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  • the 'other' September 11th...

    September 11th, 1857, was the 'last' day of the Mountain Meadows Massacre;
    A Horrible incident which occurred in SW Utah territory, wherein about 110 men, women, & children were Murdered 'IN COLD BLOOD' by members of the Iron County Militia, which was a successor of the Nauvoo Legion. The leadership of the Iron County Militia was 1 to 1 with the local LDS stake. The victims were in a wagon train of people intending to move to California, they were well-to-do, and had a large herd of Prime cattle with them that they intended to sell in California. They had a wealth of wagons & carriages. They started their journey in Arkansas, not Missouri as was later said.
    this was at a time when tensions between the Mormons and 'Gentiles' was at a fever pitch; it was rumored (correct) that Pres. Buchanan had dispatched an army to take control of Utah away from Brigham Young. Someone later started a rumor that the victims had inflamed the Mormons by claiming that they (travelers) were the individuals responsible for the murder of Joseph Smith/Parley Pratt that they possessed with them the pistol that killed joseph, and brandished it as they passed through Mormon settlements.
    Various theories have sprung up as to Why. It has been theorized that the travelers (on a well-established road to California) inflamed the Mormons. It is established that BY issued an edict Not to trade with the emigrants-travelers; Will Bagley says that some saints were punished for violating this instruction.
    At the dedication of a monument at the site, GBH said: (paraphrase) 'We will never know what happened here' ... Well, HE might not know, but most of the others there did. You see, Denial & Obfuscation have been the LDS way of dealing with the MMM (and other negative-controversial happenings) ever since it happened.
    I find it amazing that this incident has been whitewashed from the history books; it was blamed on the local Indians, who were involved as aides to the Mormons, who had planned the event a few days prior to 9/11/1857. A LDS history book, used at church colleges, attempted to place the blame on the emigrants-travelers. Over the years, this incident has become the prototype for the way LDS leaders handle negative and/or controversial events-incidents.
    “Amazingly’, only one person was tried & executed for responsibility for the MMM, John Doyle Lee. Mormons were told that he was the only person responsible, which, of course, was nothing short of Preposterous; later examination of the victims revealed they had all been killed by small arms, at close range. Those down to the age of four were killed so there would be no survivors who could be reliable witnesses. About 15 infants were later returned to surviving relatives in Arkansas.
    Many people graduate from Utah public schools, LDS seminaries & colleges and NEVER hear of it, because of the lessons it gives us: When bad, violent plans are made against others, Someone should say NO.
    This, of course, is antithetical to the main message of Mormonism: 'Follow the prophet', defer to authority, don't ask questions, ‘stay in your place'.
    for more info: Mountain Meadows Massacre by Juanita Brooks.


    Long may her memory live in the lives of people who Love the Truth.


    Blood of the Prophets by Will Bagley
    http://www.mtn-meadows-assoc.com/
    Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre
    American Massacre: the Tragedy at Mountain Meadows by Sally Denton

  • #2
    September 11th, 1857, was the 'last' day of the Mountain Meadows Massacre;
    A Horrible incident which occurred in SW Utah territory, wherein about 110 men, women, & children were Murdered 'IN COLD BLOOD' by members of the Iron County Militia, which was a successor of the Nauvoo Legion. The leadership of the Iron County Militia was 1 to 1 with the local LDS stake. The victims were in a wagon train of people intending to move to California, they were well-to-do, and had a large herd of Prime cattle with them that they intended to sell in California. They had a wealth of wagons & carriages. They started their journey in Arkansas, not Missouri as was later said.
    this was at a time when tensions between the Mormons and 'Gentiles' was at a fever pitch; it was rumored (correct) that Pres. Buchanan had dispatched an army to take control of Utah away from Brigham Young. Someone later started a rumor that the victims had inflamed the Mormons by claiming that they (travelers) were the individuals responsible for the murder of Joseph Smith/Parley Pratt that they possessed with them the pistol that killed joseph, and brandished it as they passed through Mormon settlements.
    Various theories have sprung up as to Why. It has been theorized that the travelers (on a well-established road to California) inflamed the Mormons. It is established that BY issued an edict Not to trade with the emigrants-travelers; Will Bagley says that some saints were punished for violating this instruction.
    At the dedication of a monument at the site, GBH said: (paraphrase) 'We will never know what happened here' ... Well, HE might not know, but most of the others there did. You see, Denial & Obfuscation have been the LDS way of dealing with the MMM (and other negative-controversial happenings) ever since it happened.
    I find it amazing that this incident has been whitewashed from the history books; it was blamed on the local Indians, who were involved as aides to the Mormons, who had planned the event a few days prior to 9/11/1857. A LDS history book, used at church colleges, attempted to place the blame on the emigrants-travelers. Over the years, this incident has become the prototype for the way LDS leaders handle negative and/or controversial events-incidents.
    “Amazingly’, only one person was tried & executed for responsibility for the MMM, John Doyle Lee. Mormons were told that he was the only person responsible, which, of course, was nothing short of Preposterous; later examination of the victims revealed they had all been killed by small arms, at close range. Those down to the age of four were killed so there would be no survivors who could be reliable witnesses. About 15 infants were later returned to surviving relatives in Arkansas.
    Many people graduate from Utah public schools, LDS seminaries & colleges and NEVER hear of it, because of the lessons it gives us: When bad, violent plans are made against others, Someone should say NO.
    This, of course, is antithetical to the main message of Mormonism: 'Follow the prophet', defer to authority, don't ask questions, ‘stay in your place'.
    for more info: Mountain Meadows Massacre by Juanita Brooks.


    Long may her memory live in the lives of people who Love the Truth.


    Blood of the Prophets by Will Bagley
    http://www.mtn-meadows-assoc.com/
    Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre
    American Massacre: the Tragedy at Mountain Meadows by Sally Denton

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    • #3
      history does repeat itself!

      Comment


      • #4
        quote:
        This, of course, is antithetical to the main message of Mormonism: 'Follow the prophet', defer to authority, don't ask questions, ‘stay in your place'.
        Just this year I read a well-written review of three books on the subject. It was fascinating, and the biggest impression I got was the fallacy of individuals claiming to have received divine instructions from (whomever?) that they are henceforth endowed with the authority to control the beliefs and actions of all others. The most bizarre of their beliefs was that the sinners among them, and all deserters from the ranks, must be killed in order to redeem their souls. One of the theories was that the MMM victims were former Mormons who had deserted.

        Comment


        • #5
          I am a history buff and also enjoy the old west. This is a subject that is not talked about a lot (Mountain Meadows). Looks like the border between Kansas and Mo. in pre-civil war days wasn't the only place where people were murdered.

          Comment


          • #6
            The only thing that seperates man from animals is that man can entertain the concept of a supreme being.

            As the animals we are, we will keep on killing each other until the end of our existance as a species. As a species, we are ignorant. The truth and knowledge is all around us but we cannot see the forest for the trees. Well, maybe we intentionally wear blinders in life.

            Comment


            • #7
              quote:
              Originally posted by Rabid_Clam:
              The only thing that seperates man from animals is that man can entertain the concept of a supreme being.

              As the animals we are, we will keep on killing each other until the end of our existance as a species. As a species, we are ignorant. The truth and knowledge is all around us but we cannot see the forest for the trees. Well, maybe we intentionally wear blinders in life.


              Can woman entertain the idea of a higher being too, or is it just "man"????

              As for being ignorant, you cannot make a broad statement like that. Not everyone is killing. Some are enlightened.

              Thanks for your original post hatesclothes. That is very interesting. It is interesting what people have done in the name of God isn't it.

              Comment


              • #8
                quote:
                Originally posted by Rabid_Clam:
                The only thing that seperates man from animals is that man can entertain the concept of a supreme being.

                As the animals we are, we will keep on killing each other until the end of our existance as a species. As a species, we are ignorant. The truth and knowledge is all around us but we cannot see the forest for the trees. Well, maybe we intentionally wear blinders in life.



                Whenever I go out on a walk and see the squirrels ripping the legs off frogs for purely sadistic pleasure they get out of it, the birds gleefully massacring thousands squirrels for merely being in the same forest, the deer polluting streams for temporary material gain without a care for other animals or future generations, and the bears who go on wild killing sprees for no apparent reason, I think to myself how lucky mankind is blessed with the knowledge of Supreme Being. How fortunate we are that we do not behave like the animals.

                Comment


                • #9
                  quote:
                  Can woman entertain the idea of a higher being too, or is it just "man"????


                  No, women cannot "entertain" the idea, they must accept it without question in gratious humility. Just like they graciously submit to their owner's husband's authority.

                  - see, fundamentalist Southern Baptists, or fundamentalist Mormoms aren't so different from fundamentalist Islam. It's all about power and ownership.

                  -Mark

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    quote:
                    Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
                    quote:
                    Can woman entertain the idea of a higher being too, or is it just "man"????


                    No, women cannot "entertain" the idea, they must accept it without question in gratious humility. Just like they graciously submit to their owner's husband's authority.

                    - see, fundamentalist Southern Baptists, or fundamentalist Mormoms aren't so different from fundamentalist Islam. It's all about power and ownership.

                    -Mark


                    Well, I am a REALLY BIG sinner. I don't submit so easily.

                    It is all about power and ownership and don't forget a certain amount of brainwashing to squash the individual's inherent tendency towards free will!

                    Comment

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