, or do they close the road?
If there's trouble in a bar, do they apprehend the troublemakers, or do they close the bar down?
But if there's trouble at a nudist spot, the easy way out is to imply that it's the fault of the nudists, and close the area to nudists.
This is exactly why nudists sometimes hesitate to officially report unacceptable behavoir.[Discussed elsewhere in this forum].
I suggest it would not be difficult to set up a situation where someone gets harassed by an undesirable, then the police move in and make a public example of the offender and then the others would get the message.
I would imagine that nudists would co-operate with the police on this, I know I certainly would.

[Tenchi]

Well I'll be darned Rex. You are exactly right. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Maybe I should call the sheriff and tell him my thoughts and opinions on this, civilly of course. Errrr............ did I spell civilly right? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

[Ben_m]

Well, Tenchi, while upsetting I fear this is pretty common. I think the legal and social atmosphere here in this country are a big part of what warps people's perceptions and prevents them from seeing a human body as merely that. I believe that in a very real way, it is actually a big part of the cause of the problem to begin with and causes us to spiral into a pit from which it is very difficult, or often perhaps even impossible, to return.

It seems inevitable, that, because of the legal climate we, (as naturists), find locations that law enforcement is likely to ignore in order to enjoy ourselves naturally, just as we were created. It also seems inevitable that as soon as word gets out about these locations, those who enjoy nudity for other, more sordid, reasons are soon to follow. Then, those who's interests were sincere and genuine are faced with the problem of reporting the abuse, almost certainly resulting in the inability to use the location any longer, or basically tolerating it, to one extent or another until the complaints reach a point were law enforcement is no longer willing to ignore the area.

Then, in typical, myopic fashion, law enforcement swoops in, assesses the problem, declares the nudity to have caused the entire thing and rants and raves, beating everybody up in the wake and strong arming it all trying to keep everybody clothed. The real problems while perhaps moving to different locations, go merrily on, anyway, still undetected, and uncontrolled. The public thinks they've done yet another noble thing by keeping people dressed and thereby curtailing these problems, and likely even reinforcing the (mis)belief that nudity is the root of these issues. And, yet, in reality all that happens is that we as naturists have even more freedom taken away from us, because nobody seems to even want to address the real issues, nor find good ways to address them. I'm even aware of locker rooms with actual enforced time limits on how long a person can be undressed - why? - because of homosexual activity in the locker room. Once again, the perception of "control" was established through clothing EVERYONE, instead of taking care of the real issue.

How long will we continue to spiral into this pit? How long will we refuse to see the human body as merely that, and start to police the real issues (of exhibitionism, rape, public sex, etc.)? When and how does this cycle stop? Why can't supposed enlightened people see that by clamping down on mere nudity more and more, they are in a very real way, causing the problems, not solving them? What does it take to create this awareness?

o.k., I've joined you and ranted and lamented enough now, I suppose, Tenchi. Thanks for letting me "vent", I suppose,

Ben.

[Trailscout]

Don't most sheriffs have to run for public office? What if people don't vote for this guy next time around! What if potential nudist tourists write letters to the county government or the local tourism office and tell them why they aren't going to visit that county and spend their dollars in local hotels and restaurants?

A few miles from my house is a nature trail that a lot of joggers go to. It was also a hangout for bisexual men looking for anonymous sex. They were harassing joggers. The police did not close the trail to joggers! They arrested the men who harassed the joggers. Pretty soon, the bisexuals found somewhere else to go and the joggers had their nature trail back. Why can't Spence and Hippie Hollow be like that?

[MikeJB]

Why not try suggesting that the sherriff arrests people who are actually causing a crime *i.e exhibitionism or sexual activities* instead of just mere nudity and explain that the people who are nude are just those who want to have fun and enjoy themselves and that just by being nude they are not causing the problems that happen there.

[Bob S.]

"Why not try suggesting that the sherriff arrests people who are actually causing a crime *i.e exhibitionism or sexual activities* instead of just mere nudity..."

Because that would be the most logical step to take, Mike. Come on, stop dragging logic and common sense into this.

Why, it seems that keeping the clothes on people will stop the indecency. If so, the people who think that should wake up. Clothes do not cover the minds of pervs.

Bob S.

[AussieBeachBoy]

This is a shame. I have been to Spence's Hot Springs - in fact some of the local tourist literature identifies it as a 'clothing optional' swimming spot. It is really mad if the local tourism bureau is promoting it as a clothing optional venue whilst the sherriff is busy arresting people.

[MikeJB]

Because that would be the most logical step to take, Mike. Come on, stop dragging logic and common sense into this.

Why, it seems that keeping the clothes on people will stop the indecency. If so, the people who think that should wake up. Clothes do not cover the minds of pervs.

Bob S.
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im confused by what you just said. At first you seemed to be against me and then you seemed to be saying what I said. I just thought that the sheriff should stop arresting people just because they are nude and arrest those who are actually commiting some sort of crime, clothed or not. Im sorry if I confused you or used too much logic or common sense. What else am I supposed to use??????

[Trailscout]

Mike,

I am not trying to put words in Bob's mouth, but what I got from his posting was that you shouldn't be surprized that people will do things that make no sense whatsoever.

For a lot of us, the older we get, the more opinionated and prejudiced we get.

You know the old saying, "Don't confuse me with the facts! I've got my mind made up!!!" [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[MikeJB]

This is a shame. I have been to Spence's Hot Springs - in fact some of the local tourist literature identifies it as a 'clothing optional' swimming spot. It is really mad if the local tourism bureau is promoting it as a clothing optional venue whilst the sherriff is busy arresting people.
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Maybe you oughta show the sherrif the tourist literature and identify that this is a clothing optional area and that youre well within your rights to be nude there because im sure the tourism office wouldnt say such things if it wasnt legal. I think that should be enough proof to state that your actions are well within the law. Maybe if some people know when this guy does his regular rounds over there, maybe people could go nude when he or his deputies areint there, cuz im sure there isnt a police man around there 24/7. Unless these guys make surprise visits if people would just be nude when they areint there then this could be another option and if you get caught then thats when you could whip out the ole travel brochure.

[Bob S.]

Mike, it would have been better with the smiley sticking his tongue out, but it didn't work! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] I use sarcasm a lot. Next time I cannot get the smiley to work, I'll make a little comment about the sarcasm.

Thanks Trail. Those words you put in my mouth were acceptable. Could have used a bit more garlic, but they tasted good otherwise. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

Bob S.

[MikeJB]

okay I really dont get what you just said about the smiley face thing and im not sure weither you thought my post was good, bad or indifferent, so could you please clarify for me. I know it had something to do with your sarcasm but I dont know what that really if anything had to do with what I just said?