NH legislators fight back at "Free the Nipple", want to criminalize topfreedom.

[usuallylurk]

Well - remember when the guy ran nude in Vermont, through streets, and private property, and was arrested, and even tried to attend court nude? And some of you folks thought he was a "pioneer" of some type? And I advised - such behavior might result in a legislative backlash.

Over in New Hampshire, I guess a few state reps got irritated. Y'see, it was learned that it's NOT illegal for women to go topless on state property - like, at Hampton Beach State Park. Although, a woman was ticketed on town property in Gilford, but that ticketing may be challenged on the grounds that the state never granted the town the right to ban topfreedom.

Those state reps have decided to try to put an end to it all - and just pass a statewide law barring women from going topfree in public. I never suspected New Hampshire to go that route... oh well..

http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/19952400-95/bill-seeks-to-criminalize-female-toplessness-in-nh

[natureboy1776]

The trial for the two ticketed is happening right now. It seems to be going in their favor. Also take a look at most of the comments to the article posted. Very supportive. So how is any of this a bad thing? These women are fighting for their equality and winning over supporter across the country. There have been a few missteps along the way but I see a lot of positive movement. I'd suggest anyone here located near NH consider joining their FB group and help out. I have. By the way the bill noted above was started before the Hampton beach protest. It was threatened at the very early planning stages last spring. And has very little support.

[usuallylurk]

The trial for the two ticketed is happening right now. It seems to be going in their favor.

"Going in their favor" = speculation that they MIGHT get the case tossed out. The fact that their ticket hasn't been dropped indicates that things AREN'T going that way. Assuming that "they're winning! They're WINNING!" is just pep rally talk.

Also take a look at most of the comments to the article posted. Very supportive. So how is any of this a bad thing?

Because women currently have the freedom to go top-free on New Hampshire beaches and in state parks. And that freedom is in jeopardy. That's how it's a bad thing. When the "pioneer" was arrested in Vermont - some felt that it was time for the state to take action.

These women are fighting for their equality and winning over supporter across the country. There have been a few missteps along the way but I see a lot of positive movement. I'd suggest anyone here located near NH consider joining their FB group and help out. I have. By the way the bill noted above was started before the Hampton beach protest. It was threatened at the very early planning stages last spring. And has very little support.

I believe it was just filed and will be considered in the upcoming (2016) session, to take effect in 2017 should it pass.

Most notably in the article =

"One of the bill’s sponsors, Rep. Brian Gallagher of Sanbornton,told the Laconia Daily Sun that municipal-level laws prohibiting toplessness may not stand legally without a state-level law because cities and towns have only the authority granted to them by state law.

So, the topfree-opponents view the lack of a state law as a loophole to be closed. That's how it's a bad thing, too.

If one considers "any publicity is good publicity" , yeah, then, maybe some will view this as "good". Like the AANR Youth Camp debacle, I don't view this as a "good thing".

[Naturist Mark]

Yep. It is best to preserve our freedoms by never using them. Of course history says the opposite. Every time freedom has been expanded it was because people forced the issue, not because they remained timid and cautious. Can anyone name one time that freedom was expanded by being too timid to upset the bigots? Sure there have been backlashes, but they have proven to be temporary when people stuck to their principles.

Now don't get me wrong, there are often idiots who get in the way and do things wrong. But in the long run the idiots don't hurt as bad as it may seem at first if thoughtful people point out the obvious and turn it around rather than being Timid Timmies. Just point out that yes, the "Pioneer" was an idiot who was more interested in shocking people than expanding freedom, but did you notice that no one was actually injured? Did you notice that there was more laughter than butt-hurt feelings? Did you notice that "the children" didn't become traumatized, catatonic or schizophrenic after seeing the idiot? We can't stop the idiots, they are not ours to control, but we can use what happens to start a dialog, not end it. I'm not saying that this is a guaranteed strategy, but every time freedom has been expanded, this is a part of how it happened.

Concerning the proposed law in New Hampshire to outlaw female topfreedom.If passed it would violate New Hampshire's Constitution which includes an equal rights provision (New Hampshire Constitution, Part First, Article 2), so unless they also outlaw male topfreedom, it would be invalid. Or they could ask the voters to amend their State Constitution to abolish equal rights. Good luck on that.

[natureboy1776]

I believe it was just filed and will be considered in the upcoming (2016) session, to take effect in 2017 should it pass.

True, but the few State reps that support this have been talking about it since last spring when it was first pointed out that topfreedom was NOT illegal.

So, the topfree-opponents view the lack of a state law as a loophole to be closed. That's how it's a bad thing, too.

Yes, "Equal Rights" is a "loophole" that many conservatives in NH would like to close. We need to keep fighting and speak up so that does not happen. Topfreedom under "#FreeTheNipple" has become the symbolic figure head for equal-rights for women, nationwide. UL you are often telling people to get involved so step up- write a letter to the State Reps telling them not to support this bill. Everyone else, please write too. You can email them all at [email protected] or find individual emails at http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hous...bersemail.aspx

PS. If you don't know what to say there is a base letter to get you started on the FreeTheNippleNH FB group. I can post it here to if anyone wants it.

[jasenj]

Relevant to this topic:
Dear New Hampshire Representatives:
My name is Chelsea Covington and I am writing to offer some thoughts on Representative Brian Gallagher’s House Bill 1525, seeking to amend the state’s indecent exposure statute to forbid the exposure of female breasts but not male breasts. New Hampshire law currently treats female and male breast exposure equally.
As you probably know by now, a social movement to normalize female bare-chestedness is gaining traction across the country. Representative Gallagher’s bill is a reaction to a peaceful action that occurred in Laconia, which has one of the few local ordinances barring female bare-chestedness in New Hampshire.
The first two articles in the New Hampshire Constitution clearly protect equality. Article 2, Natural Rights, reads, “Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by this state on account of race, creed, color, sex or national origin.”
You have each sworn an oath to protect this Constitution.

...

[jasenj]

Yep. It is best to preserve our freedoms by never using them.

Was there ever a freedom in this case? Just because there is no law against something does not mean it is intended to be legal/allowed. It may not be explicitly prohibited, but that doesn't mean the State ever expected people to do it. People walking around nude, and women going around with their torsos bared may generally be assumed to be socially unacceptable; taboo - whether there is a law or not. You don't pass laws forbidding things people don't do. Now some crazy people are actually daring to do this despicable thing and the law needs to catch up.

By having a trial, the women accomplish the same thing that has been done in New York and a few other places. The Court explicitly declares that this behavior is permissible under the law. If it goes to the State Supreme Court, they may even get a ruling that it is constitutional - can't be prohibited with a simple law. This sort of thing happens quite frequently; but usually it is businesses involved with millions of dollars in profit at stake. Cases like this are why the ACLU exists, IMHO (although they may not go anywhere near this case).

The legislature could pass a law prohibiting women going bare chested; then someone would have to go to court based on the law and get it overturned. (Is my limited understanding of the legal system. NH may be different.)

[usuallylurk]

Was there ever a freedom in this case?

Yes, there was (and for the time being - still is) - it wasn't until this was turned into a publicity stunt - that this legislation was filed.
The good news is, the NH legislature may do a "Vermont" and opt to ignore it, let the bill die in committee.

By having a trial, the women accomplish the same thing that has been done in New York and a few other places. The Court explicitly declares that this behavior is permissible under the law. If it goes to the State Supreme Court, they may even get a ruling that it is constitutional - can't be prohibited with a simple law.

And they may rule differently in New Hampshire than they did in New York. Different state, different jurisdiction, different laws, different state constitution, different area.

This sort of thing happens quite frequently; but usually it is businesses involved with millions of dollars in profit at stake. Cases like this are why the ACLU exists, IMHO (although they may not go anywhere near this case).

Some will claim that Hampton Beach will lose business over this if this isn't passed. (I disagree, I don't think anyone really cares).
Forget about the ACLU. They won't come to the rescue of nudists. I don't think they EVER have.

The legislature could pass a law prohibiting women going bare chested; then someone would have to go to court based on the law and get it overturned. (Is my limited understanding of the legal system. NH may be different.)

And even if it gets overturned - it is still a major fight and before it's overturned - even if it is - topfreedom will still be illegal - should this bill pass and the Governor sign it into law - it's illegal until it's turned over.

Better to just exercise your rights - than make a media stunt out of it. If women did exercise their rights - just go to Hampton, or Seabrook, or Wallis Sands, etc., and doff their tops without making a big deal out of it, that would have a better shot at acceptance than to do a "Free the Nipple" campaign.

In fact, since the bill says the prohibition won't take place until 2017, regardless of how the legislature feels - do it this summer... but not as a group or orchestrated demonstration - just do it. And don't break the law when you do.

My humble opinion.

[jasenj]

Huffington Post article on the subject.

A comment from the sponsor of the bill:
"If it's a woman's natural inclination to pull her nipple out in public and you support that," Moore wrote, "than you should have no problem with a mans inclantion [sic] to stare at it and grab it. After all... It's ALL relative and natural, right?"

Wow.

[usuallylurk]

Well, if the proponents of this bill make jackasses out of themselves, or make outlandish statements, that's good news, as it will lead to the bill's defeat.

[natureboy1776]

In fact, since the bill says the prohibition won't take place until 2017, regardless of how the legislature feels - do it this summer... but not as a group or orchestrated demonstration - just do it. And don't break the law when you do..

'Lurk, we intend to. FTN-NH is planning many outdoor public adventures next summer most without fanfare or prior publicity. Although expect a few "Stunts" as you put it, for awareness and in protest of this bill.
Also, Don't "forget the ACLU". They have shown interest in a few topfreedom cases across the country. They see it as a women's rights/equality issue not a nudist issue. There is NO nudity involved. (until the bill is passed.)

[usuallylurk]

Well, I wish you luck - my point is, if women just used their top-free rights - at the state parks - and didn't make a spectacle/publicity stunt out of it, there might be more progress.

I used the AANR Youth Camp debacle - AANR officials appeared to be exploiting the publicity from their youth camp cancellation/move than fighting the issue. They did get their chance the next year - when the Virginia assembly in the next year moved to outlaw ALL family nudism in the state. That cost a pretty penny to fight off in the back room.

Over in Keene, there is a group who call themselves the "Free Staters" - and they had a woman go topless in the streets (where it is NOT legal) -- this group makes a point of taunting police and officials over nearly ANYTHING - that might not be the place.

Over in Maine, where women have enjoyed "topfreedom" for years -- there was a march, you can find it on YouTube and other places -- little fanfare, no opposition, and the only complainers were the participants who whined that "men were LOOKING at us!" Well, what the hell did they expect?

[natureboy1776]

NH has never had a law banning bare-chestedness for women. Very few people realized it. Thanks to the FTN event in August there is now nearly a thousand women planning to go topfree next summer across the state. The occasional stunt is necessary to raise awareness. The tipping point is coming soon folks.

[usuallylurk]

NH has never had a law banning bare-chestedness for women. Very few people realized it. Thanks to the FTN event in August there is now nearly a thousand women planning to go topfree next summer across the state. The occasional stunt is necessary to raise awareness. The tipping point is coming soon folks.

Let's hope the bill gets killed.

If you live in New Hampshire - you can contact your rep(s) and tell him/her/them that you don't want to see this passed into law.

Again, exercise LEGAL rights (such as within the State Park system) but not illegal activity (example = Main Street in Keene)

A note of caution if you live OUTSIDE of the state - New Hampshire is rather insular when it comes to public policy.

A letter from someone outside the state could very well have a negative backlash ("the Seabrook Syndrome" -- outside groups tried to fight the construction of the Seabrook nuclear plant while the residents favored it by a wide margin)... and forget about online petitions or polls. The reps see through those, for what they are.

[natureboy1776]

Again, exercise LEGAL rights (such as within the State Park system) but not illegal activity (example = Main Street in Keene)

To clarify, we are NOT talking about nudity only "female" topfreedom. NH state law does not prohibit nipples in any way. A few towns do, but those are not likely to stand up in court. It IS legal to be top free in town across NH (except Laconia and that will soon change).

I just verified with the Keene published bylaws and there is not one mention of decency or dress so it inherits from state law. Nothing about nipples.