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  • Opinion on going nude anywhere

    Here is a statement by sex therapist Dr. Marty Klein (www.SexEd.org) written for Going Natural, the quarterly magazine of the Federation of Canadian Naturists, and published in its Winter 2002-03 issue.

    "I'm in favour of people having the option of going nude virtually anywhere they want, certainly in any private setting. I am repulsed by the political persecution that nudists/naturists suffer at the hands of people who are frightened of sex or the human body.

    "In particular, I am against the assumption that everyone has the right not to see others' nude bodies. Many white people used to feel that they had the right not to see blacks on the street. Many people still feel they have the right not to see people of the same sex kiss or even hold hands. All of these ideas are oppressive and anti-democcratic, the 'tyranny of the majority'.

    "It is wrong that people who want to be nude have to cower in special areas so as not to "offend" others. Criminalizing nudity is a cultural sickness."

    Gary

  • #2
    Here is a statement by sex therapist Dr. Marty Klein (www.SexEd.org) written for Going Natural, the quarterly magazine of the Federation of Canadian Naturists, and published in its Winter 2002-03 issue.

    "I'm in favour of people having the option of going nude virtually anywhere they want, certainly in any private setting. I am repulsed by the political persecution that nudists/naturists suffer at the hands of people who are frightened of sex or the human body.

    "In particular, I am against the assumption that everyone has the right not to see others' nude bodies. Many white people used to feel that they had the right not to see blacks on the street. Many people still feel they have the right not to see people of the same sex kiss or even hold hands. All of these ideas are oppressive and anti-democcratic, the 'tyranny of the majority'.

    "It is wrong that people who want to be nude have to cower in special areas so as not to "offend" others. Criminalizing nudity is a cultural sickness."

    Gary

    Comment


    • #3
      Right on Gary;
      I agree with your post 100% it is a shame that we are not allowed to be nude anywhere we so desire. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

      Comment


      • #4
        So what's your point Gary?

        You're surely not suggesting are you that we "push the envelope" even further to help people overcome their tyrannical impulses? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

        Maybe Dr Klein was just asked the wrong question. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

        Rik

        Comment


        • #5
          Though I agree that it would "be nice" to be nude whenever I wanted, wherever I wanted, the reality is that if my objective is to move public opinion towards nudity as an acceptable alternative to being clothed I think a less agressive strategy would prove more effective. In our circle of friends and acquaintances nudity already seems to be more acceptable than it was ten years ago. I think people try things out for themselves and see other "normal" people enjoying social nudity and begin to see that there isn't anything more wrong about being nude than being clothed.
          I'm not sure of the context or intent of the original post. Just a thought....

          Comment


          • #6
            quote:
            Originally posted by Rik:
            [qb]So what's your point Gary?

            You're surely not suggesting are you that we "push the envelope" even further to help people overcome their tyrannical impulses? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

            Maybe Dr Klein was just asked the wrong question. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

            Rik[/qb]
            I posted this because it supports some principles that have been espoused (!) here before.

            Gary

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree that it would be great if I could be nude anywhere and whenever I want to, but I don't think it is a good idea to do something that you know would be offensive to nearly everyone around you. It might cause negative reactions, perhaps even violence. This is not our goal as nudists and naturists. Our goal is to try to be free and to be happy with ourselves and each other. Perhaps a more effective method is merely to bring up this topic in casual conversations with people and guage whether or not they would like to at least try public nudity one time, just to see for themselves what it is all about. Then if they just can't live that life style, that's ok. We can not, nor should we try to, force people to live the lifestyle we have chosen.

              I know the society is being anti-democratic, but what can we do about it without inciting riots or lynchings or whatever? We can talk about it. Try to use reason and friendship to sway the public.

              I was wondering if there would be any legal repurcusions to my being nude in my own back yard. What would happen if I did go nude in my back yard? I would only do it at night when everyone else is asleep, at least at first, but there is still the posibility of someone seeing me who does not want to see me. I don't want to be punished for being nude in my own back yard.

              I live in Mesa, Arizona, in the United States of America. Not a totaly repressed place to be, but not as free as I would like either. hmm. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

              Just my two cents worth. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
              Aaron.

              Comment


              • #8
                I, too, agree with the good doctor. However, I have some points to question concerning Klepta's statement.

                "It might cause negative reactions, perhaps even violence...I know the society is being anti-democratic, but what can we do about it without inciting riots or lynchings or whatever?"

                Yes, if we went naked in public, it may cause negatice reactions, but violence? If people started to react violently to our being naked in public, then that would be their fault, not ours. If you fear others' reaction before doing something, then you are going to lead a sheltered life. And if they start resorting to violence, then they would just push our cause into a greater acceptance seeing as how we would then become victims.

                And society isn't being anti-democratic. Right now, the general public is not comfortable enough to accept public nudity, so the will of the people is being heard.

                "We can talk about it. Try to use reason and friendship to sway the public."

                And that is the one approach that I have been advocating over all others. I may have argued for the right to be naked in public, but realistically, that will only happen either if laws are proven unconstitutional (or whatever they call it in the UK) or when the will of the people is swayed to our school of thought. And thaty will take education and persuasion, befriending our "enemies," fighting laws, and getting more people to visit the nudist venues.

                "I was wondering if there would be any legal repurcusions to my being nude in my own back yard. What would happen if I did go nude in my back yard?"

                It would depend on your neighbors' proximity to your house, the line of sight (and other visual factors), and their attitudes. If you really wanted to go naked out in your yard and you had some reservations concerning a neighbor, you could always talk with him. Otherwise, you would be just hoping that he would not see you or doesn't mind, which could lead to a call to the police.

                Bob S.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I recognize a real disjunction in my own life at this point.

                  Militantly pushing the envelope isn't in my nature. I've never been part of a demonstration for anything, and may never be. Yet I can't think of any major social change that ever started in the US without the push of militant reformers who forced the issue onto the public consciousness.

                  We just observed the holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. For many years African Americans tried the strategy of not offending anyone in hopes that the Anglo majority would come to grant them their rights. What they got from that strategy was seats in the back of the bus and an increase in lynchings. It was only when the non-violent demonstrations forced the issue on to the front page news that others began to say, "It's not right that Americans should be treated this way; they're only asking for things that the rest of us take for granted."

                  So I do agree with the original statement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Gary,

                    Your quote was quite interesting but is only the opinion of one person and opinions are like a**holes - everybody's got one.

                    Doesn't prove a thing.

                    Max

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Max, don't be such a STU. Gary simply posted a quote someone (who might be taken as knowledgable in the human social condition) made to get a discussion going. It does not seem that Gary's topic starter was posted to "prove" anything.

                      Luvnaturism, your analogy relating Dr. King's approach to how many believe nudism should be promoted is quite thought provoking. Thanks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree totally with Dr. Klein. And I fully support his right to speak his mind. It's only by getting ideas in the marketplace that we give them a thorough vetting to decide which we should adopt. Even if we reject an idea today, that doesn't mean our descendents won't have the good common sense to accept it tomorrow.

                        People, keep something firmly in mind. Dr. Klein was not advocating breaking any law, nor was he taking an especially aggressive stance. He was, however, apparently speaking in his professional capacity as one qualified to judge mental health. And in that capacity, he said that society is currently ill. He did not say that we should all go forcing nudity on everyone we know (or don't know). He does seem to be advocating that nudists/naturists become more high-profile in a good way.

                        In my opinion that will involve extreme vigilance to be sure that the conservatives who've hijacked our governments don't take control of the debate, but that's another thread.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:
                          Originally posted by Vin:
                          [qb]He does seem to be advocating that nudists/naturists become more high-profile in a good way.[/qb]
                          I don't think the good doctor is advocating anything but merely making a statement of his professional view of nudity and its impact on others.

                          He makes some pretty bold statements such as "I'm in favour of people having the option of going nude virtually anywhere they want"; "I am repulsed by the political persecution .. by people who are frightened of sex or the human body."; and "I am against the assumption that everyone has the right not to see others' nude bodies".

                          If we truly believe that these are fundamentally right then surely it follows that we should fight for the right to be nude anywhere in public rather than the right to have more officially designated (and therefore controlled by non-nudists) venues, for nothing Dr Klein says suggests he is in favour of more nude beaches.

                          Rik

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            quote:
                            Originally posted by Rik:
                            [qb]I don't think the good doctor is advocating anything but merely making a statement of his professional view of nudity and its impact on others.[/qb]
                            I stand corrected, insofar as there is no explicit call to action. But using phrases like "I am repulsed by the political persecution...," "All of these ideas are oppressive and anti-democcratic...," and "Criminalizing nudity is a cultural sickness" seem an implicit call to action to change the status quo. A required aspect of that will be a change in public perception of nudists and nudism.

                            And I quite agree that Dr. Klein is not advocating more nude beaches or other controlled areas.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dnat 928,

                              Well I have my opinions and you have yours, and I was merely stating mine in relation to the quote Gary posted. Dr Klein has his opinions too, but I thought his statement of nudists having to 'cower' in designated areas was a bit over the top - thus I chose to have a bit of a go at him while everyone else coos and aahhs and says how much they agree with what he said. Rather boring don't you think?

                              Sorry if you think I'm a bit of a STU but in my book that's a compliment!! With 90% of people here ready to agree 100% with the quote, those of us that challenge such thinking and voice our opinions would, I hope, be welcome here. Otherwise what is a 'discussion' board for if it's just preaching to the converted????

                              Max

                              Max, don't be such a STU. Gary simply posted a quote someone (who might be taken as knowledgable in the human social condition) made to get a discussion going. It does not seem that Gary's topic starter was posted to "prove" anything.

                              Comment

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